Celibacy, and also MCO

[anshino23]

Thank you for those fantastic posts @freeform. Incredibly helpful and really explained so much to me. It's scary how quickly things can turn wrong in these internal arts. Really gives credence to the whole idea that one needs a genuine Teacher to lead one away from an errant Path. Often one cannot see one's own errors unfortunately. 

 

I showed this thread to one of my friends who has been practicing celibacy, and he has a question for recommendation. He doesn't have a girlfriend. What is the recommendation for release in that case? Masturbation twice per week?

 

Thanks again  

Edited September 2, 2019 by anshino23

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

He doesn't have a girlfriend. What is the recommendation for release in that case? Masturbation twice per week?

 

In his 20’s? Then yes. But avoid pornography.

[freeform]

4 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

It's scary how quickly things can turn wrong in these internal arts.

 

I think the scary bit is that you don’t know it’s happening until it’s too late. But it’s fine - life is a big experiment - and you get more than one go!  

 

When you get later down the path, doing alchemical type practices it gets much more dangerous if you don’t follow the correct instructions correctly. Many deaths with later alchemical work.

 

These practices (at least the genuine ones not based on imagination) are no joke - you’re literally messing with the building blocks of reality. There is nothing ‘natural’ about the internal arts!

[anshino23]

 

3 minutes ago, freeform said:

When you get later down the path, doing alchemical type practices it gets much more dangerous if you don’t follow the correct instructions correctly. Many deaths with later alchemical work.

 

Yeah, I remember reading that in Damo Mitchell's books as well in the chapter about merging yin and yang qi. Scary stuff. 

[anshino23]

13 minutes ago, freeform said:

In his 20’s? Then yes. But avoid pornography.

 

Yes, 28. Gotcha, will let him know. Thanks. 

[freeform]

9 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

Yeah, I remember reading that in Damo Mitchell's books as well in the chapter about merging yin and yang qi. Scary stuff. 

 

Yup. Even at the higher levels of Neigong things can get deadly, eg Jiang Feng, who died whilst giving a healing treatment with his advanced Yi Jing Jin skill.

[freeform]

So actually, celibacy and mantak chia don’t seem so bad in comparison

 

My biggest issue with it is that it can affect other people, not just the practitioner.

 

Actually, what I find interesting is that just having an imbalance of power creates a similar sort of issue as does ‘retention’. Think of all the people in power that start off meaning well, but turn out pretty depraved.

 

I think when our base desires get too much attention and energy, they become disturbed and turn into the darker aspects of our human nature.

[C T]

to the OP: You seem quite self-assured about the path you've chosen, so all the best. 

 

In addition to the pitfalls wisely pointed out by others here, I'd just like to add something that you may want to consider as a pointer to keep in mind: Dreams don't lie. Take note of them, for the frequencies of patterns and particular types of dreams show to you whether your practice is progressive, stagnant, or in decline. Rather than offering more of the same kinds of advice, as so much seems being snubbed, all I'd like to remind is to just "listen" to your own dreams. For eg., if practice is leading you in the right direction, you could have dreams of forgiving enemies, healing damaged relationships, visiting god realms filled with blissful sounds, colours and lights, and so on. If stagnant, usually its dreams of routine stuff like eating breakfast, having a shower etc., and if in decline, there'd be dreams that usually revolve around fearful events, having sex with demons, being suffocated in a black box, stuck in a maze, consuming poison and so on. So whichever kind is dominant will reveal much about the general state of your practice.  

[Walker]

Hi Freeform,

 

I am impressed with your knowledge, practice, and willingness to painstakingly explain things, but I cannot help but feel that you are offering a view of celibacy that does not reflect all of the things I observed and was taught while learning TCM (both in the universities and with doctors), the things many Daoists I highly respect have taught me (including but not limited to three teachers who are all on branches very distal to one another on the Longmen tree, and whose practices also differ greatly from one another), the things internal martial artists I respect have taught me, and my own personal experience. 

