An end to the intellect?

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Integrated said:

 

Oh did I upset you?

I get that he has upset you multiple other places also.

The principle you alluded to with beautiful and true and all that,

why so touchy if you have evolved past it?

 

I've seen some of those things you refer to so you are wrong about not seeing the context.

I just don't care, he is obviously a special guy.

I like what he is sharing, even if he is humorless.

Sure I could be viewed as taking a white knight stance on this.

So what?

Are you going to tell me that I have to be a moral relativist just because you are?

Even though you seem to only have given up your morals, and gained little equanimity for the trade.

 

As for my high horse, that is just a warning to play nice in this semi-anarchistic backyard of the internet.

I'm not beyond rolling in the dirt with you if that is what you bring, but I hope that we can stay on our horses for this.

 

No ... he  will  'not allow it '

 

 

[Nungali]

Actually, I am not allowing anyone to post in this thread any more .

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

Actually, I am not allowing anyone to post in this thread any more .

 

 

 

 

So let’s get this straight: OP not only fails to comprehend Crowley, but also whatever Nungali is saying. Nungali is just being the usual trickster teacher and now OP has a fanboy guardian angel, accusing Nungali and I of bullying the OP, while simultaneously demonstrating that he has less ability to not only comprehend the occult material referenced here, but fails to comprehend anything Nungali or I are saying, yet projects that he understands better.

 

Hmmm. OP Mskied and guardian angel Integrated both lack comprehension skills (in addition to actual knowledge) while being so certain of themselves.

 

 I think with those two, we have a match made in heaven.

 

[Mskied]

Its interesting because I am being accused of not comprehending, and I could say the same to you.  Understanding is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, especially with such work as what Crowley produced.  If he was actually intending for us to be kind and generous concerned individuals he would have just said so.  Instead he pours his hate on Christianity, a religion where those aims are their goals, so how can you not read this as what is?  I get that Crowley wants people to live and be passionate, and to love what they love and do what they love, but it is not out of reason to interpret the Law that allows him to say to do this to also allow to do other things.  It is less that Crowley promotes this as it is his Law that will allow it.  I know Crowley said to kill for your desire, to fight anyone that stands in your way, and he doesn't especially limit this to getting lovers or doing loving things; he says to do this if anyone stands in the way of your Will.  Its not that complex.  Does he promote going on a homicidal rampage?  If you investigate his view on why actions occur, he would probably tell you that it is your fault that we created a homicidal character, and so the homicidal character is the result of the Will of the Universe, and that this character is in line with his True Will.  Why does someone go on a rampage?  Because they feel wronged, mostly, and hate for some obsessive reason.  Crowley would say that we created him.  Crowley is not recommending even doing anything to change what we do that might create such a person.  He isn't even concerned with our adjusting our actions to fall in line with laws- he says deliver us from the evil and the good, there is no guilt, do what thou wilt.  Why cant you see what this inspires?  He wants us to do what we think we should, and that we will learn what we can do and what will be allowed.  I don't think he cares about laws, he cares about Will to do.  It doesn't take much imagination to see what the result of this might be.  Will it produce something Good?  Perhaps, and perhaps not.  Crowley doesn't care really, because he doesn't think there is such a thing.  He says what is Good for the individual is what is Good.  I have defended this for a long time, and I still will say we cant be certain what the outcome of an apparently evil deed might be, but doing these things is in direct contradiction with Wisdom- which is what he wants, because he believes there is no perfect Wisdom.  Err on the side of love someone said, but it wasn't Crowley.  Nungali is the one that cant see these things, he thinks Crowley was harmless, and hes wrong, and to accuse me of not understanding the text and for you to support him when it is evident that I do upsets me, because I am not wrong, but I will let the reader be the judge.  By the way, I have read a lot of his material, youre wrong that I have not.  You are also wrong that I haven't investigated and contemplated this to a long extent, because I have spent 20 years doing so.  You act like you are some God of knowledge but you aren't, no one is, and you can walk around with all your pomp and clever bantering and jabbing at people because you feel confident enough in your superiority, but the truth is youre really not as enlightened about it all as you think.  Integrated and I understand something of great value that people like Nungali simply wont understand because they believe that life should be contest and pride.  Humility may seem like a weakness to people like him, but to others its a great virtue, and I know that in the eyes of the Gods it is highly prized.  

