From East to West

[Mskied]

Greetings.  I may be in the wrong place, but from the looks of the posts here, there is a lot of new ground for me to travel along thank you to the posters that placed their thoughts and experiences here for us.

 

Other than names for the same experience on most levels, Im not certain what makes East differ from West, other than perhaps in the West witchcraft is more of an acceptable thing, whereas in the East, it would appear that occult workings are meant for tranquility, rather than personal desires.  One thing I can say is that there is a Jewish House which is inbetween the two, IMO.  I have been impacted by all three.

 

I grew up influenced by the Christian (Catholic) Church, like a lot of people, but strayed around 12 years old- didn't get confirmed.  I was a believer in the teachings, but disagreed that I had to be so orthodox.  Around 21 years of age my "New Age-ish" uncle sent me a book on meditation, which I regrettably gave away.  I regret it because I experienced alignment and awakening of my Chakras from one of their lessons, and Im curious now where this book was formed out of.  All I recall was a simple lesson on how to meditate and what to do when you encounter the varied states of awareness.  There was one word to chant as a mantra with different definitions and Im not sure if its Eastern but I know it is Egyptian and Jewish- Amen, variously pronounced to have different intentions attached for the working.  I chose one of the pronunciations and went into my first meditative state and cleared my mind wide enough that all of my Chakras lit up and pulsed in sequence from below to above.  After this, I no longer had a normal headache, though in the last 20 years have had much happening in my mind and body (more on that in a sec).

 

So that was my initial contact with the East, though I did not know about it.  I looked for what these words and all I could come up with at the time was that it was from some other planet (New Age material).  This experience did not lead me to any of the religions.  Though it did send me on a mystical adventure.  My body was now sensitive to other energies, mostly from the presence of other people.

 

I found a few interesting books on the subtle mind and thought enough about magick that I would say I had a magickal view, but it was very spiritual and always about Good Will.  I was an artist, and I practiced a meditative form of abstract expressionism which is something like zen meditations and was contacted when I was 28 by a spirit that sent a symbol to me.  This followed by a call to the Heavens in which a God spoke in a strange language.  The voice of this God was beyond human, it is too bad that it was not speaking in English, for I did not know what occurred that day or since, only that I wound up initiating myself into Kabbalah-Qabbalah.  When I entered the Abyss, I was tortured for months before asking why this was happening, and I was given the word of the Aeon according to Aliester Crowley.  This led me to actually studying his Magick, and all the rest of the Western books I could find.  I say that I was initiated into Jewish mysticism because when I entered the Abyss I was greeted by an angel of Chesed and sent to a being on a throne that told me its name or title.  

 

That is my short version of my history.  A lot has happened to me since then but Ill save that for later.

[Fa Xin]

Hello, mskied, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Hello mskied,

 

Welcome and nice to have you.  Looking forward to more of your posts.  Exploring the Western traditions of Christianity and Judaism is fun and you may notice similarities to the East too.

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[thelerner]

Its interesting hearing about people jumping in to another esoteric cultural practice and going so full force.  I'm Jewish and do simple Kabbalah, Rawn Clarks YHVH canticle chanting which is rightly considered more Hermetic then Jewish, and Abulafiah's Kabbalah  again more chanting then what most would consider Kabbalic practice.  Course Kabbalah branches go from Egyptian to Christian.

 

I remember going to a friend Michael Chang and asking what he was doing this weekend.  He said "I'm going to my wife to Temple, it Chag something something, aren't you?'  I told him 'No, the Shin Shin Toitsu Ki Aikido is having the Winter Misogi weekend with hardcore Shinto chanting using the iron bells, I'm heading there.'  We paused because it felt so ironic.

 

I don't think I'll ever see or talk to angels of Chesed or the like, but ce la vi, and one never knows, or should close one's mind.  