 

While I have never met a sensible Daoist, internal martial artist, or TCM doctor who denies reality (by which I mean to say, the reality that men--especially young men raging with hormones--sometimes simply need to ejaculate just to bloody be able to get to sleep, to say nothing of avoiding psychosis, qi deviation, or perversion), I have never heard any mention of what you are saying about the increase of energy followed by later damage to the kidney qi. I do not say this because I think you are wrong, but because I think there are other perspectives out there that may be valid to people engaged in different types of practices, people with different body types, people with different levels of sexual desire (it is worth remembering that some people assert that they feel little to no desire whatsoever and are quite healthy... the human body-mind is so variable that, for instance, there are women who never menstruate but can conceive healthy children, so I generally think it is very wise to avoid any "one-size-fits-all" teaching), people with different levels of 德, people whose meridians and organs are more or less 通, people whose diets are loaded with natural aphrodisiac foodstuffs versus those whose diets are extremely bland, sleep habits, season of the year, etc. 

 

Additionally, from what I gather you follow a very heavy, physical, youwei practice regimen, or at least a system where the foundation is laid in this way (forgive me if my interpretation is incorrect). Perhaps forcing celibacy upon oneself is especially dangerous for those using the practices you speak of. To be certain, I have heard that the lay Wudang Dragon Gate master 裴錫榮, for instance, taught his young male disciples a 精 generating physical method that could easily leave them highly aroused later in the day. Though I never met Master Pei, I know two of his disciples well, and neither would have a young man who cannot circulate the jing drive himself to the edge by attempting to avoid ejaculation at all costs if physical methods were causing too much sexual energy to build up. 

 

Nevertheless, there are also threads of Daoist practice which seem to be much more wuwei than what you often describe here, even at relatively early levels of practice, and it is common enough that as the body opens up energetically, the mind becomes increasingly tranquil, and the qi of the organs and meridians circulates of its own accord then sexual desire can drop markedly and the strong need to release, even in young males, may diminish notably. This can happen naturally and effortlessly. My observation is that, generally speaking, when changes occur in a wuwei manner, the chances of problems occurring are not very high (btw, I do not think that what the the OP describes has anything to do with such reactions to Daoist practice, and I think that generally speaking the cautions you've offered him are important to heed, most especially with regards Chia and his followers). 

 

I have also encountered methods of simple daoyin (you can find one on Google by searching for a video 瞬間强腎法) as well as more complex internal qi moving (運氣) which can be used to either boost kidney qi (strong kidney yang naturally holds jing in) or redistribute it in the body. Personally I have plenty of experience with both the wuwei and youwei sides of this coin, and while I do not seek to hold myself to any ironclad regime of ejaculation avoidance, I have gone many periods wayyyy past half a week without an orgasm since my mid-twenties without having to wear any bizarre Victorian anti-erection spike undies (aside: evidently that was a real thing), without destroying my reproductive organs, without turning into a pedophile, without developing any form of qigong psychosis, without ruining my energy levels, and so forth. 

 

Again, I wish to emphasize that I do not think that Freeform is wrong, nor do I think that my way is right--after all, I am no 仙人, so these are just notes that I hope will be taken with a goodly amount of salt and definitely not taken as gospel. That said, my study and experience is enough that I cannot read this thread without begging to differ. 

 

To the OP: you have offered a running critique of other people's posting styles in this thread. Are you yourself open to critique? If not, why not? 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Walker

[Sebastian]

On 9/1/2019 at 8:47 PM, Walker said:

I'm gonna make a guesstimate and say that thinking too much probably burns more jing in most people than ejaculation does. 

 

This was a very interesting observation. Because there are indeed many different kinds of fasts. Once my Master was telling me about his own experiences with celibacy over the years, but then he cautioned that fasting "as a process" was more important than what you were applying the process too. It depends with what you most resonate with, and what empowers you the most. 

 

He was saying you could fast of negative thoughts for example, it doesn't have to be only sexual. You could also literally fast and not eat once a week. But the main point is that if you take any one fast sincerely, let's say fasting from US news for example for a month, then it will have a real effect on you energetically. Fasting done like this will brew a sweet energy that pervades your entire being.

