No more right-wing bullshit.

[liminal_luke]

18 minutes ago, Wizz said:

 

You do it because I already know he's a real gentleman that will never turn down a fine woman like you no matter your ppd size is

 

On the contrary, I think Sean has shown himself as someone more than willing to speak his mind to men and women alike.  Personally, I think ilumairen has one of the best (creative, inclusive, fun) PPDs around and I´d hate to see it diminished.

[C T]

16 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

On the contrary, I think Sean has shown himself as someone more than willing to speak his mind to men and women alike.  Personally, I think ilumairen has one of the best (creative, inclusive, fun) PPDs around and I´d hate to see it diminished.

 

Uh huh.... 

[sean]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Let's just ask him. Sean would you prefer I left and started my own forum due to the size of my ppd?

 

 

😂

 

Sean

 

[doc benway]

11 hours ago, lifeforce said:

 

A word, and an insidious agenda, that the radical left have invented and forced upon the general populace as of late.

There is, has been, and only ever will be, two genders. Regardless of your political (or non-political) stance.

 

 

Not true at all. There are many gender variations in nature, both anatomical and psychological, and among human cultures dating back nearly three millennia, particularly among the true American peoples on both continents, India, the Phillipines, and others...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_system

The 'insidious agenda" you're so afraid of is to offer loving support to human beings who simply are looking for happiness and connection, like anyone else. I understand that it feels foreign and uncomfortable for some. That's OK, that's real too.

You're stuck in a hurtful and insensitive story, lifeforce.

I invite you to wake up, my friend.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by steve

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

On the contrary, I think Sean has shown himself as someone more than willing to speak his mind to men and women alike.  Personally, I think ilumairen has one of the best (creative, inclusive, fun) PPDs around and I´d hate to see it diminished.

For effect

Edited August 2, 2019 by steve

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, sean said:

 

 

😂

 

Sean

 

 

 

DUDE ! 

 

You time away has really aged you !   Maybe update your profile pic ! 

[Walker]

On 8/2/2019 at 6:51 PM, lifeforce said:

A word, and an insidious agenda, that the radical left have invented and forced upon the general populace as of late.

There is, has been, and only ever will be, two genders. Regardless of your political (or non-political) stance.

 

I appreciate that Lifeforce has been here for a good long time. I also very much (and very much more) appreciate why Sean is not putting up with this shit any more. I can't know exactly why Sean has made the decisions he has, but I don't need to, 'cause know the reasons why I understand them. And it all boils down to: I don't think many if any transexuals had any more choice in the matter of their gender than I had in the matter of growing two arms, two legs, and a head instead of any other combination. And had I come out with six arms I might've even done something so drastic as ask a surgeon to make changes that made me feel at home in my own body, if my body did not feel like home. And I believe that anywhere along the way in that process I for sure would have received so much bullying and disrespect that it would be hard keeping my head high and breathing easy in this world, because I know I've felt plenty cruelty from others--especially in childhood and adolescence--for far lesser "abnormalities" and "transgressions." And I understand that that cruelty is a big part of the reason there are many suicides among transexuals. And the very least we can all do is make this a place where somebody who has been ostracized their whole life breathe easy and find acceptance. Because one thing is for Daodamn sure: all people got spat out of the exact same Dao that births one that births two that births three that births ten thousand things. The process that gave birth to this fool I call "me" gave birth to people who look, think, and act not at all like me. Therefore, tracing things back to their root, I have only two choices: accept that we are of one and the same plant, or cut off my own branch to spite those I have not yet learned to understand, but ultimately cause the withering, ossification, and dry shriveled death of my own shen. 

 

Word.

 

Is.

 

Bond.

 

Of course, one can make the argument that one I just said is totally hypocritical and I should open my arms to oppressors in the same spirit open my arms to oppressed, and therefore I should be opposed to Sean's recent decisions. Duly noted, but I view Sean's actions as more like taking a weapon out of the hands of a drunk. A different kind of compassion manifestation of compassion may be needed in different situations. 

 

Now, when you've got a bit of qi the universe has a way of answering your questions very quickly. And Lifeforce's post yesterday made wonder what some of the old Daoists I know might make of transxexuality. Lo and behold, this morning at 8:30am I paid a visit to an 87-year-old Dragon Gate master (grandmaster, really) I study with, who is originally from Shandong province in China. He had asked a few of us male students there in the morning to clarify some teachings specific to the male reproductive system, and wouldn't you know his storytelling suddenly veered to talk to some of the young fathers in the room about how it's good to regularly pat kids on the head--but maybe not too much, if the kids are hanging out around cultivators and therefore getting tons of head pats from adults whose laogong points are pulsing with qi. 

