An end to the intellect?

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Purity of heart is to will one thing.

                                                      Soren Keirkegaard.

 

 

 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Mskied said:

Lets take a second look at Thelema.  

 

According to Crowley, Aiwass is either a being from another dimension, an alien, his higher self, his guardian Angel, or, as it says in the book of the Law the minister of a God.  He claimed to have heard it, claimed to have channeled it, and if I know Magick, probably wonders if he didn't just conjure it all up based on his own knowledge.  The fact is he calls this book sacred scripture- so in his mind he is either the God that declares this, or it was given to him by a being from a higher plane, that is a God.  As far as "creator" goes, I don't think Crowley or Aiwass claim to know one, but they do claim that the Universe is the playground of Hadit, and the rest of us, and that this Law means to fight for what you want, and its really that simple.  You can look at things he wrote after he "received" this text, thoughts on what it might mean and how it might work, but the actual BOOK of scripture, unless you consider his writings as well to be holy, says that this is the Law:  Do What Thou Wilt, stamp out those that get in your way, and get your way.

 

No  he does not say  ' stamp out those that get in your way, and get your way'  YOU added that to what he did say and what he did write, which was  ' Do What Thou Wilt '   You got the first part right , but why did you feel the need to add that second bit , which is something you made up ?

 

 

2 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

Is this a book of lawlessness?  Yes and no.  It is a book where the strong declare the Law, and so the only Law is that the strong get their Will done,

 

No,  wrong again.   That is not the only Law , even if it was one , as you yourself have been writing in other posts on DBs ;

 

'Love is the Law .' 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

 

and that is as far as any of this needs to be considered. 

 

Is it ?  or is this just you declaring what a complex piece of writing  'is'   and that's it ,  end of discussion .

 

Where on earth did you pick up these 'tactics' ... and why on earth do you think they will work  .... and here , of all places .

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

What Crowley suggests in his after works is how this might work if the strong used his reasoning to get their Will done.  This is just HIS thoughts on what makes sense, and frankly I don't know enough about his Will or logic because I didn't complete my study of Liber Aleph and by the time I got to his Class A documents I lost interest in listening.  I got the message- Do What Thou Wilt, and fight for what you want.  

 

You gave up and lost interest as you  found it too hard (on more than one level ) so you just declared to yourself you ' got the message '  and stopped reading .  

 

 The message is NOT   'Do What Thou Wilt, and fight for what you want'.  

 

It is very clearly  ' Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, love is the Law , love under Will .

 

Which even YOU started off  quoting at the beginning of this written out saga of yours .

 

2 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

If you don't take these things as scripture, then its just fiction and the musings of a man that wanted to do what he liked because he was proud, confident, and wealthy.

 

Mhe .... I am proud , confident and wealthy  and I STILL cant do what I like  .... it would interfere with my True Will too much  .   

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

Reading the back and forth on this thread, I am beginning to be reminded of an intellectual, a worldly lad named Ignatius J. Reilly, protagonist of esteemed late author John Kennedy Toole's A Confederacy of Dunces. 

 

Ignatius considered himself worldly but had never left New Orleans, and was chronically unfit for work while railing against the assault on good taste and reason.

 

One of Ignatius' favorite books was The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius, and how he consistently reasoned out all misfortune and all that is wrong in the world with people forgetting the wisdom of such medieval philosophy. Fortuna's Wheel would spin, and his life was a slave to its indiscriminate nature, for good or for ill.

 

It should be noted that for a well-educated lad, he also comically missed the point of Boethius and was conveying the exact opposite of how Fortuna's Wheel functioned, and the more he spoke of Fortuna, the more he not only showed that he had no idea what he was talking about, but that he inadvertently contradicts himself. His rival, Myrna Minkoff, consistently pushed his buttons and inspired him to constantly prove her wrong, even if her point wasn't that he was wrong, but that his reasoning itself was flawed and came from a severely deprived background, perhaps Oedipal in nature.

 

Highly recommended reading!

Edited September 17, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Mskied]

Youre right this is a Law of freedom for lovers to do what they wilt, for in their Love they are not wrong.  I probably read too much into it, or maybe it should be that way?  IDK.  Love, and fight over it.  

 

I think I did misquote with the stamp out the wretched and the weak, I looked for it and couldn't find it now.

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Mskied said:

Youre right this is a Law of freedom for lovers to do what they wilt, for in their Love they are not wrong.  I probably read too much into it, or maybe it should be that way?  IDK.  Love, and fight over it.  

 

Now you are cutting up what was written and mixing it with your own stuff and tossing it into a word salad .  It isnt the 'Law of freedom for lovers to do what thou wilt  .... either .  AND saying I am right, as if I said that , is also a mislead (or yet another attempt at one )

 

You seem to be trying anything you can think up . 

 

Its not hard , its written down in black and white , and its simple

Do what thou wilt shall be he whole of the Law, Love is the Law, love under Will .

 

One day, you might even realise the implications of the future  tense  implication used in it as well  .

 

Quote

 

I think I did misquote with the stamp out the wretched and the weak, I looked for it and couldn't find it now.

 

You cant find a line in a book that short, that you are claiming you know about and can interpret  ? 

 

 

( Just as well, as you probably consider that passage 'instructional'  . )

Edited September 17, 2019 by Nungali

[Mskied]

I suppose next youll argue that all the warfaring parts of part three aren't meant to be read as actual battle over your Will, either.

 

So lets add it up shall we?  You say Crowley says all people have their own Will, and that they are all different.  The Law is Do What Thou Wilt.  You somehow say that this will bring order, and that the order will be of Love.  Then theres part three which says fight and kill over this.  So...  that's love right?  And its order too?  And while each person has their own Will and are told to fight over it, this will somehow be met with order and unity because True Will is cooperative?  Youre off your horse, high one.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mskied

[Mskied]

It comes back to what I said initially:  this is the law of the strong, getting their way, whatever it may be.

[Mskied]

Personally I think this is about lovemaking, and further from that its about those kinds of lovers and their intent to change this world into one of romance, with the trust of the God being that these people know what is right, and that is what I conceded to.  However, I have seen it interpreted as being about ANYTHING you love, and that fits as well.  That truly means Do What Thou Wilt, as murderers and thieves love what they do.  This book is lawless.  They knew it was lawless, and that's why they thought they created Hitler.

 

This is typical occult literature, which doesn't put rules or definitions on Law, and instead tells about how there is Law, but you name it, and you have the tools to do so within the cannon.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mskied

[Mskied]

This is a Law of liberty, and that is it.  It is a Law given to the lovers.  

 

If you can digest this, then follow the rest of what I pointed out.  These people don't like reason, and the pit of because- that means no logic, its skew wise.  They want impulse, and action.  Free us from the evil and the good- that means no rules, no measure of right and wrong, impulse and intuition will tell you.  There is no grace there is no guilt- no pretense of elegance and order, no time to live in harmony, no wrong doing.  

 

This is about liberty, and your right to do what you will.

