Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"

[Taomeow]

@welkin You are proposing induction: learn the parts to arrive at the whole.   Ask questions toward getting answers.  Whereas I'm engaged in deduction here: I have the answers, I know and understand the whole -- and now I want to study the parts and parsels that came together to produce this whole.  It's the exact opposite of connecting the dots.  My dots are connected.  I want to disconnect them so as to take a look at each dot individually and at what it is exactly that holds them together.   

 

Let me offer a simile.  Let's compare our present world to a very sick, dying person.  To assess his overall condition, we don't need the exact diagnosis and the comprehensive lab work to be able to tell deathly ill from healthy and robust -- most people don't have to have a medical degree to tell the difference.  We already have our whole picture -- to wit, on the whole, the patient has one foot in the grave.  However we arrived at this conclusion, we have indeed arrived at it -- so the stage of induction is behind us. 

 

But now I want to know what the patient is dying from.  And of course it takes a study of the anamnesis, of the nosognosis.  What happened to him.  What did he do or what was done to him?  A bullet?  A drug addiction?  A suicide attempt?  A congenital heart disease?  A genetic mutation?  A birth defect?  Abuse in early childhood?  A blood clot in a major artery?  All of the above???  None of the above???  And so on.  I want to follow back (and back and forth and forward while at it) the cascade of events and experiences that caused him to arrive at the deathbed where we presently find him.  Which is what the thread is about.  I'm not looking at "Sumer only" -- anymore than a pathologist might look at "heart only" or "brain only."  It's just the present stage of our investigation.  I have to look at Sumer, it's not to be ignored.  But I didn't start there and I don't have to stop there. 

[welkin]

too late

Edited November 19, 2019 by welkin

[welkin]

@Earl Grey

 

edit: Lol. Don't say i didn't warn you.

Edited November 13, 2019 by welkin

[welkin]

On 8/29/2019 at 4:05 AM, Apech said:

Some people have compared the 'handbags' to these carvings at Gobekli Tepe:

 

 

but others have suggested that these are symbols for sunrise/sunset.

 

 

? who?

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by welkin

[Apech]

50 minutes ago, welkin said:

 

They say the bags are symbols of sunrise/sunset? who?

 

 

 

Martin Sweatman : 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prehistory-Decoded-Martin-Sweatman/dp/178901638X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=martin+sweatman&qid=1573638068&sr=8-1

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx11KXwumf5w8J-GdBGKNVA

[KuroShiro]

On 10/25/2019 at 5:17 PM, Taomeow said:

Some Akkadian words still sound familiar to an English speaker.  E.g.,

elat — higher; beyond
elâtu — higher end; the sky
elûti — high; upper

 

Elate, elated, elevated...  elite...  Enlil (n was not pronounced in Sumerian or Akkadian) 

 

 

 

The etymology  of the English word Dog seems to be very interesting.

I know nothing about Sumeria, should I start with the Epic of Gilgamesh?

 

 

5 hours ago, welkin said:

Maybe we're taught to believe that it's us. Our human race. Our people. When in reality, it's the "Narrative" that causes all this.

 

Why the narrative? i feel like the answers are unveiling.

 

 

Do you know what's A.I. role in the "Narrative"?

[welkin]

1 hour ago, KuroShiro said:

Do you know what's A.I. role in the "Narrative"?

 

Not necessarily. Meaning i don't know if i know.

 

Do you?

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

 

The etymology  of the English word Dog seems to be very interesting.

I know nothing about Sumeria, should I start with the Epic of Gilgamesh?

 

 

Do tell about the dog.

 

Gilgamesh is a great starting point indeed.  I have it in Stephen Mitchell's translation ("Gilgamesh: A New English Translation") and while I haven't looked to compare it with other versions, would dare recommend it on its own merits.  It has energy, passion, startling surprises -- you almost feel as though you're reading a thriller rather than researching some ancient dust.  

 

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

9 hours ago, welkin said:

Btw, this thread is what launched deeper research into all this and gave me unimaginable answers. Currently fried from 24/7 research though. will be back with some answers i think i have.

 

 

That's exactly what I envisioned as the best outcome of my endeavor.   