Edited July 30, 2019 by thelerner

[Mskied]

Thanks for the reply.  My journey is sort of tragic.  Some God wanted to get their point across- that this stuff works in ways that I was ignorant of.  I don't have a practice.  I wish I could, but the Qliphot have taken over my ability to alter my consciousness on my own, so I am at their mercy what I feel.  Ive fought for my knowledge though, and now (lately) they have backed off.  Many trips, many, many trips to the hospital later, and I look around and recognize that everyone wants to be a guru.  What are we trying to discover, I wonder?  What is each persons personal goal for their lives?  So many questions need to be answered, in my opinion, before choosing a master or a system.  I actually feel blessed, because I never had one.  Cursed, because now that I am free, I see a lot of ignorance, and confusion, and suffering, and personal isolation.

[thelerner]

to me, job 1, is creating a livable life.  not the mysteries of the universe or any profound truths, but creating a good life.  afterwards tackling the profundities and mysteries one by one, knowing that i'll probably never know but the questions are fascinating.

[Mskied]

Ive taken a few weeks now to sit silently, to allow my demons to fade, to gather my thoughts and reassess.  Ive read that Kabalah will help you make your word and Will reality, and I realized long ago that this is only to me; for every thought and idea had to be played out by me, and it was very real, to me.  This led to schizophrenia, and it is not uncommon for rabbis to go insane.  Ive had to beg for an end to this to the God that started it, because I could not keep track of all that was happening.  I had to prove that I have learned and grown, and this took 20 years of trial, fail, and success.  Apparently I have proven that I have, because they relented.  In this case then, I would say that I am out of the Abyss of the GD, and have destroyed my ego sufficiently in the cup of Babylon.  

 

So where do I stand now?  Now I am more aware of the workings of civilization.  I am acutely aware of our ignorance from a certain perspective, and very aware that all truth is true to the observer.  I hold on to my truth, however, because I refuse to give in that no truth is more important than the other.  That is because I see something important, which is; we are a community that relies upon one another to succeed, and that individual truth cannot sustain a whole.  While I admit that individual truth will lead the changes, and that the individually strong will set the pace, as of today, we are still a co-operative whole.  This may change when human life changes the terms of itself.

 

I hesitate to go back to magick work, for I have suffered greatly at my own hands, and hesitate to interfere with others Will, though I think I might be a pretty strong force for this, should it have any real truth to it.

 

I am astounded that after 20 years, I have only learned a handful of things- potent things, but still, not eloquent enough to produce a massive body of knowledge that can contain the sea in a cup.  Still working on that one.

[thelerner]

On 8/7/2019 at 6:08 AM, Mskied said:

Ive taken a few weeks now to sit silently, to allow my demons to fade, to gather my thoughts and reassess.  Ive read that Kabalah will help you make your word and Will reality,

 

So where do I stand now?  Now I am more aware of the workings of civilization.  I am acutely aware of our ignorance from a certain perspective, and very aware that all truth is true to the observer.  I hold on to my truth, however, because I refuse to give in that no truth is more important than the other.  ..

 

I hesitate to go back to magick work, for I have suffered greatly at my own hands, and hesitate to interfere with others Will, though I think I might be a pretty strong force for this, should it have any real truth to it.

 

I am astounded that after 20 years, I have only learned a handful of things- potent things, but still, not eloquent enough to produce a massive body of knowledge that can contain the sea in a cup.  Still working on that one.

Good you're slowing down.  Just sitting, grounding.  Demons unfed, fade.  Consider letting go of great truths and work on small simple acts. 

 

The philosophy of Tikkun Olam, states the world is broken and its our job to repair it.   A rabbi going deeper said, our job isn't to repair the whole world, we're not so powerful, but we are responsible for repairing the parts of the world that touch us.  Repairing, making better- ourselves, our family, friends, our community.  That's quite a bit of work for a lifetime.   

Edited September 5, 2019 by thelerner

[Mskied]

Thank you.  Upon my initiation, I attempted to embrace the whole world.  Prior to that, I did indeed work on just the world around me, but when the God spoke and the symbol appeared, I became obsessive and over ambitious- overestimated my strength and my power.  I speculate on just what occurred.  I have thought many things that became real, I have witnessed on the astral many, many things and I have seen reality bend for me.  I presume that my body was used as a medium.  I don't put 100% stock in this because Im not certain how that would work or why it would need to be done that way, but sacrificial avatars are not unheard of.  Based on what Ive seen, I suspect that I did indeed become super connected, but kept somewhat protected from knowing what was happening.  There was no contract or anything, I simply made a request, got an answer, and made the sacrifice.  