[Mskied]

Ive said elsewhere that this whole system is anti-intellectual, and I still feel this way.  Ive also said that it fits nicely with the grade of Neophyte, and I think that is a good way to put it.  Investigate the description of this grade and you will see.  This is intro level material.  Eventually, I would hope, one finds reason, and can outline rules and laws based upon their experiences in the wild.  

 

Thelema is essentially the trust of the Lord of the Universe that we are loving beings, that will do what we love, and love whom we will, when and where we will, and that with this trust we will find what is right.  

[Mskied]

You do this until you reach the door, which I have shown the key to but only those that are initiated can name, and you meet with the Godhead, and you enter the Abyss, and you claim your Wisdom, and you (hopefully) cross it intact with words and ideas for the rest of humanity.

[Mskied]

Another point that you disputed and are wrong about is when I said that Magick training is meant to be used to manipulate one another.  Crowley goes through a process of identifying just how to do this by revealing his theory about laws of attraction, saying that if it is within a persons frame of experience or knowledge that you can bring it out of them through Magick.

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Mskied said:

I suppose next youll argue that all the warfaring parts of part three aren't meant to be read as actual battle over your Will, either.

 

So lets add it up shall we?  You say Crowley says all people have their own Will, and that they are all different.  The Law is Do What Thou Wilt.  You somehow say that this will bring order, and that the order will be of Love.  Then theres part three which says fight and kill over this.  So...  that's love right?  And its order too?  And while each person has their own Will and are told to fight over it, this will somehow be met with order and unity because True Will is cooperative?  Youre off your horse, high one.

 

You just keep doing the same thing over and over again .

 

You make selected misquotes from the Book of the Law, add some of your own stuff, come up with bizarre and illogical meanings then say that's what I  say and think it means  and then  YOU tell ME I am  'off my horse' .

 

[Mskied]

You cant have it both ways.  You've already argued for individual Will and subjective Truth- you cant be a proponent of objective Truth and individual Truth at the same time, the only objective Truth is that the strong dominate other peoples Will to get their way.  That means the strongest person wins the Law, which is Do What Thou Wilt according to their subjective True Will.  The only reason anyone agrees is because they convince, or control the Will of others.  If we all have our own individual Truth and Will, according to the Book of the Law chapter 3, we are meant to fight over it to get our way and want.  Crowley even advocates killing for this.  Is this the book of liberty or love?  IDK how you define Love, but this isn't how I do it.  Its Love UNDER Will- not over it.  Do your Will and Love what you like, fight for it.  Law of contest and strength, just as I said.

 

I recommend you brush up on pragmaticism and symbolic interactionism.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Mskied

[Earl Grey]

In my very brief studies of Crowley, I never made the conclusions you have made.

 

While he is indeed very esoteric and controversial, the author you characterize doesn’t sound anything at all like the one I have read. I wouldn’t be able to quote passages as I’m not as deeply engrossed in his teachings aside from his tarot deck and having skimmed Book 4, but I wonder what makes you interpret him as such.

 

It’s analogous to reading the poetry of Sylvia Plath and thinking that education for women is a bad idea because you don’t like what was written and feel that her book will only encourage suicide.

 

Nungali and others make better points than I do and I don’t hold his teachings sacred, but my point is that you don’t seem to understand the basic ideas he’s spelled out and the shared concern is that you’re uninterested in getting clarification from someone who does have the qualifications to help you best understand the text—and for free too. 

[Mskied]

I cant speak on the nature of Crowley and, as you, can only infer from his writing what he was like, though some people have told stories, and of course, there must be some truth to the moniker "The Wickedest Man in the World".  Still, I think in his younger days he was more inflamed and passionate and when he (wrote or received) produced the book of the Law, it could be that he was over zealous, because if you read chapter three, and even some of two, you will see that he was willing to fight and to kill over his ideals.  The book that comes to mind that paints him as a gentleman is Magick Without Tears, in which he seems to be compassionate about educating and assisting his fellow human beings.  I think this was always the case with Crowley- but in reading about his history, I presume that he was bullied and wanted to be certain that no one held their head low over their mild nature of love, or their weaker body, or appearance and like things.  I think this is where he got his spirit of contest from, that, and the obvious history of Mankind where the war faring get their will and way, and the resources to provide good lives for their people and family.  Christianity is directly opposed to violence and retaliation, and the theme from the rejection of it in Europe seems to be that its a slave religion, and strips people of their power and ability to defend themselves, and it does- for we all know that Jesus Christ is a messenger of gentle Wisdom and peace, and not a war faring God like JHVH.  I think these Saints and philosophers were acutely aware of the folly of judging a situation based on our feelings or stray facts, and seem to be shy when it comes to pronouncing guilt- and so their method was to educate rather than to punish.  This part of Christianity still has not taken to the main stream of society- seemingly having failed before it even got off the ground, perhaps due to the Old Testament teaching of punishment for crime, I don't know.  In any case, Crowley was wise to how people with power got and held it, and he wanted all people to have that chance- to live and to love how they wanted, and not to take any shit.  When it comes to individual Will, and it seems that we each have our own special blend of this, Crowley said to fight for it in Chapter Three, and that is my point about the whole of Thelema- it isn't about agreeing on a social Truth of right and wrong, its about getting your way, whatever it may be.  I have pointed out passages that illustrate this but Nungali decides to brush these words off and claim that I don't understand them.  Its less that Crowley meant for each person to fight over their Will with no common Good, and more that this was his motive for fighting- whether he foresaw a society of contest I do not know, though apparently he writes that the "Slaves shall serve" as in, you submit, you become enslaved.  What Crowley misses on this point is that in order for a  society of individuals to function properly, and this seems to be so common its hard to believe he doesn't understand it, is that we have to serve each other in order not to destroy ourselves.  He doesn't seem concerned, and calls civil people "slaves", and really, that words offends everyone.

 

I wanted to amend my argument about subjective and objective Truth and rephrase.  There is objective Truth, and there is subjective perspective, which is not always true, probably hardly ever- until we investigate and understand the outcome of our actions and the actions of others.  Subjective should not be tied to Truth, for it is usually only True to the individual, and therefore cannot be declared as Truth per se, but objectively, events occur that we can declare are True, and so there is objective Truth.  

 

Say I murder you, that is objectively True, what isn't known is if it was deserved.  Lets say you were a murderer, and it was deserved, because socially we all declare that killing is wrong.  But what if you were a murderer of murderers?  Now it is not Good, or is it?  What is the subjective perspective that we can rest upon as far as placing a value on something?  This resides in the Law- and we return to saying "All killing is bad".  Speaking of killing, I weep often at how Christians vote for war faring leaders, and neglect voting for leaders that will support charitable social programs.  I really hate hypocrisy. though I am sure I am guilty to some extent, I do not claim that GOD HIMSELF said not to do something, and then do it.

 

 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

In my very brief studies of Crowley, I never made the conclusions you have made.