 

You ask how he will stop you from doing these things, the answer is easy- we will ignore you like we ignore a child making a tantrum over something we told them they cannot have.  

[Earl Grey]

32 minutes ago, Mskied said:

Its interesting because I am being accused of not comprehending, and I could say the same to you.  Understanding is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, especially with such work as what Crowley produced.  If he was actually intending for us to be kind and generous concerned individuals he would have just said so.  Instead he pours his hate on Christianity, a religion where those aims are their goals, so how can you not read this as what is?  I get that Crowley wants people to live and be passionate, and to love what they love and do what they love, but it is not out of reason to interpret the Law that allows him to say to do this to also allow to do other things.  It is less that Crowley promotes this as it is his Law that will allow it.  I know Crowley said to kill for your desire, to fight anyone that stands in your way, and he doesn't especially limit this to getting lovers or doing loving things; he says to do this if anyone stands in the way of your Will.  Its not that complex.  Does he promote going on a homicidal rampage?  If you investigate his view on why actions occur, he would probably tell you that it is your fault that we created a homicidal character, and so the homicidal character is the result of the Will of the Universe, and that this character is in line with his True Will.  Why does someone go on a rampage?  Because they feel wronged, mostly, and hate for some obsessive reason.  Crowley would say that we created him.  Crowley is not recommending even doing anything to change what we do that might create such a person.  He isn't even concerned with our adjusting our actions to fall in line with laws- he says deliver us from the evil and the good, there is no guilt, do what thou wilt.  Why cant you see what this inspires?  He wants us to do what we think we should, and that we will learn what we can do and what will be allowed.  I don't think he cares about laws, he cares about Will to do.  It doesn't take much imagination to see what the result of this might be.  Will it produce something Good?  Perhaps, and perhaps not.  Crowley doesn't care really, because he doesn't think there is such a thing.  He says what is Good for the individual is what is Good.  I have defended this for a long time, and I still will say we cant be certain what the outcome of an apparently evil deed might be, but doing these things is in direct contradiction with Wisdom- which is what he wants, because he believes there is no perfect Wisdom.  Err on the side of love someone said, but it wasn't Crowley.  Nungali is the one that cant see these things, he thinks Crowley was harmless, and hes wrong, and to accuse me of not understanding the text and for you to support him when it is evident that I do upsets me, because I am not wrong, but I will let the reader be the judge.  By the way, I have read a lot of his material, youre wrong that I have not.  You are also wrong that I haven't investigated and contemplated this to a long extent, because I have spent 20 years doing so.  You act like you are some God of knowledge but you aren't, no one is, and you can walk around with all your pomp and clever bantering and jabbing at people because you feel confident enough in your superiority, but the truth is youre really not as enlightened about it all as you think.  Integrated and I understand something of great value that people like Nungali simply wont understand because they believe that life should be contest and pride.  Humility may seem like a weakness to people like him, but to others its a great virtue, and I know that in the eyes of the Gods it is highly prized.  

 

You ask how he will stop you from doing these things, the answer is easy- we will ignore you like we ignore a child making a tantrum over something we told them they cannot have.  

 

How is it my disagreement about your dubious arguments lead you to conclude that you think I believe I’m a god of knowledge? Or enlightened? Ha! 

 

A person disagreeing with you means they are know-it-alls! Or enlightened gods of knowledge! That’s new!

 

I disagree with you because you sound silly, not because I think I am great! And I disagree with you even more because nothing you’re saying sounds like anything I’ve actually said this whole time, but I don’t think you’re a know-it-all enlightened god of knowledge...I don’t even think about you except when you get defensive on this thread or post nonsense elsewhere!

 

Oh my goodness, I am really chuckling aloud now as I type this. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Mskied]

glad I gave you a good laugh.  Its all a joke anyway.

