Celibacy, and also MCO

[Raúl]

Hi, first, I don't know if this is the correct section for this discussion, but I'm new and thought that this is the one that it most fits in.

 

The topic is celibacy and energy, and microcosmic orbit.

 

My situation is that I don't have a master, I am a 22 years old guy, very talented musician, I have read a lot, I consider myself wise, independent, and capable.

 

I am trying to stop my ejaculations, for the benefit of everything, specially my job, studies and personal relationships. Since I am young, healthy and have good genetics, my libido is pretty high. We could say that is maybe because of how indulgent and abusive I have been with masturbation throughout my life, that my libido is high. But it is also because I am healthy and have plenty of life in me.

 

I have stopped masturbation obviously, more than a year ago by now. I was some time using masturbation as a tool to release the fantasies I had created in relation to porn, which has been very supportive. But I got to a point of having to grow up. Then I joined no fap and stared to have strikes of days without masturbating. And it has been a long process, that I still working on, from the big to the small. The last thing I added to my list of work was not looking at women to judge their physics, and not look for them in the street. It's like an habit, and I realized that this was feeding my libido in a bad way. There is a good libido in me, which is the one that after for example 11 of no ejaculation makes me a literal demigod. 11 days is not much, but as I said I have pretty good genetics and energy levels.

So, I know seeing beauty in women is natural, biological. But I also, want to understand how it works, so it does not work against me, and my mind does not feed on it to charge my sexual organ.

 

So, I am working with everything about masturbation, I am working also with memories, like for example the one I have about one relationship I had of 2.5 years. I am clearing everything, and it is the best decision I have ever done, and if you know what I am talking about you'll understand.

 

My goal, my ideal, would be to use sexual pleasure only to create children, the day I decide to marry a woman.

 

That is my ideal, but maybe because of my past abusive relationship with masturbation and porn, or maybe just because of my healthy natural libido and testosterone, that is quite hard. For me, consciously, it's not hard, because I don't like masturbating, I have nothing against it, I think it is cool, but as I said my ideal would be to use it only to create children. But, consciously I get away with it. But my reality says, hey, it's not how thinks work, you are not a master and you will have nocturnal emissions. And that is kind of my issue, once my energy reaches a certain point of healthiness, it will discharge while I am sleeping.

 

This has had very bad consecuences. It's not only that I am 2 or 3 days depressed because of an unhealthy level of energy after it happens, it has ruined some personal relationships, and even my job. For example I had a stroke once, I was charging myself for 11 days, and the next 2 days I had a concerts. But, that night I had a noctural emission without fantasy, and then I knew what would happen. Next days I had no energy, I played very bad, I couldn't make my friends laugh or anything, it was a disaster. Because I had lost my semen the previous day. This brought me to a scary situation, where I would have to go to sleep not knowing if the next day I would wake up dead or not. You may think that it is normal or it not normal, but I know it is not how things are supposed to be. We could aswell discuss the topic of wether due to my past of porn addiction, in my ejaculation, even if I have really worked on it and relaxating myself ans releasing the fantasies etc etc for a long time, I lose more energy than the avarage person. Meaning, people are able to work normally even they ejaculate the previous day, but I am all anxious because my body energy is in deficit. This is up to debate, and I am not sure of it, and not even know if it adds something to the topic.

 

So, I was in that situation and started adding to my routine of yoga stretches, stretches specifical for the kidneys, a lot of them, and to strength the lower abdomen.

 

I believe this had helped me because, tonight, I was full of energy and I had a short sexual dream which is rather unusual, and, while I knew that orgasm was coming, and I knew it was my body doing it while in that unconcious and I could do nothing to stop it, my prostate relaxed. It was something that I have been practicing, relaxing the PC muscle, but I didn't know that if done in that way I would achieve that. So, I saw the orgasm coming, and in the dream I saw a circle (which was my prostate) and I expanded fully that circle to relax it. The result was my testicles not going so up and close to the body, and my prostate not contracting to release the semen. The result of that was an orgasm achieved by relaxation, that felt exactly like an orgasm, but which had not depleted me because I had not released my semen. Even if I obviously had released some energy with that orgasm. I imagine that this technic can be used to make long sexual intercourse and highly satisfy your partner.

 

I don't know if this is a solution, I once knew a very smart guy with very high level of energy, that told me he masturbated and had orgasms without ejaculation. But this is all very knew to me, so I would like guidance of people more advance than me and that value the virtue of celibacy as much as me.