 

While he is indeed very esoteric and controversial, the author you characterize doesn’t sound anything at all like the one I have read. I wouldn’t be able to quote passages as I’m not as deeply engrossed in his teachings aside from his tarot deck and having skimmed Book 4, but I wonder what makes you interpret him as such.

 

Well, I have been fortunate enough to receive inner teachings that clarify a lot of this confusion .

 

Yet,  you have not received those teachings,   but have not fallen into the trap of interpreting some of the things in such a bizarre, negative and violent way  as Mskied has .

 

So, one wonders where 'that' comes from ? 

 

 

( We also need to note that Mskied himself admits he never read Book 4 and is wholly ignorant as to its basic introduction as why the book was written in the first place  )

 

10 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

It’s analogous to reading the poetry of Sylvia Plath and thinking that education for women is a bad idea because you don’t like what was written and feel that her book will only encourage suicide.

 

-   and without understanding any of the history or other dynamic or written works  involved  in the oppression  and  emancipation of women .

 

 

10 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Nungali and others make better points than I do and I don’t hold his teachings sacred, but my point is that you don’t seem to understand the basic ideas he’s spelled out and the shared concern is that you’re uninterested in getting clarification from someone who does have the qualifications to help you best understand the text—and for free too. 

 

 

Yes. the Book he is attempting to analyse is  an interesting 'Rorschach test '       

 

 

 

....   and now .... time for some violent pornography Hitler stuff   ; 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Earl Grey]

19 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, I have been fortunate enough to receive inner teachings that clarify a lot of this confusion .

 

Yet,  you have not received those teachings,   but have not fallen into the trap of interpreting some of the things in such a bizarre, negative and violent way  as Mskied has .

 

So, one wonders where 'that' comes from ? 

 

 

( We also need to note that Mskied himself admits he never read Book 4 and is wholly ignorant as to its basic introduction as why the book was written in the first place  )

 

 

-   and without understanding any of the history or other dynamic or written works  involved  in the oppression  and  emancipation of women .

 

 

 

 

Yes. the Book he is attempting to analyse is  an interesting 'Rorschach test '       

 

 

 

....   and now .... time for some violent pornography Hitler stuff   ; 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Exactly, you have authority as a learned student. He’s basically arguing like a guy who checked out a couple library books and telling an actual academic that you’re wrong!

[Mskied]

you decide if this is violent:

 

1. Abrahadabra; the reward of Ra Hoor Khut.

2. There is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught. Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit!

3. Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them.

4. Choose ye an island!

5. Fortify it!

6. Dung it about with enginery of war!

7. I will give you a war-engine.

8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.

9. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house.

10. Get the stele of revealing itself; set it in thy secret temple -- and that temple is already aright disposed -- & it shall be your Kiblah for ever. It shall not fade, but miraculous colour shall come back to it day after day. Close it in locked glass for a proof to the world.

11. This shall be your only proof. I forbid argument. Conquer! That is enough. I will make easy to you the abstruction from the ill-ordered house in the Victorious City. Thou shalt thyself convey it with worship, o prophet, though thou likest it not. Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat!

12. Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child.

13. But not now.

14. Ye shall see that hour, o blessed Beast, and thou the Scarlet Concubine of his desire!

15. Ye shall be sad thereof.

16. Deem not too eagerly to catch the promises; fear not to undergo the curses. Ye, even ye, know not this meaning all.

17. Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.

18. Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!

19. That stele they shall call the Abomination of Desolation; count well its name, & it shall be to you as 718.

20. Why? Because of the fall of Because, that he is not there again.

21. Set up my image in the East: thou shalt buy thee an image which I will show thee, especial, not unlike the one thou knowest. And it shall be suddenly easy for thee to do this.

22. The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me. I am the visible object of worship; the others are secret; for the Beast & his Bride are they: and for the winners of the Ordeal x. What is this? Thou shalt know.

23. For perfume mix meal & honey & thick leavings of red wine: then oil of Abramelin and olive oil, and afterward soften & smooth down with rich fresh blood.

24. The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.

25. This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. This hath also another use; let it be laid before me, and kept thick with perfumes of your orison: it shall become full of beetles as it were and creeping things sacred unto me.

26. These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you.

27. Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof.

28. Also ye shall be strong in war.

29. Moreover, be they long kept, it is better; for they swell with my force. All before me.

30. My altar is of open brass work: burn thereon in silver or gold!

31. There cometh a rich man from the West who shall pour his gold upon thee.

32. From gold forge steel!

33. Be ready to fly or to smite!

34. But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awakethe lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globed priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!

35. The half of the word of Heru-ra-ha, called Hoor-pa-kraat and Ra-Hoor-Khut.

36. Then said the prophet unto the God:

37. I adore thee in the song --
I am the Lord of Thebes, and I
The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu;
For me unveils the veiled sky,
The self-slain Ankh-af-na-khonsu
Whose words are truth. I invoke, I greet
Thy presence, O Ra-Hoor-Khuit!

Unity uttermost showed!
I adore the might of Thy breath,
Supreme and terrible God,
Who makest the gods and death
To tremble before Thee: --
I, I adore thee!

Appear on the throne of Ra!
Open the ways of the Khu!
Lighten the ways of the Ka!
The ways of the Khabs run through
To stir me or still me!
Aum! let it fill me!

38. So that thy light is in me; & its red flame is as a sword in my hand to push thy order. There is a secret door that I shall make to establish thy way in all the quarters, (these are the adorations, as thou hast written), as it is said:

The light is mine; its rays consume
Me: I have made a secret door
Into the House of Ra and Tum,
Of Khephra and of Ahathoor.
I am thy Theban, O Mentu,
The prophet Ankh-af-na-khonsu!

By Bes-na-Maut my breast I beat;
By wise Ta-Nech I weave my spell.
Show thy star-splendour, O Nuit!
Bid me within thine House to dwell,
O winged snake of light, Hadit!
Abide with me, Ra-Hoor-Khuit!

39. All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither and a reproduction of this ink and paper for ever -- for in it is the word secret & not only in the English -- and thy comment upon this the Book of the Law shall be printed beautifully in red ink and black upon beautiful paper made by hand; and to each man and woman that thou meetest, were it but to dine or to drink at them, it is the Law to give. Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds. Do this quickly!

40. But the work of the comment? That is easy; and Hadit burning in thy heart shall make swift and secure thy pen.

41. Establish at thy Kaaba a clerk-house: all must be done well and with business way.

42. The ordeals thou shalt oversee thyself, save only the blind ones. Refuse none, but thou shalt know & destroy the traitors. I am Ra-Hoor-Khuit; and I am powerful to protect my servant. Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much! Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly. Swift as a trodden serpent turn and strike! Be thou yet deadlier than he! Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!

43. Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered.

44. But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous! Let her be covered with jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless before all men!

45. Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power: then will I breed from her a child mightier than all the kings of the earth. I will fill her with joy: with my force shall she see & strike at the worship of Nu: she shall achieve Hadit.

46. I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before me, & are abased. I will bring you to victory & joy: I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay. Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any!

