Thoughts on Magick

[Mskied]

Ive spent my life trying to put the metaphysical Sea in a cup.  It was especially the task at hand over the past four years.  Ive come up with some great observations and plotted out how I will control the World many times, each time broadening my scope to include more and more people under my umbrella of Wisdom.  I feel that Ive done an adequate job, but one thing remains: Free Will, lack of resources, environmental challenges- there is no way to control reality, unfortunately, though many prophets and teachers and parents and governors try.  I concluded awhile back that there is some kind of cosmic force that prevents us from a static condition, that even if we were able to come together and manage this, that with each new life comes a new flame of challenges that will disrupt what we hold True.  I call this force God, or the Will of God- some have named it Chaos, or Lucifer, or Satan.  Ive concluded that fire and mass are the keystones of existence, and that as the fire cools, the matter becomes something else and takes on its own course of motion- that is what we fundamentally are, though of course, we are so much more- for in our becoming, we take on the roles of our position and emotional reactions to what is happening.  

 

I feel like the occult world is a mess.  Too many systems with their own interpretations and none of them pointing out the fundamental nature of Nature.  Magick is not a religion- it is the Truth about freedom to act, and it holds all the fundamental elements loosely tied together by language and culture.  One must tread carefully when learning from the outer faiths, and develop a discerning eye when it comes to translating and synthesizing these systems.  Within these systems are unique views upon the experience of our position in reality, and these opinions seem to be endless.  To make things more difficult, I believe that whomever is in power over us, from an invisible but tangible place, has a method of making our experiences more and more diverse, and we have access to apparatus that can manipulate one another on subconscious levels.  Navigating these hidden powers is difficult to do and harder to instruct.  Some people use implements, some use their body, others only use mental thought, and then of course there is the act of being assisted in these actions by the invisible creatures that give us access to these devices.  Humanity is certainly a special case of being caught in between powers, and one another.

[Mskied]

Fire and destruction will always be the dominant force, it is whether we will have to endure it that is the question, for fire and force are only meant to soften and sharpen the mind and the heart.  There need be no intelligence to violence, it is us that find an answer for it, to bring gentle truth and cooperation.  Be ye a Devil?  Then that is your place, and you will be fire and force and contest, until someone defeats you.  The Devil knows why He uses fire, we are meant to listen and learn.  It is the heart that He wants, and so you will be forced to find it, and the intelligence to make use of your body, mind and talents.

[Ancestor Paul]

On 13 September 2019 at 12:48 PM, Mskied said:

Free Will, lack of resources, environmental challenges- there is no way to control reality, unfortunately, though many prophets and teachers and parents and governors

I believe these obstacles are evident in today's world but I do believe that we can control our reality beyond our expectations but it'll take time, mages are just gods with amnesia and we don't remember all to our existence yet. That'll change when we recall our true being. Magic takes time and requires belief and persistence, and we are at an Information Age where esoteric knowledge keeps popping out, I believe with time more information will come to the surface and magic will continue taking different shapes and forms from generation to generation.

[Integrated]

@Mskied

One of the big challenges with magick is that we all are fed a fantasy narrative about what it is about.

Everyone is playing with these forces, some better than others and some more conscious than others.

 

I think fundamentally the barrier that holds us back is inside us and not outside us, up to a point.

Obviously one needs to affect external reality, but to do that effectively, things must be up and up on the inside first.

 

I guess the real compromise we all have to make, is to vacillate between inner and outer.

As we constantly need to test our new inner reality against what the external world manifests.

This is why people who go to far in either direction oftentimes get lost.

[Ancestor Paul]

7 minutes ago, Integrated said:

Obviously one needs to affect external reality, but to do that effectively, things must be up and up on the inside first.

 As within so without.

[Integrated]

6 minutes ago, Ancestor Paul said:

 As within so without.

 

Yeah that is the principle.

 

Yet as principles go, I often feel that they become bloodless when they get that simple.

Like they and life sort of are divorced and unable to find each other.

But at the same time if no one isolated them, then it would be hard to learn about them.

I feel there are so many traps to fall down into, and my favorite may be to over-complicate things.

Just as there is just as much danger of oversimplification.

 

Hmm, I'll leave it at that before I go overboard on this.

[Ancestor Paul]

1 hour ago, Integrated said:

I feel there are so many traps to fall down into, and my favorite may be to over-complicate things.

Just as there is just as much danger of oversimplification.

I agree with you, the number one reason why people don’t believe in magic is because of how simple it is. They believe that it should be more complicated so they therefore miss the opportunity to even start.

[idiot_stimpy]

On 9/13/2019 at 9:48 PM, Mskied said:

Humanity is certainly a special case of being caught in between powers, and one another.

