Mass shootings

[C T]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

I have to confess that when I see a post like the one from @gendao above I never ever read them because they are copy pasted graphs and graphics / text and so on.  I like to read what people think - how they develop their ideas - how they are feeling about something cos then I can respond if I feel I have something to say.  I don't really care if I agree with them provided they are being genuine and thoughtful.

 

Is it too naive to think that perhaps if the shooters had had people who respected them and listened to them in their lives they wouldn't have been shooters?  That they might have been turned back from extreme views?  Or am I just being a liberal lefty wishy washy type of human?

 

 

 

One of the chief causes, imo, is that these people were convinced that their actions were fully justified (beyond the slightest trace of doubt, otherwise there will still be that hesitation, no matter how slight) which means that in their imaginary world, they already felt respected and listened to, warped as it may sound, but thats how delusion works most of the time, or is this also a wishy washy view? 

 

There could be a thousand and one reasons/motives - really, it may be thousands, or just one - that push these people over the edge though. Take for example the meme "Black Lives Matter!" - There could be a number of ways in which people concerned can read into such things when they inadvertently grab public attention. Ordinarily, one either respond empathetically, or feel indifferent, or find some disagreement with such things. This is the "normal" range of response. Perhaps, in the inner workings of the minds of those who resort to violent acts, simple disagreement was fed and allowed to turn into some ugly neurotic story, one that was at the same time gradually empowered by irreverent secondary inputs (could again be so many avenues from whence these inputs are derived, but in today's world, its usually mined online, on forums, conspiracy sites and so on), so what begins as something like a curiosity developed and morphed into an alternate reality where sane considerations of consequences are slowly, piece by piece, taken off the table, to be replaced, piece by piece, by warped and twisted mental absorptions. Unless and until they reach the point of  being able to completely eradicate all thought of real-time consequences will the final edit of their dramatic story be complete, and thats the point when action is felt as irrevocably justified. 

 

my 2 grains of salt. 

[ralis]

Trump has the unmitigated gall to stage a photo op in the hospital where shooting victims are being cared for! This photo is outrageous with the all smiles and thumbs up! Are these actual hospital workers or Trump's sycophantic lackeys brought in to make him look good.

 

[Apech]

2 hours ago, ralis said:

Trump has the unmitigated gall to stage a photo op in the hospital where shooting victims are being cared for! This photo is outrageous with the all smiles and thumbs up! Are these actual hospital workers or Trump's sycophantic lackeys brought in to make him look good.

 

 

The woman on the left looks familiar.

[C T]

Another angle that has yet to be mentioned - 

 

https://nypost.com/2019/08/07/the-link-between-pot-and-mass-shootings-may-be-closer-than-we-think/?fbclid=IwAR1H3k_0IJjNFd8WsX7hmaQdcKJjWviebu0-HD7nVlQgyM0EM39-XMSeKxM

[ralis]

1 hour ago, C T said:

Another angle that has yet to be mentioned - 

 

https://nypost.com/2019/08/07/the-link-between-pot-and-mass-shootings-may-be-closer-than-we-think/?fbclid=IwAR1H3k_0IJjNFd8WsX7hmaQdcKJjWviebu0-HD7nVlQgyM0EM39-XMSeKxM

 

New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch which is a right wing news organization. The article is based once again on reefer madness with no scientific basis. 

[C T]

13 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch which is a right wing news organization. The article is based once again on reefer madness with no scientific basis. 

I see... thanks. 

 

Are you discounting the connection then? 

In many parts of Asia, the correlation between all sorts of crime and drug use is well documented. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by C T

[ralis]

2 hours ago, C T said:

I see... thanks. 

 

Are you discounting the connection then? 

In many parts of Asia, the correlation between all sorts of crime and drug use is well documented. 

 

Cannabis has been unfairly lumped in with schedule 1 drugs. Cannabis is a herbaceous plant and not related to synthetic pharmaceutical drugs such as opioids. The research does not support the article in question. 

 

 

[gendao]

20 hours ago, ralis said:

New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch which is a right wing news organization. The article is based once again on reefer madness with no scientific basis. 

Yes, the author, Miranda Devine, is a hardcore Trump supporter. 

So of course she is going to totally ignore Crusius's alleged anti-Hispanic immigration manifesto (that echoes Trump's same platform and that of MANY TRUMPuppets HERE)...and instead deflect it all onto "Reefer Madness."  I mean, she has a point in that it really shouldn't be used recreationally by kiddos under ~26...especially those with severe psychological issues...but it's more of a contributing factor than primary cause.

Quote

We don’t yet know much about the mental state or drug use of the El Paso or Dayton killers. But a former girlfriend of Dayton killer Connor Betts, 24, has indicated he was mentally ill, and two of his friends interviewed by reporters this week mentioned his previous drug use.

And she also loosely links the other Dayton shooter to "drug" use...HOWEVER, his rumored drugs were actually NOT CANNABIS - but meth/coke!

Quote

Himes claimed that Betts “consistently” smoked methamphetamine and other uppers, including cocaine, and that Betts would sometimes write in the pages of Himes’ own journals.

IOW, lots more fake news and politically-driven deflection going on here...instead of just starting with the facts and digging deeper...