 

Also, in relation to micro cosmic orbit, I started recently to do some exercices with it, and I have noticed that you are able to move your energy in a very interesting way, reminds me of playing music, but through your entire body. And I suppose this has benefits in itself, but the one I have noticed is that it clears my blockages of energy. For example one day I woke up sexually aroused, but in a rather bad way... And I had this block of energy like a magnet in the base of my pennis. When I did the microcosmic orbit, it had released and I was refreshed, so I could continue my day normally and focus on using my energy for it's true purpose.

 

I'd like, if possible, and if anybody wants to support me, guidance in relation to how to deal with ejaculations, and if what I achieved is a good solution.

 

And also, information about microcosmic orbit meditation. What paths do you recommend to do, and if it can support me to gain more controll over my energies specially in relation to masturbation/sexual energy.

 

Thank you!!

[Andy_W]

Hi Raul,

 

You seem to be fixated on ejaculation and energy wastage and your too young to be worrying about this. The worry will drain your energy more than ejaculation! I don't know what you've been reading but I would focus on a meditation to make the mind serene and peaceful. Take your pick, a good one would be anapanasati (mindfulness of breath) a Buddhist meditation with lots of resources online, better still go to a local Buddhist teacher. The fruit of this practice is calming energizing and can be quite blissful once you get good at it.

 

For physical energy good diet and an exercise plan will cover it. Please don't worry about releasing semen it will lead nowhere and will do more harm than good in my opinion.

 

That kind of practice requires a good foundation in meditation and a very good teacher, it is also unnecessary for spiritual growth which is the point of the practice, just one path amongst many...

 

Good luck :)...

 

 

[rphi]

Hi Raul, first of all, I have the same opinion as Andy. Your worries could’ve drained you more than the ejaculations, and you might’ve built yourself a strong belief that your body will be energy deficit after ejaculation.

 

But since you’ve found your way, congratulation, you might be on your path to non-ejaculatory orgasm (there are some topics here about whole-body orgasm , also soul orgasm, the search is your friend!)

[Raúl]

Hello, this is me calmed, relaxed, and meditative. I wish with all my heart that the energy deficit after nocturnal emissions for the following days was just my imagination xD but unfortunately it is not... And musicians are very sensitive to this since all we do in concerts is feel energy with the music and express it. I am sorry if I seemed too anxious while writing the post, but it is more or less how I feel, I don't like ejaculating if it not my choice, I love being young and I want to preserve my energy, and I think celibacy is one of the most important topics for men of any age. 

 

Thank you both for your words, I'll take them into consideration

[Andy_W]

Hi Raul,

 

You were asking for advice...good energetic feelings aren't just in the domain of ejaculation or not...theres a lot more going on...getting off on some good African rhythms beats orgasm Any day:)...Just saying about fixating...

[Raúl]

5 hours ago, Andy_W said:

Hi Raul,

 

You were asking for advice...good energetic feelings aren't just in the domain of ejaculation or not...theres a lot more going on...getting off on some good African rhythms beats orgasm Any day:)...Just saying about fixating...

I am musician so I guess I can talk about african rhythms, African rhythms beat orgasms, if you haven't had orgasms and have the energy. If you are in an energetic deficit, you are not going to feel the music, that is precisely what I am saying. Good energetic feelings depend on your physical body, which depends on diet, exercices, meditation, no drugs, no masturbation, no pointless entertainment like videogames,... Etc etc.

I always appreciate advices, but what you are saying is naive

[freeform]

12 hours ago, Raúl said:

I want to preserve my energy, and I think celibacy is one of the most important topics for men of any age. 

 

How do you know? What source of information had you come to this conclusion?

[Raúl]

13 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

How do you know? What source of information had you come to this conclusion?

Well for me I know it first based on my personal experience. It is what ejaculation does to me, it brings me down, and it transforms the resources in my body that I can use to live and feel, into mind energy that after the experience it's gone, maybe I am the only one feeling this process, every body is different and works differently and has a different past.

 

If however this experience is unknown to you and you do not relate to it in any way, the last wise master I have been listening to is called Mantak chia. He says what every Taoist knows, the sexual organ is one of the greatest source of energy, and it deserves special attention.

[Raúl]

What I mean by celibacy, is using sex only to create life, that would be the ideal!

[Andy_W]

Hi Raul,

 

Yay to African music :)...the hearts energy seems different than  the sexual energy from the organs... I'm much not a Mantak fan and heard a few bad stories about going against the bodies natural outlets or pleasures 

 

Let it be!

