An end to the intellect?

[Earl Grey]

15 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 Tis a snack!  I sleep little,  rise early,  I also spend the days studying and researching - at the moment my local area indigenous language  , and stories, and are comparing the hints in them - as I consider it a decayed tradition - along with my teachings from my teacher, who is in the Mother culture and  ' Mother Tongue ' of my local one , with what I learnt about other systems of initiation, including my own 'in field' experiences - the similarities are astounding !

 

Then, I  do some internet , make some time  just after dawn to go through my forms    ( a little hard as I would not travel interstate with my weapons , especially on a plane ! ) so I combine all long weapons forms to bo and all double weapons to 'two sticks'  ( I bought some  thick wooden  dowel at a hardware and cut it up ) and adapt , so now that is 8  done with bo,  and  6 with double sticks , and also my 13  empty hand forms . Breakfast ,dive,   lunch, dive,  dinner  at the  cafe  and back to  study, some internet forum ( I do more than this one ) and maybe a  Jacq Tati movie    .

 

Just as well I am not travelling with one of my sex mad girl friends        

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

If you haven't seen this one, they just removed it from the site. Good summary though. Saw it the other day. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2017/10/australia-rainmakers-outback-171024065513524.html

Edited September 1, 2019 by Earl Grey

[silent thunder]

Elaine Pagals:  The Origins of Satan

 

Is that the book you were mentioning in an earlier post @Nungali?

She began her exploration of the concept of the origins of evil and its sources in Western literature after the death of her husband, on their honeymoon if I recall accurately...   Her exploration led to that book.

 

I happened on it in the midst of my apostacy from the lutheran fundamentalist upbringing I was raised with and vividly recall that encountering it was like opening a window to the forest in a room of fetid air.  Or like Bilbo, garnering a breath of fresh air in the Mirkwood.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[ilumairen]

 

15 hours ago, Mskied said:

This is all I am going to say on this subject.  If you don't see what Im saying that is your business, to each their own.  Carry on if you like, Im moving on.

 

It seems you're a bit stuck - somewhere between recognizing "will" and giving your will over to others (based upon previous posts here), and even if you find yourself able to avoid this discussion the "stuckness" (or seeming internal conflict) will most likely remain. 

 

 

[ilumairen]

 

7 hours ago, Mskied said:

I just feel that Nungali is 1. Not comprehending Satanism from a Christian, Jewish point of view and 2. Not acknowledging what this law of contest will lead to. 

 

 

If one is proposing a Christian/Jewish view of Satanism, then there is already confusion and conflation of understanding imo.

 

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

 

If you haven't seen this one, they just removed it from the site. Good summary though. Saw it the other day. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2017/10/australia-rainmakers-outback-171024065513524.html

 

Thanks for that .   I  havent seem that.  I have seen old films that are now unavailable . I used to do a radio show years back at the local mud brick radio station , concocted of odds and ends and old style electronics. They had some amazing  indigenous music on LP records that I copied . Thats unavailable too now . The radio station  got updated and it all got .... ?   and they went to CDs ( which soon disappeared as they are easier to steal  than an LP) . By then it was going to shit anyway, so I quit .

 

 

Have you seen this ....  David   Gulpilil  at his best ... and peeps said his acting career was over  !  ('From jail to world renown" was the headline ). Great stuff in it but parts are absolutely heart wrenching  .

 

 

 

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Elaine Pagals:  The Origins of Satan

 

Is that the book you were mentioning in an earlier post @Nungali?

She began her exploration of the concept of the origins of evil and its sources in Western literature after the death of her husband, on their honeymoon if I recall accurately...   Her exploration led to that book.

 

I happened on it in the midst of my apostacy from the lutheran fundamentalist upbringing I was raised with and vividly recall that encountering it was like opening a window to the forest in a room of fetid air.  Or like Bilbo, garnering a breath of fresh air in the Mirkwood.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Ohhhh ... long time ago,    memory ... but I dont think that was the one alsthough the author seems familiar .

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

If one is proposing a Christian/Jewish view of Satanism, then there is already confusion and conflation of understanding imo.

 

 

 

Not to mention how he changed  the  wording to  ' Law of Contest  '

 

Of course I understand what the law of contest leads to .     

 

Thats why  I taught my school class Aikido !     They all loved it ....

 

.... well, not the class bully, of course   

 

 

and not to mention my raves about conflict and Mars and Menus not being able to work it out without Mercury .