Edited August 9, 2019 by gendao

[gendao]

On 8/7/2019 at 5:29 AM, Apech said:

I don't think its right-wing ideology - I think its the personal alienation of individuals which drives them to extremism.  The left is not immune from violence itself - if you look around the world most state violence has been by left wing governments to the tune of 100s of millions.  But it is true that someone who is alienated from society is more likely to go right than left - because the left emphasises society, inclusion and the rest.

Well again, based on the facts - alt-right ideology IS THE PRIME POLITICAL MOTIVATION/INTENT for most all of these domestic spree shooters lately.  Simply blaming it on guns, mental illness, video games, or drugs is pure deflection and denialism!

Quote

El Paso shooter confessed to officers that he was targeting Mexicans

Crusius was also inspired by the Christchurch shooter's (Brenton Tarrant) manifesto - The Great Replacement.  Which vaguely rambles around a lot but seems to focus on anti-immigrant, ethno-nationalist preservation of the White race?  (Although I am then confused by his logo which includes anti-imperialism, environmentalism, protection of heritage & culture, etc...all of which were extreme and intentional casualties of the Christian colonialist war on the rest of the planet for the past 6 centuries.  So, he is wanting to preserve the same culture...that has been the most antithetical to many of his big, societal goals...WTH? )

Quote

An attack by a gunman at a Norwegian mosque on Saturday [2019/8/10] will be investigated as a possible act of terrorism, police said on Sunday.

The suspected shooter at the al-Noor Islamic Centre near the Norwegian capital - a young, white male carrying several guns - had expressed far-right, anti-immigrant views online, assistant chief of police Rune Skjold told a news conference.

Quote

Alleged white supremacists were responsible for all race-based domestic terrorism incidents in 2018, according to a government document distributed earlier this year to state, local and federal law enforcement.

Of course, Trump not only withheld this data...but supported their attacks by covering for them while sicking his dogs on "black identity extremists, animal rights/environmental extremists, and anti-authority extremists," instead - that posed greater hypothetical threats to colonialism...if not the actual public, lol.

 

Yes, he's more concerned about activists wanting to protect the environment...than colonialist invaders wanting to kill newer immigrants to all the lands they immigrated to, stole, and decimated!

Edited August 12, 2019 by gendao

[Walker]

On 8/7/2019 at 4:37 PM, gendao said:

1.  Yea, looks like that strategy's (silencing dissent) sure working great!
 

What would actually work is addressing all their gripes and concerns with better answers and dialogue...instead of just suppressing them and leaving them feeling unheard with no healthy outlet.  Problem is...the Left/Right colonialists DON'T have real answers to this, as they are all still within the same mental colonialist paradigm, themselves.  Which is why they both want to just avoid the actual topics, PLAY DUMB, and DEFLECT to vague generalities...

 

I'm sorry, but in the modern world, to various degrees we are all unheard and lack healthy outlets to express our deepest concerns. For a great many people all of over the world, the suppression they face is extreme and comprehensive. 

 

Yet most of these people manage to avoid walking to the supermarket and murdering dozens of people. 

 

Frankly, I think you are walking a weird line of apologism for a behavior which has absolutely no excuse. Again, that behavior is: going to the supermarket and shooting people. 

 

Your "PLAY DUMB" and "DEFLECT" also imply a "them" that acts with intention, agency, and clarity.

 

Most people are really just muddling through. Even we highly "awake" Dao Bummers aren't really sure what the "actual topics" are. 

 

Quote

For example, even he admits that European colonialism totally destroyed the Native Americans...

 

He said the reason that the Native Americans were decimated is that they did not appreciate the threat they faced and failed to defend themselves.

 

Ahistorical nonsense. 

 

Quote

and also how the American lifestyle is destroying the environment.

 

Yes, he does notice that. Then he concludes that the white Americans he identifies with will not change, and on the basis of this conclusion decides that the solution is to reduce the population and stop immigration. His mass murder, he says, will help further that goal.

 

First of all, his craziness and stupidity are so massive as to defy classification.

 

But if classification is necessary, then this is probably what is called "eco-fascism," a new and unfortunate buzzword to add to the mix of unfortunate buzzwords.

 

Quote

Although he gets defensive about the former, he is really unavoidably acknowledging the greater truth that CHRISTIAN COLONIALISM IS really THE MAIN PROBLEM HERE...and therefore the only real solution is to stop it.

 

Where did he say that in his manifesto?

 

Quote

 He is unintentionally right in that YES, it is a REAL problem that shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand!  And even deeper down the rabbit hole, Christian colonialism is really just a subset of ET EXOCOLONIALISM.

 

Sigh, I am neither proud nor ashamed to say that a few years ago when I was laid up in bed with a back injury I let a friend of mine who is sure about all these alien conspiracies give me a USB card full of what, he assured me, was uncontrovertible evidence that we're being colonized by ETs, etc.

 

I watched a dozen hours or more of the stuff while laid up.

 

It was highly entertaining codswallop. (I'm not saying there aren't aliens and that they don't come here but I've seen the "evidence" and what I can say is that I anybody who tells me s/he knows how the Zerbatookigranaokzivijibbians from Planet Chupacabras secretly invented Barbie Dolls to brainwash us all into plastiforming our bodies so that they can mate with us without being grossed out by our jumbly human genitals and musty pubic hairs or whatever is cray-cray fa sho-sho)

 

You project your proto-religious belief in aliens ruling the world onto this killer's manifesto, and you invariably get what you want to see.

 

If I was convinced that Zeus or the Spaghetti Monster was behind the problems of the world, I could find evidence for that in this manifesto, too. Projection is a hell of a drug.