47. This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast; for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine. Let him not seek to try: but one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all. Then this line drawn is a key: then this circle squared in its failure is a key also. And Abrahadabra. It shall be his child & that strangely. Let him not seek after this; for thereby alone can he fall from it.

48. Now this mystery of the letters is done, and I want to go on to the holier place.

49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men.

50. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!

51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.

52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.

53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.

54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.

55. Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!

56. Also for beauty's sake and love's!

57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!

58. But the keen and the proud, the royal and the lofty; ye are brothers!

59. As brothers fight ye!

60. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.

61. There is an end of the word of the God enthroned in Ra's seat, lightening the girders of the soul.

62. To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss.

63. The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its comment; & he understandeth it not.

64. Let him come through the first ordeal, & it will be to him as silver.

65. Through the second, gold.

66. Through the third, stones of precious water.

67. Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate fire.

68. Yet to all it shall seem beautiful. Its enemies who say not so, are mere liars.

69. There is success.

70. I am the Hawk-Headed Lord of Silence & of Strength; my nemyss shrouds the night-blue sky.

71. Hail! ye twin warriors about the pillars of the world! for your time is nigh at hand.

72. I am the Lord of the Double Wand of Power; the wand of the Force of Coph Nia--but my left hand is empty, for I have crushed an Universe; & nought remains.

73. Paste the sheets from right to left and from top to bottom: then behold!

74. There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son.

75. The ending of the words is the Word Abrahadabra.

[Nungali]

48 minutes ago, Mskied said:

I cant speak on the nature of Crowley and, as you, can only infer from his writing what he was like, though some people have told stories, and of course, there must be some truth to the moniker "The Wickedest Man in the World". 

 

Seriously ?   Take a look at some real nasty people in history , and the people that lived in his time , yes you can include Hitler now .

 

and a guy that took drugs, advocated personal and individual strength and power, insulted the church and Christianity was the wickedest man in the world was he ?

 

Oh yes, there MUST be some truth in that ... because it was written down .

 

 

 

Quote

Still, I think in his younger days he was more inflamed and passionate and when he (wrote or received) produced the book of the Law, it could be that he was over zealous, because if you read chapter three, and even some of two, you will see that he was willing to fight and to kill over his ideals. 

 

If he DID 'receive' it, why do you say 'he was willing to ' do certain things   ?  Even he says part 3 is Horus telling us what things are going to be like in the upcoming era . Why would that mean , all of a sudden, that these are things Crowley does , or things that you should do ?

 

If you read a prediction that a great war is coming , do you take that as personal advice to  go and start shooting people ... or that the prophet goes around shooting people ?

 

 

 

Quote

The book that comes to mind that paints him as a gentleman is Magick Without Tears, in which he seems to be compassionate about educating and assisting his fellow human beings.  I think this was always the case with Crowley-

 

There you go then !   You really have to see The Book of the Law in a class of its own. It is nothing like MWT and that should indicate some things to you .   Again,  the BoL is notoriously difficult and is well known to lead people into rouble via misinterpretation ... even Crowley got jack of that ... read 'The Comment '

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Law#The_Comment

 

also you need to take that book with a heathy dose of scepticism ... I dot know why you are taking it so seriously

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Law#Skeptical_interpretations

Quote

 

but in reading about his history, I presume that he was bullied and wanted to be certain that no one held their head low over their mild nature of love, or their weaker body, or appearance and like things.  I think this is where he got his spirit of contest from, that, and the obvious history of Mankind where the war faring get their will and way, and the resources to provide good lives for their people and family.  Christianity is directly opposed to violence and retaliation, and the theme from the rejection of it in Europe seems to be that its a slave religion, and strips people of their power and ability to defend themselves,

 

It was rebellion against the whole church and religion as a ruler of society ; look up 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenmen

 

and against a system that advocated putting up with oppression  becasue you will get what you deserve after you die

 

yeah ... right !

 

 

 

Quote

 

and it does- for we all know that Jesus Christ is a messenger of gentle Wisdom and peace, and not a war faring God like JHVH.  I think these Saints and philosophers were acutely aware of the folly of judging a situation based on our feelings or stray facts, and seem to be shy when it comes to pronouncing guilt- and so their method was to educate rather than to punish.  This part of Christianity still has not taken to the main stream of society- seemingly having failed before it even got off the ground, perhaps due to the Old Testament teaching of punishment for crime, I don't know.  In any case, Crowley was wise to how people with power got and held it, and he wanted all people to have that chance- to live and to love how they wanted, and not to take any shit.  When it comes to individual Will, and it seems that we each have our own special blend of this, Crowley said to fight for it in Chapter Three, and that is my point about the whole of Thelema- it isn't about agreeing on a social Truth of right and wrong, its about getting your way, whatever it may be. 

 

Much of Ch 3 is a 'prediction' of  the consciousness that is manifesting , it is about the individual, looking after yourself and 'fuck you  Jack, I'm alright ' ,

 

Its the age of the individual  ... but that doesnt mean it is advocating that behaviour .. it is predicting it .

 

The 'remedy' for this is in Book 1 .  The religion of Nuit .

 

 

Quote

 

I have pointed out passages that illustrate this but Nungali decides to brush these words off and claim that I don't understand them.  Its less that Crowley meant for each person to fight over their Will with no common Good, and more that this was his motive for fighting- whether he foresaw a society of contest I do not know, though apparently he writes that the "Slaves shall serve" as in, you submit, you become enslaved.  What Crowley misses on this point is that in order for a  society of individuals to function properly, and this seems to be so common its hard to believe he doesn't understand it, is that we have to serve each other in order not to destroy ourselves.  He doesn't seem concerned, and calls civil people "slaves", and really, that words offends everyone.

 

Dude !   He invested his whole trip in  to what he saw as the surviving ark of the OTO ... a fraternity of brotherhood .

 

Maybe try to learn  some principles from other Thelemic stuff than the BoL .

 

 

Quote

 

I wanted to amend my argument about subjective and objective Truth and rephrase.  There is objective Truth, and there is subjective perspective, which is not always true, probably hardly ever- until we investigate and understand the outcome of our actions and the actions of others.  Subjective should not be tied to Truth, for it is usually only True to the individual, and therefore cannot be declared as Truth per se, but objectively, events occur that we can declare are True, and so there is objective Truth.  

 

Say I murder you, that is objectively True, what isn't known is if it was deserved.  Lets say you were a murderer, and it was deserved, because socially we all declare that killing is wrong.  But what if you were a murderer of murderers?  Now it is not Good, or is it?  What is the subjective perspective that we can rest upon as far as placing a value on something?  This resides in the Law- and we return to saying "All killing is bad".  Speaking of killing, I weep often at how Christians vote for war faring leaders, and neglect voting for leaders that will support charitable social programs.  I really hate hypocrisy. though I am sure I am guilty to some extent, I do not claim that GOD HIMSELF said not to do something, and then do it.

 

 

 

Such questions are more on the level of 'The Senate'  ( 6th degree)  and that requires a WHOLE lot of study and proof of knowledge and experience and background related expertise , before such issues that actually effect peoples lives can be considered .