 

Now I'm feeling cosmic ... and that we need a musical interlude  

 

 

 

 

[Mskied]

Nungali said that there is no Left and Right and that it was racist, which I haven't figured out how that works, but I wanted to give an illustration of what I believe represents this concept well.

 

The LHP is spiked with the aspect of Pride, while the RHP practices Humility.  These are conflicting auras.  Crowley tried to take the conventional White Brotherhood, which would be the practice of Humility and turn it to what they would call Black- he switched the two around, saying that the old White was Black, because it inhibited liberty, and for the magician that desires freedom, that is Black Magic.  This doesn't float well, because his White Brotherhood still practices Black Magick, which is essentially some form of control or manipulation of other peoples Will.  What he failed to see is that those who are of the old White CHOOSE to be, and so it is not a manipulation, but a submission- for they recognize the graces in Humility.  He opposed their indoctrination of children into their system, but their method of influence is no less indoctrinating than his.  And so, we should return to the old system, because White is absence and Black is absorption, and to be a Black Magician is to absorb all the colors where White refuses to be stained by certain behaviors.  

 

Why is White revered?  Because Pride leads to the Christian Sins:  Greed, Vanity, Lust- and when these fail, the "Sinner" falls to Sloth and Envy, and these things work against the peace of society, for they create jealousy, violence, apathy, unfair distribution of wealth, sexual combat and disease, and a world based on appearances rather than kindness, generosity, and Good Will.  Both the Proud and the Humble can be kind and generous, but the Humble person is less likely to be blinded by the obstacles of the Proud- seeing people as living beings with individual worth rather than what they appear to be, or can contribute.  Also, the Proud are more in line with the contest that causes death.  Its an old equation, and it rings true.

[Earl Grey]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:18 PM, Nungali said:

 

Thanks for that .   I  havent seem that.  I have seen old films that are now unavailable . I used to do a radio show years back at the local mud brick radio station , concocted of odds and ends and old style electronics. They had some amazing  indigenous music on LP records that I copied . Thats unavailable too now . The radio station  got updated and it all got .... ?   and they went to CDs ( which soon disappeared as they are easier to steal  than an LP) . By then it was going to shit anyway, so I quit .

 

 

Have you seen this ....  David   Gulpilil  at his best ... and peeps said his acting career was over  !  ('From jail to world renown" was the headline ). Great stuff in it but parts are absolutely heart wrenching  .

 

 

 

 

Saving it for a later view!

[Nungali]

And of course   'he' is back.   Ahhh, the old Nungers knows how to predict 'them'   

 

 I suggest he  reviews  Proverbs  26 : 11  .

 

 

[Nungali]

But I won't leave it  unaddressed ;

 

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

Nungali said that there is no Left and Right and that it was racist,

 

It is the correct convention to quote someone's words directly , in a quote  or reply box, as I have done  above ^ .

 

otherwise , well, people can just make stuff up cant they ?

 

So  cough it up ... where did I say that .

 

 ( Also please note , it is agains the rules to change what someone said in a quote box )

 

 

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

 

which I haven't figured out how that works, but I wanted to give an illustration of what I believe represents this concept well.

 

The LHP is spiked with the aspect of Pride, while the RHP practices Humility. 

 

 

NO these are purely your own definitions and left and right hand path means different things for different people.  For example, do you know what it means in  Yoga, Buddhism,  Vedanta ? 

 

Here is a kindy intro for you

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-hand_path_and_right-hand_path#History_of_the_terms

 

 

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

These are conflicting auras.  Crowley tried to take the conventional White Brotherhood, which would be the practice of Humility and turn it to what they would call Black- he switched the two around, saying that the old White was Black, because it inhibited liberty, and for the magician that desires freedom, that is Black Magic.  This doesn't float well, because his White Brotherhood still practices Black Magick, which is essentially some form of control or manipulation of other peoples Will. 

 

NOpe , his REAL teachings ( found in the initiation tradition )  have nothing to do with manipulating peoples will, only helping THEM to find what THEIR will is .   I already   gave some quotes

 

" We neither know nor care what your will is . "  

 

 

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

 

What he failed to see is that those who are of the old White CHOOSE to be, and so it is not a manipulation, but a submission- for they recognize the graces in Humility.  He opposed their indoctrination of children into their system, but their method of influence is no less indoctrinating than his.  And so, we should return to the old system, because White is absence and Black is absorption, and to be a Black Magician is to absorb all the colors where White refuses to be stained by certain behaviors.  

