Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"

[Nungali]

Can you split this into another thread for a fuller discussion  ?   ..... please .

[Taomeow]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

Just for discussion.

 

Interesting.  Rings some bells...  I recognized the ancient Altaic Scythian tattoos (3:08) -- seen many of those, they are artistically  astonishing.  Scythians were originally nomadic warriors of Siberia and went everywhere -- Herodotus notes that the Scythians raided and exacted tribute from "the whole of Asia," but they were certainly quite all over Europe too.  Their burial sites known as kurgans, some of which I've seen in Eastern Ukraine and some of which my then-boyfriend, an archeologist/historian, personally excavated, are found all over Central Asia and Eastern, Western and Northern Europe. 

 

Then those two circles tattooed on the forehead of the woman at 2:58 -- I think I know what they stand for.  They are the symbols of Mara and Rod, two principal proto-Slavic deities.  Mara became the first of the "new gods" when the monotheistic worship of Makosh, the Great Mother, was superseded by the appearance of her "children" and/or priests.  Eventually Mara somehow replaced Mother Goddess and became the main one -- she was the goddess of illness, death, and the underworld, ruling alongside Rod (which is also the Russian for "genealogy, origin, family, blood lineage" derived from "rody" -- childbirth and present in such words as "rodina" -- "motherland" in Russian" and "family" in Ukrainian, "narod" -- the people, etc.)  Rod was the god of crafts and masonry, the creator of the human fate and later of the whole visible universe (while Mara was in charge of the lower invisible one.)  

[Apech]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Can you split this into another thread for a fuller discussion  ?   ..... please .

 

I can't split - maybe just start a new thread.

[Apech]

The whole issue of the movement of people's in that part of the world is amazingly complex.

[Nungali]

I think its amazingly complex since we became we and started moving about .

[Nungali]

23 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I can't split - maybe just start a new thread.

 

I m taking this as  ' maybe you start  a new thread '

 

I will , and I will comment later after I finish watching that vid . .....  (  and return from my snorkel     )

Edited January 19, 2020 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

Another detour to Egypt.  Apparently the pharaohs smoked tobacco and snorted cocaine...  and where did they get these goodies?  ???Mighty intriguing...

 

 

 

[Nungali]

Not really , it was nicotine found  and many Egyptian plants contain it .  The dope , well, they had that.  The '  cocaine '  ...... ?  

 

 

 

yeah ..... I'd probably sail in one of them little boats 1/2 way around the world for that   

 

 

some more info ;   https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2019/05/new-world-drugs-in-old-world-mummies/

 

 

[Taomeow]

15 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Not really , it was nicotine found  and many Egyptian plants contain it . 

 

Such as?

[Apech]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

Not really , it was nicotine found  and many Egyptian plants contain it .  The dope , well, they had that.  The '  cocaine '  ...... ?  

 

 

 

yeah ..... I'd probably sail in one of them little boats 1/2 way around the world for that   

 

 

some more info ;   https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2019/05/new-world-drugs-in-old-world-mummies/

 

 

 

 

Its usually put down to contamination from Victorian Egyptologists.

[Apech]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

Not really , it was nicotine found  and many Egyptian plants contain it .  The dope , well, they had that.  The '  cocaine '  ...... ?  

 

 

 

yeah ..... I'd probably sail in one of them little boats 1/2 way around the world for that   

 

 

some more info ;   https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2019/05/new-world-drugs-in-old-world-mummies/

 

 

 

Also it's a bit naive to think that trade routes consist of someone sailing half way across the world.  A more realistic model would be someone in South America trades with North Americans who trade with Greenland - who trade with Iceland - who trade with Ireland, who trade with Britain - who trade with Spain - who trade with North Africa - who trade with Egypt.  Thus products find themselves half way across the world.  Not saying this happened - just that its more believable.

 

 

[Taomeow]

8 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Its usually put down to contamination from Victorian Egyptologists.

 

And if Egyptologists were snorting coke, it just further confirms my usual "they can't be trusted" attitude toward officialdom in these matters.   Modern ones are probably more into synthetic opioids, which might puzzle the next generation of Egyptologists when they discover that the pharaohs were somehow able to lay their hands on oxycodone.   And the generation after them will wonder about microchipped mummies.   

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Such as?

 

see my 'more information link .

 

Or look up any  (non woo woo )  link  on the subject .  Its well published now .

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Its usually put down to contamination from Victorian Egyptologists.

 

 Also with the nicotine perhaps . 'Tobacco water' was sometimes used as an insect repellent to stop mummy damage .

 

A mummy would seem a great place to hide your coke  (unless Zawi Hawass turns up  ... he can sniff it out from 500 meters I have heard  ! )

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Also it's a bit naive to think that trade routes consist of someone sailing half way across the world.  A more realistic model would be someone in South America trades with North Americans who trade with Greenland - who trade with Iceland - who trade with Ireland, who trade with Britain - who trade with Spain - who trade with North Africa - who trade with Egypt.  Thus products find themselves half way across the world.  Not saying this happened - just that its more believable.

 

 

 

Yeah but ....

 

imagine how cut it would be by then  ..... as badly as Aussie coke  probably !

[Nungali]

here is Zawi

 

 

 

 

 

note the terrible effects of nose damage from  cocaine long term snorting ....  as depicted on sphinx .

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

And if Egyptologists were snorting coke, it just further confirms my usual "they can't be trusted" attitude toward officialdom in these matters.   Modern ones are probably more into synthetic opioids, which might puzzle the next generation of Egyptologists when they discover that the pharaohs were somehow able to lay their hands on oxycodone.   And the generation after them will wonder about microchipped mummies.   

