Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"

[welkin]

all part of the plan. But 'why; is the real question.

 

All your patterns so visible yet the intention still foggy.

Edited November 19, 2019 by welkin

[gendao]

On 11/18/2019 at 2:52 AM, Apech said:

#Me too.

 

(I was hoping this thread would be free from weird racist racial theories).

Racist against the Anunnaki?  Because that IS simply where the trail of breadcrumbs leads back to for the origins of Christian colonialism exoterraforming and the great mass extermination of native life/culture/ethos on this planet...  Which is the big question this thread really seeks to answer?  What really caused this sudden turning point in the long history of this planet?

Quote

Enoch 1 relates this story in great detail. It lists the names of 18 "prefect" angels - of 200 - who committed this sin. According to the text, these angels also taught mankind the "making of swords and knives, shields and breastplates (metallurgy); ... magical medicine, dividing of roots (medicinal and hallucinogenic use); incantations, astrology, the seeing of the stars, the course of the moon, as well as the deception of man."

Anu space invasion -> Enki & Enlil (good cop/bad cop) -> GMO invasive hybrid humans (by Enki) -> Intervention (ME handbag/knowledge/forbidden fruit/Promethean fire from "serpent" Enki) -> (Younger Dryas Deluge destroyed most of humanity) -> Humans built "Tower of Babel" stone megaliths (frightening Enlil) -> Abraham (Enlilism to counter Enkiism) -> Judaism/Christianity/Islam -> Christian colonialism -> 6th mass extinction/extermination

Remember, deforestation/ecocide is just the other side of the coin to "Western" civilization/city-building...

Edited November 24, 2019 by gendao

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, gendao said:

 Christian colonialism

> Judaism/Christianity/Islam -> Christian colonialism -

 "Western" civilization/city-building...

 

I guess it's time to take a detour.  I was planning it for later in the thread, but since it got littered with the usual nonsense, why not take it now.  Welcome to China for a change of pace. 

The Shang Dynasty is the earliest ruling dynasty of China to be established in recorded history, though other dynasties predated it. The Shang ruled from 1600 to 1046 B.C.  It began when a tribal chief named Tang defeated the Xia Dynasty, which in 1600 B.C. was under the control of a tyrant named Jie.  Tang is known for inventing the draft toward creating a regular army.  Several large cities were built, including Zhengzhou and Anyang.  

 

Anyang became the capital around 1300 B.C. under King Pan Geng.  Zhengzhou is renowned for its walls, which ran for four miles and were 32 feet high and 65 feet thick.  Like any ancient city, it came complete with altars, temples and palaces located at the center.

 

The king was also the chief priest.  It was believed that he communicated with his ancestors and via them directly with god (sic -- singular, the religion was monotheistic), Shang Di    considered the supreme ancestor, the god creator, and heaven itself.  The king of China ruled by mandate of heaven -- i.e. authorized directly by his ancestor god.  The wishes of the god were received by diviners and interpreted for the masses by the king.

The magnitude of the yearly event known as the Border Sacrifice and the size of the altar used for the purpose boggle the mind.  The largest and longest-existing known sacrificial site in the world, it witnessed the sacrifice to Shang Di of tens of thousands (and during certain periods when the god was particularly hungry, hundreds of thousands) of bulls every year.  The ceremony goes back 4,000 years.  Emperor Shun (who ruled 2256 BC--2205 BC) was the first to be recorded (in the Shu Jing, or Book of History) as sacrificing to Shang Di, but the altar was already there.  Still is.  The ceremony, which by the 20th century dwindled to sacrificing just one sacred imperial bull, persisted till 1911.   

 

 

 

To be continued...

Edited November 19, 2019 by Taomeow

[gendao]

^ Well of course China's first hierarchical RULING dynasty with live sacrifices would be from the BULL/EL/Enlil cult.  The cult spread further than just E.din...although took longer and became more watered down in its furthest reaches.

 

So, a number of areas built civilizations around the globe, creating a whole spectrum from native indigenous to exoteric Anunnaki culture.  I've just singled out Christian colonialism because it is on the most extreme Anunnaki end in degree (of severity and global influence).  I mean seriously, if Columbus did what he did today in any US city...he would be labeled a psychopathic, mass murdering, serial killer!

 

This sh*t goes deep, people...and very few fish will ever notice the water they were born in!

