Proposed simplification of forums

[Zork]

Just now, rene said:

 

Good luck with that line.

Good luck with that attitude!?!?

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Zork said:

On the contrary, New Age, is an umbrella term that encompasses true and tried systems and crackpot theories and novelty non-effective systems created for marketing purposes. Shouldn't we differentiate? All systems out there aren't equal and the line should be drawn somewhere if this site attempts to give out information to people during their "baby steps" in esoteric systems.

 

And who is going to define the standard of what is effective and what is not?  As an example, Taoism has not generated any immortals in thousands of years, and Manktak Chia stuff just makes everyone ill, so we should probably ban all of that Taoist stuff...

 

This place is seems to be going more and more intolerant every second.  Let's see... Since people want to ban moms, maybe we better ban all dads too, don't want to discriminate...

 

[rene]

^^ that.

[Apech]

"Manktak Chia stuff just makes everyone ill"

 

-

[Zork]

11 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

And who is going to define the standard of what is effective and what is not?  As an example, Taoism has not generated any immortals in thousands of years, and Manktak Chia stuff just makes everyone ill, so we should probably ban all of that Taoist stuff...

 

This place is seems to be going more and more intolerant every second.  Let's see... Since people want to ban moms, maybe we better ban all dads too, don't want to discriminate...

 

Taoism indeed hasn't produced any immortals that we know of in recent years.

But the potential is there.

New Age systems which sprung from literally nowhere do not have the potential to produce immortals and they haven't been tried nor have been created for that purpose.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Zork

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, Zork said:

Taoism indeed hasn't produced any immortals that we know of in recent years.

But the potential is there.

New Age systems which sprung from literally nowhere do not have the potential to produce immortals and they haven't been tried nor have been created for that purpose.

 

 

The problem isn't that there is no differentiation but that once you decide to filter and edit then someone has to do it - and thence you get personal bias ... this system good, that system bad ... and DBs has never been like that - so unless it is going to radically change we can continue to exist without dictatorship.

 

 

[Earl Grey]

3 minutes ago, Zork said:

Taoism indeed hasn't produced any immortals that we know of in recent years.

But the potential is there.

New Age systems which sprung from literally nowhere do not have the potential to produce immortals and they haven't been tried nor have been created for that purpose.

 

I will speak of one good thing for New Age systems though in spite of my criticisms: they at the very least introduce people to common vocabulary and interests across paths.

 

Depth, however, is another matter entirely.

 

I do have friends who are New Agers, but for them, they are not interested in depth, they're more interested in spirit work than soul work, and that differentiation is something that isn't even anything I've seen in Taoism, nor is it unique to spiritual paths, but heavily derived from Jungian psychology.

 

Interestingly enough, soul work is more important for the common reason I see people gravitate towards New Age practices: emotional well-being and the innate need for man to find meaning beyond This world and into the arms of their gods. 

 

It's worth repeating: spirit work takes you high (and you experience drug-like highs as well), but you will be like a dandelion in the wind; soul work makes you go deep like a tree rooting before it grows, a foundation as below so above and as above so below.

[Zork]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

The problem isn't that there is no differentiation but that once you decide to filter and edit then someone has to do it - and thence you get personal bias ... this system good, that system bad ... and DBs has never been like that - so unless it is going to radically change we can continue to exist without dictatorship.

 

 

Seriously??? You can't differentiate between scammers like Ausar or xyz Yoga with no prior history in India and Longmenpai or Bon for example? Is it so hard? It isn't so quit making it a big deal.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Zork

[dawei]

15 hours ago, sean said:

 

THE COURTYARD

 

- Welcome! (merges Welcome and Newcomer Corner)
- Discussions On The Way (previously Daoist Discussion)
    - 道家学说
    - Textual Studies (merges Daodejing, Zhuangzi, etc.)
- Vast High Weirdness (😆 still working on this name, previously General Discussion. The word "general" just feels so boring.)
- The Rabbit Hole (merges "The Rabbit Hole", "Off Grid". Basically an off topic forum to talk about whatever, but not an "anything goes")
- Meta-Talk (merges Forum and Tech Support, Moderation Logs, Rules and Use)

 

 

Merging Newcomer Corner implies new topics can be started there, which currently isn't allowed except for MEMBER group.   MEMBER must post their first thread there and after approval is promoted to a group that cannot post in Welcome.  So if you do the merge, check out the group settings to get folks allowed to post (ie: Junior Bum, The Dao Bum).