 

He then told the story of a young man, born in 1981, whose parents were both practicing Daoist qigong regularly in the 1980s, and therefore the kid was often hanging around the school. He was a bright kid and friendly, so he ended up getting a lot of head pats--eventually this had the effect of "opening" (開竅 in Chinese) the spiritual centers in his head, and he quickly turned into a bonafied genius. I will not share the name of the person in the story, but this person is famous, influential, and indeed widely regarded as being truly brilliant, a prodigy. He skipped high school and college and went into the workforce and continues to make contributions in the world.

 

Now, much as I respect him, the master telling this story is close to 90 and not especially abreast of how notions of gender have evolved in the last few years. On the other hand, as you would expect from a devoted Daoist teacher, he displayed no hardness or cruelty or even judgement in his assessment of what happened next to this young man. Continuing the story, the teacher said that one side effect of the boy's qi changes that were brought on when some of the spiritual centers in his brain "opened" was that he started to get frequent, persistent erections--"priapism" this is called. The boy did not have an affinity for Daoist practice, however, and never learned the practices that would have helped him circulate the powerful amount of energy that was stimulating his genitals. In fact, he did not even dare tell his parents about his problems with priapism, which caused him much shame. According to the old Daoist, the unfortunate result was that he came to develop a certain disgust for his physical situation and eventually went to Thailand in his 20s and got a sex change. 

 

Now, was the old Daoist right in his assessment? I suspect that at very best he was telling half the story. As I said, the person he was talking about is quite famous, and I looked her up this afternoon and discovered that she has told her own story publicly. One thing she said translates to, "I am 'post-gender.' My choice is to stand on no side of the debate about gender. This is not at all because I feel that this issue is unimportant. Rather, it is because I am of the opinion that debate will not solve any problems." My hunch is that if I asked this woman to tell me about her boyhood changes, she might think that the old Daoist's idea that it all started because people with qigong hands patted her on the head too much is total malarkey. Then again, who knows!?

 

My point is definitely not to try and say, "ooh, look, the octogenarian qi master knows alllllllll, don't rub your kid's head or he'll turn into a girl." Sheesh, please do not let that become TDB sex-related qigong misconception #5,203! (Probably the cat is already out of the bag, sigh)

 

My point is simply to say: the old Daoist who came from a very conservative society (trust me, even today Shandong province, where I spend a lot of time, is not an easy place for misfits of any kind to live in) told this story as even-keeledly as though he were talking about the weather; he talked about how he and this young woman are still friends; and he spoke glowingly of her brilliance for learning languages and many other things. Of the surgery had little more to say than, "well, that was a big thing that might have been avoided if we had realized what was going on, but she never dared tell anybody, which is a pity." But in his mind the problem wasn't that the young man socially transgressed by getting a sex change and becoming a woman... He thought it was a shame mostly because Daoists just generally tend to advise against avoiding all kinds of surgery if that is possible, because they think cutting up the body is really bad for qi! As far as he was concerned, though, in the end this was a choice the man made, and now he is a woman, so be it! They're still friends! She still visits for tea! The Dao keeps rolling! Yeah! That's how you make it to 87 and remain full of vitality and freshness, not grumbling on the internet about how everybody sucks and this and that change is insidious and I just want my pub lunch. 

 

Somebody here said that if there must be political discussion here, let it be from the standpoint of "how might a Daoist look at this." I agree, although I also know that we've got too many people here who think they know every last thing there is about Daoism because they read a translation of the Daodejing once and it evidently told them that you can be a chauvanistic pro-Trump "anarchist" because Zhuangzi said so or some other such nonsense. Nevertheless, in the spirit of whoever said that about politics, I ask, how might Lifeforce have worded his above post in a way that perhaps embodies a bit of the Daoist spirit whilst remaining true to the man that he is? My thoughts on a better way of wording these sorts of things: 

 

Quote

Sometimes it seems to me like transexuality is A word, and or even an insidious agenda, that the radical left have invented and forced upon the general populace popularized as of late. I find this hard to accept, because I was taught that There is, has been, and only ever will be, two genders. Regardless of your political (or non-political) stance. What do you all think of this?