 

Today I revisited some old material and things fell into place.  I didn't realize back then that I was naturally progressing in yogi, but after reading about them, I recognize that I was actually pretty practiced in a lot of things.  Combined with my ability to self actualize a world view that kept my mind pure, I was a prime target for initiation.  Don't get me wrong, I did read a little, but not enough to be a student.  I was an artist, a painter and a sculptor, and my method was abstract expressionism, so I began from the base and molded the form to make a statement.  I didn't work with realism much, and it was all organic.  

 

I have since been convinced that when I ask questions I get answers.  This too is not uncommon, but knowing when it is legitimate leaves people with the want to not put any faith into it.  I still don't know, but I have refined a process that provides a reaction that I listen to.  More than not, it is accurate.  Still, I think it is more of a contemplative method of question and answer, and the God relies on you to find your good judgement.  There have been over a dozen times that I have been given direct messages that I know are not me, but to think that a genie is waiting to answer me is pretty vain.  Just how important am I, or is anyone?  That's hard to say, and I like to think we all are, but I know we don't all try.  Its not like Ive gotten winning lotto numbers, although I have been told what to bet on a few times (and it worked).

 

I could give you a list of things I predicted but that just sounds vain.  Suffice to say that I think that even from our small bedrooms we can do large things.  

 

I am indeed slowing down, it feels good.  Boring, but good.  There was an awful lot of mental pain involved with this process.  I feel safe to say that we are connected to God internally, but that God is external, and can enter and leave at will.  The inner world and our ability on the outer is what we inherit, and God has access to all that and more.  I wonder if one day humanity can move beyond the astral and into the wide sky itself, or to another planet, or even a plane of existence that doesn't rely on the human body.  The human body is  an infinite span of realities that overlap and can also be individually designed.  As far as an explanation from physics, I know that it starts with our consciousness and ends...?  IDK where.  potentially into the fabric of matter, but I doubt that we become any more external than our limbs.  

[Mskied]

In the past 20 years I have been actively contemplating and examining occult documents, and this week I once again repurchased an occult library, many books I had already examined, but did not comprehend, because I was looking for specific indicators to lead me to study based upon what I had experienced, which is nearly impossible coming from the place I entered initiation from.  The things I can say for certain are:

 

1. I am an adept exempt, having been brought directly into the presence of Chokma utilizing some of the keys that are available.

 

This sounds pretentious, and I don't often give myself a label or claim superior experiences or knowledge, but as these are the defining structures of attainment, I have to label myself in order to explain and share.  I know it was past the veils, because as I now re-read some of this material, it fits in exactly with what occurred.  

 

2.  I did indeed do the work prior to this grade.

 

I mentioned that I had my own path of working, and its true; I had conquered my philosophy and knew my Will.

 

3.  I did indeed sacrifice and taken on the role of suffering.

 

Now here it gets tricky, because I do not know all of what I encountered.  As I said, this could have been all about me and me alone, or it could be that my body was used as some sort of channel or gate.  I know for certain, now that I have had a month of calm, that other entities have visited me for a long while now.  I know how this works, the mind- the soul, and the thoughts of incarnate and disincarnate beings.  I have my own language for it though, and am still piecing together a way to explain using the language of the students and disciples.  I am not an "Adept" or a practitioner yet, because I did not need to be, but my hope is that one day I will attain a knowledgeable translation to share my insight.

 

4.  I took the reverse path after having traversed on my own course.

 

The grade of sacrifice entails a re-examination of your process and the world in order to organize and validate action, so as to explain the cause/effect of choice and action done in the world.  To conquer this, one has to immerse themselves entirely into the Abyss and challenge Chaos Himself, not an easy task.  When I defeated Chaos, I was able to explain cause/effect.  One of the keys to defeating Chaos is this:

 

Kindness is the key to the mysteries.

