If you want to rotate the moderation...

[cheya]

If you want to rotate the moderation...

someone has to be willing to do it!

 

If you want it to rotate, then be willing to step up. 
Yes, some of the "need to rotate" folks have taken a (short?) turn at it.

I barely lasted a month.

It is a very difficult job.

 

Trying to get new people to volunteer (and stick around)

has been very difficult.

 

Any suggestions for solving that part of the "rotate the mods" equation?

 

[Earl Grey]

7 minutes ago, cheya said:

If you want to rotate the moderation...

someone has to be willing to do it!

 

If you want it to rotate, then be willing to step up. 
Yes, some of the "need to rotate" folks have taken a (short?) turn at it.

I barely lasted a month.

It is a very difficult job.

 

Trying to get new people to volunteer (and stick around)

has been very difficult.

 

Any suggestions for solving that part of the "rotate the mods" equation?

 

 

Open the invitations every quarter. 

 

A lot of people I spoke with would have loved to join the mod team but didn't even know that admin needed more volunteers.

 

I was invited by PM last year and it was already too late for me to join because it was later than when I was willing to commit and I had lost interest then with that team. 

[rene]

Maybe this would be an opportunity to test an AI system.

All Bums would be straw dogs; the only biases in moderating would come from it's own bullshit meter.

[Apech]

15 minutes ago, rene said:

Maybe this would be an opportunity to test an AI system.

All Bums would be straw dogs; the only biases in moderating would come from it's own bullshit meter.

 

 

Yes it's too important to be left to humans.

 

 

[cheya]

I quote myself from back in 2013, from thelerner's thread "Who's interested in becoming a moderator"

Posted May 27, 2013

Here's another aspect of this that I've been chewing on for a long time. Others probably won't see it this way, but here's what I see.

 

Most of the mods have been people who were doing really high quality posting. When they started being mods, their Taoist content posting dropped dramatically. I know they worked hard on the board, devoting many many hours to it, and some in particular often were harrassed by pigheaded souls unhappy with particular decisions who seemed to think that all the mods had to do in life was answer questions and justify decisions. Moderating seemed to take a lot of time in technical or refereeing stuff, leaving mods (a lot!) less time for the juicy content posting they used to do. Finally they resign from modding, and then we don't hear much from them, sometimes for a very long time! That makes me sad! 

 

So I actually DON'T want Lerner and Zerostao to be mods! 

 

So who could moderate? Picking the most level headed, wise, and mature content posters may help the board with moderation, but I think it lowers the level of content posting, and even ends up driving these people away after the board "uses them up." Picking people who like to post a lot but don't seem to add much to content doesn't seem likely to raise either the moderating standard or the content standard... and certainly we don't want folks who tend to be contentious to be mods! If modding the board uses up all the best content posters, what happens when we run out of willing people? Do we need to pay someone to moderate? Of course then we'd all have to pay to play, or at least to post.

 

Does anybody else see this as a problem? 

 

Or maybe there's some way to have moderator helpers, a way to take some of the load off the mods. More appreciation would probably help, and maybe even more pressure on pigheaded (sorry, that's the word that keeps coming up for me) folks who can't just surrender to the fact that thetaobums IS a sort of dictatorship, in that we are having a conversation in "Sean's drawing room", not in city hall! It is NOT a democracy. So get over it!

 

I don't have the computer system, tech skills, or the time to help with modding, and frankly, I'd rather post content than try to make decisions about okay vs not okay. But I do really appreciate the time and energy many good mods have put into making TTB the great board that it is, and I'd like to see us find ways to ease the toll the job seems to take on these generous people.

[cheya]

And here's a link to the whole thread, which might be useful for people to read as we reexamine moderation staffing...

 

 

[Apech]

The sad fact is that dawei and other admins did ask for volunteers - most people don't want to do it (very wisely) and many others don't last very long.  I know it may be hard for people to believe but it is a tough and thankless job - you get shit thrown at you from members, other mods and even the owner (occasionally  ).  Its easy to say rotation - but you need a good pool of people to draw from and they just aren't there.

[ilumairen]

34 minutes ago, Apech said:

The sad fact is that dawei and other admins did ask for volunteers - most people don't want to do it (very wisely) and many others don't last very long.  I know it may be hard for people to believe but it is a tough and thankless job - you get shit thrown at you from members, other mods and even the owner (occasionally  ).  Its easy to say rotation - but you need a good pool of people to draw from and they just aren't there.