 

Quote

2.  So what?  The point is that clearly this is one of his primary motives (if he truly wrote this)...so why is everyone here instead guessing that it's due to video games, guns, etc, instead? 

 

Trying to figure out why a minuscule but not insignificant portion of the population reaches such a level of madness as is required to push a man (seems that women are almost immune to this disease) to walk into a public place and spray shoppers or students or revelers with bullets is a worthy line of inquiry. 

 

Quote

3.  Actually he sounds like a millennial with some views all over the map...primarily, but not just alt-Right.

 

Ok. I am really trying to be polite. But some sternness is necessary. Here goes:

 

NO, HE DOES NOT "SOUND LIKE A MILLENNIAL." HE IS A SICKO WHO DEVOTED SEVERAL PAGES OF TEXT TO DETAILING A PLAN TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE AND TO EVEN FANTASIZE IN VIVID DETAIL ABOUT THE TYPES OF INTERNAL DAMAGE THAT DIFFERENT BULLETS WOULD INFLICT UPON HIS VICTIMS. HE IS A OFF THE FUCKING RADAR, LOST THE PLOT, MAD. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF HARD IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THE BOY WHO WROTE THAT PAPER AND IT COMES ACROSS AS SANE AND VALID TO YOU.

 

Quote

4.  Don't shoot the messenger.  I merely posted his (alleged) essay to START the conversation from his own (alleged) words - instead of from random, irrelevant speculation.

5.  No, only guys here like voidisyinyang, Taomeow, & myself really understand the FULL (& ongoing) SCOPE & global impact of Christian colonialism - especially in comparison to the world's holistic, aboriginal cultures & native ecosystems that it destroyed.  Christian colonialism to me is not just some historical European imperialism with its primary relevance today in resulting race relations...but the complete subjugation and supplanting of ecospiritual, animate Nature with artificial, mechanizing/digitizing/AI, inanimate technology (going against the Dao) in every aspect of its unustainable lifestyle/culture/religion that they've spread all over the entire planet. 

 

There are important criticisms to be levied against the many destructive tendencies that have been adopted by certain deranged people and institutions who operate under the banner of Christianity, for sure. But you are taking an extreme, half-blind position. It is extremely easy to find Christians who are the exact opposite of what you describe. Beware projection, again.

 

Quote

But speaking of "mental illness"...let's not also forget this:

 

 

This JPEG doesn't stand up to more than ten seconds of half-assed critical thinking.

 

Did you post it as a joke or do you seriously find this stuff compelling? 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Walker

[Earl Grey]

9 hours ago, Walker said:

 

I'm sorry, but in the modern world, to various degrees we are all unheard and lack healthy outlets to express our deepest concerns. For a great many people all of over the world, the suppression they face is extreme and comprehensive. 

 

Yet most of these people manage to avoid walking to the supermarket and murdering dozens of people. 

 

Frankly, I think you are walking a weird line of apologism for a behavior which has absolutely no excuse. Again, that behavior is: going to the supermarket and shooting people. 

 

Your "PLAY DUMB" and "DEFLECT" also imply a "them" that acts with intention, agency, and clarity.

 

Most people are really just muddling through. Even we highly "awake" Dao Bummers aren't really sure what the "actual topics" are. 

 

 

He said the reason that the Native Americans were decimated is that they did not appreciate the threat they faced and failed to defend themselves.

 

Ahistorical nonsense. 

 

 

Yes, he does notice that. Then he concludes that the white Americans he identifies with will not change, and on the basis of this conclusion decides that the solution is to reduce the population and stop immigration. His mass murder, he says, will help further that goal.

 

First of all, his craziness and stupidity are so massive as to defy classification.

 

But if classification is necessary, then this is probably what is called "eco-fascism," a new and unfortunate buzzword to add to the mix of unfortunate buzzwords.

 

 

Where did he say that in his manifesto?

 

 

Sigh, I am neither proud nor ashamed to say that a few years ago when I was laid up in bed with a back injury I let a friend of mine who is sure about all these alien conspiracies give me a USB card full of what, he assured me, was uncontrovertible evidence that we're being colonized by ETs, etc.

 

I watched a dozen hours or more of the stuff while laid up.

 

It was highly entertaining codswallop. (I'm not saying there aren't aliens and that they don't come here but I've seen the "evidence" and what I can say is that I anybody who tells me s/he knows how the Zerbatookigranaokzivijibbians from Planet Chupacabras secretly invented Barbie Dolls to brainwash us all into plastiforming our bodies so that they can mate with us without being grossed out by our jumbly human genitals and musty pubic hairs or whatever is cray-cray fa sho-sho)

 

You project your proto-religious belief in aliens ruling the world onto this killer's manifesto, and you invariably get what you want to see.

 

If I was convinced that Zeus or the Spaghetti Monster was behind the problems of the world, I could find evidence for that in this manifesto, too. Projection is a hell of a drug.

 

 

Trying to figure out why a minuscule but not insignificant portion of the population reaches such a level of madness as is required to push a man (seems that women are almost immune to this disease) to walk into a public place and spray shoppers or students or revelers with bullets is a worthy line of inquiry. 

