Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"

[Apech]

Oldest stories (just for interest):  

 

 

at least it has nothing to do with coronavirus!!!!!!!!!

[Taomeow]

@Apech Thanks for the videos -- I haven't watched yet but will make time.  And if it's about a society that's known no civilization nor was epigenetically modified by coming into contact with civilization, then I agree in advance, it has nothing to do with coronavirus.

 

But everything civilization has everything to do with coronavirus.  My position has been consistent for years.  Epidemics, pandemics -- these are a regular, predictable, and inevitable built-in feature of civilization.  They begin with civilization and in all likelihood end civilizations.  If not this one, then the next, or the one after.  Bats have been eaten by humans for thousands of years (much more elsewhere than in China though -- e.g. South Pacific Islanders have always been fond of the bat soup), so bats inhabiting this or that biohazardous lab would never guess that they are something novel.  Yet they are.  Incessant novelty (which we taoists call "restless/confused/entangled qi," the outcome of harmony-destroying pathological processes, whether in the body or in society) is also a built-in feature of civilization.   

 

And now back to our regular broadcast.  

[Starjumper]

On 2/26/2020 at 10:35 PM, Nungali said:

Yes, a dog is natural . It fulfils my definition in that ,  they are comparable to to things or processes in nature ; the thing is canidae,  the process is  symbiosis    and the  development ( of BOTH   dog and human )  is  similar to  the process observed in  ethnobotany -  man developed and changed many plants , but in that process plants , their usage and effects , have  contributed to the development of modern man . 

 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/653816?seq=1

 

Regarding the 'disappearance of dogs '  ;

 

Mainstream-educated posterity five thousand years from now   will probably have access to even more fossil dogs than we do today .

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/18/15992572/dog-genetics-archaeology-fossils-evolution-domestication-wolves

 

I tried looking up  fossils of the Gods  .... but no, not even an angel fossil .

 

 

- and by the way ,  I never said what you attribute to me ;  "     Were there gods?  You confidently say "no."  "

 

What I DID say was ;   " the Gods are immortal " . I also said  "  they are  concepts, ideas  and forces "    I also said that the Gods  are ; " not having mortality" - meaning  'immortal' . 

 

- Cant see me  " confidently saying "     ' There where no Gods'   there anywhere  at all   .   

 

OK, now shove your head back up your ass, dip shit.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Starjumper

[Apech]

https://www.academia.edu/3045718/2013._A_Cosmic_Hunt_in_the_Berber_sky_a_phylogenetic_reconstruction_of_Palaeolithic_mythology._-_Les_Cahiers_de_lAARS_15_93-106

 

quite interesting.

 

Quote

Our phylogenetic approach of myths allows us to : 1/ confirm the Palaeolithic datation of the Cosmic Hunt linked to a horned herbivore, 2/ reconstruct the first version of the myth, 3/ cor- roborate the hypothesis of a European post-gla- cial human recolonization of Europe and a part of North Africa from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge, 4/ prove the existence of a mythological root common to Berbers and European hunter- gatherers, 6/ document at least four migrations from Eurasia into America and suggest that there was reverse migration from Eurasia to Africa, 5/ find support for the punctuated evo- lution of myths, 6/ offer some suggestions to interpret prehistoric rock art images that should be discovered. Thus, the study of human mytho- logy directly opens up new ways for genetics, archaeology and rock art researches.

 

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Franco-Cantabrian_region.gif#/media/File:Franco-Cantabrian_region.gif

Edited April 1, 2020 by Apech

[Taomeow]

The thalamus is the center for processing sensory information and for pain perception.  

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, ऋषि said:

GOTTA LUV IT!!!

(or else........)

 

 

 

I don't recall spamming you (or anyone else for that matter) so I'm assuming you meant to post this somewhere else and made an honest mistake.  Could you please delete that contribution from here?  

[Taomeow]

@ ऋषि 

Congratulations.   

[Taomeow]

The tetramorph -- man, eagle, ox, lion.  A Sumerian astronomically derived deity that later transitioned into the New Testament as the Revelation to John, also known as the Apocalypse.

 

Have to agree that there's no apocalypse without heterochimeric creatures.  

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

The tetramorph of civilisation;  Man dog ox horse .

 

TM  ,  what do you think the Sumerian  astrological significance  of the  deity was ?   I  know the modern representation is the fixed elemental signs in the heavens .... but that might be a more modern notion ?

[Taomeow]

29 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The tetramorph of civilisation;  Man dog ox horse .

 

TM  ,  what do you think the Sumerian  astrological significance  of the  deity was ?   I  know the modern representation is the fixed elemental signs in the heavens .... but that might be a more modern notion ?