[Integrated]

7 hours ago, Mskied said:

You ask how he will stop you from doing these things, the answer is easy- we will ignore you like we ignore a child making a tantrum over something we told them they cannot have.  

 

Yup!

Though I think they knew that.

Just desperately tried to bait me deeper in, and blind me from that truth.

 

I somehow found this song fitting to what I've experienced in this thread so far.

 

 

 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

So let’s get this straight: OP not only fails to comprehend Crowley, but also whatever Nungali is saying. Nungali is just being the usual trickster teacher and now OP has a fanboy guardian angel, accusing Nungali and I of bullying the OP, while simultaneously demonstrating that he has less ability to not only comprehend the occult material referenced here, but fails to comprehend anything Nungali or I are saying, yet projects that he understands better.

 

Hmmm. OP Mskied and guardian angel Integrated both lack comprehension skills (in addition to actual knowledge) while being so certain of themselves.

 

 I think with those two, we have a match made in heaven.

 

 

 

 

Well, Mskied is stuck in the Abyss ... he won't be leaving as he himself wilfully rejected all help from ANYONE here . So, one must assume any 'Guardian Angel' he picked up along the way is actually an 'Abyss Angel '

 

 

 

 

 

 

( Wow !  he looks tough and scary    ) 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

Its interesting because I am being accused of not comprehending, and I could say the same to you.  Understanding is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, especially with such work as what Crowley produced.  If he was actually intending for us to be kind and generous concerned individuals he would have just said so. 

 

Nope .   It isnt about  any one's interpretation is better than anyone else's  It is about how you yourself contradict your own interpretations - which change from day to day.   And you cant or will not accept that ... and just go on continually doing it .

 

Eg above . You started off on this site  telling people  ( and quoting Crowley yourself and the Book of the Law )

 

'Love is the law '   

 

See ... he just said so   ... let your Law be love .   But all YOU can see is cruelty and oppression  and a need to  force your will over others - hence resulting in a  fear of others forcing their will on you - of course .

 

A lot of this has NOTHING to do with my understanding, study quailifcations or interpretations . YOU constantly keep shooting your own foot .

 

And blaming  everyone else .   Which is rather typical of 'these types' .  We see it a bit on forums like this, over the years ,

 

They come and go .. after trying to make a kerfuffle and  blame others for it .

 

Quote

 

 

Instead he pours his hate on Christianity, a religion where those aims are their goals, so how can you not read this as what is? 

 

How can I read this as what is ?

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

I get that Crowley wants people to live and be passionate, and to love what they love and do what they love, but it is not out of reason to interpret the Law that allows him to say to do this to also allow to do other things.

 

You confusion and  word combinations are getting worse .

 

 

Quote

  It is less that Crowley promotes this as it is his Law that will allow it.

 

... and worse .

 

Quote

 

 

  I know Crowley said to kill for your desire, to fight anyone that stands in your way, and he doesn't especially limit this to getting lovers or doing loving things; he says to do this if anyone stands in the way of your Will. 

 

Oh ?  he said to kill to get lovers did he .

 

This is the kind of made up shit  you continually  claim and constantly refuse to cite where it is in his writings .

 

You are probably all confused about Liber Oz , which is a call to revolution and liberation and yes, it does allow violence and fighting, it IS NOT the Christian properganda of " Just be still and put up with opression as when you die you will get your reward in heavan and your persecutors will be punished in hell '  - the biggest con in history .

 

It is the violence that has been behind every revolution we have had . 

 

 

But you dont want this .  I suppose the next time a Hitler arises you will not want to condone  violence to get rid of him , you will be telling us to just line up for the gas chamber .

 

You need to read some history and get a BASIC understanding of human nature !

 

 

Quote

 

 

Its not that complex.  Does he promote going on a homicidal rampage? 

 

 

 

Quote

 

If you investigate his view on why actions occur, he would probably tell you that it is your fault that we created a homicidal character, and so the homicidal character is the result of the Will of the Universe, and that this character is in line with his True Will.  Why does someone go on a rampage?  Because they feel wronged, mostly, and hate for some obsessive reason.  Crowley would say that we created him. 

