No more right-wing bullshit.

[wandelaar]

@ Sean

 

We will have to see how things develop. I hope that I'm proven wrong, and that the main focus here will return to Taoism and spirituality. You are right, it's too early to say at this point. We'll see.

 

As to ideological debates, I've had enough of them. I made my point, and you made yours.

Edited August 5, 2019 by wandelaar

[flowing hands]

This post is not to say that I'm coming back to post again, but I have been following this thread. The main reason why I left posting is because the forum is littered with Christians, trying to be interested in Dao and influences others. They are an insidious lot and will do anything to get people to follow their path. They really have never read the writings of any Dao Sages and if they do they put it in Christian terms. There is also the right wingers who criticize others and deny many social, environmental and political crimes that are going on around the world in the name of pursuing great wealth. Some whom were mods and used their position to squash others who they didn't like. I said along time ago that I was unhappy being here and wanted to leave but was encouraged by others to stick it out, until I really had enough.

 

Lets put the record straight; if you are not a Socialist you cannot be a Daoist. Daoists are primarily concerned with the other life and not themselves. If you read the DDJ. Li Erh puts it quite plainly; you cannot improve yourself if you are only thinking of yourself.

 

I also think that the forum should have categories for Dao practices (magic, ritual, self cultivation etc.Immortals) and styles of martial arts, qi gong and TCM. There are probably 2000 different styles of Chinese martial art. I never see anything posted other than Tai Ji Quan. I said the forum needs to change and I am really glad Sean has made a bold move to do so.

 

Good luck with it all.

[idquest]

4 hours ago, flowing hands said:

This post is not to say that I'm coming back to post again, but I have been following this thread. The main reason why I left posting is because the forum is littered with Christians, trying to be interested in Dao and influences others. They are an insidious lot and will do anything to get people to follow their path. They really have never read the writings of any Dao Sages and if they do they put it in Christian terms. There is also the right wingers who criticize others and deny many social, environmental and political crimes that are going on around the world in the name of pursuing great wealth. Some whom were mods and used their position to squash others who they didn't like. I said along time ago that I was unhappy being here and wanted to leave but was encouraged by others to stick it out, until I really had enough.

 

Lets put the record straight; if you are not a Socialist you cannot be a Daoist. Daoists are primarily concerned with the other life and not themselves. If you read the DDJ. Li Erh puts it quite plainly; you cannot improve yourself if you are only thinking of yourself.

 

I also think that the forum should have categories for Dao practices (magic, ritual, self cultivation etc.Immortals) and styles of martial arts, qi gong and TCM. There are probably 2000 different styles of Chinese martial art. I never see anything posted other than Tai Ji Quan. I said the forum needs to change and I am really glad Sean has made a bold move to do so.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

In response to the highlighted section, this is not entirely true. There is an ongoing thread about LiuHeBaFa right now, for example. Also, let's not forget that Shaun does not hire somebody to post on specific topics. It is us, membership, who make the posts. Why don't you start with topics you'd like to see the most and maintain them to your liking? The forum is as good as its membership is, simple.

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, idquest said:

 

In response to the highlighted section, this is not entirely true. There is an ongoing thread about LiuHeBaFa right now, for example. Also, let's not forget that Shaun does not hire somebody to post on specific topics. It is us, membership, who make the posts. Why don't you start with topics you'd like to see the most and maintain them to your liking? The forum is as good as its membership is, simple.

 

The quality of discussion is a different issue altogether from the topic itself. Besides the mention earlier of a couple of disgraced "teachers" (which I did not mention because the posters were not yet banned), it was mainly the OP asking for free teachings in Liuhebafa and then refuting the statements of people who actually do the style telling him that he can't learn from a DVD or act like the things we were saying as experienced students (and a teacher myself by next year) was not true. 

