Continuation

[MegaMind]

Continuation of "And that's why I shun "new and improved interpretations" and "combining practices" and "a creative approach" to any original sources", hopefully to minimize further derailment.

 

I thought it best to reply here, rather than continue to derail the other thread.

 

As to misinformation, we do our best to source our information only from the "horses mouth".

 

You see my perspective as smug. 

 

A lot of times people convince themselves things are a certain way, and then rationalize all kinds of excuses to support that view.

 

From my perspective you are critical of the fact that it is possible to make fire using only sticks, tinder, and elbow grease using only video to provide the correct instruction.

 

People have done this.

 

When I sound smug its only because I am stating a fact that I know to be true first hand.

It is real, and anyone who is willing to get serious, follow instruction, and actually do it can and will see for themselves.

 

If we could only force people to sit down, shut up and follow instruction long enough to see for themselves this really truly would change the world.

 

I don't really know what more I can tell you.

Edited September 10, 2019 by MildMouse23

[Earl Grey]

Hi MildMouse23,

 

Thanks for moving the conversation here so that you don't derail the thread. 

 

I'll respond to your points and also let you know that I'm not hostile (nor are the other members) and do appreciate your presence here. 

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

As to misinformation, we do our best to source our information only from the "horses mouth".

 

 

Yes, at least you have it from the horse's mouth, and unfortunately, as I've been told, you have far more weirdoes to deal with looking for that and more who have the leaked instructions and then some nonsense added to it. So I can appreciate your work with what you do have that is correct. 

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

You see my perspective as smug. 

 

 

What I see are some of the reasoning you make is smug, and it parallels some of the DIY culture prominent in Silicon Valley. There's a great book called The Shallows which talks about how the current iteration of the Internet is promoting this cult of the amateur, with so many ways to have professional skills like marketing for social media, YouTube videos, and self-publishing. As it is the Wild West still with regulation still to come as governments are calling for more overseeing and regulation, for the moment, we have a lot of people who become self-taught experts. Although we have mail order correspondence courses like the GED program for prisoners in the United States for example, the difference is a lot of people are passing themselves off as experts now due to the smugness of how Internet culture has inspired many societies to encourage people to be loud, radical, and insane while screaming to be relevant. 

 

I am speaking of the tone and absolute certainty, but I am not disregarding your opinion. 

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

A lot of times people convince themselves things are a certain way, and then rationalize all kinds of excuses to support that view.

 

One word: cults. Two words: Flat Earthers. We can agree there.

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

From my perspective you are critical of the fact that it is possible to make fire using only sticks, tinder, and elbow grease using only video to provide the correct instruction.

 

People have done this.

 

I am not criticizing the fact that it is possible to make fire following a video. Those instructions are simple to follow.

 

What I did challenge you with though were 1) learning disabilities, which people have that makes learning from a video difficult, 2) the limitations of learning complex things from a video--as you said, you yourself were able to learn to fix your washing machine and get certifications (congratulations, this is quite a feat and I praise your initiative), but for complex subjects, at best it is not that easy, at worst, it is not a good medium to transmit information, 3) mixed results even within a niche and with hands-on instruction, such as people in medical school or law school all having differing levels of understanding even if the study the same material. 

 

I think it is more a testament to your own level of intelligence and discipline to be able to learn on your own, which is impressive and praiseworthy. What I'm speaking of are the people who have those limitations you don't apparently exhibit. 

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

When I sound smug its only because I am stating a fact that I know to be true first hand.

It is real, and anyone who is willing to get serious, follow instruction, and actually do it can and will see for themselves.

 

If we could only force people to sit down, shut up and follow instruction long enough to see for themselves this really truly would change the world.

 

I don't really know what more I can tell you.

 

When you refer to "it" here are you referring to your system? There's no argument that your system yields results as it has already been proven many times, so this is not what I'm speaking of when addressing your reasoning.  So let's not get into assuming that I'm attacking your system without mentioning it if it seems like I am alluding to it, which I am not, just so we are clear. 