 

See - self contradiction - you say it is your fault you created him ... but it is the will of the universe .  But Crowley would say we created him .

 

Do you put your brain in gear before you let out the clutch of your mouth ?

 

 

Quote

 

 

Crowley is not recommending even doing anything to change what we do that might create such a person.

 

Rubbish . You have not read or refuse to acknowledge his writings on criminals and punishments . There is a heap on it !

 

The issue is ,   criminal acts offend the WILL OF THE MAJORITY .  he has writings about theft and other serious crimes and states that if people can not accept the just  laws of their society - the collective will - then they are free to live in their own society whith no laws or collective will -  that is , a thief, by depriving someone of their own property, has magically asserted that they do not hold the principle of property ownership, so that should then not apply to themselves .

 

Thus is all just another case of your ignorance , slanted views or wilful deception .  - which one is it ?

 

Quote

 

  He isn't even concerned with our adjusting our actions to fall in line with laws- he says deliver us from the evil and the good, there is no guilt, do what thou wilt.  Why cant you see what this inspires?  He wants us to do what we think we should, and that we will learn what we can do and what will be allowed. 

 

You keep touting falseness - ow matter how many times and how many people point this out to you .

 

It is not 'do what we think '  - you just made that up .

 

 

Quote

 

 

I don't think he cares about laws, he cares about Will to do.  It doesn't take much imagination to see what the result of this might be.  Will it produce something Good?  Perhaps, and perhaps not.  Crowley doesn't care really, because he doesn't think there is such a thing.  He says what is Good for the individual is what is Good.  I have defended this for a long time, and I still will say we cant be certain what the outcome of an apparently evil deed might be, but doing these things is in direct contradiction with Wisdom- which is what he wants, because he believes there is no perfect Wisdom.  Err on the side of love someone said, but it wasn't Crowley.  Nungali is the one that cant see these things, he thinks Crowley was harmless,

 

Bullshit !   Where did I saw 'Crowley was harmless '    Absolute lies, bullshit and putting words in my mouth I never said .

 

These are your tactics , yet if I point them out, I am the bad one  - laughable !

 

he isnt harmless ... look what happened to you from trying to comprehend what he wrote  .. you  are messed up bad from  reading him , but then again, you would probably end up like that from reading anything deep or mystical .

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

and hes wrong, and to accuse me of not understanding the text and for you to support him when it is evident that I do upsets me

 

Again , your own writings show you dont understand it  , self contradictory and always seeing the negative side of it .

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

, because I am not wrong, but I will let the reader be the judge.  By the way, I have read a lot of his material, youre wrong that I have not. 

 

Then why cant you quote any one single piece of it to support what you say ?

 

 

Quote

 

 

You are also wrong that I haven't investigated and contemplated this to a long extent, because I have spent 20 years doing so.  You act like you are some God of knowledge but you aren't, no one is, and you can walk around with all your pomp and clever bantering and jabbing at people because you feel confident enough in your superiority, but the truth is youre really not as enlightened about it all as you think.

 

And where did I claim to be enlightened .  ?????

 

Man, you wasted 20 years of your life then ... and that's sad .

 

 

 

Quote

 

  Integrated and I understand something of great value that people like Nungali simply wont understand because they believe that life should be contest and pride.

 

Nope. I believe life should be love and enjoyment .. and my life is full of it .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

  Humility may seem like a weakness to people like him, but to others its a great virtue, and I know that in the eyes of the Gods it is highly prized.  

 

You ask how he will stop you from doing these things, the answer is easy- we will ignore you like we ignore a child making a tantrum over something we told them they cannot have.  

 

Is this post the beginning of you ignoring me   ?

 

lets see how you go with that then . 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Nungali

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

How is it my disagreement about your dubious arguments lead you to conclude that you think I believe I’m a god of knowledge? Or enlightened? Ha! 

 

A person disagreeing with you means they are know-it-alls! Or enlightened gods of knowledge! That’s new!