 

For example, one simple rule-of-thumb metric for this spectrum is the literal distance between a population's root chakra and Mother Earth on average when comfortably sitting or sh*tting.  Now, on the native end of the scale:

Quote

Our ancestors sat on the ground to be closer to unci maka where the truth and all creation lies. Now we sit on chairs and tell lies. We treat the ground as dirty and improper. How can this be when our bodies return to the earth. Old ways are better. Ancestors knew better.

Somewhere to the right of the middle lies China...where they still squat down to sit or sh*t...use short chairs in some places...and all used to squat or sit in seiza or lotus before chairs were imported (likely) along the Silk Road back in the Tang Dynasty.  And their mystery schools still preserve these practices (like MoPai Level 1)...

Quote

In a number of places in China, squatting is a natural habit. In Shaanxi Province, one of their famous "Eight Odds" is that they "don't use chairs, but squat instead."

And then you have "Western" civilization...who has been sitting and sh*tting high up on chairs since Egypt (Anunnaki stronghold).  And even if they ever do sit on the ground, they usually must place some barrier down on it first like a condom.  So, this UNCONSCIOUS disgust/disdain for and separation from Mother Earth is very, very ingrained into the Anunnaki colonialist culture!  Natives sat down WITH Nature...exocolonialists sit ON top of Nature!  Huggeee difference!  Raw Nature is unpalatable, we must replace it with our synthetic aesthetic!!!

Which leads us back to our predicament today...

Edited November 22, 2019 by gendao

[Nungali]

I get around this  ^  by simply dumping a handful of earth down the back of me undies . That way my base chakra is ALWAYS close to the earth .

[Nungali]

Have you ever lived on the dirt Gendao , close to nature ?

 

I have . I used to love sitting around in the dirt by the fire with my Bundjalung friends .  

 

 

.....   for a while .  Then eventually you get covered in this combination of fine dust and charcoal powder from the fire and a coating of animal grease  from the animal parts either cooking on the fire or hanging above it.  Throw some blood and guts into that mixture if you are involved with hunting and preparing the food .  And no washing ... only in the river , which is cold water and doesnt really wash off the grime, just smears it around more and emulsifies it .  Then any clothes you wear start to get 'shiny' and stiff .

 

About a week and half of that and I was very ready for a nice modern hot western shower with soap .

 

Not saying what is better or worse here  ... just wondering if you yourself have  actually ever experienced anything you write about  ?

 

Like the 'lawn' thing . I agree with the sentiments , but have YOU ever had to manage land  ?  Eg, using the same people and location as above ; they got a heap of land back that  was theirs and it was stolen during white settlement and turned into a cow farm ; acres of pasture . Now its their land and they want to get rid of the cattle. No cattle and no mowing is just going to result in a mess of tangled invasive species .  In a large are like this, with little funds and resources to replant the whole thing naturally, whats the  choice ?

 

In this situation it usually results in invasive exotic  regrowth .

[Apech]

An interesting video about the transition from hunter gatherer to 'Anatolian' farmers:

 

 

[KuroShiro]

On 11/16/2019 at 5:04 PM, Taomeow said:

You thought I'd overlook food? 

 

Well I thought it might be implied but I wanted to make sure . It really deserves to be highlighted especially in the context of magic.

 

On 11/16/2019 at 5:04 PM, Taomeow said:

I just sort of think of it in the overall context of a broad definition of "magic."  Magic, you know, as part of how ordinary reality itself works -- we're just so used to the most miraculous that we don't think of it as magical, instead we think of magic as something "goal-oriented" that either "works toward the goal we set" or "doesn't work."  And therein lies our demise.  "Forced magic" usually either doesn't work at all, or works destructively.  It's easier to harness a djinn that destroys palaces than one who builds them.  Try to build a city with a nuclear bomb.

 

Food is the most magical thing.  It's not just the crude "outside to inside" shift -- it's the first alchemical transformation of "not me" into "me."  And vice versa, depending on what you eat.  The kind of "me" you obtain is predicated on what kind of "not me" you got as input.  But in a most mysterious way!  The mammoth ate grass, it was essentially a huge wooly lawn mower.  We ate the mammoth though, once the grass into mammoth transformation was taken care of.  They used to not mind until it got really cold really suddenly...  so researchers blaming their extinction on us are way off.  We just cleaned the plate and there were no second helpings anymore, but we aren't the sun so we weren't responsible when it abruptly stopped cooking the mammoths' food for them.  