The absence of kindness is Chaos.

Chaos begets confusion.

Confusion begets ignorance.

Ignorance begets negative thought and action.

 

This is my formula for illuminating anyone in action and explanation of action.  Were we to take action and kindly explain ourselves, and that action being kind, then there would be no conundrum from the view of the other, but when these actions we take are not in line with kindness, we call them Evil.

 

There is much more that goes into defining ones self than kindness, and sometimes kindness is not enough to defend from non-kindness, and when we take aggressive action against aggressive action, we beget more ignorance and aggressive action, which can only help to promote more Chaos.  That is why kindness is the ultimate lesson from spiritually enlightened mystics.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Mskied

[Mskied]

Kether will necessarily always be unknown, until (if) the day comes that we reach that point, but as Kether is potential, far off and coming down, we can never be certain that we have reached Kethers door.  As Kether is the impetus to discovering Binah, we imagine that some of what comes from Kether is found in Binah, and when Binah is developed, we know something of Kether.  This is true, because when the initiate has their vision of Chokmah, they discover that God is All.  All potential and possibility comes from Kether, and so what lies in Kether?  Is it like the Greek Chaos?  Is there an absolute within Kether, or is it simply potential?  The answer is yes, there are absolutes and potentials in  Kether, and it is like Kaos, but it is not disorderly, for everything has its rhyme and reason, and knows itself.  Will Kether ever be static?  I doubt it, for as the manifest aspects and particles emit, new patterns and particles come into play and they all exchange and create.  The actual throne of Kether is probably not within our reach, but we can embrace the All by contemplating the potential of possibility. 

[Mskied]

I came to realize tonight that the Tree of Life could actually be projected in a straight line.  I think that it is revealed in a geometric shape to protect the need to preserve the evolution of geometry from monism, as well as the idea that as we contemplate, we do not necessarily approach from a linear point of view.  As a system, it is quite linear, but as you climb into the system, there are so many parts to the whole, that you find yourself running up and down the tree, and when you recognize in your own contemplation how you process thought, it does indeed go from corner to corner.  Still I think the goal is to form into one strong line of Will, and so prior to initiation, a candidate probably climbs without knowing, finds their Will and becomes linear, and upon initiation at a later age, deconstructs that linear path and forces it into the shape of the tree, with the final outcome once again being a straight line.  

 

The straight line that I am referring to works like this:

 

Kether is a far off point, which is impossible to see without initiation, but we strive for it anyway- an idea that we chase; the infinite potential.  When we initiate, we meet the extension of the point and learn that it is not a static spot, but a line extending towards us.  This is the ray of power that sends information and energy to the adept.  Following this line, it moves from Chokmah to binah and stimulates our abstract concepts of form- this is Platos world of Good/formal world.  This line keeps extending, and as extends itself down into the body of a person it reaches to Chesed, which is our sphere of molding entire vision from abstract to elaborate concept.  This line keeps extending, reaching our powers of ability, emotion, knowledge and subconscious until it manifests itself in our waking reality on Malkuth.  To climb this tree, or follow this line, we imagine an ideal- the total potential, or even one form of Good- to idealize and contemplate, integrating it into our ability to conceive of a larger whole scene.  

 

I think one of the keynotes of the Qabalah is that we are not a linear plane of reality, and the various stages of human perception create a vast and elaborate geometric shape of movement along a chain of motion, another reason that the tree is not one straight line- we want people to know that there is a vast network of different levels of consciousness at work in society.  When one is able to visualize the nuanced pathworking of the variety of stages of development in the peoples of the nations, one can recognize the benevolence that is the Will of God from Chesed, for it develops within us the tolerance that we tout today as so necessary in so large a world.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Mskied

[Mskied]

God is life, for without life there is no knowing god.  God is the power to do, and the want to Love, and when you approach the Divine, know this.

[Mskied]

Here is my personal take on the beatitudes:

 

Blessed are the intelligent and curious, for they will come to know.

Blessed are the lawful and the kind, for they already know.

Blessed are the creative and the talented, for God loves to see what we can create.