 

I disagree with you because you sound silly, not because I think I am great! And I disagree with you even more because nothing you’re saying sounds like anything I’ve actually said this whole time, but I don’t think you’re a know-it-all enlightened god of knowledge...I don’t even think about you except when you get defensive on this thread or post nonsense elsewhere!

 

Oh my goodness, I am really chuckling aloud now as I type this. 

 

 

That  ^

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Integrated said:

 

Yup!

Though I think they knew that.

Just desperately tried to bait me deeper in, and blind me from that truth.

 

I somehow found this song fitting to what I've experienced in this thread so far.

 

 

 

 

Ahhh a retro teenage metal head !     I should have known !

[manitou]

LOL.  This has turned into the most egoic thread I've ever seen here.

[ilumairen]

6 minutes ago, manitou said:

LOL.  This has turned into the most egoic thread I've ever seen here.

 

Apropos for a thread somewhat focused on Crowley?

 

Btw I actually disagree with the overall sentiment, while acknowledging you quantified it as you've ever seen.. 

[Integrated]

11 hours ago, manitou said:

LOL.  This has turned into the most egoic thread I've ever seen here.

 

I'm a bit curious how you define egoic here.

Since that seem to be tied in with how the culture of this forum act in general on these topics.

[Integrated]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Ahhh a retro teenage metal head !     I should have known !

 

It is funny that you seem out to hit every button you think I have.

 

You know,

in this day and age,

people are allowed through technology to be exposed to music they never even would admit to.

I get that it must be confusing to you in your little stereotypical bubble,

even though you try your best by linking 3 stereotypes together to compensate.

 

In fact people expanding their musical horizons have become a huge trend recently.

So much so that some people make a living having other people watch them expand their horizons.

But I again, get how this can be confusing to someone sheltered in a bubble

 

 

[ilumairen]

I wonder, if at some point, we humans (as a whole and generally speaking) will move beyond attributing to others what we do not know, and start responding to each other (as in the actual person we're supposedly conversing with) instead of our assumptions and caricatures... 

 

While it's mildly interesting to watch oneself or others dance with mirrors, true connection seems lacking when these scenarios play out, and it reminds me of what once used to bring me great angst - wondering if anyone ever actually saw anyone else...

 

To be entirely honest, while the angst has let up quite a bit over the years, I'm finding there is still irritation when this behavior becomes apparent in one claiming a high horse...

 

pssst you're now playing in the dirt too..

Edited September 28, 2019 by ilumairen

[ilumairen]

Are we going to have a mud fight now?

 

 @Nungali got a pic for us?

 

(Someday I'll have to invest more time in acquiring "appropriate insertion of humorous pic" skills; for now I'd just love a mud fight, and appreciate whatever assistance you would be willing to offer.)

 

Edit to add: Maybe a pegasus, as the horse seems to have flown away, or a unicorn, if we'd like to go with a it was all make believe narrative? This pic thing actually could be quite fun ..

Edited September 28, 2019 by ilumairen

[manitou]

8 hours ago, Integrated said:

 

I'm a bit curious how you define egoic here.

Since that seem to be tied in with how the culture of this forum act in general on these topics.

 

 

In the sense of the spirit of one-upmanship.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by manitou

[Integrated]

22 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

In the sense of the spirit of one-upmanship.

 

 

 

Ah yeah, well that is the game that is played isn't it?

 

I'd love to just relate as @ilumairen pointed out, but we both know it won't happen.

@Nungali need to save face to preserve his online persona, and I just don't give a shit.

Chiefly because I've met too many like him, and don't really feel like being more respectful than I have to.

Which means that I don't have to show much respect at all, since this forum is pretty lax on moderation.

 

I mean if there was a real bridge over this chasm, I'd be one of the first ones lining up to cross.

But as far as I know there isn't, and most people telling otherwise have an agenda of control and domination.

Would love if it where not so, but many of us have participated enough in the real world, to know how things are.

If one reads say Jung, the picture doesn't become any prettier either, we are doomed to repeat this.

The best we can hope for is saving ourselves as best we can,

and maybe just maybe humanity will figure things out a few thousand years down the line.