 

The argument that I am making of is the general perspective of DIY culture and people's learning curve or specialized knowledge. It is a discussion I often have whenever I am visiting friends in Silicon Valley, particularly when techies like to insist that nobody should be poor, everyone should be educated and rich because of the gig economy allowing everyone to earn enough and not be poor, and everyone can learn from videos online. Besides the above reasoning I have made already, let me also mention language barriers, Internet access from restrictions to disinformation and misinformation, and even no access to that information gets in the way of people being able to learn.

 

What we are talking about here though does posit some assumptions that someone can learn from a video, assuming they do have correct information and instructions are clear. What I posited in response was the learning disabilities, learning styles, limitations of learning complex subjects from a video, and mixed results, which if you have anything to say in response to these things, your comments are appreciated. 

 

EDIT: if you'd like, we can move this to my PPJ so that I have more control over the conversation we have if it does continue longer, given that Sean is a one-man army at the moment moderating, in case derailment may occur and we can maintain civil conversation. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Earl Grey

[MegaMind]

"the difference is a lot of people are passing themselves off as experts "

 

Our role is merely to provide information from actual experts, and let others follow that instruction and see for themselves.

 

"What I see are some of the reasoning you make is smug, and it parallels some of the DIY culture prominent in Silicon Valley."

 

People can and do get masters degrees and PhD.s in advanced mathematics and physics just by watching videos aka prerecorded lectures.

 

This works in practice, not in theory.

 

The information is the same as sitting in on a lecture, though I will grant you being there in person is a more immersive experience.

 

"learning disabilities, which people have that makes learning from a video difficult"

 

Indeed people with ADHD and other learning disabilities need not apply.  

 

It's not that we don't want to help, but rather we aren't equipped for it.

 

"complex subjects"

 

No, even for complex subjects video works just fine, the information is the same as sitting in on a lecture.

 

People learn advanced mathematics and physics this way, and those are some of our most challenging subjects.

 

However what we study is not complex or difficult for most with a 100 IQ (or higher) to grasp.

 

"people in medical school or law school all having differing levels of understanding even if the study the same material."

 

Going to college helps you be less ignorant, but does not increase your intelligence.

 

You can be an idiot still earn your bachelors degree if you try hard enough.

 

"I think it is more a testament to your own level of intelligence and discipline to be able to learn on your own"

 

In regards to our art, many of us were students of the top western student, however the information passed along is the same as it always was we haven't altered or changed it in any way.

 

In reality it just isn't that complicated, if you can microwave a hot pocket you can do this.

 

The hard part is finding people who will actually listen and then actually do it.

 

Most people gargle, take bits and pieces, blend it together with other systems and then proclaim themselves son goku all without ever having meditated more than 5 minutes.

 

[Earl Grey]

Before I reply I would like to ask why you’re alluding to your art rather than the general point I’m making about education and learning. If that is not what you’re interested in addressing then you are aiming for a different conversation as I am not talking about your system of practice—was that not already clearly stated in my post?

[MegaMind]

Maybe these edits will help better:

 

"What I see are some of the reasoning you make is smug, and it parallels some of the DIY culture prominent in Silicon Valley."

 

People can and do get masters degrees and PhD.s in advanced mathematics and physics just by watching videos aka prerecorded lectures.

 

This works in practice, not in theory.

 

The information is the same as sitting in on a lecture, though I will grant you being there in person is a more immersive experience.

 

"learning disabilities, which people have that makes learning from a video difficult"

 

Those people may need special help, but for a lot of people video will work just fine.

 

"complex subjects"

 

No, even for complex subjects video works just fine (for most people), the information is the same as sitting in on a lecture.

 

People learn advanced mathematics and physics this way, and those are some of our most challenging subjects.

 

"people in medical school or law school all having differing levels of understanding even if the study the same material."