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Andy_W

[Raúl]

2 hours ago, Andy_W said:

Hi Raul,

 

Yay to African music :)...the hearts energy seems different than  the sexual energy from the organs... I'm much not a Mantak fan and heard a few bad stories about going against the bodies natural outlets or pleasures 

 

Let it be!

 

 

May be  but both are lost in a ejaculation though. I am not his fan neither, but since I am a newby anything I listen/read is usefull. 

Thanks for the advice, I'll let it be, after I have learnt to have orgasm without ejaculation

[freeform]

On 30/08/2019 at 9:42 AM, Raúl said:

wise master I have been listening to is called Mantak chia.

 

Yup - that’s what I thought. Many of us are familiar with Chia.

 

Unfortunately Chia is known to have got it wrong - badly wrong. Sadly what Chia teaches has caused many problems for people. Sometimes severe problems. He took practices completely out of context, misunderstood them and changed them and then marketed them to the west. 

 

It’s not your fault for believing him. He makes a pretty compelling case. And it’s true that initially you do get an increase in perceived energy when practicing celibacy - so of course it all seems legitimate.

 

But unfortunately it’s not. And I know that it’s destroyed people’s lives.

 

What you're feeling (getting severely depleted after ejaculation) is one early symptom of doing Chia based retention.

 

Originally retention/celibacy was practiced for specific periods of time on retreat and along with specific practices and strict rules and in complete isolation. 18hrs a day you do your practices. Your meals are cooked for you and left at your door (you’re not meant to talk, listen to music or read anything apart from texts that are necessary for this cultivation). Usually this is for 3 months or so.

 

The idea is to ‘still’ the essence. Meaning that as the essence builds through retention, it is brought to ‘stillness’ with full-time meditative and energetic practices along with being in complete isolation and adhering to a strict diet (very simple, unstimulating food).

 

Normally when essence builds, it seeks stimulation, it seeks to express itself through your base desires (sex, power, survival, pleasure etc). But the Daoists aimed to have the essence build, and by being denied stimulation, and through full-time daily practice they bring it to stillness and refine it into another form of energy that can then be used for spiritual practices.

 

If you allow essence to build without such practices, without a special diet, without isolation, it basically starts to strongly fuel your base desires - which at first feels good, but over time starts to deplete you and create other problems.

 

The best case scenario is that you lose this now over-stimulated, sexualised essence through nocturnal emission. 

 

The worst case scenario is a range of serious deviations.

 

One is known as Poison Fire Tainting The Heart - basically the now sexualised essence, which isn’t allowed to be expressed through sex, rises and ‘taints’ the heart. The result is a gradual increase in ‘deviant’ sexual urges. 

 

Another one is called Entering The Fire To Invite Demons. That’s when this out of control essence rises to the head and creates mental disturbances - psychosis, schizophrenia etc.

 

Often the two go together.

 

Obviously it’s rarely talked about in public. But it’s common. It’s common in Mantak Chia’s school, and it’s common in other traditions that misuse celibacy (catholic priests?).

 

One of Chia’s senior teachers was arrested after threatening a bouncer of a strip club with a samurai sword - because the bouncer threw him out for trying to molest the strippers... And we only know about this one because it was reported in the papers. There are many other such cases that we never hear about.

 

I’m not telling you this to scare you. You’ll figure out what’s good for you by yourself. It’s just that Chia has a lot of publicity around his methods, but then the true end results of these practices are not talked about in public.

 

So I just want you to see the other side of the coin.

 

It’s very much up to you what you decide to do with this information.

[Raúl]

9 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Yup - that’s what I thought. Many of us are familiar with Chia.

 

Unfortunately Chia is known to have got it wrong - badly wrong. Sadly what Chia teaches has caused many problems for people. Sometimes severe problems. He took practices completely out of context, misunderstood them and changed them and then marketed them to the west. 

 

It’s not your fault for believing him. He makes a pretty compelling case. And it’s true that initially you do get an increase in perceived energy when practicing celibacy - so of course it all seems legitimate.

 

But unfortunately it’s not. And I know that it’s destroyed people’s lives.

 

What you're feeling (getting severely depleted after ejaculation) is one early symptom of doing Chia based retention.

 

Originally retention/celibacy was practiced for specific periods of time on retreat and along with specific practices and strict rules and in complete isolation. 18hrs a day you do your practices. Your meals are cooked for you and left at your door (you’re not meant to talk, listen to music or read anything apart from texts that are necessary for this cultivation). Usually this is for 3 months or so.