 

Obvvvioouusssllyyy (and oh-so-fucking-predictably), a solid number of the people who probably aren't too interested in what I have to say except to argue at it are gonna see what I just did and think: SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR, LOOK AT THIS POLITICAL CORRECT BULLSHIT, SNOWFLAKE, STOP STIFLING MY FREE SPEECH, etc, etc. I get it. As you wish, as you please. All I can say is I refer you to what I said above about cutting yourself off from the root to spite the branches whose shapes, colors of leaves, and pinkness of their flowers you evidently do not like.

 

Bad for shen. Bad for qi. Not the Way. You suffer in the end. I speak from experience. I have been cruel to many people. And harmed myself plenty in the process. Hope you get a chance to learn. Hope you get a chance to meet more old masters. Hope you soften up, because Laozi said that the opposite is death. And if you're not interested in what Laozi had to say... why the fuck are you wasting your precious, finite, sooner-than-you-believe-to-be-very-finally-over life bathing in your computer monitor glow staring at this load of bullshit?????? Turn off the computer and go outside and smell a flower or smile at a toddler or help an old lady carry her groceries to the bus stop forchrissake!

 

Sigh, like Sean said, it takes SO much more effort to refute bullshit than it takes to poop it out. Trying to offer a little water and fertilizer to the other branches takes work. But really, there's no other option, 'cause nobody makes it alone. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Walker

[manitou]

What a beautiful post, Walker.

 

I think the problem lies between those who take 'the path' seriously (whichever one is being walked) and those that are building up stores of information in their brains.  For those walking their path - in other words, living day by day as a manifestation of the source, in awareness that 'I am That' - or, alternatively, learning about Daoism or Buddhism from an intellectual space.  There are those here, I've noticed, that seem to be addicted to the potential for argument on these threads - sort of like teenagers in a chronic state of rebellion against anything.  It's the argumentation that's the real draw.

 

And there are some here who are really trying to walk the talk.  Who take the knowledge of the Sage as the template of their own being.  Who ride the ox of self-examination and readily admit to mistakes.

 

There are just different breeds of animals here.  I think Sean has come back just at the right time, perhaps to bring TDB's back in focus.  He must have picked up a vibe in the ethers that told him to get the heck back here.

 

We'll be fine.  Those of us who have been here forever just need to maintain our place in the foundation, be kind, speak our truth, and wait while things unfold.

[doc benway]

41 minutes ago, manitou said:

We'll be fine.  Those of us who have been here forever just need to maintain our place in the foundation, be kind, speak our truth, and wait while things unfold.

 

Precisely

 

[zerostao]

This is the first ive looked at this thread, and ive only looked at the most recent posts. From those, i see that The Dao Bums is alive, well, and kickin'!

Of the few posts i just read. From liminal luke, ilumairen, sean, walker, nungali, manitou, ct, steve---the authors of those posts would make up a super mod dream team.

Like walker reminded us of

Word is bond.

It certainly is. And World is Bond. That's my take and i know I'm not alone in thinking this world is for bonding. Forging unbreakable bonds that endure all this world can throw at ya. This type of bond looks out for each other, this way there are no weak links. These types of bonds shine eternal. For some of the best bonds found anywhere--we're in the right place. Right here on The Dao Bums. 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

 

When someone clearly states what the takeaway is and even highlights it thusly:

No racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, climate change denial, fascism, crypto-fascism, antisocial bigotry, or far-right bullshit in general (including QAnon and Pizzagate lunacy).

 

The only reasonable response ought to be

 

Tops off @sean, i applaud the stand and support it. Not without its own complexities and whatnot but it was definetly about that time.

[futuredaze]

I could see wanting to ban/stop people posting explicitly racist, sexist, threatening, etc. things, but to ask people to leave just for being "right-wing" strikes me as incredibly intellectually dishonest and immature.

Edited August 4, 2019 by futuredaze

[ralis]

10 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

This thread is a good example of why leftism is closer to fascism than those on the right.  You can't burn the books, might as well just ban the people you disagree with.

 

I could see wanting to ban/stop people posting explicitly racist, sexist, threatening, etc. things, but to ask people to leave just for being "right-wing" strikes me as incredibly intellectually dishonest and immature.

 

Did you even bother to read the Trump threads?

 

FYI, fascism is a right wing movement! 

[futuredaze]

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

Did you even bother to read the Trump threads?