 

So I guess culture is predicated on, primarily, climate, the latter is the epigenetic factor that causes cultures "in the human sense" to manifest, and epigenetic adaptation is part of magic.  Learning to use fire to cook food was culture -- and magic.  We can't breathe fire, we had to come up with a cultural way to externalize our needs.  Culture is a departure from the embodied, taking something originating "in here within me" into the outside world.  Long as it doesn't depart too far, doesn't suck the "in here within me" dry like our modern culture does, we're OK.  Culture is a double-edged sword that is easy to fall on.   (Or push someone onto.)  

 

thanks

 

On 11/16/2019 at 5:04 PM, Taomeow said:

So dogs are dragons?  What about cats?  

 

Don't ask me.

 

What do the Sumerians tell about agriculture, animal domestication? Did someone teach them?

I wonder if we would have had the domestication of the wolf without agriculture/animal domestication, that is what came first.

It's interesting that the most intelligent dog breed is the border collie, a herding dog.

[Nungali]

I think the  domestication of the wolf came before agriculture - it probably was a companion of hunters and gatherers.  Then got adapted to herding and pastoralism later .. The dog doesnt seem to have a stronger role in agricultural societies . Aside from herding, and companionship, what is its role in agriculture ?

 

 

[gendao]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:16 PM, Nungali said:

And no washing ... only in the river , which is cold water and doesnt really wash off the grime, just smears it around more and emulsifies it .  Then any clothes you wear start to get 'shiny' and stiff .

 

About a week and half of that and I was very ready for a nice modern hot western shower with soap .

 

Not saying what is better or worse here  ... just wondering if you yourself have  actually ever experienced anything you write about  ?

 

Like the 'lawn' thing . I agree with the sentiments , but have YOU ever had to manage land  ?  Eg, using the same people and location as above ; they got a heap of land back that  was theirs and it was stolen during white settlement and turned into a cow farm ; acres of pasture . Now its their land and they want to get rid of the cattle. No cattle and no mowing is just going to result in a mess of tangled invasive species .  In a large are like this, with little funds and resources to replant the whole thing naturally, whats the  choice ?

 

In this situation it usually results in invasive exotic  regrowth .

Well sure, the 100% sustainable, aboriginal lifestyle is tough...which is why they deserve so much appreciation and respect!  Not derision as "merciless savages!"

 

And yes, a lot of the colonialist ecological damage is simply irreversible at this point.  The spread of invasive species and extreme depopulations/extinctions of native flora and fauna cannot be undone.  You can't unring a bell or stuff some genies back in the bottle.  You can't bring the Dodo bird back or stop all mile-a-minute weed.  You can never really restore a land back to native forest or prairie without invasives now.  Which is why Christian colonialism deserves to be held FULLY accountable for its planetary ecocide and STOPPED!!!

Most people don't realize the true scope of its damage unless they ever really delve into ecology...and even then you have to eventually figure out ON YOUR OWN that it was the root of all evil there.

That said, of course I have done what I can to help turn the tide against invasives, along with some native restoration.  But that is but a very tiny drop in the bucket...

Edited November 24, 2019 by gendao

[Taomeow]

On 11/23/2019 at 5:26 AM, KuroShiro said:

 

What do the Sumerians tell about agriculture, animal domestication? Did someone teach them?

 

 

Ah, that's a million dollar question with a trillion dollar answer.  It is found on the tablets from the temple library at Nippur (presently property of the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archeology and Anthropology).   It is titled "Debate between sheep and grain."  

Here's how the story goes:

 

It begins at a location designated "the hill of heaven and earth" (the Sumerian for which is "Edin") and from the context it's clear that it's not a dwelling on earth but the abode of the gods.  Then at the point where the heavens rest upon the earth, the god An creates the cattle-goddess, Lahar, and the grain goddess, Ashnan, to feed and clothe the Annunaki, who in turn made man.  Lahar and Ashnan are created in the "duku" or "pure place" and the story further describes how the Annunaki create a sheepfold with plants and herbs for Lahar and a house, plough and yoke for Ashnan, describing the introduction of animal husbandry and agriculture.  The story continues with a quarrel between the two goddesses over their gifts which eventually resolves with Enki and Enlil intervening to declare Ashnan the victor.