 

I seem to recall that it actually referred to the constellations that were positioned at the time at the four cardinal points, 90 degrees apart.  Precession alters the zodiac's relation to the seasons at a rate of one constellation every 2160 years (1 degree every 72 years).  The cardinal points shifted from one constellation to the next in approximately 6540 BC, 4380 BC, 2220 BC, 60 BC and AD 2100.  The system was used for creating and changing calendars -- and was thought of as corresponding to the changes of the ruling deities of the period, out with the old, in with the new.  E.g. the worship of the Sacred Bull -- Golden Calf -- Taurus -- was in full swing everywhere where's anywhere when the constellation became visible at dawn, coincident with the Sun being in the constellation.  I.e. circa 4480–2320 B.C.E.

 

The biblical prohibition on the worship of the Golden Calf actually derives from this system and originally meant something like, the times, they are a-changing, the Bull no longer rules so stop worshiping it, move on...  this is the age of Man, dude.  That's what was reinterpreted as meaning something different by those who lost their astronomical/astrological roots and took great liberties with the fragments of knowledge they retained, as is usually the case with all experts who lose touch with the history of their field of expertise and start making shit up.        

[Nungali]

Yes, I was wondering if the sculpture represented a significant arrangement or date for the Sumerians .

 

They ( I think it was the Sumerians)  also had a similar arrangement of stars  - the four royal stars . Half a mo'.

 

Ah ... it in my studies about Persians  ; Aldebaran, Regulus, Antares and Fomalhaut.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_stars

[mark]

Age of Capricorn?

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, mark said:

Age of Capricorn?

 

 

What about it ? 

[Apech]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

What about it ? 

 

 

Isn't the age of Capricorn after the Aquarian age i.e. in about 4000 AD.????

[Michael Sternbach]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Isn't the age of Capricorn after the Aquarian age i.e. in about 4000 AD.????

 

I guess he meant Age of Taurus.

 

(Both of these animals have horns.)

[Taomeow]

The new one after the Age of Taurus, the one we all know and love as AD or CE, was the Age of Pisces.  Fish equals Son of Man for reasons theologians might know better and I forget.  

 

 

 

As for the next one, the Age of Aquarius, much looked forward to in the famous song and hippie folklore, there's no consensus as to when exactly it's coming.  Wiki pushes it all the way to 2600.  But my Western astrology guru (I do my own Chinese astrology for the most part, but, being rather clueless in the Western variety, have to seek out who to trust), who calls himself an astrometeorologist, is mathematically gifted and studies, primarily, the Sun, asserts that it's just began on Thursday, March 19th, 2020.  I pay attention to what he has to say because, among other things, he routinely predicts the weather (not the climate which I can't personally verify) with mind-blowing accuracy a couple of years ahead and then season by season, month by month, location by location.  Whereas the official weather guys/gals are more often than not way off even with the next week's forecast.

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Isn't the age of Capricorn after the Aquarian age i.e. in about 4000 AD.????

 

 

Yeah , or  waaaay back  in the past  - an astrological 'Great Year'  is nearly 26.000   Earth years  long .

 

   We will have to ask Mark .... as I dont know what he is on about .

 

 

Oi Mark !  What you on about ?

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Taomeow said:

The new one after the Age of Taurus, the one we all know and love as AD or CE, was the Age of Pisces.  Fish equals Son of Man for reasons theologians might know better and I forget.  

 

Mathew 4 : 19  ? 

 

Spoiler

Its actually a misprint , Jesus was saying " I will make you fishes  AND men  .   Clearly Jesus was in on the conspiracy ;

 

 

Quote

 

As for the next one, the Age of Aquarius, much looked forward to in the famous song and hippie folklore, there's no consensus as to when exactly it's coming.  Wiki pushes it all the way to 2600.  But my Western astrology guru (I do my own Chinese astrology for the most part, but, being rather clueless in the Western variety, have to seek out who to trust), who calls himself an astrometeorologist, is mathematically gifted and studies, primarily, the Sun, asserts that it's just began on Thursday, March 19th, 2020.  I pay attention to what he has to say because, among other things, he routinely predicts the weather (not the climate which I can't personally verify) with mind-blowing accuracy a couple of years ahead and then season by season, month by month, location by location.  Whereas the official weather guys/gals are more often than not way off even with the next week's forecast.

 

I dont think there is any consensus on where the actual border is between Pisces and Aquarius .   The constellational maps we use now are fairly modern and in some cases, very strange  ( eg . a border runs along the side of an asterism , shoots out at 90 deg , goes around one remote star and comes back again to continue up the side of the asterism , )   In older times they use stars as markers  .  Also constellation got changed , 'they' cut off Scorpio's claws making it heaps smaller and gave them to  part of Libra which made Libra comparatively enormous.

 

One problem here is  The Astrological Ages are astrological but the idea of constellations and the EP moving through them is an astronomical process. So astrologers need to make their own constellational systems .  Your astrologer friend, mostly using the Sun , perhaps does it by ignoring the above and working on angular relationships  ( and maybe star markers ) . I know of some astrologers that ignore just about everything  except the angles the planets make with each other in relation to the Sun . 