 

FYI, fascism is a right wing movement! 

According to who?  Wikipedia, which has a left-leaning narrative?

 

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions” Hitler, 1927

[ralis]

4 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

According to who?  Wikipedia, which has a left-leaning narrative?

 

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions” Hitler, 1927

 

You are quoting out of context. I have studied the Nazi movement along with most of the academic studies. Nazi fascism was right wing. I suggest reading all the available literature before you attempt to argue. 

[futuredaze]

Just now, ralis said:

 

You are quoting out of context. I have studied the Nazi movement along with most of the academic studies. Nazi fascism was right wing. I suggest reading all the available literature before you attempt to argue. 

I guess socialism is right-wing now, because some internet smart boy told me so.

[ilumairen]

25 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

I guess socialism is right-wing now, because some internet smart boy told me so.

 

Except he said "fascism." And denies Nazi fascism as being equivalent to socialism - pointing towards a deeper search of historical record, as opposed to a cursory glance at Nazi propaganda.

 

Please do correct me if i'm in error with this @ralis.

[ralis]

26 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Except he said "fascism." And denies Nazi fascism as being equivalent to socialism - pointing towards a deeper search of historical record, as opposed to a cursory glance at Nazi propaganda.

 

Please do correct me if i'm in error with this @ralis.

 

You are correct! There is a lot of propaganda promulgated by Jonah Goldberg, Rush Limbaugh et al., that fascism is a leftist movement. National Socialism (Nationalsozialismus) is confusing because of the term socialist being used. The Nazi's were luring left wing socialists to the Nazi party by using the new economic prosperity to the party's advantage. If one refused to join then work camps were the destination.

 

Citations from Wikipedia are questionable at best!

 

For background on this, Ian Kershaw's well written researched Volume 1 "Hubris" goes into detail as to why Hitler hated communists, socialists and so forth. I think it is on page 46.

 

I sense a ban coming soon since Sean has been very clear as to what he will tolerate on this site.

 

The shooting in El Paso today left twenty innocent persons dead. The terrorist is an alt-right, white nationalist neo-Nazi. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by ralis

[OldDog]

Looks like we are slipping into chaos again.

 

This whole issue is being driven from extremist power positions. Left/right, liberal/conservative, socialist/nationalist, communist/fascist. Is it not clear that identification with an extreme positions causes the real issues to be obscured.

 

We need to learn to abandon the extreme positions ... and their rhetoric ... and move to a place where common ground can be found. In reality, there is truth to be found on both sides of any issue. It is in recognizing those truths ... and accommodating to them ... that real progress takes place. Insisting on a winner take all course only ensures continued chaos. There are those that understand this and use it to ensure that chaos maintains so they can continue working towards their goals without any real attention being paid to them.

 

Let's not go there.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by OldDog
grammer

[Earl Grey]

https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/07/junky-tv-is-actually-making-people-dumber-and-more-likely-to-support-populist-politicians/?utm_source=API+Need+to+Know+newsletter&utm_campaign=6fc3865598-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_07_29_12_25&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e3bf78af04-6fc3865598-45814541

[wandelaar]

6 hours ago, futuredaze said:

I could see wanting to ban/stop people posting explicitly racist, sexist, threatening, etc. things, but to ask people to leave just for being "right-wing" strikes me as incredibly intellectually dishonest and immature.

 

Well - that's the problematic thing about all this. It's like cutting off one leg to save the rest of the body. On the other hand something had to be done. Anyhow, I think that for a Taoist there is or should be no place for triumphalism at this point. The Taoist general does what has to be done on the battlefield, but he doesn't take any pride in it and he mourns the casualties. Personally I think that it would have been better to ban political discussions and not people, or to close those parts of the forum where political discussions are being held. After all this site isn't devoted to politics. But then again I am not the owner of this site, and I can understand that Sean is pissed off as he sees his site being invaded by his political opponents. A right-wing Sean (if such were possible) would be equally pissed off when his site was taken over by left-wing radicals. - So it's mixed feelings all over again.