 

So if it's as good as its membership, there's a lot missing there then because that's like saying laborers are lazy without mentioning that the conditions of the workplace are bad, such as a sweatshop or that the laborers are dumb without saying that their access to education is limited or non-existent, and omitting that the managers themselves don't know what they're doing wrong, let alone don't even know what they're doing. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@ Sean

 

We will have to see how things develop. I hope that I'm proven wrong, and that the main focus here will return to Taoism and spirituality. You are right, it's too early to say at this point. We'll see.

 

As to ideological debates, I've had enough of them. I made my point, and you made yours.

 

if you see scales out of balance, and then take a little off one side, there is bound to be a bit of a swing back the other way, at first  , before the balance is achieved

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

This post is not to say that I'm coming back to post again,

 

 

 

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

 

 

but I have been following this thread. The main reason why I left posting is because the forum is littered with Christians, trying to be interested in Dao and influences others. They are an insidious lot and will do anything to get people to follow their path. They really have never read the writings of any Dao Sages and if they do they put it in Christian terms.

 

 

I never noticed that, I did see some Christian based threads , but I didnt get involved with their Christian philosophy, it seems fundamentally flawed.

 

 

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 There is also the right wingers who criticize others and deny many social, environmental and political crimes that are going on around the world in the name of pursuing great wealth. Some whom were mods and used their position to squash others who they didn't like. I said along time ago that I was unhappy being here and wanted to leave but was encouraged by others to stick it out, until I really had enough.

 

Lets put the record straight; if you are not a Socialist you cannot be a Daoist. Daoists are primarily concerned with the other life and not themselves. If you read the DDJ. Li Erh puts it quite plainly; you cannot improve yourself if you are only thinking of yourself.

 

Tome, that sounds like a great Socialist motto .

 

 

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

I also think that the forum should have categories for Dao practices (magic, ritual, self cultivation etc.Immortals) and styles of martial arts, qi gong and TCM. There are probably 2000 different styles of Chinese martial art. I never see anything posted other than Tai Ji Quan.

 

This is the main reason I responded to your post.  We must really move in different circle here.  I have made HEAPS of posts about martial arts other than tai chi .   HEAPS !   and peeps talked with me about it .

 

 

 

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

I said the forum needs to change and I am really glad Sean has made a bold move to do so.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

 

IMO keep outa political and Christian threads  and cast your net further here

 

Enjoy the new.

[flowing hands]

My point, which is quite simple, if you have a proper section on a particular subject like martial art, then no one can miss it!!! I never saw any posts about other martial arts, they must have been well hidden.

 

I kept well out of the Christian threads and the political threads, but they made impacts on other threads that I may have been on. For example the thread on Climate change was taken over by the right wing Trumpsters and virtually no one answered my original post!

[Miffymog]

Yes, Jesus did clear the religious square of dealers and traders, but if that is the main point one takes away from the New Testament, then every other line has been ignored.

 

He reduced the whole bible to two sentences

1 - Love god (with all your heart, soul, body and mind)

2 - And treat others how you would like to be treated.

 

The second point is a universal truth across not just religions, but also humanity. What is more, you do this in the face persecution. You remove your own failings before you try to improve some one else. You persevere with helping those you dislike.

 

There is good are bad in everyone - this fundamental concept has been ignored here - on a spiritual website of all places.

 

It is a simple fact - the majority of threads were not dominated by right wing American politics before the purge.

 

[flowing hands]

3 hours ago, Miffymog said:

Yes, Jesus did clear the religious square of dealers and traders, but if that is the main point one takes away from the New Testament, then every other line has been ignored.

 

He reduced the whole bible to two sentences

1 - Love god (with all your heart, soul, body and mind)

2 - And treat others how you would like to be treated.

 

The second point is a universal truth across not just religions, but also humanity. What is more, you do this in the face persecution. You remove your own failings before you try to improve some one else. You persevere with helping those you dislike.

 

There is good are bad in everyone - this fundamental concept has been ignored here - on a spiritual website of all places.

 

It is a simple fact - the majority of threads were not dominated by right wing American politics before the purge.