 

As Walker stated, thinking is a huge drain on our energetic resources, and if you don't get thinking in check it can sabotage all your other fasts. For example if you're celibate, but you don't fast mentally about the opposite sex. If you fast from sweets, but desire them all the time. To me, the most helpful fast would be to fast from yourself, from your ego's inner wants and needs. Then you can be more serviceable to the people in your immediate environment. Anyways, thanks for the discussion, now I'm going to think of a fast for the next 30 days  No more ice-cream, no not that one, darn !

[voidisyinyang]

To the mods - if there are any left - this thread should be in the men's training section. thanks

[freeform]

19 hours ago, Walker said:

Again, I wish to emphasize that I do not think that Freeform is wrong

 

I will not tolerate dissent!!

 

Only joking

 

Actually, I agree with much of what you said. What I believe is of importance to consider is context.

 

My reply was to the OP - who is living a normal life, isn't a cultivator, has that initial fervour from having just discovered Mantak Chia. And that's what's important.

 

As I say, I've lived with one of my teachers, who for a period of time, was offering Qi Gong healing (Wei Qi Liao Fa) - he was always sent the most difficult cases and the majority of them where serious qi gong deviation cases. So I've met many people that have had all the issues I describe (and worse!!).

 

The pattern was always a case of either - not having a teacher and mixing up methods they read about - or having a teacher but not listening to them (and sometimes having an unscrupulous teacher that tends to damage his students).

 

It is very different when you have a traditional, lineage teacher who knows what they're doing, has undeniable levels of skill and virtue and so do his or her senior students. Then simply listen to everything they say and do exactly what they tell you - don' listen to me (even if what I say contradicts them) - and certainly don't come looking for second opinions here on a public forum. If you're lucky enough to have such a teacher, and they're willing to teach you fully - then you must place 100% of your trust in them.

 

(The tricky part is knowing when you have a genuine teacher with skill, virtue and right methods - it's very rare )

 

If you're able to still your jing by whatever method (whether it's alchemical, energetic, through transmissions/empowerments, herbal preparations or by going into solitary retreat - usually a combination of these) - then retention can be very useful. I've done many 3-month celibacy rounds myself - but then I have several high-level teachers and I know what I'm doing.

 

That's not the case with 90% of visitors to this forum. And that's not the case with 99.9999% of Mantak Chia followers (my teacher treated several of those - one of whom, as I mentioned, had to hand himself to the authorities after treatment - that was the only way my teacher would agree to work with him).

 

And just not to make this a male-only thread, there is also a lesson here for women.

 

Again it's about context.

 

There is a practice that is used to stop menstruation. It works. But - it's designed primarily for renunciate nuns. Meaning they live in a tightly controlled environment, with 100% of their life focused on cultivation.

 

Problems occur when you use this practice to stop menstruation in 'normal' life (even as a dedicated practitioner!)

 

Menstruation helps to clear xie qi (pathogenic qi) and impurities / pathogenic substances in the blood. It's actually a pretty useful mechanism, something that men are missing out on

 

If you stop menstruation but carry on generating pathogens and impurities in your body and mind, then you're heading for disaster. And having heard stories from some of my teacher's patients - it really is a disaster.

 

So I want to re-emphasise - it's all about context with this stuff. Context is of primary importance. So many practices that are designed for renunciates get adopted by 'householders' - with disastrous consequences.

[Taomeow]

7 hours ago, freeform said:

There is a practice that is used to stop menstruation. It works. But - it's designed primarily for renunciate nuns. Meaning they live in a tightly controlled environment, with 100% of their life focused on cultivation.

 

And nuns pay the price for the practice in the form of the highest incidence of breast cancer of all professional groups.  (The lowest is in prostitutes.  However the latter get the highest incidence of cervical cancer of all professional groups.  Nature does not look kindly on either excess or deficiency.)   

[Walker]

On 9/4/2019 at 4:16 PM, freeform said:

I will not tolerate dissent!!

 

Only joking

 

Hah! I was about to say... stagnated loin fire rising to the heart much? 