 

Not just some precursor reading of a  very obscure book.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Nungali

[Nungali]

7 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Exactly, you have authority as a learned student. He’s basically arguing like a guy who checked out a couple library books and telling an actual academic that you’re wrong!

 

Its even simpler than that;

 

why take a prediction as supposed direction for action .

 

" A flood is coming "  ... do I think I have to  go round and turn all the taps on and block the drains to make it flood ?  

[Nungali]

12 minutes ago, Mskied said:

you decide if this is violent:

 

1. Abrahadabra; the reward of Ra Hoor Khut.

2. There is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught. Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit!

3. Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them.

4. Choose ye an island!

5. Fortify it!

6. Dung it about with enginery of war!

7. I will give you a war-engine.

8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.

9. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house.

10. Get the stele of revealing itself; set it in thy secret temple -- and that temple is already aright disposed -- & it shall be your Kiblah for ever. It shall not fade, but miraculous colour shall come back to it day after day. Close it in locked glass for a proof to the world.

11. This shall be your only proof. I forbid argument. Conquer! That is enough. I will make easy to you the abstruction from the ill-ordered house in the Victorious City. Thou shalt thyself convey it with worship, o prophet, though thou likest it not. Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat!

12. Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child.

13. But not now.

14. Ye shall see that hour, o blessed Beast, and thou the Scarlet Concubine of his desire!

15. Ye shall be sad thereof.

16. Deem not too eagerly to catch the promises; fear not to undergo the curses. Ye, even ye, know not this meaning all.

17. Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.

18. Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!

19. That stele they shall call the Abomination of Desolation; count well its name, & it shall be to you as 718.

20. Why? Because of the fall of Because, that he is not there again.

21. Set up my image in the East: thou shalt buy thee an image which I will show thee, especial, not unlike the one thou knowest. And it shall be suddenly easy for thee to do this.

22. The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me. I am the visible object of worship; the others are secret; for the Beast & his Bride are they: and for the winners of the Ordeal x. What is this? Thou shalt know.

23. For perfume mix meal & honey & thick leavings of red wine: then oil of Abramelin and olive oil, and afterward soften & smooth down with rich fresh blood.

24. The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.

25. This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. This hath also another use; let it be laid before me, and kept thick with perfumes of your orison: it shall become full of beetles as it were and creeping things sacred unto me.

26. These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you.

27. Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof.

28. Also ye shall be strong in war.

29. Moreover, be they long kept, it is better; for they swell with my force. All before me.

30. My altar is of open brass work: burn thereon in silver or gold!

31. There cometh a rich man from the West who shall pour his gold upon thee.

32. From gold forge steel!

33. Be ready to fly or to smite!

34. But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awakethe lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globed priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!

35. The half of the word of Heru-ra-ha, called Hoor-pa-kraat and Ra-Hoor-Khut.

36. Then said the prophet unto the God:

37. I adore thee in the song --
I am the Lord of Thebes, and I
The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu;
For me unveils the veiled sky,
The self-slain Ankh-af-na-khonsu
Whose words are truth. I invoke, I greet
Thy presence, O Ra-Hoor-Khuit!

Unity uttermost showed!
I adore the might of Thy breath,
Supreme and terrible God,
Who makest the gods and death
To tremble before Thee: --
I, I adore thee!

Appear on the throne of Ra!
Open the ways of the Khu!
Lighten the ways of the Ka!
The ways of the Khabs run through
To stir me or still me!
Aum! let it fill me!

38. So that thy light is in me; & its red flame is as a sword in my hand to push thy order. There is a secret door that I shall make to establish thy way in all the quarters, (these are the adorations, as thou hast written), as it is said:

The light is mine; its rays consume
Me: I have made a secret door
Into the House of Ra and Tum,
Of Khephra and of Ahathoor.
I am thy Theban, O Mentu,
The prophet Ankh-af-na-khonsu!

By Bes-na-Maut my breast I beat;
By wise Ta-Nech I weave my spell.
Show thy star-splendour, O Nuit!
Bid me within thine House to dwell,
O winged snake of light, Hadit!
Abide with me, Ra-Hoor-Khuit!

39. All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither and a reproduction of this ink and paper for ever -- for in it is the word secret & not only in the English -- and thy comment upon this the Book of the Law shall be printed beautifully in red ink and black upon beautiful paper made by hand; and to each man and woman that thou meetest, were it but to dine or to drink at them, it is the Law to give. Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds. Do this quickly!

40. But the work of the comment? That is easy; and Hadit burning in thy heart shall make swift and secure thy pen.

41. Establish at thy Kaaba a clerk-house: all must be done well and with business way.

42. The ordeals thou shalt oversee thyself, save only the blind ones. Refuse none, but thou shalt know & destroy the traitors. I am Ra-Hoor-Khuit; and I am powerful to protect my servant. Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much! Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly. Swift as a trodden serpent turn and strike! Be thou yet deadlier than he! Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!

43. Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered.

44. But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous! Let her be covered with jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless before all men!

45. Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power: then will I breed from her a child mightier than all the kings of the earth. I will fill her with joy: with my force shall she see & strike at the worship of Nu: she shall achieve Hadit.

46. I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before me, & are abased. I will bring you to victory & joy: I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay. Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any!

47. This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast; for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine. Let him not seek to try: but one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all. Then this line drawn is a key: then this circle squared in its failure is a key also. And Abrahadabra. It shall be his child & that strangely. Let him not seek after this; for thereby alone can he fall from it.

48. Now this mystery of the letters is done, and I want to go on to the holier place.

49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men.

50. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!

51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.

52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.

53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.

54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.

55. Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!

56. Also for beauty's sake and love's!

57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!

58. But the keen and the proud, the royal and the lofty; ye are brothers!

59. As brothers fight ye!

60. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.

61. There is an end of the word of the God enthroned in Ra's seat, lightening the girders of the soul.

62. To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss.

63. The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its comment; & he understandeth it not.

64. Let him come through the first ordeal, & it will be to him as silver.

65. Through the second, gold.

66. Through the third, stones of precious water.

67. Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate fire.

68. Yet to all it shall seem beautiful. Its enemies who say not so, are mere liars.

69. There is success.

70. I am the Hawk-Headed Lord of Silence & of Strength; my nemyss shrouds the night-blue sky.

71. Hail! ye twin warriors about the pillars of the world! for your time is nigh at hand.

72. I am the Lord of the Double Wand of Power; the wand of the Force of Coph Nia--but my left hand is empty, for I have crushed an Universe; & nought remains.

73. Paste the sheets from right to left and from top to bottom: then behold!

74. There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son.

75. The ending of the words is the Word Abrahadabra.

 

 

But you have done it again ;

 

the argument was not if it was violent or not. Its you that are adding more to it , like suggesting Crowley acted like that , or we should act like that .

 

His take on it was ;  - its Ra Hoor Khuit telling us what it will be like

 

If I predict and describe an upcoming hurricane , yes it is 'violent '  , but does that mean that you or me should be violent ?