 

Quote

"...now the enantiodromia begins. Instead of taking for granted, as every rationalist and optimist is inclined to do,

that a good state will be followed by a better, since everything tends towards "upward development", the man of

blameless conscience and universally acknowledged moral principles makes a compact with Behemoth and his evil host, and even the divine children entrusted to his care is bartered to the devil."

Carl Jung - Psychological Types

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Integrated

[idiot_stimpy]

Those who are more familiar with eastern meditation practices may have more in common with the original question, compared to the Western Esoteric Tradition. It seems as if its a question about stopping thoughts in meditation. I'm stating the obvious I know.  

 

 

[Integrated]

6 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Those who are more familiar with eastern meditation practices may have more in common with the original question, compared to the Western Esoteric Tradition. It seems as if its a question about stopping thoughts in meditation. I'm stating the obvious I know.  

 

 

 

Yes silencing the monkey mind.

 

I think the best western parallel would be the Greek myth

of Hercules fight with the Stymphalian Birds in his sixth labor.

To me it represents symbolically the need to crowd out the negative thoughts with some counter like a mantra.

The birds being  negative messengers of the unconscious

and the mantra being the rattles Hercules used to scare them away.

Both forged by different fires, one from Ares the other from Athena via Hephaestus.

Ares being the destructive impulse and Athena being a more refined approach.

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Integrated said:

 

It is funny that you seem out to hit every button you think I have.

 

You know,

in this day and age,

people are allowed through technology to be exposed to music they never even would admit to.

I get that it must be confusing to you in your little stereotypical bubble,

even though you try your best by linking 3 stereotypes together to compensate.

 

In fact people expanding their musical horizons have become a huge trend recently.

So much so that some people make a living having other people watch them expand their horizons.

But I again, get how this can be confusing to someone sheltered in a bubble

 

 

 

My music bubble includes  Philip Glass,  Nina Hargen,  Prop ( astro jazz) ,  Tool,  Mike Oldfield,  Sade,  and Evelyn Glennie ( who happens to be deaf ( she plays by feeling the vibration through her feet ), Sultana , Material .... among others   ( see my posts in the music thread  for more ) ;

 

 in

 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Are we going to have a mud fight now?

 

 @Nungali got a pic for us?

 

(Someday I'll have to invest more time in acquiring "appropriate insertion of humorous pic" skills; for now I'd just love a mud fight, and appreciate whatever assistance you would be willing to offer.)

 

Edit to add: Maybe a pegasus, as the horse seems to have flown away, or a unicorn, if we'd like to go with a it was all make believe narrative? This pic thing actually could be quite fun ..

 

 

Just watch and listen to Evelyn   up there ^   , you might enjoy that more .

 

However, if you DO want a mud fight  ( and another of my music  narrow bubble choices  )  see ;  @ 4:22

 

 

[Integrated]

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

My music bubble includes  Philip Glass,  Nina Hargen,  Prop ( astro jazz) ,  Tool,  Mike Oldfield,  Sade,  and Evelyn Glennie ( who happens to be deaf ( she plays by feeling the vibration through her feet ), Sultana , Material .... among others   ( see my posts in the music thread  for more ) ;

 

 

 

mhmm, cool man!

[idiot_stimpy]

On 9/14/2019 at 3:06 PM, Mskied said:

Im trying to organize my ideas into perfect Wisdom but the demons make it too difficult to do this.  Ive been forced into non-thinking because I can no longer fight them off.  Now my mind has gone silent, as the demons have departed, and I am able to clarify and gather my ideas again, but I fear that they will return once I begin again, so I find myself having to be content with sitting silently.

 

Well done, you have realised that when you silence the mind their avenue of attack has been taken away.

 

Is it not reasonable and logical that when you turn off thoughts these so called demons are also very impressive and scary thoughts also?

 

By realising these thoughts are our own, rising up from our unconscious they completely lose power over us when we take responsibility for them. Remember if we understand that we are their creator, we gain power over them. 

 

Thoughts are born, live and then die.

 

So have compassion for your creations, when they return to you to die, dismiss them so they can rest.