 

Going to college helps you be less ignorant, but does not increase your intelligence.

 

You can earn your bachelors degree if you try hard enough, and be still be an idiot.

 

"I think it is more a testament to your own level of intelligence and discipline to be able to learn on your own"

 

I disagree, there is nothing special about it. 

 

Being able to learn from video is something almost all humans have the ability to do. 

 

What most people lack is the desire to follow through with it. 

 

We are distracted by TV shows, video games, Facebook, and other social media to the point we have the attention spans of goldfish.

Edited September 8, 2019 by MildMouse23

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

People can and do get masters degrees and PhD.s in advanced mathematics and physics just by watching videos aka prerecorded lectures.

 

This works in practice, not in theory.

 

The information is the same as sitting in on a lecture, though I will grant you being there in person is a more immersive experience.

 

Yes, I don't disagree it's possible, but there are some niche subjects where it won't work as well as you are arguing that it will, such as what I mentioned: law and medicine, which you didn't address.

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

Those people may need special help, but for a lot of people video will work just fine.

 

 

Yes, a lot of people, but my concern are the minority because I work with people who have educational needs, such as abuse victims, refugees, and those from different educational systems like people from the rural countryside in Tanzania or East Timor.

 

I would actually argue that there are more people who need additional help than those who are just fine with videos, but I speak from the context of living in the Third World more than living in North America, as I go back to North America every other year and plenty of people where I am do not learn easily from videos for varying reasons.

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

No, even for complex subjects video works just fine (for most people), the information is the same as sitting in on a lecture.

 

 

At least you're saying it's not everyone, but again, I see it as some people rather than most, and this is even in Yonsei University in Korea where they're trying to do more education through podcasting and video lectures. Cambridge and Stanford also have open university classes I believe and they are good supplemental resources, but an entirely different experience and the absorption of information is different because of the quality from immersion, which you agree with here:

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

The information is the same as sitting in on a lecture, though I will grant you being there in person is a more immersive experience.

 

Immersion is actually quite important, especially when learning languages, as language isn't just memorizing words, but understanding context. You're not learning just how to replace words in English for Bahasa Indonesia or Tetum for example, but how people's idioms and language shape the world and their worldview. 

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

Going to college helps you be less ignorant, but does not increase your intelligence.

 

You can be an idiot still earn your bachelors degree if you try hard enough.

 

Going to have to agree with you there as I went to UCLA and UCSD for my BA and MA, and wondered how the hell some idiots were accepted into those schools.

 

Education is a totally different thing now than it was in the early to mid-twentieth century, and the rise of victimhood culture for safe spaces and all has actually been shown in lots of research that dialogue and engagement suffers from professors fearful of losing their position because someone didn't like what they said. 

 

In a situation like this, I would have to say it makes me want to stay home and learn by videos rather than be around a lot of insufferable hypersensitive children who point fingers but can't handle when someone points fingers back at them.

 

However, again, I was referring to specialized education like medicine. My cousin is a trauma surgeon and right now he has a bunch of Millennial and Edger interns who not only are being experimented on to learn from video lectures, they also are using apps to assist their work, but the quality of work has suffered significantly in trying to "modernize" with technology, by letting the machines think for them. But I digress, as this is now jumping to something further ahead of what we're talking about, which is video learning.

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

I disagree, there is nothing special about it. 

 

Being able to learn from video is something almost all humans have the ability to do. 

 

What most people lack is the desire to follow through with it. 

 

We are distracted by TV shows, video games, Facebook, and other social media to the point we have the attention spans of goldfish.

 

Take the praise, will you? LOL. Unfortunately, we have a world where less people are self-motivated and determined to learn and want things handed to them. Ironically, there are more resources, such as those videos, and more resources that connect them to people like me and my peers who are out to help them learn when they have difficulty, such as Project SHINE in California that helps elderly applicants for their naturalization education and tests. 