 

 

Personally, if I were Sean I would ban all Christians, Muslims and any other religion and keep the forum to Daoism. In that way people who come here who are genuinely interested in Daoism, will find proper information and help along their path. In that way we would have a proper forum and one might attract more genuine cultivators. It astounded me that a former mod here, after going through their posts on this site and another (which is open to the public) did not post one comment on any Daoist writings. 

There is something wrong when a member/mod doesn't even join in with the fundamental teachings of Daoism.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, flowing hands said:

 

Personally, if I were Sean I would ban all Christians, Muslims and any other religion and keep the forum to Daoism. In that way people who come here who are genuinely interested in Daoism, will find proper information and help along their path. In that way we would have a proper forum and one might attract more genuine cultivators. It astounded me that a former mod here, after going through their posts on this site and another (which is open to the public) did not post one comment on any Daoist writings. 

There is something wrong when a member/mod doesn't even join in with the fundamental teachings of Daoism.

 

 

What?  No Rumi or St. John of the Cross????  

[johndoe2012]

.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by johndoe2012

[Walker]

14 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Personally, if I were Sean I would ban all Christians, Muslims and any other religion and keep the forum to Daoism. In that way people who come here who are genuinely interested in Daoism, will find proper information and help along their path. In that way we would have a proper forum and one might attract more genuine cultivators.

 

I don't think that is a very good idea at all. The logic is skewed, too. People of any and all religions and no religion at all can be "genuinely interested in Daoism." I am aware of your aversion to people who blend Christian and Daoist ideas and practice, but I'm afraid that sort of thing has been going on since the days of the Silk Road and will certainly continue unabated for as long as Christianity and Daoism both exist... probably to many people's benefit, too.

[wandelaar]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

if you see scales out of balance, and then take a little off one side, there is bound to be a bit of a swing back the other way, at first  , before the balance is achieved

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

Could be that that is what we are seeing now. Time will tell...

[wandelaar]

Keeping the forum strictly Taoist would lead to a fundamentalist and sectarian forum. Not my cup of tea! Besides - who is going to separate the true Taoists from the false? I hope this suggestion of flowing hands will be ignored.

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

if you see scales out of balance, and then take a little off one side, there is bound to be a bit of a swing back the other way, at first  , before the balance is achieved

That would be a minor miracle considering the owner is sitting on one side of the scales and hitting it with a pick axe !!!

[C T]

Some confusion noted when one enthusiastically proclaims Taoism to be functionally socialistic and then some.... only to be rambunctiously followed by extreme suggestions to keep out the 'strays'. wth 

 

Apparently this one also claimed that a true Daoist is only concerned with others' welfare and put others before themselves. Discrepancy much?? 

Edited August 6, 2019 by C T

[ilumairen]

7 minutes ago, rideforever said:

That would be a minor miracle considering the owner is sitting on one side of the scales and hitting it with a pick axe !!!

 

Maybe he'll manage to break the damn scale, and then we could just get on with things. 

[Jeff]

19 minutes ago, C T said:

Some confusion noted when one enthusiastically proclaims Taoism to be functionally socialistic and then some.... only to be rambunctiously followed by extreme suggestions to keep out the 'strays'. wth 

 

Apparently this one also claimed that a true Daoist is only concerned with others' welfare and put others before themselves. Discrepancy much?? 

 

The Tao Te Ching clearly states your point...

 

Chapter 27

 

A good traveler has no fixed plans
and is not intent upon arriving.
A good artist lets his intuition
lead him wherever it wants.
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts
and keeps his mind open to what is.

Thus the Master is available to all people
and doesn't reject anyone.
He is ready to use all situations
and doesn't waste anything.
This is called embodying the light.

What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.

 

 

[Apech]

9 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

The Tao Te Ching clearly states your point...

 

Chapter 27

 

A good traveler has no fixed plans
and is not intent upon arriving.
A good artist lets his intuition
lead him wherever it wants.
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts
and keeps his mind open to what is.

