Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"

[Nungali]

21 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Sure I wasn't trying to set up a 'whose was the best plumbing' thing - I was was just struck by the quality of those Roman faucets - which by the way look like copper or possibly bronze - while the pipe is lead (which would be ok if the water is hard).

 

Oh yeah , much better faucets than the Minoans .

 

Minoan faucet   ( upper right )  also known as  'mechanism for flushing'  ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

.... I didnt know that about lead and hard water . So lead  can   be okay in ( some ) water pipes ?

[Apech]

43 minutes ago, Nungali said:

.... I didnt know that about lead and hard water . So lead  can   be okay in ( some ) water pipes ?

 

Well its still not ideal but with hard water it deposits a scale on the inner surface of the pipe (like you can get in a kettle sometimes) and this means the amount of lead dissolved in the water is much less (not sure what safe levels are considered these days) - in soft water areas the risks are much higher and especially if the water is slightly acidic. 

[Taomeow]

On 12/23/2019 at 5:52 PM, Taomeow said:

 

 

Sumerians were star gazers -- they spent their evenings, and often nights, on the flat roofs of their houses, resting, socializing, eating and sleeping there.  Or just lying on their back gazing at the night sky.  There was no light pollution.  The climate, with few nights when the sky was clouded, also contributed to astronomical observations. 

 

 

Boy how much progress we've made since those days!

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Taomeow

[Nungali]

Thats worse than 'rain tax' .

 

Yes folks , in the country of mega drought , when it finally rains and a bit goes in your dam, you are supposed to pay the government for that .

 

 " It has been accused of stooping to new lows by slugging rural property owners with a new charge for rainwater that gathers in their dams....

Darren Smith owns a large tract of land at Peats Ridge presently leased out as a chicken farm.

When Mr Smith received his dam licence renewal, he was shocked to receive an extra water usage bill for $60. This was on top of his licence renewal fee.

It was a new charge by the Department of Water and Energy for “unregulated river system management costs”.

“How can they tax me for water that falls from the sky?” Mr Smith asked. "

 

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/questions-asked-over-new-rain-tax/news-story/1b8ec25e20850d0df9014879f24eddd5

 

 

Actually , some of  our rain ....  the government's rain  clouds  , blew over your way, ad rained on your country . Please send the money to 

 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/

[Taomeow]

Yeah, and the breathing tax is probably being shaped up as we speak.  

 

The stargazing permit apparently costs something like $40 and allows entry into the parks that supposedly close at dusk.  Which makes it an interesting conundrum -- if the park is closed, wouldn't it mean no one can enter it?..  But if the permit allows entry, then it is not really closed, it is only closed to everybody who won't be extorted or can't afford to lift up their head to look at the night sky for free.  The parks, incidentally, are already paid for with taxpayers' money, and closing them for the night (ours close at 5 pm) means -- well, I don't know what it means.  I'm not an accountant.  Probably that taxpayers' money is only good to cover the daylight existence of the park?  And for access to its nighttime existence you're taxed further? 

 

Of course no one should complain.  They could sell the property to a private owner (which is the case with most of the best easily accessible land anyway) and then, no park, and don't bother us with that stargazing nonsense -- gaze at street lights and headlights of cars on the highway and gaze at your cell phone too while at it -- while moving on, keep moving on, serf, there's work to do, and if you want to just be idle for a while, you have to pay for the privilege.  And to pay for the privilege, you have to work extra hard to afford it.  So don't stay idle gazing at stars for too long, contemplating, imagining, enjoying, belonging...  or soon you won't be able to afford to gaze at anything at all except down at your shoelaces, contemplating if you could make a noose out of them.  

[Nungali]

We (in our valley) had an 'old school'  ' hill billy/ logging family  '  up the end of the valley, isolated, smack-dab in the middle of a rare  rainforest eco system *  .  They eventually . went broke, bank foreclosed on properties , they moved out .  Not much 'commercial usage ' viable, it went into limbo for a while and eventually it was made   a National Park and gated and locked access due to its 'sensitive' nature .