 

The idea is to ‘still’ the essence. Meaning that as the essence builds through retention, it is brought to ‘stillness’ with full-time meditative and energetic practices along with being in complete isolation and adhering to a strict diet (very simple, unstimulating food).

 

Normally when essence builds, it seeks stimulation, it seeks to express itself through your base desires (sex, power, survival, pleasure etc). But the Daoists aimed to have the essence build, and by being denied stimulation, and through full-time daily practice they bring it to stillness and refine it into another form of energy that can then be used for spiritual practices.

 

If you allow essence to build without such practices, without a special diet, without isolation, it basically starts to strongly fuel your base desires - which at first feels good, but over time starts to deplete you and create other problems.

 

The best case scenario is that you lose this now over-stimulated, sexualised essence through nocturnal emission. 

 

The worst case scenario is a range of serious deviations.

 

One is known as Poison Fire Tainting The Heart - basically the now sexualised essence, which isn’t allowed to be expressed through sex, rises and ‘taints’ the heart. The result is a gradual increase in ‘deviant’ sexual urges. 

 

Another one is called Entering The Fire To Invite Demons. That’s when this out of control essence rises to the head and creates mental disturbances - psychosis, schizophrenia etc.

 

Often the two go together.

 

Obviously it’s rarely talked about in public. But it’s common. It’s common in Mantak Chia’s school, and it’s common in other traditions that misuse celibacy (catholic priests?).

 

One of Chia’s senior teachers was arrested after threatening a bouncer of a strip club with a samurai sword - because the bouncer threw him out for trying to molest the strippers... And we only know about this one because it was reported in the papers. There are many other such cases that we never hear about.

 

I’m not telling you this to scare you. You’ll figure out what’s good for you by yourself. It’s just that Chia has a lot of publicity around his methods, but then the true end results of these practices are not talked about in public.

 

So I just want you to see the other side of the coin.

 

It’s very much up to you what you decide to do with this information.

Hey, thanks for sharing. It's interesting what you say, and I knew already what the increase of energy through celibacy can do to an unprepared person. I believe what you are saying about Chia lol and I didn't know celibacy is taken so seriously by some people, thinking about it, doing a celibacy like that would be the ideal.

 

Unfortunately (from the perspective of celibacy being dangerous), I have always been very independent and I have confronted danger since I was a child, I know myself much more deeply than the avarage person, and I am more than ready to have longer strikes. I am doing everything in my power to be committed to reach my goals a be a better human being, and my whole intelligence tells me this is the moment for me to do this. Have been working already a lot to get to this point. And I choose to find a balance within me in which I teach my body to have longer and longer strikes, I am responsable for my own acts, and I know for everything I do there will be an effect. I am more than willing to take the risk and believe in myself, I do it gladly. And if it destroyes me so be it, I don't have fear, I have proven myself to myself other times, I have always been alone, and nothing will keep me from achieving my true potential, I'll die trying that.

 

But I don't know, I am a stupid avarage 22 years old man, you'll probably find me doing porn in the same cycle banging random girls and having panic attacks because life is not real. I honestly accept it as a possibility lol I would have to know what would I do if I was in that scenario to be prepared.

 

Anyway, I appreciate you have opened that perspective within me, I have to be prepared in case I am not who I think am.

 

Oh and, in relation to my desires with celibacy, I just want to enjoy my hobby which is playing guitar, I want my body to be healthier, I want to see more to bring more into this life. I want to live my life doing what is good, treat humans equally and morally, share what I have, love and being loved, etc.

These are my goals, they may not be perfect, but for me they are god and they are a good god, one which is worth living and which can support everything that exists.

 

Greetings

 

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, Raúl said:

These are my goals, they may not be perfect

 

I think you have admirable goals

 

Celibacy though is not the way to get there. It will move you in exactly the opposite direction, I’m afraid. But sometimes you need to learn things for yourself, I get it

 

7 minutes ago, Raúl said:

I know for everything I do there will be an effect. I am more than willing to take the risk and believe in myself, I do it gladly. And if it destroyes me so be it

 

Oh it’s not you that I’m worried about so much. You have your own path to walk.

 

Sadly when it comes to out of control base desires and a ‘fire tainted heart’ it is other innocent people that suffer most.

[Sebastian]

Listen to Freeform my friend ... that is my advice, and I second everything he said about Chia.

 

Out of all the things you have listed, your wonderful goals and aspirations, none of them depend on celibacy. As one my teachers used to say "one process does not lead to another". You want to do all the things you listed ? Just do them. You don't need to take a detour. Celibacy only leads to celibacy.