 

 

Ok. I am really trying to be polite. But some sternness is necessary. Here goes:

 

NO, HE DOES NOT "SOUND LIKE A MILLENNIAL." HE IS A SICKO WHO DEVOTED SEVERAL PAGES OF TEXT TO DETAILING A PLAN TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE AND TO EVEN FANTASIZE IN VIVID DETAIL ABOUT THE TYPES OF INTERNAL DAMAGE THAT DIFFERENT BULLETS WOULD INFLICT UPON HIS VICTIMS. HE IS A OFF THE FUCKING RADAR, LOST THE PLOT, MAD. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF HARD IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THE BOY WHO WROTE THAT PAPER AND IT COMES ACROSS AS SANE AND VALID TO YOU.

 

 

There are important criticisms to be levied against the many destructive tendencies that have been adopted by certain deranged people and institutions who operate under the banner of Christianity, for sure. But you are taking an extreme, half-blind position. It is extremely easy to find Christians who are the exact opposite of what you describe. Beware projection, again.

 

 

This JPEG doesn't stand up to more than ten seconds of half-assed critical thinking.

 

Did you post it as a joke or do you seriously find this stuff compelling? 

 

Fantastic, good sir, bravo in your rebuttal. 

 

I would like to add something here from the NYT that I only read yesterday since I get the international edition, not the domestic edition, so many articles for my print edition are later by a few days. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/opinion/mass-shootings-mental-health.html

 

Mental health isn't the issue, it's hate and access to arms, as well as an enabling community, which, in this case, are the weirdoes from 8chan and other sites that really make you question what bowels they spawned from to inspire such tempestuous children of Hate and Bigotry. 

 

By saying it's mental health, it worsens the mental health stigma and ignores how societal factors come into play affecting someone and influencing them. No care and a "sweep it under the rug" approach that means nobody is interested in paying attention to someone when many signs are there. You don't do it by locking people up or saying they're retarded--you can do it by asking them, "Are you okay?" and being persistent without being a pest. And it's not just one person, it's a community effort. But the communities we have these days are more often virtual communities that cause us to search for like-minded individuals instead of the kind that correct behaviors. If there's any correcting done now, it's naming and shaming, which actually reinforces bad behavior since it dehumanizes someone rather than calling them in to have a friendly chat. 

 

Anyway, Gendao can project all he wants, but if he does, he is no better than the colonialists who projected their view that they knew what was best for the countries they entered, as an old anthropological joke where a group of researches were told by the subjects they were studying, "Enough about you, let's talk about me" in reference to how most analysis of cultural groups speaks more about the observer than the observed. Expanding upon that, having all sorts of weird pseudoscience conspiracies and projecting them as the answer to all the world's problems shows a serious problem with listening because people who have all the answers don't need and don't want to hear anything but the sound of their own voice and their own perceived brilliance.

 

Now to make sure the above paragraph doesn't convey that this whole post is purely an attack in Gendao (it's not, but he does sound rather absurd with the nonsense he keeps posting), one thing I will convey is that the people who need help are the ones who don't realize that they do, and this is the importance of communities.

 

Like in a martial lineage, I was told that the pillars of a good tradition are 1) good lineage, 2) good system, 3) good teacher, 4) good community, 5) good student. If we translate this, we can say in non-martial terms for an individual to be okay with themselves and the universe that they need 1) a good family, 2) a good set of values and principles, 3) good teachers in the form of mentors who can be big brothers and sisters, parents, cool uncles, and counselors, 4) a supportive community that doesn't just acknowledge their presence but actively participates in their life, and 5) their own effort to better themselves. 

 

Where did I see this? Believe it or not, in Tanzania where I lived, in the remote villages. I saw it in social enterprise projects in Sri Lanka as women created their own ad hoc groups to steer children away from hate and conflict while teaching them values and life skills such as weaving and agriculture. I saw it in the Philippines. These were not top-down instructions from some NGO or the Peace Corps, but community-led by people who were given a little inspiration and some money to think outside of the box, and the respective groups from UNICEF to WorldVision simply had an advisory role. 

 

The fact that a former First World country like the US still can't get its act together and maintain the community essence as people wall themselves off in their conspiracies and consumerism is why I choose not to live there due to how people in the Global South I've worked with and worked for in the rural areas show that they want to succeed together. It has nothing to do with colonialism and David Icke theories. This is because people have forgotten how to connect with one another, and the most passionate feelings that come fast are anger and hate rather than the ones that take time to build. 

 

If we took the time to watch out and stand by others, who knows? We might not have the bullshit of mass shootings, but this is just my guess from my work. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Earl Grey

[dawei]

On 8/7/2019 at 4:37 AM, gendao said:

What would actually work is addressing all their gripes and concerns with better answers and dialogue...instead of just suppressing them and leaving them feeling unheard with no healthy outlet.  Problem is...the Left/Right colonialists DON'T have real answers to this, as they are all still within the same mental colonialist paradigm, themselves.  Which is why they both want to just avoid the actual topics, PLAY DUMB, and DEFLECT to vague generalities...

 

But I don't think the shooter(s) want to show a solution as much as they likely want to be 'heard' in some cases; particularly those who wrote a manifesto.   

 

On 8/7/2019 at 6:29 AM, Apech said:

But it is true that someone who is alienated from society is more likely to go right than left - because the left emphasises society, inclusion and the rest.

 

What needs to be addressed is why young men get to the point where they can justify to themselves mass murder - how does that fall occur - what are the real causes and conditions. 