 

Quote

Actually, I agree with much of what you said. What I believe is of importance to consider is context.

 

My reply was to the OP - who is living a normal life, isn't a cultivator, has that initial fervour from having just discovered Mantak Chia. And that's what's important.

 

Gotcha, and I understand. Although I still want to add a comment: I am surprised to hear masturbation twice a week be recommended. Again, I do not think this is wrong, and it might well be a wise teaching passed down in your school for some time. In this sense, I think of it a bit like a herbal formula designed to treat a certain pattern. One family of doctors might have their own tried-and-true herbal formula for a certain pattern that has been used to treat generations of patients, while another family of doctors' formula may contain very different herbs and be based on a different understanding of the qi of that pattern. So, while your suggestion may well be totally legitimate, I think it bears pointing out that plenty of other teachers in Chinese medicine and cultivation would say that, for a young man, there is no need to masturbate according to any schedule whatsoever, because when he builds up too much jing it will either come out during sleep, or he'll simply "handle" things on his own. A non-cultivating young man, therefore, can very healthily have several ejaculations a week, or also go several weeks without an ejaculation. The body is in constant flux and it's not that easy to go insane because of blue balls. 

 

Quote

As I say, I've lived with one of my teachers, who for a period of time, was offering Qi Gong healing (Wei Qi Liao Fa) - he was always sent the most difficult cases and the majority of them where serious qi gong deviation cases. So I've met many people that have had all the issues I describe (and worse!!).

 

This is very tragic. It is wonderful that your teacher was able to help these people 

 

Quote

So I want to re-emphasise - it's all about context with this stuff. Context is of primary importance. So many practices that are designed for renunciates get adopted by 'householders' - with disastrous consequences.

 

Sometimes with disastrous consequences, but there are also partnered householders who cultivate together and move towards less and less physical sex quite harmoniously. 男不解衣，女不鬆帶 is the term for their type of "love making," I believe. It means "the man does not strip his clothes, and the woman does not loosen her belt." As it's been explained to me by one teacher, this is less esoteric than it sounds. Simply, as truer and truer love is shared by two cultivators whose wisdom and proximity to the Dao is increasing, there is a natural, wuwei disinclination towards physical sex, because something else is being shared. For such people, a certain type of celibacy or near-celibacy comes quite naturally. But... it's probably a safe guess that not too many people experience this in a relationship, including cultivators. 

 

I think it's also worth remembering that, arguably, it was the renunciates in Daoism who adopted techniques from householders. Monastic Daoism, which in its widespread form is less than 1,000 years old, is a much later development than 火居 ("living near the hearth") Daoism. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Walker

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Walker said:

I am surprised to hear masturbation twice a week be recommended. Again, I do not think this is wrong, and it might well be a wise teaching passed down in your school for some time. In this sense, I think of it a bit like a herbal formula designed to treat a certain pattern.

 

Yup - you’re right. I think it’s really ‘up to twice a week’... the reality is that many young men are actually masturbating daily so 2 a week is already a stretch for them.

 

Once the Jing starts to stabilise one tends to lose this desire to masturbate - and that’s a natural progression. However holding your sexual impulse in while it wants out is not good.

 

3 hours ago, Walker said:

A non-cultivating young man, therefore, can very healthily have several ejaculations a week, or also go several weeks without an ejaculation. The body is in constant flux and it's not that easy to go insane because of blue balls. 

 

Yeah - you’re right. I think the OP’s situation is different.

 

I also remember my situation being different when younger. I’ve never had a wet dream. And I remember going through some time trying to retain - which worked, but caused issues.

 

3 hours ago, Walker said:

there are also partnered householders who cultivate together and move towards less and less physical sex quite harmoniously.

 

Yeah - paired cultivation. Definitely a householder approach. Interestingly it starts with physical ‘sex’ where the male does not orgasm (not just doesn’t ejaculate. Orgasm itself damages ‘yang’ in the body, the organs and depletes Jing)... the female needs to have lots of orgasms (having no orgasm damages the yin) but should not be penetrated... and yes eventually it leads to non physical intercourse. Unfortunately it’s out of reach for most of us in the first couple of decades of cultivation.