 

But the mind gets so tight, it tries to convince you that you need *something* to do these things, and that this *something* is so special and that you're life would be lacking without it. And that you would never meet your goals without it.

 

Don't fall for it my friend. A natural life is already sacred. Why not be content with what you already have ? Doing retention practices at your age is not natural and it won't help because you need to heal your way of thinking first. The dangers free-form cautioned about are real.

 

I feel you are sincere in your aspirations, so look and see if you are sincere with the requirement of celibacy to meet these aspirations. And look at all the things you associate with celibacy, and see if they are balanced or decorated. Decorated through the readings of various authors like Chia or others. A natural life is a Divine life. Never let anyone sell you anything or place anything in between you and your natural life.

[Raúl]

51 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

Listen to Freeform my friend ... that is my advice, and I second everything he said about Chia.

 

Out of all the things you have listed, your wonderful goals and aspirations, none of them depend on celibacy. As one my teachers used to say "one process does not lead to another". You want to do all the things you listed ? Just do them. You don't need to take a detour. Celibacy only leads to celibacy.

 

But the mind gets so tight, it tries to convince you that you need *something* to do these things, and that this *something* is so special and that you're life would be lacking without it. And that you would never meet your goals without it.

 

Don't fall for it my friend. A natural life is already sacred. Why not be content with what you already have ? Doing retention practices at your age is not natural and it won't help because you need to heal your way of thinking first. The dangers free-form cautioned about are real.

 

I feel you are sincere in your aspirations, so look and see if you are sincere with the requirement of celibacy to meet these aspirations. And look at all the things you associate with celibacy, and see if they are balanced or decorated. Decorated through the readings of various authors like Chia or others. A natural life is a Divine life. Never let anyone sell you anything or place anything in between you and your natural life.

Man, I am not arbitrarily saying these things. They all depend on celibacy, or if that word is misunderstood, in the preservation and proper care of semen and my own energy. It is purely based on my personal experience, I mentioned Chia because I was asked to mention a source.

 

I have tried playing concerts in the days after I have ejaculated, and what happens? The obvious, I don't have energy, which means more anxiety, less reward system, and I won't even be able to concentrate to dance or play my guitar like it should be played. This is basics. 

 

If your ejaculations don't have this effect in you, you are probably unaware of it because you don't have a deep level of connection to your physical body, or you have a different body, any possibility is open. I can see the reasoning of "you are going to respress your natural desire and become the opposite and end up hedonistic" from a mile. You could have used that with me at 16-19 years old, because it was a real possibility, not anymore, you are projecting your own stuff into me. You can say more or less concrete things to a person you don't know, like freesoul did, but the fact is that you don't know me.

 

For me, it takes 3 days to regain full motivation, physical resistance, etc, the 3 days rule is a known fact. In older people it may take a week to recover the body.

 

The only logical answer I get is that your ejaculations and mine are different. Mine let me dry and empty (I am talking about masturbation), I was even told once in a concert that I had no energy that there was no soul within me. And it was true. On the other hand, what has happened in the concerts I had my body in a good energy level? Dancing, laughing with friends, face red in the guitar solos. Is it really that hard to believe that ejaculation does have that effect on me?

 

I always appreciate support, but no matter what age you are you must be also be willing to listen to the other person.

 

If for you being 22 and being indulgent in sex worked, that's great! For me, I prefer to preserve my energy as much as possible and wait for the right woman.

 

Once I find her I'll have sex with her, and she will be satisfied as fuck that the guy preserved his energy, at least I have to do the right thing. And I'll try not to exhaust myself and commit myself to my work, which is what makes me happy.

 

In the meantime, as I already said, I'll learn to have orgasms without ejaculation, which I am pretty close to, to release excess of energy. And it's obvious that I won't have sex with a girl I don't love.

 

P.s: I was pretty okay with everything said by freesoul

[Andy_W]

Hi Raul,

 

I'd take freeform advice too, he wrote a great post. 

 

There are many other practices that will give you good we'll being energy, without the dangers. Standing stake chi gung and any samatha meditation practice will take you way beyond emitting semen or not. 

 

wish you well with your practices...