 

I give you credit again for acknowledging it's not everyone, but a good number of people who can learn from video. 

 

The desire to follow through alone is not the issue, as I said. It is the learning disabilities, the learning styles, the content itself.

 

I have people who want to learn but they need more resources to help and without them, they struggle or they just don't get it as easily as you would think from just a video. 

 

Distractions do make it worse, but even without the distractions, those factors are not going to go away, and as long as you're able to acknowledge them, then that is all right, but what I was raising my eyebrows about earlier was that you appeared to not be acknowledging those factors or those people. The verdict is still out though if you are sensitive towards those people though. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Earl Grey

[liminal_luke]

I agree that math can be learned from a video, given that someone has the motivation and a mind predisposed to understand mathetmatical concepts.  Math is complex but it´s also logical.  If you can follow the logic, you get it.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, there´s tai chi.  Many students come to believe that tai chi can´t be learned period -- not from a video, not from a class.  There´s a gazillion subtlties that can´t possibly come across through Youtube no matter how skilled the videographer.  I remember my teacher making minute adjustments in the angle of my wrist or fingers and, as if by magic, the chi would start to flow.  How did he do that?  I still haven´t the foggiest.  Of course thirty seconds later my position would of drifted ever so slightly and the energy would fade.  I couldn´t put myself back into the right position even though I´d been there just a bit ago.  The precision required can only be learned proprioceptively, by getting your body to do it right and feeling what that´s like.  It´s more than just a visual thing.

 

Tai chi is an extreme case but there are other skills that require similar in-person instruction: brain surgery, contemporary dance, football.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Earl Grey]

8 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Tai chi is an extreme case but there are other skills that require similar in-person instruction: brain surgery, contemporary dance, football.

 

Singing, too, if we recall many of the applicants and contestants for American Idol. 

 

 

[Zork]

28 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

I agree that math can be learned from a video, given that someone has the motivation and a mind predisposed to understand mathetmatical concepts.  Math is complex but it´s also logical.  If you can follow the logic, you get it.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, there´s tai chi.  Many students come to believe that tai chi can´t be learned period -- not from a video, not from a class.  There´s a gazillion subtlties that can´t possibly come across through Youtube no matter how skilled the videographer.  I remember my teacher making minute adjustments in the angle of my wrist or fingers and, as if by magic, the chi would start to flow.  How did he do that?  I still haven´t the foggiest.  Of course thirty seconds later my position would of drifted ever so slightly and the energy would fade.  I couldn´t put myself back into the right position even though I´d been there just a bit ago.  The precision required can only be learned proprioceptively, by getting your body to do it right and feeling what that´s like.  It´s more than just a visual thing.

 

Tai chi is an extreme case but there are other skills that require similar in-person instruction: brain surgery, contemporary dance, football.

 

 

Exactly. That is what we are all trying to convey to mildmouse and he isn't getting it. Instructions by themselves don't mean anything without a teacher to interpret them.

Same goes for recipes of michelen star restaurants. One could possibly find the recipe but one would need years just to come 90% close to the original if starting from scratch and with no guidance.

It is like basketball or football. Given the same instructions on how to shoot the ball, results of students vary and each one requires a different handling from the coach.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Zork

[Earl Grey]

22 minutes ago, Zork said:

Exactly. That is what we are all trying to convey to mildmouse and he isn't getting it. Instructions by themselves don't mean anything without a teacher to interpret them.

Same goes for recipes of michelen star restaurants. One could possibly find the recipe but one would need years just to come 90% close to the original if starting from scratch and with no guidance.

It is like basketball or football. Given the same instructions on how to shoot the ball, results of students vary and each one requires a different handling from the coach.

 

What is more puzzling is how he has posted a lot of good references about Leftist perspectives before, but here he has an attitude that seems to disregard a lot of complexities of people, especially the disabled, the unprivileged, and those who simply are not visual learner types, or non-native speakers and non-tech savvy cultures.