 

'Ceptin , there is a guy living there right in the middle of it, building a house - legally . . .  I guess they gave him a key to the gates ?

 

*  ttps://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/conservation-and-heritage/gondwana-rainforests-of-australia

 

Aside ;

Spoiler

My teacher ( full blood Aboriginal and site guardian ) , in his younger days, would take 'the boys'  ( his students/nephews ) out into the National Park that abutted their 'mission' (an old system that locked up the indigenous in a land area   .... eedyuts !  All they had to do was hop the fence  and get the 'lap laps' , spears and stone tools they hid there, chuck the westies -  western clothing- and 'go native ' )  out into the National Park ,  dressed and painted up traditionally , emerge from the bushes onto tourists having a picnic, jabber  their lingo at them, point spears and steal their lunch     

 

Japanese tourists where their fav   ( some asked to take a photo, which they obliged  - after scoffing their food ...  mmmm   Sushi  !  ). But others panicked and ran off .

 

We imagine them reporting at the local police station   " We where attacked by wild Aboriginals who couldnt even speak English, and they stole our lunch ! "

 

Police ;  " Yeah .. right  SURE they did  !      ( crazy imaginative Japs )  "

 

(  Me , to teacher ;  " What  ?   You where  'Yogi Bearing' them  ? !  )       )

 

 

[gendao]

13 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Boy how much progress we've made since those days!

 

A few centuries ago, this entire continent was just one giant, free, stateless park where everyone tread lightly as gracious guests on this sacred Airbnb to freely revere all of its wonders...before all those inhabitants were "saved" by our new slumlords of "freedom"...

Edited January 31, 2020 by gendao

[Nungali]

I dont understand this American stuff .

 

If I was wanting to look at a map of 'Native American tribes'   , then I would expect it to cover ;

 

 

 

The map in the post above looks like ' a map of native tribes that lived in the NOW area of the USA' .   I mean,  even if we use the 'North America' designation  , it left out modern day Canada , a HUGE expanse of Nth American native territory .

 

So why represent the' Natives Tribes of America' on a modern geopolitical map of the USA ?  

 

And, especially, why use that map to demonstrate comments like ;

 

" this entire continent was just one giant, free, stateless park where everyone tread lightly as gracious guests on this sacred Airbnb to freely revere all of its wonders...before all those inhabitants were "saved" by our new slumlords of "freedom"...

 

I thought  USA was created by 'slum lords of freedom'   OVER  the Natives and made this USA map  ?  So why use That map, I dont get it .

 

But what would I know of such things and reasons , as I am NOT  from the USA .

[gendao]

^ Nice maps, but I was actually trying to zoom INto the local area of her state park.  It would have been cool to know what tribes were hanging out there, specifically.  But, the whole US was just the closest I could find in .543 nanoseconds, lol.

Edited January 31, 2020 by gendao

[Nungali]

I was referring to  your irrelevant  comments you made with the map in your post , not the relevant  ones you didnt make in your post

 

Here we go again with gendao   

 

... I'm out .

[Apech]

Here we are arguing about maps now!

 

 

[silent thunder]

I learned a fair amount (of that which settled properly for me) about a topic of which I knew next to nothing.  It's a fascinating topic.  I'm still reading with interest, but it's challenging to sift.

 

All that we are is the result of what we have thought.  ~ some woke Indian man

If you find no one to support you on the spiritual path, walk alone. There is no companionship with the immature.  ~ that same woke Indian man

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by silent thunder

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

Here we are arguing about maps now!

 

 

 

Oh , you want to join in ?

 

 

More about the comment than the map .But regarding the strange take over of the term 'America' by the USA .... oh wait , You are not from USA either .

 

It shall remain unanswered I suppose .

[gendao]

16 hours ago, Apech said:

Here we are arguing about maps now!

It was a deflection from the actual point of:

[Nungali]

I would love to watch Gendao walk across all that free land that no one owned and everyone was allowed to go    

 

Hope he could keep his scalp on  .