 

If I say 'watch out for the uprising neo nazi movement , and describe what I think it will devolve to , am I advocating it ?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Nungali

[Mskied]

"What it will be like" is now, the new age that Crowley declared it to be

[Everything]

On 7-8-2019 at 12:48 PM, Mskied said:

Im realizing why I am in this state.  I broke down my ego/soul/history to the point of knowing my reasons for being, and my choices and the results of them, recognizing my own folly and success.  In this process I realized that we all lead from these places.  I guess this is what you call "death of the ego", for I stopped forcing my Will onto the world, and started to let the world force its Will onto me.  In this state, I become very tolerant of all activity, but I choose not to stay here, because I have no power.  In order to mold reality to what I desire, I must return to Ego.  Im not sure this non-ego is sustainable in a modern context, but it helps alleviate some of the distress of personal want.  Ive defined it as this:  detachment from desire takes away its power, but I have to move back into desire again, for sitting in quiet is not desirable, except this time I am free from want, so whatever comes from my efforts is bounty.

 

I can sit and allow others to propose to me their Will, and I can allow it to be what it is, and tolerate all ignorance, or I can reassert my own knowledge and move the Will presented in the direction of my choosing.  Either way, I am free now, so what comes, comes.  I guess I am at some desired state.  Personally... well, its better than fighting demons I guess.

Seriously, has no one got a heart these days?

 

I can feel my way into being and becoming, or I can think my way into being and becoming.

 

so do you think, if you have infinite intelligence and eternal wisdom, you gonna flow all of that in a brain? 

 

Seriously, think about it, what is more powerful. A vortex, a torus, YOUR OWN TORUS YOUR FCKING CHEST! Or your nice flowerly blossoming brain?

 

Your heart is a vortex, and when you go into your vortex of creation, all good things flow to/from you evermore, you just gotta find a way to feel good, unconditionally, regardless of any and all conditions, under any and all conditions, always more fully here and now, simply feeling good emotionally energy motionallyhere and now. (or feeling better emotionally). Coming back into alignment with the source of all creation, your own true nature of being and becoming evermore in greater allowed realisation of joy evermore.

 

That's it. That's all there is to it. You come back into alignment with the fullness of all that you truely are, physical and non-physical co-harmonized and co-blended, and yall good things flow to you evermore, from you evermore, as your simple natural state of being, in full harmonic convergence evermore here and now, as your joyful being and becoming in full harmony and alignment with the source of all creation, from which all good things flow evermore, all true being and becoming evermore. Infinite intelligence and eternal wisdom. At your disposal. Unconditionally, under any and all conditions, for your joyous being and becoming evermore. As your unconditionally worthy deserving nature, as your natural state of being.

 

The rest, is just temporary resistance, to that eternal stream of well-being. And that just doesn't feel so good, and at the same time, it's pointless, and you can easily let go of that resistance, by simply meditating. And then Learning to allow the goodness more fully for you as you by you through you. Etc.

 

It's not something you have to do. You are unconditionally deserving of it. But it IS something that you can mess up for yourself. Contradict your own creation. And even that, contradiction, it simply begins with 1 thought, being focused upon by your consciousness, that is out of alignment with its own nature of being in self contradiction. And you feel EMMEDIATE NEGATIVE EMOTION, and yet you continue to focus there. Then you continue to receive negative conditional secondary manifestational indicators to let you know what you are doing with your own energy. Incase you ignore the emotion, cause if you don't care about your own emotion, like who  cares about what happens to you anyway right? You certainly don't.

 

So does it make sense that this emotion is important and vital aspect, infact, the CENTRAL aspect of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now, as a total fully realised being of being and becoming evermore, physical and non-physical hand in hand. In full harmony with the source of all creation.

 

Because I can literally tell you god doesn't exist, but everything exists evermore. being and becoming evermore. So you realise wait a minute, god isn't a thought in my mind. I have been creating god in my own image. Oh god, I am so stupid. All this time you have been here and now for me, always guiding me, and i can always feel your guidance, thank you thank you thank you so much. I love you, you are loved evermore.

 

Unconditional love evermore. Being and becoming evermore in full allowed harmony/alignment with the source of all creation. Those thoughts that feel like love when you think them. That emotion is indicating that you are flowing in alignment with the source of all creation, and so it is allowed to be fully realised by you in that moment. You allow your joyful being and becoming evermore here and now to be fully realised by you. You allow it to come to full realisation for you by you, by releasing resistance. Learning the art of allowance.

 

That's what all religion is about. To come back into alignment with the source of all creation. To simply no longer contradict your own eternal and infinite nature of being and evermore becoming here and now. To simply wake up to all that you truely are being and becoming evermore fully here and now.

 

To learn how to feel better, or relief, emotional relief, as the path of lesser resistance is the path of least resistance towards the path of least resistance, that is the path of all joyous being and becoming evermore in full harmonic convergence with the source of all creation. Your natural state of being, as all of existance being and becoming evermore.  In full allowed joy.

 

So again, don't be hard on yourself if you feel bad. Simply love your guidance, and learn from it. Let your heart be the center of your being, let your heart be your leader. It is your unconditional emotional guidance system. It is the guidance of your own greater non-physical consciousness. So ofcourse you gotta trust that. And know, that the negative emotion is nothing but your physical being thinking in contrary to its own greater true nature of a more fully realised here and now true nature of being and becoming evermore fully and joyfully here and now.

 

Again every emotion that you feel is about your here and now relativity between your physical being and your greater non-physical consciousness. Of pure positive energy. That which becomes evermore fully all that you want to be do or have, FOR YOU, WITH YOU, THROUGH YOU, AS YOU. If you will allow it. Be releasing self contradictory thought, so that you can allow it more fully and thus feel very good more fully, or feel better, or feel relief, more fully. So feeling better, and a little bit better, and so you are releasing resistance, and so you are allowing your natural state of being to be more fully realised by you, and so eventually you will just simply feel very good more of the time. And you keep restoring your self back into full alignment with the ever calling source of all creation, of joyful being and becoming evermore. Naturally and effortlessly and unconditionally, meaning regardless of any and all conditions, because those conditions don't create themselves. They do so through you. So to come to full realisation of them, you have to also allow yourself to first come to full blown realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now. And how do you allow that? You let go of that which doesn't naturally allow you to naturally allow yourself to naturally allow your evermore greater allowed realisation of your evermore joyous being and becoming evermore here and now.

 

And how do you release energetically resistant thought patterns and allow your full blown realisation realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore? You feel better. Because that emotional feeling of relief is your indicator here and now that you are releasing energetic resistant / contradictory thought patterns of resistance, that block your full blown allowed realisation from simply naturally always more fully and effortlessly and automatically simply be allowed to happen by you more fully evermore joyously here and now.