 

Also as one goes through the initiations the robes change colour. First it is black and that represents absorption, as you say above , because  a 'learner; should be absorbing things .  When they have, the robe is white, which is NOT absence as you stated above, it is reflection  - you should be reflecting your knowledge , to help others  and illuminate situations .

 

nearly every person knows this from the school kid to the 'solar technician' .

 

That is ,  white light contains all the colours ... have you ever heard of a prism ?

 

Solar  light and water panels are black on the  sun back side for a reason .  Hold your hand on a black surface in the sunlight , then try a white one, if you dont believe me  

 

 

It has already been demonstarted in this thread that yes, Crowley did abhor the Christian / Victorian indoctrination of children, but he replaces it with is not indoctrination but a freedom to allow children to  explore their interests and   NATURAL PROCLIVITIES  .

 

Of course, there are certain restrictions .... he doesnt advocate , like any parent with half a brain allowing  them to jump off cliffs to see if they can fly or not , or such other behaviour .

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

 

Why is White revered?  Because Pride leads to the Christian Sins:  Greed, Vanity, Lust- and when these fail, the "Sinner" falls to Sloth and Envy, and these things work against the peace of society,

 

Nope. You are making untrained and ignorant (as in uneducated)  assumptions .

 

Here is part of the  instruction about morals and ethics ;

 

"For wert thou to summon the Gnomes to pander thine avarice, thou wouldst no longer command them, but they would command thee. Wouldst thou abuse the pure beings of the woods and mountains to fill thy coffers and satisfy thy hunger of Gold? Wouldst thou debase the Spirits of Living Fire to serve thy wrath and hatred? Wouldst thou violate the purity of the Souls of the Waters to pander thy lust of debauchery? Wouldst thou force the Spirits of the Evening Breeze to minister thy folly and caprice? Know that with such desires thou canst but attract the Weak, not the Strong, and in that case the Weak will have power over thee."

 

http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0030.html

 

 and as I have previously quoted ; Do good for its own sake, not for reward or praise .

 

But you just ignore all that    that has gone before, dont you .

 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Mskied said:

for they create jealousy, violence, apathy, unfair distribution of wealth, sexual combat and disease, and a world based on appearances rather than kindness, generosity, and Good Will.  Both the Proud and the Humble can be kind and generous, but the Humble person is less likely to be blinded by the obstacles of the Proud- seeing people as living beings with individual worth rather than what they appear to be, or can contribute.  Also, the Proud are more in line with the contest that causes death.  Its an old equation, and it rings true.

 

 

'sexual combat and disease "   

 

Didnt you say you had issues with  a 'mental health problem"  ?

 

 

[Mskied]

Crowleys "God", or persona impersonating God, or whatever you want to call her, said "Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

 

law

[lô]

NOUN

the law (noun) · laws (plural noun) · the Law (noun) · Law of Moses (noun) · the Law of Moses (plural noun)

1. (the law)

   the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

   "they were taken to court for breaking the law" ·

   [more]

   "law enforcement" · "a license is required by law"

   synonyms:

   rules and regulations · system of laws · body of laws · constitution ·

   [more]

   legislation · code · legal code · charter · jurisprudence

   antonyms:

   anarchy

   • an individual rule as part of a system of law.
     "an initiative to tighten up the laws on pornography"
     synonyms:

     regulation · statute · enactment · act · bill · decree · edict · rule · ruling ·

     [more]

     resolution · promulgation · measure · motion · dictum · command · order · stipulation · commandment · directive · pronouncement · ratification · proclamation · dictate · diktat · fiat · covenant · demand · bylaw · ordinance · ukase · pronunciamento
   • systems of law as a subject of study or as the basis of the legal profession.Compare with jurisprudence.
     "he was still practicing law" ·

     [more]

     "a law firm"
     synonyms:

     the legal profession · the bar · barristers and solicitors collectively
   • statutory law and the common law.Compare with equity.
     synonyms:

     rules and regulations · system of laws · body of laws · constitution ·

     [more]

     legislation · code · legal code · charter · jurisprudence
     antonyms:

     anarchy
   • a thing regarded as having the binding force or effect of a formal system of rules.
     "what he said was law"
   • informal

     (the law)
     the police.
     "he'd never been in trouble with the law in his life"
     synonyms:

     the police · the officers of the law · the forces of law and order ·

     [more]

     law-enforcement officers · police officers · policemen · policewomen · the police force · the constabulary · the cops · the fuzz · the boys in blue · the long arm of the law · the (Old) Bill · the bobbies · the busies · the bizzies · the coppers · the rozzers · the force · plod · PC Plod · the heat · the pigs · the filth · Babylon
2. a rule defining correct procedure or behavior in a sport.