 

" Each tribe pushed other tribes off the land it wanted and in turn was frequently forced out by other later more powerful tribes. Individual status in each tribal band was based on bravery in battle, coups and scalps taken, slaves and horses stolen, enemies tortured, “foreign” women raped  ....  "   -

 

I wont finish with some lame meme pic to  to show what a nong he is ... here is a paper that does it  ;

 

https://www.lagrange.edu/resources/pdf/citations08/CULTURALASPECTSOFWARFARE.pdf

 

In ancient Australia  too , yeah, you could walk all over the place..., where you had RIGHT to .... connections, extended family .... you might be cheered on the other side of the country .But it certainly wasn't free for all  

 

 

 

how did that turn out ?  He got  huge stone spear head through his right kidney ..... thunk   .... bye bye .

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Nungali

[Cleansox]

Nooooo! 

 

Natives are noble, it was the white middle aged man that burned down paradise and destroyed the world. 

 

I'm sure of it. 

I think. 

Maybe 

[Apech]

21 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Oh , you want to join in ?

 

 

More about the comment than the map .But regarding the strange take over of the term 'America' by the USA .... oh wait , You are not from USA either .

 

It shall remain unanswered I suppose .

 

Could argue about this one:

 

[Taomeow]

All right, I think I have a choice of a few options.  I wanted the thread to be visible and contributable to from the get-go, and that's why I didn't start it in my PPD as originally planned...  not many people bother to visit PPDs (even though in some cases that's where all the gems of cultivation can be found).  And now I have wonderful and thoughtful people complain that they have to sift through too much garbage to get to the posts worth their bandwidth here.  So I'm debating with myself -- what ought to be done about it?  I'm considering several scenarios:

 

1. Screw it, abandon it and let the trolls have their ball.  We all exist for their entertainment anyway.  You cut one troll's head, three more grow in its place.  A losing battle.  Choose your battles and give them their daily bread.

 

2. Take the thread to PPD, delete all trolling/derailing material, clean it up.  And screw it once again, because no one will read or contribute and you'll run out of steam carrying on in no time.  Talking to myself about Sumer, civilization, all that jazz?  I can do that without typing.

 

3. I don't know what, I need another cup of coffee before I might have another idea.  

[Apech]

10 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

All right, I think I have a choice of a few options.  I wanted the thread to be visible and contributable to from the get-go, and that's why I didn't start it in my PPD as originally planned...  not many people bother to visit PPDs (even though in some cases that's where all the gems of cultivation can be found).  And now I have wonderful and thoughtful people complain that they have to sift through too much garbage to get to the posts worth their bandwidth here.  So I'm debating with myself -- what ought to be done about it?  I'm considering several scenarios:

 

1. Screw it, abandon it and let the trolls have their ball.  We all exist for their entertainment anyway.  You cut one troll's head, three more grow in its place.  A losing battle.  Choose your battles and give them their daily bread.

 

2. Take the thread to PPD, delete all trolling/derailing material, clean it up.  And screw it once again, because no one will read or contribute and you'll run out of steam carrying on in no time.  Talking to myself about Sumer, civilization, all that jazz?  I can do that without typing.

 

3. I don't know what, I need another cup of coffee before I might have another idea.  

 

I vote for just getting back on topic - and I'll try to do so.

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Could argue about this one:

 

 

No thanks . As it wasnt about arguing with you or maps. It was the nonsense gendao wrote -  again.

 

A further question  is about the name of America .

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

 

I vote for just getting back on topic - and I'll try to do so.

 

I have done that several times , after we 'explored' other avenues .   I even hid some of my stuff ( side issues, pics, etc )  in spoiler boxes, as requested .  I thought it was going sort ok ... until ....

 

Isnt this the thread Sean told Gendao to fuck off from .

 

 

[gendao]

For Nungali only:

Spoiler

 

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

I would love to watch Gendao walk across all that free land that no one owned and everyone was allowed to go    

 

Hope he could keep his scalp on  .