 

The story rings so many bells... 

 

On 11/23/2019 at 5:26 AM, KuroShiro said:

 

I wonder if we would have had the domestication of the wolf without agriculture/animal domestication, that is what came first.

It's interesting that the most intelligent dog breed is the border collie, a herding dog.

 

I've seen pictures of Native American hunter-gatherers who were still around at the time of the early age of photography, featuring them in the company of their wolf friends.  Just hanging out together, not for domestication and not for eliciting services but because it's normal and natural for nearly all animals (and in all likelihood humans who remain fully connected with nature) to befriend members of a different species on occasion, to care for someone else's young if some mishap left them orphaned, or even (gasp) just out of curiosity, choice, chancing upon a playmate when young and open to playing with everything in the world, enjoying it and sometimes forming a bond.  It looks like that was the situation, not of domestication but of just hanging out together as pals or as a parent-kid duo or brothers or sisters.  Now that we have youtube and are not limited to the dog-eat-dog rendition of inter-animal relations we've been fed for decades by Discovery channel and the like, there's a gazillion videos to testify to the fact that animals interact as friends all the time.  Even those who under different circumstances would eat each other.  Or those who would never encounter each other in nature.  There's cats raising rats, dogs raising ducklings, a dog and an elephant spending all their time together (one of them standing guard near the hospital for weeks when the other one is taken ill), a trio comprised of tiger, bear and lion who are like brothers, a rooster meeting the school bus every day to jump into his human girl's arms, a cat and an owl frolicking together all the time, geese and swans playing with fishes and feeding them from their own trough, a crow raising, feeding and protecting a stray kitten, and on and on.  I love those videos.  I've probably seen hundreds over the years.    

 

So I'm guessing, some of us used to hang out with wolves on an individual case by case basis, without turning this into a business relationship.  On the other hand, at least some hunters may have figured out some kind of cooperation with animals that did turn into a business relationship, who knows.  Birds of prey may have been employed long before dogs in this capacity (still are in some parts of the world)... still, no one seems to have selectively bred them to create a species of servants.  That comes with agriculture.    

[Apech]

@ऋषि

 

are you trying to equate these deities with Vajrapani???

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

@ऋषि

 

are you trying to equate these deities with Vajrapani???

 

I wouldn't presume to speak for ऋषि but maybe he's just drawing a parallel -- to illustrate that people worshipped all kinds of destroyer gods everywhere?  I don't see what else they might have in common, but I only know the Chinese version of the Japanese version of Vajrapani -- Budo, aka Fudo Myo-o, a borrowing into taoism (made necessary by the fact that taoism didn't have its own god fierce enough and terrifying enough when the purpose was to deter meddlers in the taoist's undertakings.)  I've given Budo some money when I encountered him in the Tang dynasty museum in Xi'an.  Greetings, wrathful god.  

Edited November 28, 2019 by Taomeow

[Nungali]

The above lead me to question; Do Australian Aboriginals have a war God ?

 

Not that I know of . There are Gods like  Bungil ( Mars and an eagle)  and  Mamaragan  ( Lightening Man ) but any actions they seem to rule over are more like 'punishments', for law breaking .

 

As I noted before, they never had war , not like the above icons indicate. They use the name 'war' to describe conflicts but there was no invasion, mass slaughter, slaves or prisoners,   destroying  food sources and the other's land .

 

....  and no 'modern'   agriculture  or  urbanism .

[Everything]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

The above lead me to question; Do Australian Aboriginals have a war God ?

 

Not that I know of . There are Gods like  Bungil ( Mars and an eagle)  and  Mamaragan  ( Lightening Man ) but any actions they seem to rule over are more like 'punishments', for law breaking .

 

As I noted before, they never had war , not like the above icons indicate. They use the name 'war' to describe conflicts but there was no invasion, mass slaughter, slaves or prisoners,   destroying  food sources and the other's land .

 

....  and no 'modern'   agriculture  or  urbanism .

Dolphins are stewards of the ocean. Humanity future is as the steward of the land. And Robert Irwin is the steward of the land. And his father aswell. And they both speak australian. It sounds somewhat Irish to me. The future language of humanity sounds like that.

 

Wait... Now I am confused. Why does australian sound like irish?

This is interesting. 