 

I've been mulling this over and not sure it is just alienation as their act is a kind of final alienation (most understand they will die by doing what they are doing).  I think there is some kind of final act that says to the world (or locally), "you're going to hell in a hand basket and I'm done seeing it and everyone doing nothing about it".    But your question remains: how does that fall occur? Why is the fact of this idea (which many likely think) pushes them over the edge to killing others (and themself), as they could just kill themselves?  So dying alone is not enough of a message?

 

On 8/8/2019 at 4:32 AM, Apech said:

I have to confess that when I see a post like the one from @gendao above I never ever read them because they are copy pasted graphs and graphics / text and so on.  I like to read what people think - how they develop their ideas - how they are feeling about something cos then I can respond if I feel I have something to say.  I don't really care if I agree with them provided they are being genuine and thoughtful.

 

In this case, I agree with his attempt to try and talk about some of it as you are.

 

Quote

 

Is it too naive to think that perhaps if the shooters had had people who respected them and listened to them in their lives they wouldn't have been shooters?  That they might have been turned back from extreme views?  Or am I just being a liberal lefty wishy washy type of human?

 

Group hug

 

On 8/12/2019 at 3:39 AM, gendao said:

Well again, based on the facts - alt-right ideology IS THE PRIME POLITICAL MOTIVATION/INTENT for most all of these domestic spree shooters lately.  Simply blaming it on guns, mental illness, video games, or drugs is pure deflection and denialism!

Crusius was also inspired by the Christchurch shooter's (Brenton Tarrant) manifesto - The Great Replacement.  Which vaguely rambles around a lot but seems to focus on anti-immigrant, ethno-nationalist preservation of the White race?  (Although I am then confused by his logo which includes anti-imperialism, environmentalism, protection of heritage & culture, etc...all of which were extreme and intentional casualties of the Christian colonialist war on the rest of the planet for the past 6 centuries.  So, he is wanting to preserve the same culture...that has been the most antithetical to many of his big, societal goals...WTH? )

 

Yes, one single label isn't enough to describe this guy.  I think he sees no end in the insanity going on and this is his parting way of saying so.  

Edited August 13, 2019 by dawei

[gendao]

On 8/12/2019 at 9:15 PM, Walker said:

Frankly, I think you are walking a weird line of apologism for a behavior which has absolutely no excuse. Again, that behavior is: going to the supermarket and shooting people. 

First of all, his craziness and stupidity are so massive as to defy classification.

But if classification is necessary, then this is probably what is called "eco-fascism," a new and unfortunate buzzword to add to the mix of unfortunate buzzwords.

Where did he say that in his manifesto?

You project your proto-religious belief in aliens ruling the world onto this killer's manifesto, and you invariably get what you want to see.

Trying to figure out why a minuscule but not insignificant portion of the population reaches such a level of madness as is required to push a man (seems that women are almost immune to this disease) to walk into a public place and spray shoppers or students or revelers with bullets is a worthy line of inquiry. 

NO, HE DOES NOT "SOUND LIKE A MILLENNIAL." HE IS A SICKO WHO DEVOTED SEVERAL PAGES OF TEXT TO DETAILING A PLAN TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE AND TO EVEN FANTASIZE IN VIVID DETAIL ABOUT THE TYPES OF INTERNAL DAMAGE THAT DIFFERENT BULLETS WOULD INFLICT UPON HIS VICTIMS. HE IS A OFF THE FUCKING RADAR, LOST THE PLOT, MAD. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF HARD IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THE BOY WHO WROTE THAT PAPER AND IT COMES ACROSS AS SANE AND VALID TO YOU.

There are important criticisms to be levied against the many destructive tendencies that have been adopted by certain deranged people and institutions who operate under the banner of Christianity, for sure. But you are taking an extreme, half-blind position. It is extremely easy to find Christians who are the exact opposite of what you describe. Beware projection, again.

Well, he is complaining about many of the problems actually caused by Christian/exo-colonialism (genocide and replacement of all native peoples, plants, wildlife, etc with colonialists and all their artificial technology)...but just isn't deeply woke enough to realize it yet.

You also need to check your blood pressure.  His manifesto is like any op-ed, of which anyone may agree and disagree with it in parts.  Whether or not he was violent really doesn't change the validity/invalidity of any of his points.

But funny, when Christian colonialists kill others in their long history of imperialist perpetual warfare - they are honored as war heroes, not "mentally-ill sickos."  So, who do you think is the real inspiration/role models/justification for these shooters?

On 8/12/2019 at 10:35 PM, Earl Grey said:

Fantastic, good sir, bravo in your rebuttal.

Mental health isn't the issue, it's hate and access to arms, as well as an enabling community, which, in this case, are the weirdoes from 8chan and other sites that really make you question what bowels they spawned from to inspire such tempestuous children of Hate and Bigotry.

Anyway, Gendao can project all he wants, but if he does, he is no better than the colonialists who projected their view that they knew what was best for the countries they entered, as an old anthropological joke where a group of researches were told by the subjects they were studying, "Enough about you, let's talk about me" in reference to how most analysis of cultural groups speaks more about the observer than the observed. Expanding upon that, having all sorts of weird pseudoscience conspiracies and projecting them as the answer to all the world's problems shows a serious problem with listening because people who have all the answers don't need and don't want to hear anything but the sound of their own voice and their own perceived brilliance.

Now to make sure the above paragraph doesn't convey that this whole post is purely an attack in Gendao (it's not, but he does sound rather absurd with the nonsense he keeps posting), one thing I will convey is that the people who need help are the ones who don't realize that they do, and this is the importance of communities.