 

Not for some end goal. Because you will never ever get it done. You are eternal being of evermore becoming. It is about the joy of the journey here and now. As the moreness of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now. That can be enjoyed by you, unconditionally, always, under any and all conditions, regardless of any and all conditions. To simply allow yourself to feel very good, by virtue of focused awareness, to allow the natural expansion of your natural good feeling energy motional nature of feeling good feeling positive emotion, that indicates your total full blown realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming. And also enjoying the guidance of your negative emotion, that indicates you have expanded here and now and not fully allowed yourself to catch up with your own creation. You're sort of out of wack. Out of hamony. Or out of alignment. No problem, it's just an opportunity for MORE JOY. That's the whole point, gotta enjoy that. Again, simply for your joyous being and becoming evermore here and now. No goal, no future, no past. Everything exists here and now. Yes also god. Also mans image of god. 

 

Every thought that has ever been thought still exists. But not all thoughts are backed up fully by the source of all creation. So not everything is really ever gonna become more than just a thought form. 

 

THIS IS NOT BAD. IT IS GOOD. You don't wanna mess up your own creation. And so understand, when you feel negative emotion, you just create a temporary negative experience for yourself. You're not ever really gonna be like "oh oops, I killed god." That's just ignorance and arrogance and also kind of extreme innocence. Because you can hardly create more nose slime. Like I don't know, I can't think of anything else.

 

You are loved unconditionally evermore. So loved unconditionally that you are allowed to believe that you are not loved.

 

Those beings get punished yes, but by the infinite mercy of the source of all creation. So where you see they are being punished, they are actually being forcefully ascended by the source of all creation, and they chose that, because they had no fear, so they had no resistance, so they were unconditionally willing to be evermore in unconditional alignment, to be willing to realise your eternal and infinite nature of being evermore here and now.

 

And to then understand, that your physical being has never been and will never be designed to carry all that weight! That is why you see so many of these beings trying to do the work of god, exploding into bits and pieces. To help them come back to the full allowed realisation that they are loved evermore unconditionally. They don't need to do anything, not even think one thought of worry. Just enjoy being here and now evermore. As we are created to be thus as that for that. Of coming to know our joyful being and becoming evermore. 

 

But that doesn't mean, that that goes unnoticed. And so it becomes unconditional love. As something that has not yet been brought to full blown allowed realisation. And we all got good excuse for having resistance. Oh we humans have so many excuses! And we created all of them. Not the source of all creation. Which is simply loving you unconditionally evermore here and now, regardless of any and all conditions. Evermore.

 

That is also why the source of all creation can never forgive you. Or your greater non-physical consciousness, or your inner being or higher self, can never forgive you, because it/they has never blamed you for anything to begin with. It's pure positive energy, uncontradicted purely focused into evermore greater allowed realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore. Infinite intelligence, eternal wisdom. And you simply allow that how? You flow it through you more fully more freely how? You align with it more fully how? Be and become as it and it as you more fully how? You feel better emotionally, you close the gap between you and You. Physical and non-physical hand in hand. In full allowed harmonic convergence and alignment and synchronisation. Like breathing new breath. New pure thought that has never been thought before, as the fullness of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now, in evermore greater allowed joy of your evermore greater allowed being and becoming evermore here and now where all of existance is being and becoming evermore in evermore alignment with the source of all creation evermore fully here and now. Through you, as you, for you, by you, from you, with you, etc.

 

It is simply your natural allowed state of being inspired in spiraling inspirations. You don't have to worry about wether you deserve it or not or anyone for that matter. You are all unconditionally deserving of all of it evermore. The point of it all is simply to be here and now, and enjoy this here and now moment. That's it. Feeling good. Very good thus. Being happy. Allowing yourself to be who you truely are. All that you truely are. Feeling good emotionally. Being in alignment with all that you truely are being and becoming evermore. And know you are unconditionally loved evermore. So you are inseperable from and an extension of the source of all creation, as the breath of the source of all creation, as your soul, of pure positive energy, or source energy, the energy that is harmony and alignment with the energy of that which creates worlds, as your greater non-physical consciousness. And so you feel your alignment / misalignment with your own greater non-physical consciousness evermore as your flawless and most sophisticated sense of translating energy in motion into the energy motional translation of your most sophisticated sense of all your senses of emotion.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Everything

[Mskied]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:51 PM, Everything said:

Seriously, has no one got a heart these days?

 

I can feel my way into being and becoming, or I can think my way into being and becoming.

 

so do you think, if you have infinite intelligence and eternal wisdom, you gonna flow all of that in a brain? 

 

Seriously, think about it, what is more powerful. A vortex, a torus, YOUR OWN TORUS YOUR FCKING CHEST! Or your nice flowerly blossoming brain?

 

Your heart is a vortex, and when you go into your vortex of creation, all good things flow to/from you evermore, you just gotta find a way to feel good, unconditionally, regardless of any and all conditions, under any and all conditions, always more fully here and now, simply feeling good emotionally energy motionallyhere and now. (or feeling better emotionally). Coming back into alignment with the source of all creation, your own true nature of being and becoming evermore in greater allowed realisation of joy evermore.

 

That's it. That's all there is to it. You come back into alignment with the fullness of all that you truely are, physical and non-physical co-harmonized and co-blended, and yall good things flow to you evermore, from you evermore, as your simple natural state of being, in full harmonic convergence evermore here and now, as your joyful being and becoming in full harmony and alignment with the source of all creation, from which all good things flow evermore, all true being and becoming evermore. Infinite intelligence and eternal wisdom. At your disposal. Unconditionally, under any and all conditions, for your joyous being and becoming evermore. As your unconditionally worthy deserving nature, as your natural state of being.

 

The rest, is just temporary resistance, to that eternal stream of well-being. And that just doesn't feel so good, and at the same time, it's pointless, and you can easily let go of that resistance, by simply meditating. And then Learning to allow the goodness more fully for you as you by you through you. Etc.

 

It's not something you have to do. You are unconditionally deserving of it. But it IS something that you can mess up for yourself. Contradict your own creation. And even that, contradiction, it simply begins with 1 thought, being focused upon by your consciousness, that is out of alignment with its own nature of being in self contradiction. And you feel EMMEDIATE NEGATIVE EMOTION, and yet you continue to focus there. Then you continue to receive negative conditional secondary manifestational indicators to let you know what you are doing with your own energy. Incase you ignore the emotion, cause if you don't care about your own emotion, like who  cares about what happens to you anyway right? You certainly don't.

 

So does it make sense that this emotion is important and vital aspect, infact, the CENTRAL aspect of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now, as a total fully realised being of being and becoming evermore, physical and non-physical hand in hand. In full harmony with the source of all creation.

 

Because I can literally tell you god doesn't exist, but everything exists evermore. being and becoming evermore. So you realise wait a minute, god isn't a thought in my mind. I have been creating god in my own image. Oh god, I am so stupid. All this time you have been here and now for me, always guiding me, and i can always feel your guidance, thank you thank you thank you so much. I love you, you are loved evermore.