 

3 hours ago, Walker said:

I think it's also worth remembering that, arguably, it was the renunciates in Daoism who adopted techniques from householders. Monastic Daoism, which in its widespread form is less than 1,000 years old, is a much later development than 火居 ("living near the hearth") Daoism. 

 

That’s one thing that I really like about Daoism - that it’s possible to use it in a non-renunciate capacity. However, many of the deeper alchemical approaches (especially from the Quanzhen line) require periods of time dedicated to renunciation style cultivation. By renunciation I don’t mean monastic, but just away from society. I personally think that monastic life is very much against the spirit of Daoism.

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

Yup - you’re right. I think it’s really ‘up to twice a week’... the reality is that many young men are actually masturbating daily so 2 a week is already a stretch for them.

 

Once the Jing starts to stabilise one tends to lose this desire to masturbate - and that’s a natural progression. However holding your sexual impulse in while it wants out is not good.

 

 

Yeah - you’re right. I think the OP’s situation is different.

 

I also remember my situation being different when younger. I’ve never had a wet dream. And I remember going through some time trying to retain - which worked, but caused issues.

 

 

Yeah - paired cultivation. Definitely a householder approach. Interestingly it starts with physical ‘sex’ where the male does not orgasm (not just doesn’t ejaculate. Orgasm itself damages ‘yang’ in the body, the organs and depletes Jing)... the female needs to have lots of orgasms (having no orgasm damages the yin) but should not be penetrated... and yes eventually it leads to non physical intercourse. Unfortunately it’s out of reach for most of us in the first couple of decades of cultivation.

 

 

That’s one thing that I really like about Daoism - that it’s possible to use it in a non-renunciate capacity. However, many of the deeper alchemical approaches (especially from the Quanzhen line) require periods of time dedicated to renunciation style cultivation. By renunciation I don’t mean monastic, but just away from society. I personally think that monastic life is very much against the spirit of Daoism.

 

Four different teachers of mine, four different opinions on it based on their practice.

 

My Tai Chi/Neigong under Hairston/Randolph lineage says celibacy and orgasms do not drain your energy if you practice properly--all you are doing is changing the vibrational aspect of your practice. Nothing is lost or created because all energy is transformed/transmuted, according to the law of thermodynamics, stating that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

 

My Flying Phoenix lineage under Dunn says we do not worry about the loss of energy because it is a unique energy, but when practicing TTP, we lose cultivation from excess sexual release. 

 

My Xin Yi lineage under Rodriguez says that you can break the rules from time to time, but upon age 60, you will need to limit ejaculating sperm to be once a week as it will tire you out or make your back hurt.

 

My lineages (plural) under Dolic says that depending on age, how many orgasms you have can vary, but generally doing it in excess drains the well, whereas doing none at all without proper cultivation makes the well run stagnant.

 

My answer: it all depends on the system you practice. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Tryingtodobetter]

On 9/2/2019 at 11:39 AM, freeform said:

So actually, celibacy and mantak chia don’t seem so bad in comparison

 

My biggest issue with it is that it can affect other people, not just the practitioner.

 

Actually, what I find interesting is that just having an imbalance of power creates a similar sort of issue as does ‘retention’. Think of all the people in power that start off meaning well, but turn out pretty depraved.

 

I think when our base desires get too much attention and energy, they become disturbed and turn into the darker aspects of our human nature.

 

I dont really see how a lot of what you've stated in this post is true. I've heard of how erroneous some of mantak chias methods are regarding celibacy, though to cast the entire practice under such a dark lens is unfair.

 

There are plenty accounts of yogis/saints/monks etc who promote celibacy and tell of its actual power, not just placebo effects and destroying ones kidneys.

 

Brahmacharya for instance. It is an established system, of which I've heard little to nothing about in the ways of harm coming to a practitioners body/mind from following the methods.