Like in a martial lineage, I was told that the pillars of a good tradition are 1) good lineage, 2) good system, 3) good teacher, 4) good community, 5) good student. If we translate this, we can say in non-martial terms for an individual to be okay with themselves and the universe that they need 1) a good family, 2) a good set of values and principles, 3) good teachers in the form of mentors who can be big brothers and sisters, parents, cool uncles, and counselors, 4) a supportive community that doesn't just acknowledge their presence but actively participates in their life, and 5) their own effort to better themselves. 

Where did I see this? Believe it or not, in Tanzania where I lived, in the remote villages. I saw it in social enterprise projects in Sri Lanka as women created their own ad hoc groups to steer children away from hate and conflict while teaching them values and life skills such as weaving and agriculture. I saw it in the Philippines. These were not top-down instructions from some NGO or the Peace Corps, but community-led by people who were given a little inspiration and some money to think outside of the box, and the respective groups from UNICEF to WorldVision simply had an advisory role. 

The fact that a former First World country like the US still can't get its act together and maintain the community essence as people wall themselves off in their conspiracies and consumerism is why I choose not to live there due to how people in the Global South I've worked with and worked for in the rural areas show that they want to succeed together. It has nothing to do with colonialism and David Icke theories. This is because people have forgotten how to connect with one another, and the most passionate feelings that come fast are anger and hate rather than the ones that take time to build.

I was respecting your request not to quote or message you...yet you insist on continually referring to me!  Now look, I do have a right to defend my position.  But, you are actually agreeing with my points.  Like, it's not just a mental health issue...

And then you act surprised when communities that work most functionally are found in the remote, rural, "backwater" areas that are least living the colonialist lifestyle?  Lol, that's not counterintuitive buddy, you just verified my thesis!

But instead of WORKING where this planet ACTUALLY needs help/conversion the most (urbanized, Christian colonialist meccas)...you instead fled to these tiny remaining pockets of resistance to proselytize your Christian colonialist "faith" and convert them - to what you just fled, lol.

How about trying to convert an urbanite New Yorker to reforesting, living off the land, and squat-shitting to reduce their 24-acre/125-lb daily footprint, instead? Can you propose a Peace Corps program to do that?

On 8/13/2019 at 6:50 AM, dawei said:

But I don't think the shooter(s) want to show a solution as much as they likely want to be 'heard' in some cases; particularly those who wrote a manifesto.   

Yes, one single label isn't enough to describe this guy.  I think he sees no end in the insanity going on and this is his parting way of saying so.  

Well, that's exactly why I labeled him as a "millennial."  Because their generation has a timely new mix of pressing political concerns.  So while much of Crusius's manifesto does fall into the stock alt/far-Right camp...he also recognizes universal problems like Americanism and corporatism destroying the environment, automation imperiling jobs, etc. - that have been more popular liberal or indy talking points lately.  So, millennials of different stripes are now seeing some of the same dots...but just lack the unifying ideology to really connect them all.  Which is why these shooters end up in logical non sequiturs of wanting to desperately preserve the same culture that has been most responsible for many of the biggest global problems they are now witnessing, lol!  Because the existing political landscape lacks a super-ideology based upon a greater paradigm that addresses all this coherently...which is what I've been proposing!

Edited January 21, 2020 by gendao

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, gendao said:

Well, he is complaining about many of the problems actually caused by Christian/exo-colonialism (genocide and replacement of all native peoples, plants, wildlife, etc with colonialists and all their artificial technology)...but just isn't deeply woke enough to realize it yet.

You also need to check your blood pressure.  His manifesto is like any op-ed, of which anyone may agree and disagree with it in parts.  Whether or not he was violent really doesn't change the validity/invalidity of any of his points.

But funny, when Christian colonialists kill others in their long history of imperialist perpetual warfare - they are honored as war heroes, not "mentally-ill sickos."  So, who do you think is the real inspiration/role models/justification for these shooters?

I was respecting your request not to quote or message you...yet you insist on continually referring to me!  Now look, I do have a right to defend my position.  But, you are actually agreeing with my points.  Like, it's not just a mental health issue...

And then you act surprised when communities that work most functionally are found in the remote, rural, "backwater" areas that are least living the colonialist lifestyle?  Lol, that's not counterintuitive buddy, you just verified my thesis!

But instead of WORKING where this planet ACTUALLY needs help/conversion the most (urbanized, Christian colonialist meccas)...you instead fled to these tiny remaining pockets of resistance to proselytize your Christian colonialist "faith" and convert them too - to what you just fled, lol.

How about trying to convert an urbanite New Yorker to reforesting, living off the land, and squat-shitting to reduce their 24-acre/125-lb daily footprint, instead? Can you propose a Peace Corps program to do that?

Well, that's exactly why I labeled him as a "millennial."  Because their generation has a timely new mix of pressing political concerns.  So while much of Crusius's manifesto does fall into the stock alt/far-Right camp...he also recognizes universal problems like Americanism and corporatism destroying the environment, automation imperiling jobs, etc. - that have been more popular liberal or indy talking points lately.  So, millennials of different stripes are now seeing some of the same dots...but just lack the unifying ideology to really connect them all.  Which is why these shooters end up in logical non sequiturs of wanting to desperately preserve the same culture that has been most responsible for many of the biggest global problems they are now witnessing, lol!  Because the existing political landscape lacks a super-ideology based upon a greater paradigm that addresses all this coherently...which is what I've been proposing!