Blessed are the humble, for they will come to know God.

[Mskied]

First I want to say to those that are Qabalists:  Dion Fortune is a Kabbalist, not of the Hermetic, of the Jew.  You can witness this when she explains the tree she is trained on in her dissertation of Malkuth.  I suspect the key difference in these trees is that the Qabalist is able to pass over devotion, which begins in Yesod, in order to begin their climb.

 

Next I want to mention that I said the tree is actually a line pulled apart and put into a symbol, which I suspect is because of the keys to math and geometry, but when all is said and done, the climbing is actually very linear.

 

Kether is the One, and within the one is the many, and as the many are separated by the diagram of the tree, you unfold it and then refold it, returning to the one.  When a person experiences Initiation, they are initiated on all four levels at the same time, and it is misleading to think that the one Sephiroth leads to another- for they are all the same, until dissected.  Therefor when you initiate, you are immediately granted initiation onto all Sephiroth, not one to the next, though as a disciple "climbing", you will need to do as is explained.  Suffice to say that it is actually all one, and is linear, and after the initiate unpacks, they pack up again, and return to the world from hermitage.  This is the crossing of the Abyss.  You see this in the way that form and force are shown to alternate, Daath is Yesod, Kether is Chokma and all the rest, but the apprehension of idea and form are separate in the climb and descent.  You do both at the same time as an initiate, and eventually you realize that it is all "below", and yet, God is above, for there is no other tree than God, all else is root, roots being branches below.  Therefor, when you initiate, and I initiated into Thelema, you enter the Abyss as a sacrificial act- essentially being the state of confusion with forced contemplation, and when you complete your evaluation, you cross and reform into the One, which is a son or daughter of God, as you always were, except you return with the gold you sought.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Mskied

[Jadespear]

...sounds like you may find the writings of William Mistele interesting... he refers to great beings and the like all the time.  from what I can gather by reading occult and magic books is that there are certain entities that basically control or influence every single aspect of life itself.

[Mskied]

Funny, I was just going to post how this works.

 

There are indeed ascended beings that govern us.  They seek and observe.  To initiate into the Kabbalah/Qabalah is to integrate yourself deeply into the process of our human species, AKA: The Tre of Life.  They call it the "Great Work" and it is our opportunity to take the reigns of humanity on this planet and steer it, or influence it, or enlighten it- for each initiate/adept is a myth, like the Gods that brought us gifts:  they examine and investigate, and reveal to the watchers new ideas and information that they send down into the people they govern.  This is God- which is us, and All, and it is Gods slow revelation and churning of the flame.  As I said, I have witnessed my thoughts become action in the world, and I wont go into detail, but suffice it to say that what you are observing they are observing, and they are always willing to listen and employ your contributions.

[Mskied]

That invisible source of things, which I call Tao, Eather, Astral Light, Qi- is actually ignorance.  It is the supposed objective thing that we manipulate through subjective experience.  In the beginning of life, it is vast, and as we walk through our training, it becomes smaller- which essentially means that it is less objective and more subjective- coming under our control.  When you consider that God is objective to my subjective knowledge, but that to God, I am subjective, you realize that the closer to Godhead we become, the less objective things are.  Just how far can we go in a land of free will?  One of the trials of the Magus is to decide if they are the only living, sentient and free willed thing in creation.  This is a difficult obstacle, for the Magister grade bestows visions and realities that tell this to be true.  

[Mskied]

In fact, when this type of thing occurs, and should one take seriously what is written about it, one might think that they are a living dead thing, or dead to the world from whence they came, and now in a world designed just for them; to learn and explore, because this is indeed a call to work and learning.  It is so unreal, that it would seem there is no other explanation, but of course, one cannot denounce the world for what it is, for even if it were made for the initiate, it still has a governing presence that thwarts your whims.

[Mskied]

Its sort of an initiation into examining life as purgatory, time to work on your inadequacies.

[Mskied]

In this life we use too many words.  There is only one word that needs to be contemplated, and that word is LOVE

 

Follow me on facebook:  Markus Malarkus

[Mskied]

It is my opinion that the adepts main concerns should be:

 

The imminent need for Kindness, Law, and Justice.  