[Sebastian]

Hey Raul,

 

I was suggesting that it may be helpful to not think in terms of extremes, as a solution to anything. I hear you though. In this case, it might indeed be a case of lowering emissions for you, but why reduce them to 0 ? That's what I mean between balance and extremes. If you reduce them to 0, they likely will happen during the night. My advice is to release, naturally, when your lower centers are full, that way you won't take a big hit every-time. And to stay away from extremes, both ways, which means avoiding artificial stimulation with the mind or audio/video sending signals to the body, and full on retention. In between a sweet spot can be found. That's all I'm saying. And much love and good luck to you in your path. You're lucky to be a musician, enjoy your life.

 

Seb

[Raúl]

57 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

Hey Raul,

 

I was suggesting that it may be helpful to not think in terms of extremes, as a solution to anything. I hear you though. In this case, it might indeed be a case of lowering emissions for you, but why reduce them to 0 ? That's what I mean between balance and extremes. If you reduce them to 0, they likely will happen during the night. My advice is to release, naturally, when your lower centers are full, that way you won't take a big hit every-time. And to stay away from extremes, both ways, which means avoiding artificial stimulation with the mind or audio/video sending signals to the body, and full on retention. In between a sweet spot can be found. That's all I'm saying. And much love and good luck to you in your path. You're lucky to be a musician, enjoy your life.

 

Seb

Thanks for the advice, you kinda missed your chance though.

Wish you the same

[Walker]

Ah, the assuredness of 22, I remember you well...

 

Anyway,

 

I'm gonna make a guesstimate and say that thinking too much probably burns more jing in most people than ejaculation does. 

 

Brain = 髓海. Take it from there. 

[freeform]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with learning from ones mistakes - some of my best lessons have been learned this way.

 

One of my teachers used to heal Qi Gong deviations at his practice - so I’ve met many people who’ve messed themselves up from sex (and retention) based systems in particular.

 

This is what you can expect as you progress with this stuff.

 

At first celibacy gives you extra energy.

 

What happens is that by holding back from sexual activity, you create a sort of inner pressure. As you go about your normal life with all it’s stimulation, this ‘pressure’ grows in a certain direction. Think of your basic drives - survival, sex, power. You’ll feel yourself empowered in these areas - because your body isn’t getting its natural release, so it’ll create a stronger inner motivation to achieve these base desires.

 

This is why people report feeling more confident, more attractive, more switched on in social situations.

 

As you carry on with retention, you condition your body to run on this extra hormonal output. Your kidneys will need to work harder to keep up with the production. Add some hard work, late nights, drugs and alcohol and your kidneys will start to reach into their reserves to keep the energy going.

 

You'll notice that when you do ejaculate, you’ll feel particularly depleted. It’s because this hormonal cycle is broken, and you’re basically having a withdrawal.

 

Its important to understand that Chia got something fundamental wrong. Retention does not help to ‘retain your energy’. It just rewires your body to convert your essence to sexual fluid and related hormones - it makes your kidneys work much harder and over time depletes them (which you’ll only discover in your late 20’s and in your 30’s).

 

When the kidney depletion catches up to you, you’ll find that your lower body becomes very weak. Your knees will ache. Your lower back will ache. You’ll find yourself developing a sort of brain fog and fatigue. Often other organ systems will be affected - particularly the heart. You’ll notice palpitations and an irregular heart rhythm. You’ll find that your emotions and moods will shift wildly.

 

So if you start adding some of Chia’s sexual techniques, things suddenly get much more problematic. First thing he gets you to do is to mess with your ‘tubing’, so that you ejaculate into your bladder. Do this enough times and it messes with the valves in that area, and you’ll be releasing sperm into your urine whenever you feel aroused. It also creates a very hard to shift stagnation in that whole area. This takes decades to fix. Obviously losing sperm in your urine will further deplete you.

 

If you carry on with his microcosmic orbit methods, his big draw etc - then this is what happens.

 

Your sexualised energy moves to your heart and over time (few months if practicing regularly) you start to develop ‘deviant’ sexual urges - the innocence of your heart will be tainted by this, and you’ll find it hard to separate sexual thought from other base desires. You’ll begin to mix fear, violence, humiliation, power-play and depravity with sex. This is where it becomes an issue for other people too. 

 

Usually people are are a bit disturbed by this stuff starting - so they go back and forth - trying to be ‘pure’ with their intentions, but with this inner darkness that lies in the shadows. Even if you don’t act out your desires, this inner battle is extremely unhealthy and further drains your kidneys.

 

Retention by itself, without Chia’s Qi Gong, also produces this - but much more gradually over a longer period of time.

 

My teacher treated many cases of Poison Fire Tainting The Heart. For quite a few of his patients the end of treatment would have to include handing themselves over to the police and admitting their sexual crimes (paedophelia is quite common with this particular deviation).