 

Try showing a video trying to teach English to refugees in Australia arriving by boat and see how far that gets them versus actual instructors, and I don't mean college graduates trying to make an easy buck, but dedicated professionals who have nuanced understanding of learning styles, psychological profiles of refugees, and situational mastery, plus the extensive material and immersion. 

 

For both, you will have varying results, but it has nothing to do with people being unmotivated or distracted. 

[Earl Grey]

28 minutes ago, Zork said:

Exactly. That is what we are all trying to convey to mildmouse and he isn't getting it. Instructions by themselves don't mean anything without a teacher to interpret them.

Same goes for recipes of michelen star restaurants. One could possibly find the recipe but one would need years just to come 90% close to the original if starting from scratch and with no guidance.

It is like basketball or football. Given the same instructions on how to shoot the ball, results of students vary and each one requires a different handling from the coach.

 

https://www.wired.com/story/you-can-learn-everything-online-except-for-the-things-you-cant/

 

Even better.

[MegaMind]

On 9/8/2019 at 10:05 AM, liminal_luke said:

I agree that math can be learned from a video, given that someone has the motivation and a mind predisposed to understand mathetmatical concepts.  Math is complex but it´s also logical.  If you can follow the logic, you get it.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, there´s tai chi.  Many students come to believe that tai chi can´t be learned period -- not from a video, not from a class.  There´s a gazillion subtlties that can´t possibly come across through Youtube no matter how skilled the videographer.  I remember my teacher making minute adjustments in the angle of my wrist or fingers and, as if by magic, the chi would start to flow.  How did he do that?  I still haven´t the foggiest.  Of course thirty seconds later my position would of drifted ever so slightly and the energy would fade.  I couldn´t put myself back into the right position even though I´d been there just a bit ago.  The precision required can only be learned proprioceptively, by getting your body to do it right and feeling what that´s like.  It´s more than just a visual thing.

 

Tai chi is an extreme case but there are other skills that require similar in-person instruction: brain surgery, contemporary dance, football.

 

 

 

Hi Luke,

 

Math, physics, chemistry, computer programming, you name it you can learn it by watching video lectures.

 

Real arts like the one I study can also be learned this way. 

 

The teachings are the same now as they were then.

 

It isn't nearly as complicated as you make it out to be.

Edited September 10, 2019 by MildMouse23

[MegaMind]

On 9/8/2019 at 10:31 AM, Zork said:

Exactly. That is what we are all trying to convey to mildmouse and he isn't getting it. Instructions by themselves don't mean anything without a teacher to interpret them.

Same goes for recipes of michelen star restaurants. One could possibly find the recipe but one would need years just to come 90% close to the original if starting from scratch and with no guidance.

It is like basketball or football. Given the same instructions on how to shoot the ball, results of students vary and each one requires a different handling from the coach.

 

Hi Zork,

 

Many of our group were students to the top western student of the art I study.

 

This ultimately is how things are transmitted, from teacher to student.

 

His teachings haven't changed they are still the same.

 

None of it is complicated or hard to understand.

Edited September 10, 2019 by MildMouse23

[MegaMind]

6 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

What is more puzzling is how he has posted a lot of good references about Leftist perspectives before, but here he has an attitude that seems to disregard a lot of complexities of people, especially the disabled, the unprivileged, and those who simply are not visual learner types, or non-native speakers and non-tech savvy cultures.

 

Try showing a video trying to teach English to refugees in Australia arriving by boat and see how far that gets them versus actual instructors, and I don't mean college graduates trying to make an easy buck, but dedicated professionals who have nuanced understanding of learning styles, psychological profiles of refugees, and situational mastery, plus the extensive material and immersion. 

 

For both, you will have varying results, but it has nothing to do with people being unmotivated or distracted. 

 

 

Earl, the Pimsleur approach to learning language works amazingly well. 

 

Diplomats use it, and people in college achieve better results with it than with teachers.