 

Oh like you respected me while insulting me when I mentioned I was in the Peace Corps or worked for NGOs while showing you have ZERO LIFE EXPERIENCE with the things you go on endless diatribes about in every thread you plague?

 

Once again demonstrating the inability to think outside your paradigm and no originality.

 

Seems like you’ve never been educated or left your hometown, let alone done anything but read tabloids and shout at the television.

 

I wonder how you’d survive if you were ever dumped in the middle of another country and preached your morbid drivel because you sound like a guy who thinks he knows more about a country than locals from watching National Geographic on your friend’s couch and insists the locals know nothing because they’re colonized.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Earl Grey]

8 hours ago, thelerner said:

<wait, why are we discussing this on the mass shooting thread??

<seems like it should have its own thread.>

 

On the one hand, discussing China and capitalism has its merits because people from what I gather are assuming mass shootings are seemingly unique to the US, but this is not true at all, even before the New Zealand attacks. 

 

On the other hand, trying to connect it with all sorts of reasons outside of what's been studied while scapegoating everything from video games to history and then tying them to alien colonization conspiracies aren't helping resolve the main issue. The main issue is why these continue to happen and how people still seem to think that they are effective as a message, for they are are form of domestic terrorism as an op-ed in the NYT said. The same op-ed claimed that if the gunmen are treated the same way as ISIS fighters are, then perhaps there might be different prevention measures and results. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Earl Grey

[sean]

Hope no one minds, I split the communist revolution stuff into a new topic:

 

Sean

 

[gendao]

On 8/14/2019 at 12:26 AM, Earl Grey said:

On the other hand, trying to connect it with all sorts of reasons outside of what's been studied while scapegoating everything from video games to history and then tying them to alien colonization conspiracies aren't helping resolve the main issue. The main issue is why these continue to happen and how people still seem to think that they are effective as a message, for they are are form of domestic terrorism as an op-ed in the NYT said. The same op-ed claimed that if the gunmen are treated the same way as ISIS fighters are, then perhaps there might be different prevention measures and results. 

Lol, it's really hard to germinate seeds in dead hardpan...but here's another one:

 

Ever wonder why tinfoil hatters believe there is a planetary agenda implemented by "elites?"  Why are they even called "elites?"  And why is the Jewish God also named El, and his sons, Elohim?

Quote

To the ancient Mesopotamians, their supreme god was known as Anu (Sumerian: AN Cuneiform: 𒀭 ).  His children were called Anunna. The Akkadians added -ki (meaning “Earth”, or “under”). As with many preceding cultures, the first letter in a culture’s alphabet often represented their supreme god, as seen with the letter aleph (Canaanite: 𐤀, Hebrew: אֱ), or alpha (Greek as in Alpha and Omega). The “offspring of Anu” (Mesopotamian) eventually translated to “Children of El (𐤀𐩴)” in Canaanite culture. The Israelites also adopted El, as God, to become Elohim אֱלֹהִים “sons of God” (ie. Gen 6:4).

And why is our planet called Earth?  Oh, I guess it's just a coinkydink that El's son was named Ea (also Enki) - and lorded over this planet's surface...!  Yep, none of this was taught in your colonialist reeducation camps...so must be irrelevant and no point in ever questioning them, yourself!  It's all just a dream, go back to sleep!
 

And well, when angry, right wing White males do it...they are given every individual excuse in the book of mental illness, video games, alienation, etc...except their actual driving ideology (even if clearly stated in a manifesto).  As has been evident in this entire thread of denial and apologism.
Whereas if Muslims do it...then they are immediately branded terrorists and "Islam is a disease that we need to vaccinate against," lol!

Edited August 16, 2019 by gendao

[Earl Grey]

9 minutes ago, gendao said:

Lol, it's really hard to germinate seeds in dead hardpan...but here's another one:

 

Ever wonder why tinfoil hatters believe there is a planetary agenda implemented by "elites?"  Why are they even called "elites?"  And why is the Jewish God also named El, and his sons Elohim?

And why is our planet called Earth?  Oh, I guess it's just a coinkydink that El's son was named Ea (also Enki) - and lorded over this planet's surface...  Yep, none of this was taught in your colonialist reeducation camps...so must be irrelevant and no point in ever questioning them, yourself!
 

And well, when angry, right wing White males do it...they are given every individual excuse in the book of mental illness, video games, alienation, etc...except their actual driving ideology (even if clearly stated in a manifesto).  As has been evident in this entire thread of denial and apologism.
Whereas if Muslims do it...then they are immediately branded terrorists and "Islam is a disease that we need to vaccinate against," lol!

 

It is a truth universally acknowledged that repeating the same nonsense again and again makes the speaker feel more authoritative on matters he forces himself into, whether it is politics or proctology, and in doing so, feels he has accumulated more prestige because he has managed to allege the connection between seemingly unrelated fields through the sheer force of his own stubborn certainty. 

 

We can rest assured that people with mental health problems won't necessarily take up arms and focus their crosshairs on the masses, but they will incessantly post online all the abortive filth spawned from the barren wasteland of their mediocre minds, and Gendao is a fine example of this. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Taomeow]

10 minutes ago, gendao said:

Ever wonder why tinfoil hatters believe there is a planetary agenda implemented by "elites?"  Why are they even called "elites?"  And why is the Jewish God also named El, and his sons, Elohim?