 

He's directly asked me, and casually mentioned it more than once. I repeatedly declined. 

 

At this point, I doubt I want to see the "behind the scenes" discussions as they relate to me and the perceptions of others... sometimes it seems better not to know imo.

[Apech]

7 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

He's directly asked me, and casually mentioned it more than once. I repeatedly declined. 

 

At this point, I doubt I want to see the "behind the scenes" discussions as they relate to me and the perceptions of others... sometimes it seems better not to know imo.

 

 

There's only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about.

 

[Earl Grey]

58 minutes ago, cheya said:

I quote myself from back in 2013, from thelerner's thread "Who's interested in becoming a moderator"

Posted May 27, 2013

Here's another aspect of this that I've been chewing on for a long time. Others probably won't see it this way, but here's what I see.

 

Most of the mods have been people who were doing really high quality posting. When they started being mods, their Taoist content posting dropped dramatically. I know they worked hard on the board, devoting many many hours to it, and some in particular often were harrassed by pigheaded souls unhappy with particular decisions who seemed to think that all the mods had to do in life was answer questions and justify decisions. Moderating seemed to take a lot of time in technical or refereeing stuff, leaving mods (a lot!) less time for the juicy content posting they used to do. Finally they resign from modding, and then we don't hear much from them, sometimes for a very long time! That makes me sad! 

 

So I actually DON'T want Lerner and Zerostao to be mods! 

 

So who could moderate? Picking the most level headed, wise, and mature content posters may help the board with moderation, but I think it lowers the level of content posting, and even ends up driving these people away after the board "uses them up." Picking people who like to post a lot but don't seem to add much to content doesn't seem likely to raise either the moderating standard or the content standard... and certainly we don't want folks who tend to be contentious to be mods! If modding the board uses up all the best content posters, what happens when we run out of willing people? Do we need to pay someone to moderate? Of course then we'd all have to pay to play, or at least to post.

 

Does anybody else see this as a problem? 

 

Or maybe there's some way to have moderator helpers, a way to take some of the load off the mods. More appreciation would probably help, and maybe even more pressure on pigheaded (sorry, that's the word that keeps coming up for me) folks who can't just surrender to the fact that thetaobums IS a sort of dictatorship, in that we are having a conversation in "Sean's drawing room", not in city hall! It is NOT a democracy. So get over it!

 

I don't have the computer system, tech skills, or the time to help with modding, and frankly, I'd rather post content than try to make decisions about okay vs not okay. But I do really appreciate the time and energy many good mods have put into making TTB the great board that it is, and I'd like to see us find ways to ease the toll the job seems to take on these generous people.

 

Or we could go with another Platonic ideal of the Philosopher King, the Noble Tyrant who is one who is best suited for the job but doesn't want it, yet takes it because anyone else would be inferior and bring more disaster. They would lead others until someone better comes along and thank them for taking over and relieving them of the burden. 

 

I have pondered being a mod now that the old guard is out as I do not have the good reputation of someone like Taomeow or the levelheadedness of thelerner. But also, frankly I will  say I am not objective, I have a very traditional bent due to my training and the most modern outlook I have is that of an anarchist 1970s punk rocker. 

 

Let the Philosopher King come forward because the job needs to be done, not because they want power, and may he or she wield it responsibly as we give him or her at the very least our gratitude. 

[dawei]

1 hour ago, cheya said:

Most of the mods have been people who were doing really high quality posting. When they started being mods, their Taoist content posting dropped dramatically. I know they worked hard on the board, devoting many many hours to it, and some in particular often were harrassed by pigheaded souls unhappy with particular decisions who seemed to think that all the mods had to do in life was answer questions and justify decisions. Moderating seemed to take a lot of time in technical or refereeing stuff, leaving mods (a lot!) less time for the juicy content posting they used to do. Finally they resign from modding, and then we don't hear much from them, sometimes for a very long time! That makes me sad! 

 

So I actually DON'T want Lerner and Zerostao to be mods! 

 

So who could moderate? Picking the most level headed, wise, and mature content posters may help the board with moderation, but I think it lowers the level of content posting, and even ends up driving these people away after the board "uses them up." Picking people who like to post a lot but don't seem to add much to content doesn't seem likely to raise either the moderating standard or the content standard... and certainly we don't want folks who tend to be contentious to be mods! If modding the board uses up all the best content posters, what happens when we run out of willing people? Do we need to pay someone to moderate? Of course then we'd all have to pay to play, or at least to post.