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Martin Sweatman : 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prehistory-Decoded-Martin-Sweatman/dp/178901638X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=martin+sweatman&qid=1573638068&sr=8-1

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx11KXwumf5w8J-GdBGKNVA

 

He seems very certain , considering the debate still rages in scientific camps  ;  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis#Criticism

 

 

a 'research pie fight '   

 

But I will certainly watch it , thanks .

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Do tell about the dog.

 

....

 

I'll tell you something , though not etymology ;

 

Last night the Moon was a full eerie  Pink orange disk (masses amount of bushfire smoke ) , everything was in a weird light . 

 

Wild dogs or dingos where across the river  in the forest ( driven there by fires I imagine )  howling and wailing  their hearts out ... heaps of them.

 

A very strange Moony doggie night      

[Taomeow]

27 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

I'll tell you something , though not etymology ;

 

Last night the Moon was a full eerie  Pink orange disk (masses amount of bushfire smoke ) , everything was in a weird light . 

 

Wild dogs or dingos where across the river  in the forest ( driven there by fires I imagine )  howling and wailing  their hearts out ... heaps of them.

 

A very strange Moony doggie night      

 

Poor things...  Exactly one year ago, when here in California we had the worst wildfires ever, there were thousands of animals who suffered too -- wild ones and also thousands of pets.  This year we also had over 6,000 wildfires to date, but not as horrible as the inferno of last year...  when there were also many human fatalities (over a hundred.)  In some of the surrounding (and densely populated) areas, wildfire evacuations are a yearly event.  A couple of years ago, the mandatory evacuation zone moved to within 4 miles from where I live, and we were warned to be ready-set-go any moment.  You're never ready for these things though, I thought I was but then when it was over I unpacked my bag of necessities and discovered that it contained a bizarre assortment of items that I threw in, mostly represented by a mix of some obsolete jewelry of unknown value and three kinds of cat food.  

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

He seems very certain , considering the debate still rages in scientific camps  ;  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis#Criticism

 

 

a 'research pie fight '   

 

But I will certainly watch it , thanks .

 

 

Sure.  I'm not convinced by all his findings - but he has an interesting approach which is unlike other researchers.

[Nungali]

On 13/11/2019 at 8:42 PM, Apech said:

 

Martin Sweatman : 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prehistory-Decoded-Martin-Sweatman/dp/178901638X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=martin+sweatman&qid=1573638068&sr=8-1

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx11KXwumf5w8J-GdBGKNVA

 

Number 3 is yet to come out ?

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Number 3 is yet to come out ?

 

 

I don't know, I guess so.  He goes through the evidence quite thoroughly in 1 and 2 - he's fair but clearly favours the impact theory.  The book is quite interesting but a few points I don't quite agree with - but hey some good ideas.

[Nungali]

But nothing about GT in 1 and 2        

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

But nothing about GT in 1 and 2        

 

 

Try this one 

 

 

Sorry TM not trying to hijack your thread

[Taomeow]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

Sorry TM not trying to hijack your thread

 

I will be the judge of it once I've watched those videos.  

 

Seriously though, thanks, I'll try to make time.   

[Nungali]

Confusing that they do not have clear numbers (episodes on them ) .

 

I would have to watch the first one first    ( since this starts off with affirmed assumptions from previous episodes  ; Lascaux Cave art shows comet strikes now ?  

 

I wont go further with it as this was just a ref to show where the Handbags of the Gods are supposed to be  sunrise sunset symbols (and after all that watching I didnt see that bit  )

[welkin]

On 11/14/2019 at 9:52 PM, Nungali said:

I wont go further with it as this was just a ref to show where the Handbags of the Gods are supposed to be  sunrise sunset symbols (and after all that watching I didnt see that bit  )

 

Look closer. It's right in your face.

 

too late

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by welkin

[welkin]

This deserves its own post for the little or many who it illuminates on:

Imagine a world where man thinks he is so highly developed that he believes his thought patterns, way of thinking, perceiving, seeing, living, influencing makes him all knowing. Practically believing that they've transcended any other way man or god can create or has always been.

 

Don't imagine, just observe. The gods knew just how stupid and foolish man can be. And we are at the epitome of it. We think we've transcended  those who we were here 10,000 years ago? No, most are just as willfully ignorant as them. Many here...