   "the laws of the game"

   synonyms:

   rule · regulation · principle · convention · direction · instruction · guideline · practice
3. a statement of fact, deduced from observation, to the effect that a particular natural or scientific phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions are present.

   "the second law of thermodynamics"

   synonyms:

   fact · verity · certainty · certitude · principle

   antonyms:

   lie · falsehood · old wives' tale

   • a generalization based on a fact or event perceived to be recurrent.
     "the first law of American corporate life is that dead wood floats"
4. the body of divine commandments as expressed in the Bible or other religious texts.

    

   Therefore there is no Law other than the one you declare, which means do what you like.  I dont have time to argue with people that dont understand this basic and simple phrase.

[Nungali]

This means nothing  just an obvious and desperate scraping of the barrel .

 

If you dont have the time to keep arguing, why are you still doing it .  Especially after you said you left .

 

You will have time ... and you will keep doing it .

 

 

 

 

 

as none can resist his hypnotic will sapping gaze !

[Nungali]

The thing is folks ... this guy is so 'disturbed' and just plain nuts (or maybe has a serious medical problem - as he did say he has mental health issues ) that  in some of his earlier  posts he was declaring 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' to people and following it with :Love is the law, love under will ....  Himself !   ... and readily accepting the thanks for it .  Then he started saying that love is the law of Satan . and then went on ....

 

one can actually track here his degeneration and further descent  into confusion .

 

 

,....  he will ignore all that of course   

 

 

 

 

\

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Nungali

[Mskied]

Why wouldn't Love be the Law of Satan?  For isn't Love the Law of God?  BTW can you teach/share/converse without throwing barbs?  

Edited September 4, 2019 by Mskied

[Nungali]

Hold still junior !  

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

   I am also available for kids parties .

 

 

[Mskied]

Anyway... back to the initial topic.  After 47 years of life and 20 of those being driven by the Divine to madness and intellect, I have reached a stage of non thinking.  I mean, I can think if I try, but my mind is totally empty.  It is also a strain to force myself to continue my mental working.  So I was wondering if there are systems that find this state ideal?  I don't think its very productive at the least, and at the best it is calm, quiet retreat.  The alternative is to be assailed by constant voices, so I am taking it for being good, for now.  

 

So far weve got Wei Wu Wei, Abyss baby, and I think the Jewish faith finds this desirable, and I know the monastic class of Christians would.  Not sure about Buddhists.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mskied

[Nungali]

I am glad you found a way to stop 'the voices' . 

[ilumairen]

On 9/8/2019 at 8:23 PM, Mskied said:

Anyway... back to the initial topic.  After 47 years of life and 20 of those being driven by the Divine to madness and intellect, I have reached a stage of non thinking.  I mean, I can think if I try, but my mind is totally empty. 

 

 

Can you explain a bit more of what you mean with the above? Particularly the bit about your mind being totally empty?

 

On 9/8/2019 at 8:23 PM, Mskied said:

It is also a strain to force myself to continue my mental working.  So I was wondering if there are systems that find this state ideal?  I don't think its very productive at the least, and at the best it is calm, quiet retreat.  The alternative is to be assailed by constant voices, so I am taking it for being good, for now.  

 

So far weve got Wei Wu Wei, Abyss baby, and I think the Jewish faith finds this desirable, and I know the monastic class of Christians would.  Not sure about Buddhists.

 

[Mskied]

I mean that when I sit I am thoughtless.  Nothing stirs, nothing reminds, nothing presses.  I have to force my mind to be active, and it is painful to do so, so I don't.  

[Nungali]

Does it happen when you are standing, or walking , etc .  ?

 

Can you do a task with  ' empty mind '  ? 

 

I find my mind  'uncluttered'  and clear   and   'not thinking'  when I am doing certain things I enjoy .  But only those things I  am well practised at .

 

At sword training some times I have observed some people have difficulty with ' 4th principle '  (air ) -  ' no mind ' ... always being distracted , talking chatting , etc .  I advise them that if they cannot have ' clear mind ' to at least try for  a mind of  ' clear blue sky' .