[liminal_luke]

5 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

Hi Luke,

 

Unfortunately I don't have a PPD but this was meant as a discussion between Earl and I.

 

If you would not mind, would you please create a new topic if you feel the need to reply.

 

 

That´s fine, MildMouse.  I won´t debate the issue further.  If what you really want is a private discussion with Earl Grey though, may I suggest the private messenger?  Or even regular email, Skype?  

[MegaMind]

6 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

https://www.wired.com/story/you-can-learn-everything-online-except-for-the-things-you-cant/

 

Even better.

 

The article you linked to isn't saying you can't learn things online, it is saying the college experience has more to it than just learning.

 

 

"College is more than a collection of classes. It's the experience of living away from home."

 

...

 

"relationships with other humans and even faculty. College can be about clubs and other student groups. It's about studying with your peers."

 

...

 

"It's about exploring who you are and learning things that might not directly relate to a particular field. College is about taking classes that might not have anything to do with work. Art history is a great class—even if you aren't going to work in a museum. Algebra should be taken by all students—even though you probably won't need it (most humans get by just fine without a solid math background)."

 

...

 

"about becoming more mature as a human. It's about leveling up in the human race—and that is something that is difficult to do online (but surely not impossible)."

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

Earl, the Pimsleur approach to learning language works amazingly well

 

That’s the Pimsleur approach. One way of learning versus just dumping a video to a group of refugees as I said. If we’re talking about videos in general, then this is an example of how just video alone doesn’t work but the Pimsleur approach is a totally different kind of learning. 

 

I think I’ve already said you can learn from a video but the point I speak of here is that in different contexts it changes the ability to learn as well as the individual and their background. A diplomat and the Pimsleur method is a false comparisons to dumping a TV to a group of refugees in a room.

 

As someone who also worked in the US government before in East Africa, by the way, we didn’t use that Pimsleur method to learn Kiswahili. What languages do you speak besides English and how have you learned them?

 

Ever tried Rosetta Stone Duolingo, Memrise, or FluentU? They’re all okay, but for the languages I learned, they are better as supplements rather than primary learning. Nothing beats immersion.

 

Also the above article was for Zork to see. Yes it was saying you can learn some things online but its main point is there are a myriad of other things from experience and college is just a microcosm for that besides saying the courses online are only part of it.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Nungali]

Its not fair !  I get the distinct feeling I missed out on some dessert  everyone else had .

 

Did I miss some pie somewhere ?   Its reading like it .

 

 

I should stick to tofu , no pie for me   

 

Yes, tofu !    I used to make tofu .... damn good tofu too  (not just my opinion, I had  tourists  from Japan  tell me so .   And it wasn't just politeness      , they explained why it was good and they kept coming back for more )

 

Moi Tofu . 

 

Great job too .... reverse Christian work ethic ... I would do it on Sundays, work one day a week and have the other 6 off and got by nicely on that.

 

The guy that was making it before me taught me about it , he said he couldnt really teach me , you had to 'be in the zone'. He did teach me a lot ( mind you this is in person, personal instruction , over months , I started as his assistant).  he taught me certain basic principles . Others that  tried ,  where taught , knew and applied those principles made shit tofu .

 

In making it a traditional way there are all these factors that change, and when one changes, you have to make adjustments with the other factors . Some factors are ; the quality and content of the soy beans , that can go on look, touch, smell feel , the air temperature and how rapidly or not it is rising or falling and moisture level , the water temperature , the quality of the water ( being river water it constantly changed ) , the type of nigari ( curdling agent ) you are using, and its daily quality ( has it absorbed moisture since last week, how does it fee and look ) l .    I could go on ...

 

The point is, it is impossible to consciously take all this in and   work it out . It takes 'intuition'  ; " Hmmmm, I might add a pinch more Nigari to that . or, I might cut the curd 5 mins earlier  or ...... "

 

Intuition is best found after long experience in a field with the embedded information worked into the unconscious and everything worked out in the unconscious  ( which is like a planetary computer compared to our normal consciousness ) and then the results are delivered  (if you ;'n the zone')  as a hunch or inspiration into consciousness  and action.

