Thoughts on Energy Arts / B.K. Frantzis

[Earl Grey]

9 hours ago, CloudHands said:

 

Sure what is the link between you all ?  US sounded like a group.

Simple curiosity !

 

The link is the common agreement across practices for disliking BKF.

[Integrated]

BKF isn't all bad, I don't doubt he got his ass kicked though.

Too many people holding lineage mantles are too occupied with everything but fighting.

They rest on their shadow-boxing fantasies as proof of their own merit.

 

He represents for me yet another perspective on Taoism.

I get that it can be controversial that there are more than one truth and canon in this world on different subjects.

But that is the world we live in, if that where not so, the world would have to be in absolute peace.

Somehow that is not so, which suggests that the matter is slightly more complex.

[CloudHands]

9 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

The link is the common agreement across practices for disliking BKF.

 

So it's a consortium !

[Earl Grey]

29 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

 

So it's a consortium !

 

I suppose.

 

At the moment I've said all I prefer to publicly about him knowing that people are fans of him on this forum and some are his students. The rest I only discuss privately with trusted individuals as to the specifics of why we don't go to him for healing qigong or for martial power or skill.

 

Given the level of martial and healing skills my four IMA teachers have, and their interaction with him, they have no reason to recommend him. And yes, I've tried his Dragon and Tiger qigong and was not impressed. 

[markern]

39 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

 

Given the level of martial and healing skills my four IMA teachers have, and their interaction with him, they have no reason to recommend him. And yes, I've tried his Dragon and Tiger qigong and was not impressed. 

Would you be willing to say who you would recommend instead? 

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, markern said:

Would you be willing to say who you would recommend instead? 

 

For healing or for martial purposes? It all depends on your goal too, and your location or if you don't mind learning online for the short term, but will still need to eventually learn in person for advanced techniques. 

[markern]

Healing first and awakening second. Martial arts skills are a nice bonus but not something I am looking for in the way many here seem to be looking for the most powerful IMA for fighting. I like tai chi and want to have it as a regular part of my practice but its more important to me that I like the way the form looks and how it feels to move in it and the way the teacher moves than that it cultivates the most internal power for push hands etc. So for example I really like the way the teacher Hai Yang moves in his Chen tai chi on youtube but find the Wu style forms of Frantzis totally unappealing and would prioritize learning from someone like Hai Yang rather than Bruce even if Bruce had much more internal power and could teach that better than Yang. I am more of dancers in my desire for Tai Chi than a martial artist though I do practice Muay Thai and hope to have Tai Chi help my fighting skills there. 

I prioritize healing first because I have some serious traumas to work through and my physical health has taken a toll from years of burnout coupled with unhealthy living. I also have had some very serious grounding issues which have gotten a lot better but I still need a lot of grounding. After that is in order I care about awakening. Very fire based systems are probably not a good place for me to start. 

I live in Norway and there aren't many teachers around but I am willing to travel and learn online. 

Its important to me that its possible to get certified to teach after some time and that I won't have to spend many, many years until I am maybe allowed to do so. 
 

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, markern said:

Healing first and awakening second. Martial arts skills are a nice bonus but not something I am looking for in the way many here seem to be looking for the most powerful IMA for fighting. I like tai chi and want to have it as a regular part of my practice but its more important to me that I like the way the form looks and how it feels to move in it and the way the teacher moves than that it cultivates the most internal power for push hands etc. So for example I really like the way the teacher Hai Yang moves in his Chen tai chi on youtube but find the Wu style forms of Frantzis totally unappealing and would prioritize learning from someone like Hai Yang rather than Bruce even if Bruce had much more internal power and could teach that better than Yang. I am more of dancers in my desire for Tai Chi than a martial artist though I do practice Muay Thai and hope to have Tai Chi help my fighting skills there. 

I prioritize healing first because I have some serious traumas to work through and my physical health has taken a toll from years of burnout coupled with unhealthy living. I also have had some very serious grounding issues which have gotten a lot better but I still need a lot of grounding. After that is in order I care about awakening. Very fire based systems are probably not a good place for me to start. 

I live in Norway and there aren't many teachers around but I am willing to travel and learn online. 

Its important to me that its possible to get certified to teach after some time and that I won't have to spend many, many years until I am maybe allowed to do so. 
 

 

Okay, let's talk via PM so that we don't distract from the thread. 

[markern]

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Okay, let's talk via PM so that we don't distract from the thread. 

Excellent!

[Gerard]

On 29/09/2019 at 9:14 PM, Integrated said:

1. He represents for me yet another perspective on Taoism.

 

2. Somehow that is not so, which suggests that the matter is slightly more complex.

 

1. Like anything else in life.

 

How many paths lead to the top of a mountain?

 

A: As many as you like.

 

2. Evolution. Some are more evolved than others, the latter causing most of the 'trouble.'

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Gerard

[Gerard]

On 29/09/2019 at 11:50 PM, markern said:

I prioritize healing first because I have some serious traumas to work through and my physical health has taken a toll from years of burnout coupled with unhealthy living. I also have had some very serious grounding issues which have gotten a lot better but I still need a lot of grounding. After that is in order I care about awakening. Very fire based systems are probably not a good place for me to start. 