 

I see where you're coming from, atleast partly I think

 

I find it odd and disheartening how so many spiritual figures of old have been fairly explicit about the/certain protocols one needs to follow to advance, and now so many teachers are adding their own twist and/or becoming more lenient-"open" in an attempt to make things "fun" 

[Tryingtodobetter]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:45 AM, Taomeow said:

 

And nuns pay the price for the practice in the form of the highest incidence of breast cancer of all professional groups.  (The lowest is in prostitutes.  However the latter get the highest incidence of cervical cancer of all professional groups.  Nature does not look kindly on either excess or deficiency.)   

 

I dont think most nuns have any concept of circulating stagnant energy or knowledge of meridians/blockages etc- I dont think most nuns are at all learned in intermediate/advanced energy cultivation, so I think that's an unfair statement

 

I don't know how celibacy works for women. I've heard some say it's just different from that of men, and some that said it wasn't real altogether(wouldn't yield the same "results" as it would for a man), idk. I think it's similar, maybe something to do with stopping the period

[Wu Ming Jen]

Jing is not sexual energy a major modern mistake such as Chia teachings used as a marketing plan that sex sells.

 

Sex is a neutral form of energetic exchange. energy is spirit in motion. sex is spiritual because sex is neutral, it can become a vehicle for what you value.

Sexual energy can be cultivated and directed to energize your manifesting power, stoke, your ultimate creative potential.

 

Sexuality is a bridge to the Divine. Dare to awaken it's potential to heal, restore, and guide you on your path. All things in moderation balance and harmony.

 

Having a good relationship with sex by not denying or encouraging sex or playing with ones self and allow things to be natural will keep energy from stagnating and to not become an obstacle on ones path.

[freeform]

23 hours ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

There are plenty accounts of yogis/saints/monks etc who promote celibacy and tell of its actual power,

 

You've missed my point.

 

The 'power' is not in celibacy... it's in doing the actual practices that these saints talk about.

 

Sometimes the practices include being celibate for a period of time - and if you have a genuine teacher that is teaching a classical method, you follow what s/he says and go through celibacy if that is what's required. If you're a 20yr old that decides celibacy is the answer to your problems, or you're practicing things from books and youtube videos, you are likely to do yourself some damage.

 

90% of what I've seen is not genuine, classical practice (a good indicator: if the practice involves visualizing energy movement, then it's probably not a genuine (Daoist at least) practice).

[liminal_luke]

On 13/9/2019 at 9:11 PM, Walker said:

 

 

Sometimes with disastrous consequences, but there are also partnered householders who cultivate together and move towards less and less physical sex quite harmoniously. 男不解衣，女不鬆帶 is the term for their type of "love making," I believe. It means "the man does not strip his clothes, and the woman does not loosen her belt." As it's been explained to me by one teacher, this is less esoteric than it sounds. Simply, as truer and truer love is shared by two cultivators whose wisdom and proximity to the Dao is increasing, there is a natural, wuwei disinclination towards physical sex, because something else is being shared. For such people, a certain type of celibacy or near-celibacy comes quite naturally. But... it's probably a safe guess that not too many people experience this in a relationship, including cultivators. 

 

 

Passion and and long-term love can coexist (I´m told) but more often than not don´t.  Even in the absence of conventional sex, I believe there´s still an energetic exchange between partners. I think that most people experience this in relationships, but perhaps we´re talking about different things. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by liminal_luke

[dwai]

The problem with celibacy is that it is meant to be taken along with specific monastic vows. If you want to be a monk and spend your days in meditation and prayer, celibacy is good. But the urge needs to come from within, not intellectually or socially imposed.

 

Best thing you can do is to stay away from pornography and have a healthy relationship with another human being. That involves love, sharing, caring and living life as a good human being (and I’m not suggesting that you aren’t). 

 

When you develop a loving relationship with another person, you open up your heart energetically too. It will expand you from your body-mind limitations to at least include another body-mind. 

 

Therein lies the key to cultivate your compassion and expand your mind.

 

All these energy cultivation etc are great, but don’t obsess with them. They’ll not help if you don’t cultivate compassion and love. 