 

Yes, we have ancient Egyptian descendent down here that are keen on that nasty stuff .

 

Spoiler

 

 LOVE the subtitles 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Nungali

[silent thunder]

Does anyone else recall the Archeologists who claimed to have found the wreck of an Egyptian vessel in the waters off the coast of Brazil?  The discovery would be over twenty years ago, closer to thirty.  Early 90's.  No recall of the source, but it was not sideline news, it was a major carrier and the original story was followed up.  Seem to recall it remarked on in a book as well, about morphological similarities in Southern America and North Africa as represented in sculptures and bust carving found throughout S. America.

 

Before they could get back and really dig into the discovery, they found the Brazilian Government had dumped over it and any traces were buried under tons of refuse and garbage... anyway, just jogged what was a very intriguing memory for me back then... a story I retold many times over the years. 

 

 

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Does anyone else recall the Archeologists who claimed to have found the wreck of an Egyptian vessel in the waters off the coast of Brazil?  The discovery would be over twenty years ago, closer to thirty.  Early 90's.  No recall of the source, but it was not sideline news, it was a major carrier and the original story was followed up.  Seem to recall it remarked on in a book as well, about morphological similarities in Southern America and North Africa as represented in sculptures and bust carving found throughout S. America.

 

Before they could get back and really dig into the discovery, they found the Brazilian Government had dumped over it and any traces were buried under tons of refuse and garbage... anyway, just jogged what was a very intriguing memory for me back then... a story I retold many times over the years. 

 

 

 

 

No ... nothing.  But I did find a Peruvian reed   cat boat  - for Taomeow .

 

 

 

 

 

The only other boat I found underwater in Peru ;

 

 

Submarine captured in Peru with tonne of coke was Mexico-bound

[Apech]

Roman faucets from 79 AD discovered in Pompei:

 

 

... quite impressive eh?

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

Roman faucets from 79 AD discovered in Pompei:

 

 

... quite impressive eh?

 

Very impressive !    But ummmmm ....  what they made out of ?

 

But lead also was known to be dangerous and, for that reason, pipes made of clay were preferred—as Vitruvius, who wrote during the time of Augustus, explains.

"Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious, because from it white lead [PbCO3, lead carbonate] is obtained, and this is said to be injurious to the human system. Hence, if what is generated from it is pernicious, there can be no doubt that itself cannot be a wholesome body. This may be verified by observing the workers in lead, who are of a pallid colour; for in casting lead, the fumes from it fixing on the different members, and daily burning them, destroy the vigour of the blood; water should therefore on no account be conducted in leaden pipes if we are desirous that it should be wholesome. That the flavour of that conveyed in earthen pipes is better, is shewn at our daily meals, for all those whose tables are furnished with silver vessels, nevertheless use those made of earth, from the purity of the flavour being preserved in them" (VIII.6.10-11).

 

 

[Nungali]

Way before Romans ;

 

" The scope of this study is the presentation of the most characteristic examples of

extant hydraulic works and related hydro-technologies in Minoan Crete. "

 

https://watermark.silverchair.com/564.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAgowggIGBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggH3MIIB8wIBADCCAewGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMqIEHka5M4FzUQninAgEQgIIBvZUD9pITKuHHnbtvXMMEydn9yPusaSiVHEmWPVqpoXoXG6VUbIxuhXJth9AmdzWQgTVnUjxFx9cZnVePw-soQEWcYvJ1482TExaTQxV6WpZt8jLf_mBZuHxyMzvFPxdbmgG0tevBmDMlQKZ_zgd5UELhxOR4EW6WI8yKOerVqmwEUeiMH3U3bp8qHOVVbtfuZRLhi2kZLI6_piDMv7gFSQHcJIG9EwL9NUtpoVMSkAHYsFr1vBR_HbivgCVt56IrWcp_DqgsChUduslnmtfFQGsp2dDU7PCpBZz1pQabOvub2lj0mpx_-_t_gCcE8MJ22IGw8KB-gxV8RcFCzbWVw_QWgBMODfj908As-gIES-0D3wqlXlkRsbsVpcRWikWlVDk2SrHr34urMDf0-5x_9AiDbTSfMcUNmMMENbHUXOXs2noWq8QMV7vpEV7H8D2MSuPr0XoalLeQUi3vOR4U4p31FZbYF53lmd7g-Nr5iZ-j1w7SicAMGT8JSTB2iWe6KRU8v4bjK1XwFsZVYC3N3VwPUPVl1HOdWekcRzorMUQxSQ7svOjI97XLFWOHFc3bCJFXTi1ACvLRIL521Vo

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Nungali

[Nungali]

 

Minoan water supply pipes (terracotta pipe sections): (a) overview, and (b) with real dimensions (From reference 5). Water supply in the Palace was provided through a network of terracotta piping located beneath the Palace floors. The pipes were constructed in sections of about 60 to 75 cm each.  

[Apech]

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Minoan water supply pipes (terracotta pipe sections): (a) overview, and (b) with real dimensions (From reference 5). Water supply in the Palace was provided through a network of terracotta piping located beneath the Palace floors. The pipes were constructed in sections of about 60 to 75 cm each.  

 

Sure I wasn't trying to set up a 'whose was the best plumbing' thing - I was was just struck by the quality of those Roman faucets - which by the way look like copper or possibly bronze - while the pipe is lead (which would be ok if the water is hard).