I live in Norway and there aren't many teachers around but I am willing to travel and learn online. 

Its important to me that its possible to get certified to teach after some time and that I won't have to spend many, many years until I am maybe allowed to do so. 
 

 

 

For deep, deep grounding and Ba Gua that will take your 'life' to a totally different level:

 

He Jinghan

Taipei-Taiwan

 

He has a YT channel with plenty of free material. 

 

Certified to teach?

 

Learn Ba Gua deep and you won't care for any of that,..let alone fighting and/or  looking like a pretty phoenix.

 

Good luck in your journey...of this was meant to be for you in this lifetime.

[Walker]

On 2019/9/26 at 4:14 AM, Gerard said:

So what was the point of your last post? 

 

Uhhhhhhh, really?

 

Here:

 

Point: The following is extremely hypocritical:

 

First:

 

1. When a woman comes and kindly shares a book she just wrote for free, you jump on her to man-splain how all religion is wrong and how books are a "a human mechanism to enhance the ego." This is extremely rude because:

A. You are accusing her of having simply done something to "enhance her ego."

B. You did not even read any of her book before of before lecturing at her, so you have no fucking idea what her ideas actually are. 

 

Then:

 

2. In this thread, the same Gerard who needed to shut down Shanmugam because she wrote a book about religions, is now going on about how baguazhang is "a kind of religion" (your words) and "the sum of all reigions" (your words). Yet in her thread you criticized her book (did I mention that you didn't read it?) and religion in general when you prognosticated for us: 

A. "No god"

B. "No religion"

C. [Religion only works to] "divide (as mentioned above) amd argue with others; eg. my religion is better than yours.

 

Hmm, makes no sense, Gerard. Especially since your religion (baguazhang) is evidently the best ever. Sigh.

 

Are you in the process of founding the all-new Church of Baguazhang? From what I can tell so far, these are the rules:

• Gerard is a priest in this religion, he has walked in lots of circles and his eighth eye opened (or was it the 64th eye?), so now he knows whether or not there is a god and he knows the contents of all books
• BKF is the pope of the Church of Baguazhang. Gerard has never met Him, but He is really great and we should respect him blindly otherwise we are not "worthy"
• We should read the writings of the Great BKF, but we should not read any other books, because books are bad and reading is counterproductive, unless you are reading BKF books
• It is also okay to read online internet posties by Gerard
• But don't read anything else
• Idle hands do the Devil's work, so if you find yourself with free time, it is best to go to your local Asian supermarket and ask if they will let you practice your "two in the pink one in the stink" with the tofu. While you're there, you can also try and pick up girls, who will surely be impressed by your bagua disco moves and tofu-pleasuring skills. If you manage to get to 3,000 sexual partners, then you become immortal and ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[forestofclarity]

If anyone is interested, I did end up taking the course at the center. I'm still taking courses there about 6-7 months later. Bruce will start teaching next week, so I cannot speak about classes with him personally. But the classes with his instructors have been exactly what I was looking for. The instructors and long-term students are all fairly nice and down to earth which can be unusual in my experience. 

 

The teachings have been pretty open. Unlike other classes I have taken, they explain fairly well what you are supposed to be doing. In fact, the teachers will go out of their way to demonstrate exactly how the body should move. The mechanics of Tao Chi are starting to make sense to me physically, including the phrase "each part is connected to every other part." Dragon-Tiger did not strike me as a great set of exercises initially, but over time I have found that it generates a lot of qi sensation, calms the mind, and promotes energy. I can also clearly see how 99% of Western tai chi and qigong is just arm waving.  

 

The emphasis appears to be on meditation and healing rather than martial ability. It sounds like this is based on a conscious choice on Bruce's part. This may be a turn off for many, but not for me. I have been in two fights in my entire life, both as a teenager. I have gotten more pain and bruising from full-contact sparring than any actual in life violence. However, mental distraction and physical age-based deterioration are always ongoing problems, so this seems suited for those. 

 

This is probably the first time I have been to such a class where everything was explained in a way that is easy to understand, and the arts still strike me as having unknown depths yet to be uncovered. It also reminds me of how much I miss the the organic, fluid, relaxing, intuitive "feel" of Chinese based arts/philosophy/Ch'an. I will say I am genuinely surprised at how positive the experience has been, especially in relation to how turned off I was by his general website/advertising. 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

The local center is going to start broadcasting classes online if people are interested. 

 

https://www.energyarts.com/tao-space#unique-features

 

For the record, I am not on board with an entirely online program. 

 

 

[Gerard]

On 02/03/2020 at 5:02 AM, forestofemptiness said:

The emphasis appears to be on meditation and healing rather than martial ability. It sounds like this is based on a conscious choice on Bruce's part. This may be a turn off for many...but not for me

 

 

 

Good to read you found a method that resonates with you. 
 

Deep methods focus on healing and opening. Martial methods focus on fighting/self-defence. Each to their own.

 

With Ba Gua you can do both so it's a matter of personal preference a d the teacher's main goal anyway. 
 

Good luck

[Samoobramba]

BKF is very good and I also recommend his videos.