 

If you manage to get the energy to your head, that turns into ‘Entering the fire to invite demons’. It’s not really demons, it’s just aspects of yourself... but the result is similar to psychosis. You become paranoid, can feel invincible, have huge mood swings etc etc... Tough one to recover from!

 

I know this all seems dramatic. It’s like telling someone the horrors of being a crackhead when all they’ve ever experienced is a line of cocaine. 

 

But just as some people do become crackheads - some people get very badly damaged by this stuff too. I’ve met many people that have been through this stuff. My teacher used to work on patients with these (and many other ) Qi Gong deviations. It’s not funny. 

 

The majority of people don’t take it that far of course. Usually they mess around with this stuff, then come to their senses and just have to deal with kidney depletion. That’s what happened with me anyway

 

PS - what to do instead. Moderate sexual activity. In your 20’s that means having normal sexual release 2 times a week. Avoid porn. Get into physical exercise and learn some proper Qigong. It takes longer, and it’s much harder work than simple retention, but you’ll develop a huge amount of vitality that can improve all areas of your life - without making you into a weird pervert, or a crazed lunatic - and with strong healthy kidneys. Then use it to help others or direct it into spiritual cultivation. And enjoy life 

 

good luck

[liminal_luke]

...   

Edited September 2, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Raúl]

14 hours ago, freeform said:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with learning from ones mistakes - some of my best lessons have been learned this way.

 

One of my teachers used to heal Qi Gong deviations at his practice - so I’ve met many people who’ve messed themselves up from sex (and retention) based systems in particular.

 

This is what you can expect as you progress with this stuff.

 

At first celibacy gives you extra energy.

 

What happens is that by holding back from sexual activity, you create a sort of inner pressure. As you go about your normal life with all it’s stimulation, this ‘pressure’ grows in a certain direction. Think of your basic drives - survival, sex, power. You’ll feel yourself empowered in these areas - because your body isn’t getting its natural release, so it’ll create a stronger inner motivation to achieve these base desires.

 

This is why people report feeling more confident, more attractive, more switched on in social situations.

 

As you carry on with retention, you condition your body to run on this extra hormonal output. Your kidneys will need to work harder to keep up with the production. Add some hard work, late nights, drugs and alcohol and your kidneys will start to reach into their reserves to keep the energy going.

 

You'll notice that when you do ejaculate, you’ll feel particularly depleted. It’s because this hormonal cycle is broken, and you’re basically having a withdrawal.

 

Its important to understand that Chia got something fundamental wrong. Retention does not help to ‘retain your energy’. It just rewires your body to convert your essence to sexual fluid and related hormones - it makes your kidneys work much harder and over time depletes them (which you’ll only discover in your late 20’s and in your 30’s).

 

When the kidney depletion catches up to you, you’ll find that your lower body becomes very weak. Your knees will ache. Your lower back will ache. You’ll find yourself developing a sort of brain fog and fatigue. Often other organ systems will be affected - particularly the heart. You’ll notice palpitations and an irregular heart rhythm. You’ll find that your emotions and moods will shift wildly.

 

So if you start adding some of Chia’s sexual techniques, things suddenly get much more problematic. First thing he gets you to do is to mess with your ‘tubing’, so that you ejaculate into your bladder. Do this enough times and it messes with the valves in that area, and you’ll be releasing sperm into your urine whenever you feel aroused. It also creates a very hard to shift stagnation in that whole area. This takes decades to fix. Obviously losing sperm in your urine will further deplete you.

 

If you carry on with his microcosmic orbit methods, his big draw etc - then this is what happens.

 

Your sexualised energy moves to your heart and over time (few months if practicing regularly) you start to develop ‘deviant’ sexual urges - the innocence of your heart will be tainted by this, and you’ll find it hard to separate sexual thought from other base desires. You’ll begin to mix fear, violence, humiliation, power-play and depravity with sex. This is where it becomes an issue for other people too. 

 

Usually people are are a bit disturbed by this stuff starting - so they go back and forth - trying to be ‘pure’ with their intentions, but with this inner darkness that lies in the shadows. Even if you don’t act out your desires, this inner battle is extremely unhealthy and further drains your kidneys.

 

Retention by itself, without Chia’s Qi Gong, also produces this - but much more gradually over a longer period of time.

 

My teacher treated many cases of Poison Fire Tainting The Heart. For quite a few of his patients the end of treatment would have to include handing themselves over to the police and admitting their sexual crimes (paedophelia is quite common with this particular deviation).