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, Everything said:

Dolphins are stewards of the ocean. Humanity future is as the steward of the land. And Robert Irwin is the steward of the land. And his father aswell. And they both speak australian. It sounds somewhat Irish to me. The future language of humanity sounds like that.

 

Wait... Now I am confused. Why does australian sound like irish?

This is interesting. 

 

 

You're confused! Spare a thought for the rest of us.

 

P.S.  For your information Australia is almost entirely inhabited by convicts and felons of various types, many of whom are Irish.

 

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~fianna/oc/oznz/pasconau.html

[Everything]

9 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

You're confused! Spare a thought for the rest of us.

 

P.S.  For your information Australia is almost entirely inhabited by convicts and felons of various types, many of whom are Irish.

 

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~fianna/oc/oznz/pasconau.html

Ok, so here I found the explanation of the irish accent, and he is LITERALLY AND VISUALLY describing the 2 dimensional motion of the arabic language in written form. 

I am literally struck by awe. I don't even know what to say anymore. 😦

 

It's like everything I have ever been told has been unlearned in just a few seconds by this man. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Everything

[Taomeow]

A prayer:

 

May all topic derailers and thread hijackers taste their own medicine in real life.  May they be sidetracked by whoever they talk to into discussing anything but what they want to talk about.  May their explicit pleas to stick to the subject be always ignored.  May they always be dragged kicking and screaming into someone else's agenda.  May they stand no chance to follow through on any interest of theirs due to someone else just lying in wait to pounce on that and pound it into the ground as soon as they express it.  May everyone around them be always on the lookout to prevent any chance of their learning, comprehending, sharing, mulling over, or otherwise addressing any subject of their choice.  May they be dumped all manner of garbage upon as soon as they appear anywhere, may they become walking talking garbage dumpsters.  May they sag under the load and crawl aimlessly in a stupor of indifference and apathy.  What's the point of anything if there's no way for them to ever stick to the point?..     

 

Amen.  

[Jim D.]

Where does the point begin. I am new to this thread. It sounds like some commenters  are not taking this thread seriously...and it is frustrating. 

[Jim D.]

I am asking you Ms. Taomeow to help me here. I would like to respond to the subject but do not know what it is about. It would be good if you gave me an abstract of what started you thinking on Sumer: "the black-headed" vs. the "red-faced."  It is intriguing. Thank you. 

[KuroShiro]

18,000-year-old puppy discovered in Siberia could be missing link between dogs and wolves

 

An 18,000-year-old puppy unearthed in Siberia could prove to be the missing link between dogs and wolves, scientists believe. 

 

A 2017 study published in the journal Nature Communications suggested that modern dogs were domesticated from a single wolf population 20,000 to 40,000 years ago but tests on this specimen could offer further clues as to the precise period.

 

"We don't know exactly when dogs were domesticated, but it may have been from about that time. We are interested in whether it is in fact a dog or a wolf, or perhaps it's something halfway between the two," Mr Stanton added.

 

"It seems that dogs were domesticated from a lineage of wolves that went  extinct," said Mr Stanton. "So that's why it's such a difficult problem to work on to understand where and when dogs were domesticated."

 

Dogor was discovered in a remote part of north-east Siberia and is so well-preserved because it was found in a tunnel that was dug into the permafrost.

 

He was later sent to Oxford University's Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit for dating, which revealed that the corpse dated back at least 18,000 years, meaning Dogor would have lived during the last Ice Age.

 

 

Could a dog be living in Siberia during an Ice Age?

I didn't know this:

"It seems that dogs were domesticated from a lineage of wolves that went extinct,"

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

15 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

Where does the point begin. I am new to this thread. It sounds like some commenters  are not taking this thread seriously...and it is frustrating. 

 

Some are taking themselves seriously, and nothing and nobody else.  So they might destroy the flow because they don't know how to jump into the flow that is not about their pet peeve, yet refuse to go elsewhere without urinating into it first.  Marking the territory, so to speak.  