 

You not in the zone and  it turns out like bland scrambled egg vomit .

 

(and I am not talking about making one block of it in your kitchen, I am talking about supplying all the health food shops  up and down the coast and some local people who been eating it for years and very fussy and critical, large amounts in a commercial enterprise where high quality consistency is important . )

 

So, if an art  like that even be taught 'in person' ..... well . 
 

We had a Japanese man and women visit, they where great ( and liked my Tofu) they taught us how to make those pounded rice cakes , delicious !   dry them out, slice and fry them with a sprinkle of seaweed and mild  soy sauce .... YUM !

 

he did a make your own miso workshop. well I was certainly going to go to that .  Cool . I did everything he showed me. Put it in the best place I could  and waited and waited .... the date  finally arrived and I eagerly opened it .

 

My God what a horror !  I threw it out into the  forest . A week later it was still rotting there , not even the scrub turkeys ate it !

 

          and     

[MegaMind]

13 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

That’s the Pimsleur approach. One way of learning versus just dumping a video to a group of refugees as I said. If we’re talking about videos in general, then this is an example of how just video alone doesn’t work but the Pimsleur approach is a totally different kind of learning. 

 

I think I’ve already said you can learn from a video but the point I speak of here is that in different contexts it changes the ability to learn as well as the individual and their background. A diplomat and the Pimsleur method is a false comparisons to dumping a TV to a group of refugees in a room.

 

As someone who also worked in the US government before in East Africa, by the way, we didn’t use that Pimsleur method to learn Kiswahili. What languages do you speak besides English and how have you learned them?

 

Ever tried Rosetta Stone Duolingo, Memrise, or FluentU? They’re all okay, but for the languages I learned, they are better as supplements rather than primary learning. Nothing beats immersion.

 

Also the above article was for Zork to see. Yes it was saying you can learn some things online but its main point is there are a myriad of other things from experience and college is just a microcosm for that besides saying the courses online are only part of it.

 

It's an audio based approach to learning language, and it works well.

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

That´s fine, MildMouse.  I won´t debate the issue further.  If what you really want is a private discussion with Earl Grey though, may I suggest the private messenger?  Or even regular email, Skype?  

 

This isn’t a private conversation at the moment so chime in all you want. I offered in the first post to have this in my own PPD but that point was ignored. Even still I love having your perspective and others since it’s a topic for engagement and learning.

 

As for Skype or e-mail, both are an option as well and is how I actually came to respect and get along with ilovecoffee as an exchange in his archived ppd shows since there were no misunderstandings once we got on a call. I have had a lot of Skype calls with members here and it totally makes a difference with understanding than just text on screen and met members in person offline as well making things even better too.

 

Next year I plan on offering to meet others when I travel more so they can see the fruits of my own IMA in person and exchange skills. I was jokingly going to call the announcement “Earl Grey Rampage: World Tour”.

[Nungali]

16 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

...?

 

Ever tried Rosetta Stone Duolingo, Memrise, or FluentU? They’re all okay, but for the languages I learned, they are better as supplements rather than primary learning. Nothing beats immersion.

 

.....

 

[MegaMind]

Just now, Nungali said:

Its not fair !  I get the distinct feeling I missed out on some dessert  everyone else had .

 

Did I miss some pie somewhere ?   Its reading like it .

 

 

I should stick to tofu , no pie for me   

 

Yes, tofu !    I used to make tofu .... damn good tofu too  (not just my opinion, I had  tourists  from Japan  tell me so .   And it wasn't just politeness      , they explained why it was good and they kept coming back for more )

 

Moi Tofu . 

 

Great job too .... reverse Christian work ethic ... I would do it on Sundays, work one day a week and have the other 6 off and got by nicely on that.