 

Ah, folk etymology.  How often you make those of my professors of comparative linguistics who are still living come close to dying of laughter, and those who are already deceased to roll in their graves.  

 

Ever wondered why they are even called "elections?" Well, both "elites" and "elections" originate from the same Latin word eligere -- to choose.  Oops... 

 

I guess electricity that powers your computer was also produced by the Jewish god.  No wait, the electric god was Zeus... 

That Z though... an undeniable code for Zionism, so this so called Greek god was really just another one of those!.. 

[gendao]

8 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Ah, folk etymology.  How often you make those of my professors of comparative linguistics who are still living come close to dying of laughter, and those who are already deceased to roll in their graves.  

 

Ever wondered why they are even called "elections?" Well, both "elites" and "elections" originate from the same Latin word eligere -- to choose.  Oops... 

 

I guess electricity that powers your computer was also produced by the Jewish god.  No wait, the electric god was Zeus... 

That Z though... an undeniable code for Zionism, so this so called Greek god was really just another one of those!.. 

Ah, and where did eligere come from?  If you don't know, then you've proven nothing, dear.

Quote

the common EL-ite ELder royal pharaonic bloodline color parapsychology of PURP-EL and GOLD, which are the royal colors of the ancient Canaa Phoenicians who were known as the the "PURPLE PEOPLE" because that is the meaning of the word Phoenicia, whose chief deity was EL, (the supreme bull god of the Bible from ancient Byblos) who was the Greek TITAN Kronos, who became the Roman god SATURN.

Quote

In northwest Semitic use, El was both a generic word for any god and the special name or title of a particular god who was distinguished from other gods as being "the god".  El is listed at the head of many pantheons.
In some inscriptions, the name ’Ēl qōne ’arṣ meaning "ʼĒl creator of Earth" appears
For the Canaanites and the ancient Levantine region as a whole, Ēl or Il was the supreme god, the father of mankind and all creatures. He also fathered many gods, most importantly Hadad, Yam, and Mot, each sharing similar attributes to the Greco-Roman gods: Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades respectively.
Ēl is called again and again Tôru ‘Ēl ("Bull Ēl" or "the bull god"). He is bātnyu binwāti ("Creator of creatures"), ’abū banī ’ili ("father of the gods"), and ‘abū ‘adami ("father of man"). He is qāniyunu ‘ôlam ("creator eternal"), the epithet ‘ôlam appearing in Hebrew form in the Hebrew name of God ’ēl ‘ôlam "God Eternal" in Genesis 21.33.
"El" (Father of Heaven / Saturn) and his major son: "Hadad" (Father of Earth / Jupiter), are symbolized both by the bull, and both wear bull horns on their headdresses.
El is a generic word for god that could be used for any god, including Hadad, Moloch, or Yahweh.
Before El's revelation with the name of Yahweh, it is said in Genesis 14:18–20 that Abraham accepted the blessing of El
It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the "God of Abraham"...

And electricity was from a Phoenician word, elēkrŏn, meaning 'shining light.'  Whether that may or may not have derived from El, is also unstated.

Edited August 16, 2019 by gendao

[ralis]

Right on the famous Santa Fe Plaza a gun toting Trumpster has been intimidating tourists and locals. This weekend is Indian Market which is one of the largest art markets in the world and I am certain he will be there making a statement. Despicable!! 

 

https://www.sfreporter.com/news/2019/08/14/trump-inspired-hate-hits-the-plaza/

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by ralis

[Taomeow]

7 hours ago, gendao said:

Ah, and where did eligere come from?  If you don't know, then you've proven nothing, dear.

 

 

Honey...  Oh, sugar, sugar...  

 

 

[gendao]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:11 PM, ralis said:

New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch which is a right wing news organization. The article is based once again on reefer madness with no scientific basis. 

And now...survey says!

Quote

Suspected Dayton shooter had cocaine, alcohol and anti-anxiety drugs in system, coroner says
The alleged shooter who killed nine in Dayton, Ohio, was found to have cocaine, alcohol and anti-anxiety drugs in his system, according to the Montgomery County Coroner. 
A pipe device containing cocaine was also found in the pocket of Connor Betts, the coroner, Dr. Kent E. Harshbarger, announced on Thursday.

So, is Trumpuppet Miranda Devine now going to write articles blaming these shootings on coke madness, alcohol madness, or psych med madness...instead of "reefer madness" - which he had none of? 

Edited August 17, 2019 by gendao

[thelerner]

In the minds of most of the shooters they're doing something heroic.  While all cultures celebrate heroes, in America we do it constantly and celebrate the anti-hero as well; the lone wolf, who plays by there own rules.  My generation had Charles Bronson and Clint Eastwood, even James Bond, all murdering the bad guys with a witty quip. 

 

Getting the girl and acclaim of the unseen watching crowd.  Getting things done when the 'Man' says no.  Rebels for the cause of greater justice.  

 

It always amazing to see Miyazaki's Japanese anime (Spirited Away, Howls Moving Castle..) where the hero is genteel, plays by the rules even when the game is stacked against them.  Wins the respect of there enemies rather then kills them. 

 

For us it demands we beware of Ends Justify the Means thinking.  Think very carefully before any action that will hurt others, because once you knock down a karmic domino, you can't know what other things will fall.