Thus the Master is available to all people
and doesn't reject anyone.
He is ready to use all situations
and doesn't waste anything.
This is called embodying the light.

What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.

 

 

 

 

Have we forgotten about the people being straw dogs ... and feed their stomachs and empty their heads ... etc?

[sean]

Not to worry, this forum will always remain nonsectarian.

 

Personally, I deeply enjoy teachings across religious traditions, including Christianity and Islam. 🥰

 

Sean

 

[ralis]

One of the most egregious problems on the right wing Trump threads was referencing to 4chan, 8chan, as well as QAnon. There were two members that referred to the above quite often. Given recent developments, most everyone here should understand the ramifications of allowing hate groups to infiltrate this site and the online community, in general. 

[C T]

24 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

The Tao Te Ching clearly states your point...

 

Chapter 27

 

A good traveler has no fixed plans
and is not intent upon arriving.
A good artist lets his intuition
lead him wherever it wants.
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts
and keeps his mind open to what is.

Thus the Master is available to all people
and doesn't reject anyone.
He is ready to use all situations
and doesn't waste anything.
This is called embodying the light.

What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.

 

 

 

Sometimes confusion reigns in people who reject the very thing they think guides their intentions. 

When this begins to affect the equilibrium of a society or group, then corrective measures are taken. 

That usually brings forth a master's sensibilities and wisdom. 

Chaos does have its merit at times. 

 

 

 

[OldDog]

I think trying to make this site an exclusive Daoist forum is probably not the right way to go.

 

Exclusivism is part of the problem. It means rejecting other input. True other input may not be consistent with teachings from the time of Laozi ... But this is not the time of Laozi. Daoism has to find its place in the modern world. Maintaining a grounding in the original teachings is important but trying to avoid interaction with other belief systems is unavoidable. Daoism has to stand on its own where ever it finds itself.

 

I often think of the development of Buddhism, as it migrated out of South Asia north and east, and transformed into forms that suited the cultures and times it found itself. I think this has to happen with Daoism, if it is to remain viable.

 

It's not so much about what you believe as it is how you believe.

 

Just mho.

 

[OldDog]

Let's take a little different reading on Ch 27.

 

A good numer leaves no track.

A good speech leaves no flaws for attack.

A good reckoner makes use of no counters.

A well-shut door makes use of no bolts, And yet cannot be opened.
A well-tied knot makes use of no rope, And yet cannot be untied.

 

Therefore the Sage is good at helping men;

For that reason there is no rejected (useless) person.
He is good at saving things;

For that reason there is nothing rejected.

This is called stealing the Light.

Therefore the good man is the Teacher of the bad.

And the bad man is the lesson of the good.

 

He who neither values his teacher,

Nor loves the lesson,
Is one gone far astray,

Though he be learned.

Such is the subtle secret.

 

- trans. Lin Yutang

 

I sought this out because of the previous translations interpretstion of the bad man being the good man's job. But other parts seemed to stand out once I re-read it.

 

[C T]

18 minutes ago, OldDog said:

I think trying to make this site an exclusive Daoist forum is probably not the right way to go.

 

Exclusivism is part of the problem. It means rejecting other input. True other input may not be consistent with teachings from the time of Laozi ... But this is not the time of Laozi. Daoism has to find its place in the modern world. Maintaining a grounding in the original teachings is important but trying to avoid interaction with other belief systems is unavoidable. Daoism has to stand on its own where ever it finds itself.

 

I often think of the development of Buddhism, as it migrated out of South Asia north and east, and transformed into forms that suited the cultures and times it found itself. I think this has to happen with Daoism, if it is to remain viable.

 

It's not so much about what you believe as it is how you believe.

 

Just mho.

 

 

Clarification please: Did you mean interaction with other traditions is unavoidable? 

Just need to see where you're coming from because you also mentioned the point about the vitalness of Daoism needing to stand on its own. 

 

Thank you