 

And if you're still mocking, because you know who you are. I leave you with this cryptic message. Imagine having reincarnated hundreds, thousands of times, and you haven't learned one bit. Even today. I sarcastically laugh at you just as you have laughed at me for any short period. Imagine knowing that you're going to come back another thousand times over, to not have realized things again and again.

 

I wish you the best, but deep down inside, based on how i feel. I can't say that i'm not happy that ignorance truly has a punishment. A punishment so menacing not even your devlish, egoic, sinful soul would wish upon the innocent or evil. So menacing, those very beings who live through it could never create or imagine anything comparable.  Let that sink in.

 

On the other hand. It's not so unfair. We all get countless opportunities to figure out truth to set ourselves free. How lucky we are.

I am at peace. Thank you for all you've shown me good luck

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by welkin

[Apech]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

This deserves its own post for the little or many who it illuminates on:

Imagine a world where man thinks he is so highly developed that he believes his thought patterns, way of thinking, perceiving, seeing, living, influencing makes him all knowing. Practically believing that they've transcended any other way man or god can create or has always been.

 

Don't imagine, just observe. The gods knew just how stupid and foolish man can be. And we are at the epitome of it. We think we've transcended  those who we were here 10,000 years ago? No, most are just as willfully ignorant as them. Many here...

 

And if you're still mocking, because you know who you are. I leave you with this cryptic message. Imagine having reincarnated hundreds, thousands of times, and you haven't learned one bit. Even today. I sarcastically laugh at you just as you have laughed at me for any short period. Imagine knowing that you're going to come back another thousand times over, to not have realized things again and again.

 

I wish you the best, but deep down inside, based on how i feel. I can't say that i'm not happy that ignorance truly has a punishment. A punishment so menacing not even your devlish, egoic, sinful soul would wish upon the innocent or evil. So menacing, those very beings who live through it could never create or imagine anything comparable.  Let that sink in.

 

On the other hand. It's not so unfair. We all get countless opportunities to figure out truth to set ourselves free. How lucky we are.

I am at peace. Thank you for all you've shown me good luck

 

 

 

I'm glad you are at peace - but otherwise I have no idea what you are going on about.

[Apech]

Just a couple of takeaways from the Sweatman thing and so on.

 

1.  If it is right that cave art is zodiacal - then of course this means the Babylonians were just codifying something very, very ancient - which is interesting in terms of how people have always understood the relation between 'as above so below' etc.

 

2.  If we are talking about civilisation and its effects - then Gobekli Tepe means we have to review entirely what we mean by that term - as clearly social organisation, engineering, architecture, symbolic thought existed pre settled agriculture and city dwelling.  So I guess we need to separate culture and civilisation - which tend to be conflated.

 

 

By the way in his book Sweatman compares the 'handbags' to the Egyptian horizon (akhet) symbol:

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Apech

[Michael Sternbach]

29 minutes ago, Apech said:

Just a couple of takeaways from the Sweatman thing and so on.

 

1.  If it is right that cave art is zodiacal - then of course this means the Babylonians were just codifying something very, very ancient - which is interesting in terms of how people have always understood the relation between 'as above so below' etc.

 

2.  If we are talking about civilisation and its effects - then Gobekli Tepe means we have to review entirely what we mean by that term - as clearly social organisation, engineering, architecture, symbolic thought existed pre settled agriculture and city dwelling.  So I guess we need to separate culture and civilisation - which tend to be conflated.

 

 

Another possibility is that the builders of Gobekli Tepe - or their instructors - were the representatives of an advanced civilisation yet unidentified by archaeologists but the subject of so many legends from all over the world.

 

It then makes sense to assume that it was that mother culture/civilization that also introduced the concepts of agriculture and city dwelling to the natives of Anatolia.

 

29 minutes ago, Apech said:

By the way in his book Sweatman compares the 'handbags' to the Egyptian horizon (akhet) symbol:

 

 

[welkin]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

 

I'm glad you are at peace - but otherwise I have no idea what you are going on about.

 

Let's see how many people agree with you

 

I know what you are btw