 

Vast High Weirdness:   Maybe to be parallel to Discussions on the Way... Discussions on Other Traditions.  I know, sounds a bit corny. 

 

15 hours ago, sean said:

PRIVATE GARDENS

 

- Group Studies
- Personal Practice (still has everyone's private subforums under this)
- Gender Gardens
    - Nonbinary (for nonbinary, gender questioning and intersex)
    - Women (for women and female identified)
    - Men (for men and male identified)

- Interviews
- Lending Library
- Local Meetups and Events (merges Local Meetups and Upcoming Events)

 

 

The PPD forum was placed as the last forum because if one is using a phone, you have to scroll down through that vertical long list to see anything below it.  So might want to move that last.   

 

I'd probably put the Gender Gardens first as it is likely used more than the rest (except PPD). 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Zork said:

Seriously??? You can't differentiate between scammers like Ausar or xyz Yoga with no prior history in India and Longmenpai or Bon for example? Is it so hard? It isn't so quit making it a big deal. New Agers just leave! Reddit is waiting for you with open arms!

 

 

Did you read my post?

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Zork said:

Taoism indeed hasn't produced any immortals that we know of in recent years.

But the potential is there.

New Age systems which sprung from literally nowhere do not have the potential to produce immortals and they haven't been tried nor have been created for that purpose.

 

Not correct.  Most taoist systems have been corrupted and the true meaning of teachings like the TTC have been lost. Con men just write books and make up lineage histories to support their cons.  You can easily tell that they have no real juice.

 

Many what you would call "New Age" have really been efforts by higher beings to reintroduce the true teachings that have been corrupted.  They have attempted to help, but the con men and powerful religious establishments make up lies and disparaging labels to keep all of money flowing to them.

 

The only valid test of validity of a system is the actual power that a practitioner has, everything else can be simply meaningless words telling you to breathe backward or forwards...

 

This post is tongue and cheek to make a point.

[Zork]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Did you read my post?

Yes.

[C T]

Calling immortals... step forward please! 

Put to rest all the doubts once and for all

 

[Zork]

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Not correct.  Most taoist systems have been corrupted and the true meaning of teachings like the TTC have been lost.

And you know this how?

5 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Many what you would call "New Age" have really been efforts by higher beings to reintroduce the true teachings that have been corrupted.

That is what reddit is for!

It doesn't concern daoists nor buddhists.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Zork

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, Zork said:

And you know this how?

That is what reddit is for!

It doesn't concern daoists nor buddhists.

 

As I said, the only valid bases for the true capability of a tradition is the relative energy power of their current practitioners.  I can easily tell if someone has any real juice or not. I have discussed this in many threads.  Have you not seen all of the posts and threads warning members where I am too powerful to be allowed to talk to the newbies? 

 

Buddhists have the same problem as taoists.  They have been misled and all of the true knowledge corrupted. The last buddhist with any real juice was Norbu, and he is now gone from the world.  Very sad for all...

 

(Again, this post is for fun as an example of where the bums seems to be headed)

[Zork]

3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

As I said, the only valid bases for the true capability of a tradition is the relative energy power of their current practitioners.  I can easily tell if someone has any real juice or not. I have discussed this in many threads.  Have you not seen all of the posts and threads warning members where I am too powerful to be allowed to talk to the newbies? 

 

Buddhists have the same problem as taoists.  They have been misled and all of the true knowledge corrupted. The last buddhist with any real juice was Norbu, and he is now gone from the world.  Very sad for all...

 

(Again, this post is for fun as an example of where the bums seems to be headed)

That is just your opinion. No facts no nothing. I indirectly ask for proof why you claim that the paths are corrupted and you post nonsense and your opinion.