 

The guy that was making it before me taught me about it , he said he couldnt really teach me , you had to 'be in the zone'. He did teach me a lot ( mind you this is in person, personal instruction , over months , I started as his assistant).  he taught me certain basic principles . Others that  tried ,  where taught , knew and applied those principles made shit tofu .

 

In making it a traditional way there are all these factors that change, and when one changes, you have to make adjustments with the other factors . Some factors are ; the quality and content of the soy beans , that can go on look, touch, smell feel , the air temperature and how rapidly or not it is rising or falling and moisture level , the water temperature , the quality of the water ( being river water it constantly changed ) , the type of nigari ( curdling agent ) you are using, and its daily quality ( has it absorbed moisture since last week, how does it fee and look ) l .    I could go on ...

 

The point is, it is impossible to consciously take all this in and   work it out . It takes 'intuition'  ; " Hmmmm, I might add a pinch more Nigari to that . or, I might cut the curd 5 mins earlier  or ...... "

 

Intuition is best found after long experience in a field with the embedded information worked into the unconscious and everything worked out in the unconscious  ( which is like a planetary computer compared to our normal consciousness ) and then the results are delivered  (if you ;'n the zone')  as a hunch or inspiration into consciousness  and action.

 

You not in the zone and  it turns out like bland scrambled egg vomit .

 

(and I am not talking about making one block of it in your kitchen, I am talking about supplying all the health food shops  up and down the coast and some local people who been eating it for years and very fussy and critical, large amounts in a commercial enterprise where high quality consistency is important . )

 

So, if an art  like that even be taught 'in person' ..... well . 
 

We had a Japanese man and women visit, they where great ( and liked my Tofu) they taught us how to make those pounded rice cakes , delicious !   dry them out, slice and fry them with a sprinkle of seaweed and mild  soy sauce .... YUM !

 

he did a make your own miso workshop. well I was certainly going to go to that .  Cool . I did everything he showed me. Put it in the best place I could  and waited and waited .... the date  finally arrived and I eagerly opened it .

 

My God what a horror !  I threw it out into the  forest . A week later it was still rotting there , not even the scrub turkeys ate it !

 

          and     

 

If you feed your tofu to the turkeys would you call them tofurkys?
 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

It's an audio based approach to learning language, and it works well.

 

Yes I have seen it. 

 

I am not saying that video or audio tools to learn don’t work, I’m saying they work better as supplements rather than primary ways to learn and context is different.

[MegaMind]

12 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Yes I have seen it. 

 

I am not saying that video or audio tools to learn don’t work, I’m saying they work better as supplements rather than primary ways to learn and context is different.

 

My experience has been just the opposite. 

 

Most teachers I've had don't care about the subject they teach, it's just a paycheck to them.

 

Read this chapter, test will be over this material, lets talk about my dog for the next 15 minutes.. etc.

 

I have learned far more listening to video and audio from people who do actually care about what they are teaching.

 

To me I would rather learn this way if given the option it works well for me, and for a lot of other people as well.

Edited September 8, 2019 by MildMouse23

[Nungali]

4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

This isn’t a private conversation at the moment so chime in all you want. I offered in the first post to have this in my own PPD but that point was ignored. Even still I love having your perspective and others since it’s a topic for engagement and learning.

 

As for Skype or e-mail, both are an option as well and is how I actually came to respect and get along with ilovecoffee as an exchange in his archived ppd shows since there were no misunderstandings once we got on a call. I have had a lot of Skype calls with members here and it totally makes a difference with understanding than just text on screen and met members in person offline as well making things even better too.

 

Next year I plan on offering to meet others when I travel more so they can see the fruits of my own IMA in person and exchange skills. I was jokingly going to call the announcement “Earl Grey Rampage: World Tour”.

 

Come on 'down'  ! I take you to Gondwanaland world heritage area , just up the road from my place

 

https://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/places/world/gondwana