 

If you manage to get the energy to your head, that turns into ‘Entering the fire to invite demons’. It’s not really demons, it’s just aspects of yourself... but the result is similar to psychosis. You become paranoid, can feel invincible, have huge mood swings etc etc... Tough one to recover from!

 

I know this all seems dramatic. It’s like telling someone the horrors of being a crackhead when all they’ve ever experienced is a line of cocaine. 

 

But just as some people do become crackheads - some people get very badly damaged by this stuff too. I’ve met many people that have been through this stuff. My teacher used to work on patients with these (and many other ) Qi Gong deviations. It’s not funny. 

 

The majority of people don’t take it that far of course. Usually they mess around with this stuff, then come to their senses and just have to deal with kidney depletion. That’s what happened with me anyway

 

PS - what to do instead. Moderate sexual activity. In your 20’s that means having normal sexual release 2 times a week. Avoid porn. Get into physical exercise and learn some proper Qigong. It takes longer, and it’s much harder work than simple retention, but you’ll develop a huge amount of vitality that can improve all areas of your life - without making you into a weird pervert, or a crazed lunatic - and with strong healthy kidneys. Then use it to help others or direct it into spiritual cultivation. And enjoy life 

 

good luck

Thanks man! I appreciate the sharing. I am glad that you have it so clear for yourself. For me, as with everything, I only trust in my experience, everyone's experience is different. So I'll experiment with celibacy, and keep what is good from it, as I am keeping what is good from your sharing. I will pay special attention to sexual depravaty/psychosis, and the health of my kidneys. It's not that I believe in your words or not, it's that I'll see it for myself to learn it, if it works, cool, if it doesn't, I'll keep growing. I don't have fear, and nobody should, wether it's celibacy or other thing, do not trust in the fear of other people, it's their own, you experiment with yourself and learn from that. This is what I have been doing my whole life and the only thing I trust. I also do not trust in people who need to say oh you are 22 you are as silly as I was with your age. Needing to say that makes you look dumb. Anyway, I only care about my own experience, that is my path, you should already know it unless you were too busy at 22 being dumb having sex or taking drugs.

 

Thanks everyone for the sharing, bye! 

[Raúl]

And by the way, I agree with the way freeform talks. He simply shares his truth, it is what he has learnt, and it is great that he shares what works for him! There will be different things that work for different people, this is something basic to know.

 

Please, stop having any intention to convince me of anything, wether you do it for the good of other person (everybody does it thinking that, even the most evil on the planet) or not. If something has worked for you, it does not mean you must have the intention to convince other people to have your own believes, that is ego and it's part of what makes this forum uglier than it could be.

You can however share unconditionally what has worked for you, which is what everybody should be doing in the forum.

 

For me, right now, celibacy is working and it is what I am working towards. I know a lot of smart people who deffend it, wether from ancient China or actual tao forums, and I neither believe in them. I'll simply test for myself to find out, like everybody should do before creating an opinion. And if someday I share what I have learned with someone else, I'll do it free or expectations, knowingly that what has worked for me does not necessarily have to work for everybody else, and there is no absolute correct answer.

 

Also, I never said 0 sex forever, I believe in balance, and it's up to me if I incline it to the side of celibacy or sexual expression, it is up to what each person consider as natural.

 

I don't believe in discussion/debates, they make this forum uglier than it could be. And treat me as a person and not as if I was you with 22 years old

Edited September 2, 2019 by Raúl

[freeform]

5 hours ago, Raúl said:

Please, stop having any intention to convince me of anything, wether you do it for the good of other person

 

I think people mean the best when they do that here. This forum has a long history of people coming to try and get some help after issues arose from Chia’s practices.

 

I personally think you’re completely free to experiment with your life the way you choose to - as I’ve said. I think you understand me. 

 

I’ve done great things, and I’ve done some pretty stupid things in my life - but I learned from everything. I was never one to blindly follow authority - and I wouldn’t expect you to either (I’m in no way any sort of authority either!)

 

It’s just worth you knowing what to look out for in case things start going bad - so you’ll remember ‘oh yeah there was that guy on that forum that warned about this’.

 

With not blindly following authority, it’s also worth keeping in mind that what is talked about as ‘ancient Chinese wisdom’ - is not ancient, and isn’t wisdom - its Chia’s very faulty interpretation of some out of context chinese texts he read and then ‘adapted to the west’ (made more sexy and palatable so that it actually sells well). So by all means try celibacy, but don’t fall for Mantak Chia’s marketing