 

Others judge it by looking at the asterism of Aquarius and considering its furthest stars as the boundary .

 

Even looking up the difference between these two is confusing , as the source material is confused ;

 

Constellation of Aquarius;

 

 

 

 

Asterism of Aquarius ;

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Yeah , or  waaaay back  in the past  - an astrological 'Great Year'  is nearly 26.000   Earth years  long .

 

   We will have to ask Mark .... as I dont know what he is on about .

 

 

Oi Mark !  What you on about ?

 

What's the size of the font about?  He asked a question that wasn't clear.  Is all.  What's to stop you from just asking "what do you mean?"  

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Mathew 4 : 19  ? 

 

Ah, yes, maybe that.  Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

Your astrologer friend, mostly using the Sun , perhaps does it by ignoring the above and working on angular relationships  ( and maybe star markers ) . I know of some astrologers that ignore just about everything  except the angles the planets make with each other in relation to the Sun . 

 

Nope.  When I said he primarily studies the Sun I meant that in addition to his astrological work he's got an education in solar physics, a branch of astrophysics studying the Sun.  I don't think he ignores anything, he's obsessively thorough.  

 

As for the confusion with the constellations, astrological ages, etc., I have to agree -- it's a bowl of spaghetti, a fragmented convoluted mess if you ask me, Western astrology is.  (As for astronomy, take a look at my latest entry in the "What books sit on your night stand" thread if you will.)  Which is why I chose to stay clueless and invest the past 20+ years into the study of Chinese astrology, a unified self-consistent science that you can actually grok to any depth you dare to reach and not get lost -- if you invest time and effort -- rather than dislocate your brain trying to reconcile the contradictions of its Western counterpart.  

 

  

[Taomeow]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

(nothing at all) 

 

 

Did I leave you speechless?..  I'm honored.

 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

What's the size of the font about?  He asked a question that wasn't clear.  Is all.  What's to stop you from just asking "what do you mean?"  

 

 

He appeared to have left the room so I was yelling so he can hear me.   Anyway, I think he is gone now  ? 

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

 

Ah, yes, maybe that.  Thank you.

 

 

Nope.  When I said he primarily studies the Sun I meant that in addition to his astrological work he's got an education in solar physics, a branch of astrophysics studying the Sun.  I don't think he ignores anything, he's obsessively thorough.  

 

regarding 'ignoring stuff ' .....

 

 

21 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

As for the confusion with the constellations, astrological ages, etc., I have to agree -- it's a bowl of spaghetti, a fragmented convoluted mess if you ask me, Western astrology is.  (As for astronomy, take a look at my latest entry in the "What books sit on your night stand" thread if you will.)  Which is why I chose to stay clueless and invest the past 20+ years into the study of Chinese astrology, a unified self-consistent science that you can actually grok to any depth you dare to reach and not get lost -- if you invest time and effort -- rather than dislocate your brain trying to reconcile the contradictions of its Western counterpart.  

 

  

 

 

I meant stuff like this .  There are a lot of recent accretions in western astrology and some astrologers do well by ignoring them and concentrating on essentials.

[Nungali]

4 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Did I leave you speechless?..  I'm honored.

 

 

 

I assume speechless is better than shouting ?

 

I'll try and keep it down until you get over the hangover , okay .

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

I assume speechless is better than shouting ?

 

I'll try and keep it down until you get over the hangover , okay .

 

Methinks 30+ years was enough time for me to get over the last hangover I ever suffered from, but if you are going to keep it down on account of me having one, I'm going to start working on it right now.  I've a three gallon bottle of vodka within arm's length.  I was using it to dilute 95% alcohol with, for herbal tinctures I'm making.  This way it's cheaper to get to the 50% alcohol I need for tinctures made with dry roots than to dilute the 95% alcohol with water, and I also need to keep enough of the 95% stuff undiluted for tinctures made with fresh herbs.  But for you, anything.  Starting that vodka party right now. 

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

I meant stuff like this .  There are a lot of recent accretions in western astrology and some astrologers do well by ignoring them and concentrating on essentials.

 

Makes sense.  Same thing with taoism.  Or anything for that matter.  

[mark]

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Methinks 30+ years was enough time for me to get over the last hangover I ever suffered from, but if you are going to keep it down on account of me having one, I'm going to start working on it right now.  I've a three gallon bottle of vodka within arm's length.  I was using it to dilute 95% alcohol with, for herbal tinctures I'm making.  This way it's cheaper to get to the 50% alcohol I need for tinctures made with dry roots than to dilute the 95% alcohol with water, and I also need to keep enough of the 95% stuff undiluted for tinctures made with fresh herbs.  But for you, anything.  Starting that vodka party right now. 

 

 

Makes sense.  Same thing with taoism.  Or anything for that matter.  

 

Out of curiosity what herbs/tinctures are you currently forging?