 

Kindness because that which is unfair or aggressive will cause confusion and retaliation, not to mention emotional harm.  Law because without Law, there is no measure of right and wrong on which Kindness will hang, and Justice because we have to defend that Law and protect the measure of kindness.

 

This is Chesed and Gevurah at their peak, and it is all the other particles of life that go into right action.

 

Now, there is the Law as is in your land, and the Adept needs to decide if this Law is working in favor of their understanding of the fundamentals that hold society together.  Should this not be the case, the Adept will see the failures in the society around them, which is usually what initiates the act of sacrifice from the devotional Adept.  Motives will vary, and I only have my own experience, but study of the usual outlets of occult and mysticism reveal that these are the formal issues that need to be considered prior to any real contact.  All other Magick would be training the initiate to recognize these fundamentals.  Personal desires are how most people begin their magickal journey, and we are teased with the knowledge of hidden power in intention and want, but these things never fully realize a reliable method.  I believe that we get some results from this avenue to gently show us that there is indeed hidden power.  Also, it is not unreasonable that our intention is in line with the intention of the ascended Masters, and it is also possible that we should be rewarded for just actions.  The ascended Masters may also be encouraging the initiate to do something that meets their desires to be made manifest in our reality.

 

In my experience, the initiate takes on the rite of power and devours themselves, essentially killing themselves (as they are also slain) in an attempt to discover the keys to bring about their Will.  This can be a short process, or an incredibly difficult one, depending upon the initiates motive and endurance.  If it is a large scale attempt, and the initiate is under informed, it could take decades to complete this rite.

[Mskied]

If the initiate is a God fearing person, and not yet enlightened on the finer aspects of Free Will and choice, when they hear the words "Everything happens for a reason" they enter a mystical state of adoration for the infinite power of the Divine in the ways of life of the creation.  This leads to curiosity, which leads to examination and contemplation, always believing that with Creator, anything is possible.  This is a vulnerability in initiation, because this line of thinking has not yet resolved the acts of Chaos.  It is also a gift, for the words still hold true- Creator, and the Masters, have powers that we are unaware of.

 

When an initiate achieves adepthood, they recognize the difference between actions of Creator and actions of Free Will.  We will never fully know the actions of Creator, but the Adept will have realized enough from their inner journey to see that all things are under their providence.  

 

The dilemma that I mention of Chaos is that all things happen for a reason, and that reason is usually because someone or some thing initiated it, and all that remains is to discover the source and reason, and observe the result to know the cause and effect of the chain of actions, started by Creator or not.  More than likely, at least on the surface, these are choices made by incarnated beings or material substance, though what set it in motion is probably Creator.  Human beings do have a participation in these affairs.

[Mskied]

The Etheric or Astral Body is made up of the body itself, in co-operation with the mind and all the parts therein- it is the Will of the magician, and it is their rod and sword.  We can literally "Will" certain actions.  These things are witnessed by charisma and influence.  It is the parry and thrust of our intentions, and when a ceremonial magician takes certain grades, they rise in power of using this force.  When an initiate takes the rite of sacrifice, their Will is extended as far as they send it, and they begin to move and shape larger and larger, and smaller and smaller particles of reality, thereby able to move whole continents of people in spirit.

[Mskied]

As the initiate travels the Cosmos both outward and inward, they learn the keys to such things as physics, astronomy, psychology, philosophy, mathematics, chemistry and geometry.  All of these pieces are united in their Will, and their knowledge is vast, but until they have finished their journey, their power and control is not in their hands.  When it is done, the magician recedes to normalcy, with only a small portion of their power, but with vast knowledge- words and actions being more powerful in most cases than Will.

[Mskied]

I was thinking about Magick, in the form of "Spell casting"- using my Will in any way possible to affect yours.

 

I went through a phase of believing what is said, that it is forbidden- black magick.  But now I know that it is no different than using words face to face, or on paper, and actions.  LET THERE BE SPELLCARFT!