That is enough proof to prove the opposite of what you claim. Thanks!

[Sebastian]

In my humble opinion, new age, or "old age" doesn't matter. The Truth is ageless. TheDaoBums is about Truth, and hence about the many ways leading there, past and present.

 

You know the saying.... "all roads lead to Rome".... Well, you can trace back all true religions to Tao, even if they have distorted the Truth by adding dogma and cultural color. I mean, all true religions were the result of real Saints gracing our planet. Many years after their passing, we see their blinding white Light through the prism of religion, creating projections of different colors.

 

In my opinion, being a sincere researcher of Truth is not the same as identifying with the lens of one religion and claiming the others don't lead to Tao. It is seeing the original Truth and beauty of each religion. Instead of following the various man-made religions, you follow the Saints from which the various religions were created. You can appreciate the value and teachings of Christianity or the Coran without becoming fanatical about them.

 

And to me, to be a Taoist or a "Man of Tao" is not the same. Jesus, for example, was a "Man of Tao" in my book. According to a contemporary Master, that also disliked the "Taoist Master" moniker people gave him, Master Ni Hua Ching, there is no other being on earth that exemplified Tao in the flesh like this person. Yet he didn't wear a robe and identify as a Taoist priest. He was a teacher of Tao, of Truth, and not a "Taoist" or a member of any institutionalized religion or philosophy which he rejected.

 

That's why I personally welcome diversity here. As researchers of Truth, we can learn from everyone. It's the "DaoBums" or the "TruthBums", not the "TaoistBums". Of course as I write this, I also secretly believe that one cannot possibly achieve enlightenment without reaching Mopai Level 5 ;-)

 

 

1 hour ago, Spotless said:

It is also people into crystals and angels and other things which we may laugh at - but we seem to forget just how laughable are the many religious teachings which nearly all followers toss out as ridiculous even if in reality it means they are not actually believers in the religion they profess to be a part of. Most Christians toss the entire Old Testament off - and something like 60% believe in Reincarnation.

 

I think it's fine to toss out parts of the Bible using common sense and a rational mind, without being diminished in any way in your experience of God, Truth of Tao. You don't need "to believe anything" to rest in Being or Tao or Christ. I know some people toss out the argument that you can only be a Christian if you believe everything in the Bible. This is only operating at the intellectual level. It's fine if people call you Christian or not, that's their projection, and none of our business as a researcher of Truth. I  mean even if you never set foot in a church or read spiritual texts,  your spirit can still be greatly benefited just by the fact Jesus or other Saints lived among us. Isn't not wonderful and inspiring ? Would they force us to believe blindly in various texts if they were here ? I doubt it.

[sean]

Quick thoughts ...

 

"New Age" as the spontaneous modern expression of an archetypal syncretic impulse = 💯. 😎

 

"New Age" in the negative connotation I think refers to a kind of lazy hodgepodging for shallow personal indulgence and without intention for real depth or transformation. A kind of performative spirituality that feels insincere and often intersects with cultural appropriation.

 

Anyway, FWIW this difficulty in arbitrating between "True Daoism™" and any "Discussions Along The Way" was part of my motivation to simply merge the two main forums and let us all be weird in one spot.

 

Sean

 

[Earl Grey]

10 minutes ago, sean said:

Quick thoughts ...

 

"New Age" as the spontaneous modern expression of an archetypal syncretic impulse = 💯. 😎

 

"New Age" in the negative connotation I think refers to a kind of lazy hodgepodging for shallow personal indulgence and without intention for real depth or transformation. A kind of performative spirituality that feels insincere and often intersects with cultural appropriation.

 

Anyway, FWIW this difficulty in arbitrating between "True Daoism™" and any "Discussions Along The Way" was part of my motivation to simply merge the two main forums and let us all be weird in one spot.

 

Sean

 

 

Thank you. 

 

New Agers to me are welcome to come here, so long as they are more of the former, the "spontaneous modern expression of an archetypal syncretic impulse" rather than the latter "shallow personal indulgence without intention for real depth of transformation". 