 

I agree with the challenges you mention; modding is not for everyone (you knew that about yourself and still agreed to give it a try for my sake which I really appreciate).  We've even seen two suspension on moderators so even if their contentiousness is low, modding can raise up issues.  So it can be demanding on the emotions.   So while a volunteer squad sounds good, you have no idea of what can spring out of control among a group who can't agree on action too.   

 

Every rotation, I made different changes to better suit those on staff in order to try and make it less stressful.  Some things work and some don't.   But I would not of traded a single day of working on staff and with staff.  

 

57 minutes ago, Apech said:

The sad fact is that dawei and other admins did ask for volunteers - most people don't want to do it (very wisely) and many others don't last very long.  I know it may be hard for people to believe but it is a tough and thankless job - you get shit thrown at you from members, other mods and even the owner (occasionally  ).  Its easy to say rotation - but you need a good pool of people to draw from and they just aren't there.

 

Agreed... and few know this better than you.  I think you and Thelerner have been on staff the most often (on and off).  You guys never turned me down when I would ask you back for a short bit (as you say the pool was dry).  I very much appreciate that.

[Taomeow]

Catch-22, huh?  Worth brainstorming.

 

Between bad moderatorship and going back to RON JEREMY style unmoderated forum, I'd choose unmoderated forum, even though I was one of the people campaigning for the moderated forum when it was first proposed.  

 

Bad moderatorship is worse because it has vampiric powers.  Yes it does.  It can suck out all life out of a place and puppeteer the pale drained specter that remains into exhibiting a semblance of vital signs, but not keep it alive.

 

Good moderatorship is ideal, of course.   And as any ideal, it doesn't just appear because you want it to, you need to figure out how to create it.  So, I'm all for figuring out.  Maybe finding some incentives for people to rotate in as mods.  Don't know what kind.  Maybe a poll?  Ask people what they would want to get in return for, say, a 6 month commitment (no strings attached, if you want to quit after 6 hours, it's understandable.  I lasted several years on the first-ever mod team, burned out toward the end -- I didn't mention "whateverism" for nothing in at least some of the long-term concierges, guilty as charged).  Find out what can inspire someone toward some community service.  In many religious traditions, "good deeds" for others count as some spiritual capital that can be built, a kind of spiritual credit one gets toward getting richer or at least not bankrupting their good-bad, right-wrong account.  Maybe remind those who do believe in such things (I'm not a disbeliever, at least, though with some caveats) to look at their lives and see if they're currently doing anything like that, spending enough of their time and energy on practical hands-on "deeds" that are their own reward because they are good for others?  And if not, maybe they should -- just in case all those stories about it being necessary for any spiritual growth or at least toward avoiding spiritual or moral degradation have a kernel of truth within them?

 

Or maybe screw that and offer a cash reward?   A gofundme fund for supporting mods with modest cash gifts from the community for their service?  

 

Or...?  Let's brainstorm.          

[Earl Grey]

15 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

Or maybe screw that and offer a cash reward?   A gofundme fund for supporting mods with modest cash gifts from the community for their service?  

 

Payment might be a bad incentive especially as the level of skill is hard to measure. That payment should also in my opinion go to funding the site's costs. 

 

Here's an idea: a volunteer gift drive from members to offer what they can, from donations to even an illustration or calligraphy or free lesson in whatever, or a postcard--whatever, something to show appreciation. I'd offer for example free Akashic readings at the very least and an advanced Zhan Zhuang lesson from Xin Yi Liuhebafa Yi Quan for anyone who does the mod stint if we went this route. 

[rene]

1. You people are making a great case for an AI sheriff - the suggestion was serious.

2. I was the best Mod you ever had. I also was doing it with head injuries, so what does that tell ya.

3. There was something else I was going to say but I don't recall it now. Oh yeah. Stay mindful of what you wish for. You know the rest.

 

[Apech]

We should only moderate for the highest selfless and spiritual purposes ... hang on ... did someone mention cash!!!?!!!!

[rene]

Sigh... no reply or clicks on my looney-tune post??

Youz got no sense of humor, I tell ya.

Understandable, though. Strange waters, these.

[Taomeow]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

We should only moderate for the highest selfless and spiritual purposes ... hang on ... did someone mention cash!!!?!!!!

 

Yes.  I don't care if it's a black cat or The White Cat as long as he catches mice.