[pegasus1992]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

Well - that's the problematic thing about all this. It's like cutting off one leg to save the rest of the body. On the other hand something had to be done. Anyhow, I think that for a Taoist there is or should be no place for triumphalism at this point. The Taoist general does what has to be done on the battlefield, but he doesn't take any pride in it and he mourns the casualties. Personally I think that it would have been better to ban political discussions and not people, or to close those parts of the forum where political discussions are being held. After all this site isn't devoted to politics. But then again I am not the owner of this site, and I can understand that Sean is pissed off as he sees his site being invaded by his political opponents. A right-wing Sean (if such were possible) would be equally pissed off when his site was taken over by left-wing radicals. - So it's mixed feelings all over again.

 

 

Or one could just ban discourse around all topics mentioned (political, gender, sexual orientation).......which would be far more mature and impartial...as opposed to telling anyone you don't agree with to leave, then making a thread calling out to see who has the same political position or worldview as you

 

Holding such a position is quite honestly hypocritical....and very far removed from anything that anyone "spiritual" would do. I find it sad that someone would say "If you support A then leave"...its literally the equivalent of a child telling another child they don't want to play with them anymore because they like different cartoon characters

 

I think both polarties of left and right are senseless and unnecessary...and if people are going to be conditional with others based on any values or belief (whether that be left or right) I think ill make my presence scarce

 

Please don't think you are contributing to the solution by taking the specific stance you have @sean, actually you are contributing to the problem...

Edited August 4, 2019 by pegasus1992

[Wu Ming Jen]

It seems the rules and guidelines of this site are non political. Radical right wing bullshit extremist is not the way. The way of nature at extremes will revert back in the opposite direction to maintain balance. We are restoring balance. Look past the words. Using political terms is targeted at all the political bullshit on this site.

 

There are many forums for political discussions. Politics are not my interest on TDB and I do not want politics at all on this site IMO

 

Humanity's needs are the same in every country of this world. 

 

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

52 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

It seems the rules and guidelines of this site are non political. Radical right wing bullshit extremist is not the way. The way of nature at extremes will revert back in the opposite direction to maintain balance. We are restoring balance. Look past the words. Using political terms is targeted at all the political bullshit on this site.

 

There are many forums for political discussions. Politics are not my interest on TDB and I do not want politics at all on this site IMO

 

Humanity's needs are the same in every country of this world. 

 

 

A teacher told me once his political views were worldly and spiritual views other-worldly.

 

I disdain rudeness. Politics, unfortunately, fuels it, whether it's the Right-wingers Trump and climate change threads or crazy David Icke kooks people telling me I am a brainwashed white savior for being in the Peace Corps (and I am neither white nor colonized).

 

Manners are something that are important to teach after the distasteful elements are gone.

[MegaMind]

2 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

It seems the rules and guidelines of this site are non political. Radical right wing bullshit extremist is not the way. The way of nature at extremes will revert back in the opposite direction to maintain balance. We are restoring balance. Look past the words. Using political terms is targeted at all the political bullshit on this site.

 

There are many forums for political discussions. Politics are not my interest on TDB and I do not want politics at all on this site IMO

 

Humanity's needs are the same in every country of this world. 

 

 

 

 

 

People who think logically, critically and are rational beings tend more often than not to gravitate towards the left. 

 

The right wing often talks of the liberal conspiracy to indoctrinate our children with liberalism.  

 

https://video.foxnews.com/v/5816094387001/#sp=show-clips

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Brainwashed-Universities-Indoctrinate-Americas-Youth/dp/1595559795

 

https://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal_indoctrination

 

To me it is very telling when the most educated and the most intelligent people lean to the left.

 

 

 

 

 

My personal experience in dealing with far right individuals is that this goes far beyond politics. 

 

Even if you ban all political discussion on the site, you still have people who are loud, obnoxious, and cannot be reasoned with as facts don't matter to them.

 

I have met far right individuals and found they think with their emotions and not with logic.

 

Politicians who know how to convince these people using emotional language and arguments.

 

They can convince them of any absurdity they want.

 

Look at this as a prime example:

 

 

 

 

In this video Newt Gingrich says that feelings are facts too, and that just because the FBI national statistics say one thing doesn't mean they are true as what people feel emotionally is more important.

 

You cannot present facts because facts don't matter, only feelings and delusions matter. 

 

So even if political discussion is banned, these people are going to continue to turn this place into a cesspit any way they can.

 

What we need here on this forum is a group of intelligent, rational and compassionate people,  not a group of loud obnoxious trolls.

 

Telling all these far right conspiracy nutjobs to GTFO and don't let the door hit them on the way out is a really good start to cleaning this place up. 

 

We don't need that kind of crazy here.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by MildMouse23