 

" Each tribe pushed other tribes off the land it wanted and in turn was frequently forced out by other later more powerful tribes. Individual status in each tribal band was based on bravery in battle, coups and scalps taken, slaves and horses stolen, enemies tortured, “foreign” women raped  ....  "   -

 

I wont finish with some lame meme pic to  to show what a nong he is ... here is a paper that does it  ;

 

https://www.lagrange.edu/resources/pdf/citations08/CULTURALASPECTSOFWARFARE.pdf

 

In ancient Australia  too , yeah, you could walk all over the place..., where you had RIGHT to .... connections, extended family .... you might be cheered on the other side of the country .But it certainly wasn't free for all 

how did that turn out ?  He got  huge stone spear head through his right kidney ..... thunk   .... bye bye .

I don't see where your quote was in that paper?  Instead, the paper seems to show how aboriginal warfare was driven largely to replace their populations decimated by European contact.  I mean, these guys were in sheer survival mode soon after that, with their populations cut in half.  Whereas pre-contact, there were no horses or slaves to even trade...

Quote

As in many Indian cultures, the Iroquois practice of warfare was not driven by territorial expansion or economic gain; but the need for social continuity.
With the Europeans came disease and technology both unfamiliar and destruction to these tribes.  From the mid-sixteenth century, disease ran rampant through the Iroquois tribes and reduced them to half of their population.  Maintenance of population levels was only possible through war and adoption of new members.  The significance of adoption and maintenance of population is best understood by the role of warfare in Iroquois society.
Similarly to their European counterparts, the Iroquois engaged in battle for prominence of society.  However, according to the Iroquois prominence was gained through maintenance and growth of tribal spiritual power.  War captives were used to replace the dead, literally and symbolically. According to Richter, warfare defined Iroquois mourning practices.  By the end of the first half of the seventeenth century, warfare practices were further redefined with European trade.

Death that spawned from war was considered traumatic and caused profound grief to loved ones.  The deceased’s family and village suffered a loss of power as a result of this loss of life.  The only way to appease the mourning families was to wage vengeance on their killers.
Pre-Cultural Aspects of Warfare: The Iroquois Institution of the Mourning War states, as many Native American societies are  defined,  fought “primitive” wars due to their lack of geopolitical concerns or plans of destruction of opponents will to fight.
The traditional wars of the Five Nations centered on the premise of population stability, which in turn provided individual and collective spiritual power.  When a person died, according to the Iroquois, “the  power of his or her lineage, clan, and  nation diminished in proportion to his or her individual  strength.  ”Requickening is a ritual in which the deceased’s name, along with the social role and duties it represented, transfers to a successor.
Through requickening, any vacancy in Iroquois families and villages are thus filled symbolically and physically.
Scalping also aided in demonstrating superiority while simultaneously spreading a sense of fear among Europeans.

And what's the point of referencing a fictional movie?  BTW, the stranger was killed there because he was mistaken for having kidnapped Ridjimiraril's second wife...not merely because he had come there.  But it was just a drama, not a documentary, so a moot poot anyways.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by gendao

[Taomeow]

21 minutes ago, gendao said:

For Nungali only:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I don't see where your quote was in that paper?  Instead, the paper seems to show how aboriginal warfare was driven largely to replace their populations decimated by European contact.  I mean, these guys were in sheer survival mode soon after that, with their populations cut in half.  Whereas pre-contact, there were no horses or slaves to even trade...

And what's the point of referencing a fictional movie?  BTW, the stranger was killed there because he was mistaken for having kidnapped Ridjimiraril's second wife...not merely because he had come there.  But it was just a drama, so a moot poot.

 

 

 

Well, what do you know -- you, gendao, may have THE solution to my problem.  If you kindly, pretty please, post everything like that in this thread, so that anyone who wants to familiarize themselves with your material can do it of their free will instead of feeling assaulted on their own land by a ruthless invader walking all over their online customs and their native way of thread life like a colonial conquistador, that would be awesome.  It would also indicate that you personally practice what you preach.  Resistance starts at home...  resist the temptation to colonize the thread and we'll have less of that unwelcome vibe in the world!!  Do we have a deal?      

[Nungali]

Bravo Taomeow 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

brilliant 'telling off'    ... but he 'liked it '     ...oh right , now I understand .... he didnt get it .

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Nungali