[manitou]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:07 PM, Nungali said:

On 8/25/2019 at 4:35 PM, Mskied said:

line 27 chapter 2 the book of the law: There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny that you picked up on this too.  I love the pit called Because, because this is the pit I grew up in, lol.  Always asking why.

 

As to the dogs of reason, I think he may be saying that Thinking alone will never find it.  There is a realization process - a process of inner glimpses and arranging one's self accordingly until alignment and clarity is realized. Both components are essential.

[manitou]

3 hours ago, Mskied said:

I mean that when I sit I am thoughtless.  Nothing stirs, nothing reminds, nothing presses.  I have to force my mind to be active, and it is painful to do so, so I don't.  

 

 

I too sit thoughtless, which I've been doing for a few years.  It took many years of brushing thoughts away to achieve it.  I'm at the same place you are, for several reasons.

 

I stand there in wei wu wei with you.  I allow the stream to run all around me, I no longer react in my pre-programmed way.  I am getting much better at it.   But - I have had absolutely no feelings - not one - for the past 2 years.*

 

I have left behind my overachiever self, although sometimes it will tap on my shoulder and I will feel guilty for not-doing.  But not-doing is what I am doing.  It is what I want to do at any given moment, or it is just sitting there and allow the thoughts to delve down into truths.  I've come to the conclusion that it isn't necessary for me to do anything.  It's only necessary that I remain in the knowledge of Who I really Am and willfully act accordingly.  The template of the Dao seems to merge into my life. 

 

We are the torch bearers, Mskied.  It's a whole new mindset, and we aren't alone.  Some on this site.

 

Here's how you can use your state to benefit a situation, yourself, or another person.  Know in your heart, as you are Consciousness itself, that the wu wei is working.  But you have to set an Intent first.  Otherwise you'll remain in an uninteresting position.  So when the dynamics of the situation start moving, keep your hands off them.  Let them resolve to their own accord; but you must have done much inner work to have the clarity to get the machinery running.  It's like a plate of spaghetti is suddenly turned into parallel strands.  But if ego gets involved in the situation, you will tweak the situation into a direction that isn't the best.  So if you've found humility at the basis of what you have found of yourself, you will be able to do this.  If there is a decision to be made during this process, err on the side of love.

 

 

 

*until I met this wonderful man on the Isles of Shoals last week.  Oh dear.

[Mskied]

Thanks for that, was interesting.  The way I describe it is that its an end to want, and so I can enjoy whatever comes along, because I am detached from desire.  I too, try to err on the side of love, but love isn't always what it seems to the beloved, and so I try to avoid doing as much as possible, for I would rather not get into meaningless conflicts about right action, and simply enjoy the company of those around me, though in my writing, I am different- in person, I am no resistance usually.  This took a lot to master actually.

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

I too sit thoughtless, which I've been doing for a few years.  It took many years of brushing thoughts away to achieve it.  I'm at the same place you are, for several reasons.

 

I stand there in wei wu wei with you.  I allow the stream to run all around me, I no longer react in my pre-programmed way.  I am getting much better at it.   But - I have had absolutely no feelings - not one - for the past 2 years.*

 

I have left behind my overachiever self, although sometimes it will tap on my shoulder and I will feel guilty for not-doing.  But not-doing is what I am doing.  It is what I want to do at any given moment, or it is just sitting there and allow the thoughts to delve down into truths.  I've come to the conclusion that it isn't necessary for me to do anything.  It's only necessary that I remain in the knowledge of Who I really Am and willfully act accordingly.  The template of the Dao seems to merge into my life. 

 

We are the torch bearers, Mskied.  It's a whole new mindset, and we aren't alone.  Some on this site.

 

Here's how you can use your state to benefit a situation, yourself, or another person.  Know in your heart, as you are Consciousness itself, that the wu wei is working.  But you have to set an Intent first.  Otherwise you'll remain in an uninteresting position.  So when the dynamics of the situation start moving, keep your hands off them.  Let them resolve to their own accord; but you must have done much inner work to have the clarity to get the machinery running.  It's like a plate of spaghetti is suddenly turned into parallel strands.  But if ego gets involved in the situation, you will tweak the situation into a direction that isn't the best.  So if you've found humility at the basis of what you have found of yourself, you will be able to do this.  If there is a decision to be made during this process, err on the side of love.

 

 

 

*until I met this wonderful man on the Isles of Shoals last week.  Oh dear.

 

 

   HA !       

 

(  I was going to question you on the blue bit . ) 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Nungali