 

Find the thing you love and do it to the best of your ability. 

 

Good luck.  

[dwai]

 

On 9/20/2019 at 2:05 PM, Tryingtodobetter said:

 

There are plenty accounts of yogis/saints/monks etc who promote celibacy and tell of its actual power, not just placebo effects and destroying ones kidneys.

 

Brahmacharya for instance. It is an established system, of which I've heard little to nothing about in the ways of harm coming to a practitioners body/mind from following the methods.

If you talk only about brahmacharya, that’s not enough. Brahmacharya is the first stage of development in the Hindu/Vedic tradition. After brahmacharya follows grihastāshrama (householder). Following that is vānahprasthāshrama (retiring to the forest for quiet contemplation) and finally sanyāsa (renunciation) where you perform your own last rites, give up your personal identity and relations, and dedicate your remaining life towards attaining moksha. 

 

If you mention the varnāshrama dharma you also have to consider the four purushārthas - dharma, Aretha, kāma and moksha. Live according to dharma, in the world, earn your living, contribute to society . Pursue sensory gratification too, so you don’t have any cravings to bind you to the world as you undertake the highest goal of moksha or spiritual liberation.  

 

[Tryingtodobetter]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

 

You've missed my point.

 

The 'power' is not in celibacy... it's in doing the actual practices that these saints talk about.

 

Sometimes the practices include being celibate for a period of time - and if you have a genuine teacher that is teaching a classical method, you follow what s/he says and go through celibacy if that is what's required. If you're a 20yr old that decides celibacy is the answer to your problems, or you're practicing things from books and youtube videos, you are likely to do yourself some damage.

 

90% of what I've seen is not genuine, classical practice (a good indicator: if the practice involves visualizing energy movement, then it's probably not a genuine (Daoist at least) practice).

 

There is power in celibacy itself.

There are readily observable changes when one refuses to spill their seed and adheres to uprightness.

When I say celibacy, i dont mean simply abstaining from sexual relations/actions. I mean abstaining in speech/deed and thought.

 

I do not see it as a standalone, rather something that serves as a pillar of my practice, or the amalgam I refer to as my practice. I also adhere, as best I can, to the eight precepts/10 commandments- when I start delving into many of the laws of maat unconsciously I know I'm doing well.

 

Also, additional things like being mindful of my mental diet, trying to keep good company and abstaining from certain energetic locales as best I can.

 

The above is what comprises my concept of celibacy, what is normal for me.

 

I read of saints and their miracles/practices for years while beginning the path I'm on. I see people promoting false ideas and personal narratives, though I just try to ignore those.

[Tryingtodobetter]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

 

If you talk only about brahmacharya, that’s not enough. Brahmacharya is the first stage of development in the Hindu/Vedic tradition. After brahmacharya follows grihastāshrama (householder). Following that is vānahprasthāshrama (retiring to the forest for quiet contemplation) and finally sanyāsa (renunciation) where you perform your own last rites, give up your personal identity and relations, and dedicate your remaining life towards attaining moksha. 

 

If you mention the varnāshrama dharma you also have to consider the four purushārthas - dharma, Aretha, kāma and moksha. Live according to dharma, in the world, earn your living, contribute to society . Pursue sensory gratification too, so you don’t have any cravings to bind you to the world as you undertake the highest goal of moksha or spiritual liberation.  

 

 

I do not plan on going the traditional route. I plan to make my living in relative isolation/obscurity and to move to a more rural setting when that is feasible. I am for the most part satisfied with the progress I am able to make in my current environment.

 

Compassion and love are good things, though neither requires romantic involvement as a prerequisite. I have found that my heart tends to close, and my creativity atrophy to an extent, when in an intimate relationship- probably something to do with making compromises and being dishonest with myself in order to maintain a close/romantic relationship with someone who does not believe in and/or does not follow the same principles I do.

 

Years ago I found the saying of a particular saint, his name escapes me in this moment, to be true. He said that there was no love greater than chaste love, and my experience thus far has proved that to be true beyond any doubt