 

Dialogue is good, but talking over one another and indulging in the authority of one's own words rather than considering what someone says and where it comes from is not so good. 

[liminal_luke]

I suppose we could make a subsection of Discussions On The Way for fools but I don´t think it´d get much traffic.

[Zork]

35 minutes ago, sean said:

"New Age" in the negative connotation I think refers to a kind of lazy hodgepodging for shallow personal indulgence and without intention for real depth or transformation. A kind of performative spirituality that feels insincere and often intersects with cultural appropriation.

That is what i am talking about. Spotless's position that New Age movement is good just because the far-right is fighting it, is superficial.

There is a lot of spiritual crap within the movement and a newcomer with no previous experience has no way of figuring it out.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I for one oppose the idea of a simplification, I don't have time now for a longer and more reasoned discussion, but I did come up with a simple image.  Joni Micthell eloquently lamented the paving of paradise to put a parking lot, I have to ask if someday people will lament that the magical land of Earthsea was bulldozed into a swamp?  That is how I think of Dao Bums as it is now, the magical land of Earthsea where the whole Wisdom of the World is kept and with some easy Island hoping can be found.  Once those islands are gone, they will be almost impossible to replace.

 

ZYD

[OldDog]

Sean,

 

I agree a lot with what Taomeow had to say. I kinda like having the purist area and would not want to see an environment that, even if unintentional, set up for one group to dominate. I suspect that one of the reasons folks come here is to find like minds to share understandings.

 

I typically have found most activity in Daoist Discussion ... though it's been a little thin lately ... and General Discussion, which I think already has the kind of cross pollination you were tying to promote.

 

Two things I would like to see developed/improved are:

 

1. Improved navigational tools. Moving from one area to another without having to backtrack to a common juncture. Individual ability to bookmark locations might help there. Something like that.

 

2. Tighten up rules regarding unacceptable behaviors.  Clear violations subject to escalating disciple rules should be based on how posts are conducted rather than content.

 

Btw .... I assume that forum stats are helping you see where there is activity and where there is not. Not thst stats alone should drive decissions.

 

Thanks for soliciting input.

 

 

[Zork]

17 hours ago, sean said:

Ahh does current search suck? I’ve been meaning to build a custom search engine for this site for ever.

 

Omg yes!

The current search engine is unsatisfactory.

[Taomeow]

46 minutes ago, sean said:

Quick thoughts ...

 

"New Age" as the spontaneous modern expression of an archetypal syncretic impulse = 💯. 😎

 

"New Age" in the negative connotation I think refers to a kind of lazy hodgepodging for shallow personal indulgence and without intention for real depth or transformation. A kind of performative spirituality that feels insincere and often intersects with cultural appropriation.

 

I think the picture of what new age as we inherited it really is is incomplete if, from the early theosophical, jungian, crowlean et al origins one transitions directly to the "lazy hodgepodge" scene of today while unwittingly jumping over the interesting moment in history that took place in between.  To wit, the moment (spanning several decades as it were) when it was identified as weaponizable, co-opted, and weaponized toward subverting, domesticating, discrediting, corrupting or confusing and effectively deactivating actual countercultural political activism of the time. 

 

I tried just now to retrace my search steps of  years ago on the subject of new age connections (and in many instances origins) with Cointelpro, MK-ultra and other mind control programs -- tons of documents have been declassified (not the ones that were reclassified of course)  -- but today's google coughs up a fraction of a percent of what one could find ten years ago on "controversial" subjects, and even what little remains available is now, in its turn, subverted with ideologies that appear to discredit what they're speaking against by being cooky themselves.  So, can't point toward one great reputable source to end all sources to corroborate my assertion, but sharing in case someone might want to look into this venue.  A very useful inquiry IMO for anyone bent on "we won't be fooled again."  Oh, and if the first things you come across in the process of digging up those hidden roots appear ridiculous and dismiss-worthy, please don't stop.  Dig deeper someday, it's worth it.  It's there, I've seen it, I just don't know how to consolidate it into one shocking  "looky here" at this point, the way I was shocked beyond a reasonable doubt myself way back when.