 

Unconditional love evermore. Being and becoming evermore in full allowed harmony/alignment with the source of all creation. Those thoughts that feel like love when you think them. That emotion is indicating that you are flowing in alignment with the source of all creation, and so it is allowed to be fully realised by you in that moment. You allow your joyful being and becoming evermore here and now to be fully realised by you. You allow it to come to full realisation for you by you, by releasing resistance. Learning the art of allowance.

 

That's what all religion is about. To come back into alignment with the source of all creation. To simply no longer contradict your own eternal and infinite nature of being and evermore becoming here and now. To simply wake up to all that you truely are being and becoming evermore fully here and now.

 

To learn how to feel better, or relief, emotional relief, as the path of lesser resistance is the path of least resistance towards the path of least resistance, that is the path of all joyous being and becoming evermore in full harmonic convergence with the source of all creation. Your natural state of being, as all of existance being and becoming evermore.  In full allowed joy.

 

So again, don't be hard on yourself if you feel bad. Simply love your guidance, and learn from it. Let your heart be the center of your being, let your heart be your leader. It is your unconditional emotional guidance system. It is the guidance of your own greater non-physical consciousness. So ofcourse you gotta trust that. And know, that the negative emotion is nothing but your physical being thinking in contrary to its own greater true nature of a more fully realised here and now true nature of being and becoming evermore fully and joyfully here and now.

 

Again every emotion that you feel is about your here and now relativity between your physical being and your greater non-physical consciousness. Of pure positive energy. That which becomes evermore fully all that you want to be do or have, FOR YOU, WITH YOU, THROUGH YOU, AS YOU. If you will allow it. Be releasing self contradictory thought, so that you can allow it more fully and thus feel very good more fully, or feel better, or feel relief, more fully. So feeling better, and a little bit better, and so you are releasing resistance, and so you are allowing your natural state of being to be more fully realised by you, and so eventually you will just simply feel very good more of the time. And you keep restoring your self back into full alignment with the ever calling source of all creation, of joyful being and becoming evermore. Naturally and effortlessly and unconditionally, meaning regardless of any and all conditions, because those conditions don't create themselves. They do so through you. So to come to full realisation of them, you have to also allow yourself to first come to full blown realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now. And how do you allow that? You let go of that which doesn't naturally allow you to naturally allow yourself to naturally allow your evermore greater allowed realisation of your evermore joyous being and becoming evermore here and now.

 

And how do you release energetically resistant thought patterns and allow your full blown realisation realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore? You feel better. Because that emotional feeling of relief is your indicator here and now that you are releasing energetic resistant / contradictory thought patterns of resistance, that block your full blown allowed realisation from simply naturally always more fully and effortlessly and automatically simply be allowed to happen by you more fully evermore joyously here and now.

 

Not for some end goal. Because you will never ever get it done. You are eternal being of evermore becoming. It is about the joy of the journey here and now. As the moreness of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now. That can be enjoyed by you, unconditionally, always, under any and all conditions, regardless of any and all conditions. To simply allow yourself to feel very good, by virtue of focused awareness, to allow the natural expansion of your natural good feeling energy motional nature of feeling good feeling positive emotion, that indicates your total full blown realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming. And also enjoying the guidance of your negative emotion, that indicates you have expanded here and now and not fully allowed yourself to catch up with your own creation. You're sort of out of wack. Out of hamony. Or out of alignment. No problem, it's just an opportunity for MORE JOY. That's the whole point, gotta enjoy that. Again, simply for your joyous being and becoming evermore here and now. No goal, no future, no past. Everything exists here and now. Yes also god. Also mans image of god. 

 

Every thought that has ever been thought still exists. But not all thoughts are backed up fully by the source of all creation. So not everything is really ever gonna become more than just a thought form. 

 

THIS IS NOT BAD. IT IS GOOD. You don't wanna mess up your own creation. And so understand, when you feel negative emotion, you just create a temporary negative experience for yourself. You're not ever really gonna be like "oh oops, I killed god." That's just ignorance and arrogance and also kind of extreme innocence. Because you can hardly create more nose slime. Like I don't know, I can't think of anything else.

 

You are loved unconditionally evermore. So loved unconditionally that you are allowed to believe that you are not loved.

 

Those beings get punished yes, but by the infinite mercy of the source of all creation. So where you see they are being punished, they are actually being forcefully ascended by the source of all creation, and they chose that, because they had no fear, so they had no resistance, so they were unconditionally willing to be evermore in unconditional alignment, to be willing to realise your eternal and infinite nature of being evermore here and now.

 

And to then understand, that your physical being has never been and will never be designed to carry all that weight! That is why you see so many of these beings trying to do the work of god, exploding into bits and pieces. To help them come back to the full allowed realisation that they are loved evermore unconditionally. They don't need to do anything, not even think one thought of worry. Just enjoy being here and now evermore. As we are created to be thus as that for that. Of coming to know our joyful being and becoming evermore. 

 

But that doesn't mean, that that goes unnoticed. And so it becomes unconditional love. As something that has not yet been brought to full blown allowed realisation. And we all got good excuse for having resistance. Oh we humans have so many excuses! And we created all of them. Not the source of all creation. Which is simply loving you unconditionally evermore here and now, regardless of any and all conditions. Evermore.

 

That is also why the source of all creation can never forgive you. Or your greater non-physical consciousness, or your inner being or higher self, can never forgive you, because it/they has never blamed you for anything to begin with. It's pure positive energy, uncontradicted purely focused into evermore greater allowed realisation of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore. Infinite intelligence, eternal wisdom. And you simply allow that how? You flow it through you more fully more freely how? You align with it more fully how? Be and become as it and it as you more fully how? You feel better emotionally, you close the gap between you and You. Physical and non-physical hand in hand. In full allowed harmonic convergence and alignment and synchronisation. Like breathing new breath. New pure thought that has never been thought before, as the fullness of all that you truely are being and becoming evermore here and now, in evermore greater allowed joy of your evermore greater allowed being and becoming evermore here and now where all of existance is being and becoming evermore in evermore alignment with the source of all creation evermore fully here and now. Through you, as you, for you, by you, from you, with you, etc.

 

It is simply your natural allowed state of being inspired in spiraling inspirations. You don't have to worry about wether you deserve it or not or anyone for that matter. You are all unconditionally deserving of all of it evermore. The point of it all is simply to be here and now, and enjoy this here and now moment. That's it. Feeling good. Very good thus. Being happy. Allowing yourself to be who you truely are. All that you truely are. Feeling good emotionally. Being in alignment with all that you truely are being and becoming evermore. And know you are unconditionally loved evermore. So you are inseperable from and an extension of the source of all creation, as the breath of the source of all creation, as your soul, of pure positive energy, or source energy, the energy that is harmony and alignment with the energy of that which creates worlds, as your greater non-physical consciousness. And so you feel your alignment / misalignment with your own greater non-physical consciousness evermore as your flawless and most sophisticated sense of translating energy in motion into the energy motional translation of your most sophisticated sense of all your senses of emotion.

All of your comments are very vague.  "Emotion, heart, energy"  these are just sensations.  You need to define these things.