 

The point begins with the OP exploring Sumer and other related civilizations of Mesopotamia vs. the way of life that went earlier that they somehow replaced -- forever.  And looking for similarities therein (and dissimilarities, and parallels, and unique features, etc.)  to some more generic features of "civilization" and its opposites.  So, it's either about, "Sumerians did/believed/initiated/invented etc. this and that -- here's an item for your consideration" or about "do we still do things the way they first did it in Sumer? -- here's an item (or an idea) to look at," or about "is civilization natural, or did someone merely domesticate us as cattle and brainwash us into believing it's a grand thing, and that we couldn't survive without it, and that we are in a perfectly natural process for our species?" and so on, stuff like that.  The OP's position is anti-civilization, she believes designating its opponents as "savages" is the ugliest projection ever undertaken.  She is suspicious of an extraneous intervention believing that as a hypothesis it explains our predicament better than either creation or evolution or a combo of both (without however excluding either as something that went before the intervention).  She is intolerant of any views that single out a nation, religion, race as the culprit (an ignorant self-serving idiocy, a fruitless and often cruel and extremely unjust cop-out that replaces an honest quest for answers because it is, well, an easy sleight-of-hand cop-out when answers are not easy to obtain.)  She is also not a fan of verbal diarrhea and of walls of unrelated pictures erected all over the barely visible path she's trying to discern.  Everything else is welcome.   

 

[Taomeow]

23 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

 

Could a dog be living in Siberia during an Ice Age?

I didn't know this:

"It seems that dogs were domesticated from a lineage of wolves that went extinct,"

 

 

Interesting.  Definitely the kind of dog equipped to handle extreme cold temperatures still exists, and some are employed just the way they may have been employed 18,000 years ago.  (A note to anyone who would own a husky, or knows someone who wants to own a husky: please don't.  Don't -- unless you can engage that dog in shared activities all day long.  Huskies are like wolves, tribal, they don't do well on their own, they have to be part of a pack, a team, and have plenty of activity, or they start losing their mind.  It's not the dog that can be home alone just doing nothing, they are social and need a purpose.  A husky belongs where it comes from.)       

[Jim D.]

Ms. Taomeow, I would guess that you are an intellectual and scholar of Anthropology...probably majored in it and wrote a thesis regarding the above. It would be difficult for most or all common men to discourse on this topic, but interesting to listen to and learn from you. 

 

It would be like my picking a topic from a Sociology course I taught at the University level and expect my audience to respond intellectually...unless they too were of equal interest in their pursuit of knowledge and the etiology of man.

 

For me, I would expect to see eyes glazed over. Even after three hours of Continuing Education, I too, squirm in my seat. I wish I could get up and leave, but then I would not get the Certification letter needed to prove to the Licensing body that I was there. Otherwise, I wouldn't go. I have been attending CEU's since 2000.

 

I suppose I could relate to your interests in that I found it an interesting subject to teach regarding the development of the family going back to pre-human days. I think the course I taught was Marriage and Family. 

 

I put your subject up in my browser and found your original post. So, in my eyes that makes you famous. I am impressed. 

 

I do not have the background to anything substantial, so I will just listen. 

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

Ms. Taomeow, I would guess that you are an intellectual and scholar of Anthropology...probably majored in it and wrote a thesis regarding the above. It would be difficult for most or all common men to discourse on this topic, but interesting to listen to and learn from you. 

 

It would be like my picking a topic from a Sociology course I taught at the University level and expect my audience to respond intellectually...unless they too were of equal interest in their pursuit of knowledge and the etiology of man.

 

For me, I would expect to see eyes glazed over. Even after three hours of Continuing Education, I too, squirm in my seat. I wish I could get up and leave, but then I would not get the Certification letter needed to prove to the Licensing body that I was there. Otherwise, I wouldn't go. I have been attending CEU's since 2000.

 

I suppose I could relate to your interests in that I found it an interesting subject to teach regarding the development of the family going back to pre-human days. I think the course I taught was Marriage and Family. 

 

I put your subject up in my browser and found your original post. So, in my eyes that makes you famous. I am impressed. 

 

I do not have the background to anything substantial, so I will just listen. 

 

Thank you, Mr. Jim D.  

 

I'm not a scholar of anthropology, just an interested dabbler.  And my objections were aimed specifically at a couple of folks in the thread who know who they are.  I was a bit annoyed by their persistent "contributions" of monkey wrenches, hence the "prayer" -- but I definitely don't ask for any particular level of scholarship.  Interest in the discussion is the ticket to the discussion -- while interest in something entirely else is a ticket to some other discussion, altogether elsewhere.  Of course asides and tangents are bound to arise, nothing wrong with that.  As a "side effect," not as a strategy, they are fine.

 

You're welcome to just listen, jump in with an idea or ask a question.