 

Are you able to expand on the above point, as I find this fascinating. 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

magick you can take anywhere..you can evolve with it..and learn from it and learn to direct it in natural channels that you want..

 

Magic is used to be interweaving within and without everything...magic is a flowing comedy or circus..always producing results for the best price or bargain..

[idiot_stimpy]

Be careful what you wish for, it might not always be the best for you.

[Nungali]

On 29/09/2019 at 4:27 AM, idiot_stimpy said:

 

Are you able to expand on the above point, as I find this fascinating. 

 

'Man stands at the cross roads .'

 

Its about 'spiritual hierarchy stuff ' .   There is all sorts of modern crap written about it, but its source is, of course, in hermetics ;

 

Swedenborg was one of the better known authors that 'specialised ' in it ;

 

The World as Hierarchical Structure of Propensities

http://www.theisticscience.org/papers/smn3b.html

 

 

 

Its modern  applications in psychology / psychiatry is invaluable (if recognised) :

 

" By an extraordinary series of circumstances a confirmation appears to have been found for one of Emanuel Swedenborg's more unusual doctrines-that man's life depends on his relationship to a hierarchy of spirits. Out of my professional role as a clinical psychologist in a state mental hospital and my own personal interest, I set out to describe as faithfully as possible mental patients' experiences of hallucinations. A discovery four years ago helped me to get a relatively rich and consistent picture of the patients' experience. Though I noticed similarities with Swedenborg's description of the relationships of man to spirits it was only three years after all the major findings on hallucinations had been made that the striking similarity between what Twentieth-Century patients describe and Swedenborg's Eighteenth-Century accounts became apparent to me. I then collected as many details as possible of his description. I found that Swedenborg's system not only is an almost perfect fit with patients' experiences, but even more impressively accounts for otherwise quite puzzling aspects of hallucinations. I will first describe how I worked and my findings, and then relate this to Swedenborg's work. "

 

http://www.theisticpsychology.org/books/w.vandusen/presence_spirits.htm

 

 

Its earlier concept based on ;

 

"The chain starts with God and progresses downward to angels, demons (fallen/renegade angels), stars, the Moon, kings, princes, nobles, commoners, wild animals, domesticated animals, trees, other plants, precious stones, precious metals, and other minerals.^[1]

The Great Chain of Being (Latin: scala naturae, "Ladder of Being") is a concept derived from Plato, Aristotle (in his Historia Animalium), Plotinus and Proclus. Further developed during the Middle Ages, it reached full expression in early modern Neoplatonism.^{[2][3] "}

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being

 

 

 

 

 

[Smelly Goatz]

“That all is as thinking makes it so – and you control your thinking. So remove your judgements whenever you wish and then there is calm - as the sailor rounding the cape finds smooth water and the welcome of a waveless bay.”

[mrpasserby]

Magic action thoughts:

Many years ago my old dad, had made some enemies at his work, they got together and paid a Mage practitioner, to send a shadow man to harass my old dad at work, apparently hoping to scare him away. The fear tact might have work for the Mage practitioner to scare off Norms in the past, however, my old dad seeing through the attack, simply walked into the company bathroom puffing hard on a lit cigarette. When the shadow man moved in directly behind my old dad to give him a scare my old dad, quickly turned around yelling go to hell, as he stuck his cigarette through the form of the shadow man touching off the volatile chemicals that the Mage practitioner had use in the summoning ceremony to get the shadow man to appear next to my old dad at work.

Then my old dad confronted the shadow man directly and finding out that the Mage practitioner had been forcing him to go about assaulting people. My old dad was kind to him and brought the shadow man home for me to work with. The next day the news told of a burned-out car parked next to where my old dad worked, and a weirdly dressed man who had all of his hair burned off. When the group of workers who hired the Mage practitioner found out that his car had exploded with him in it, they became afraid of my old dad, so when my old dad questioned them on the subject, they fessed up about having hired the Mage practitioner to scare him into leaving the job, and they said that they would leave my old dad alone in the future.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by mrpasserby
clarity

[senseless virtue]

@mrpasserby Your old man is John Constantine of Hellblazer fame?

 

Anyway, thanks for the entertaining story.

[Jadespear]

Practical uses of what we call "Magick" were why it was spread and taught and used.  Uses for things like healing the sick, attracting rain to grow crops, bringing about seemingly miraculous births, etc.  ( events that could only be made real by the use of Magick, and that people needed to have happen because their circumstances behooved them to be used ) 

 

Magick in essence is about harmony between the inner world and the outer world, not about controlling others and selfish desires.  Magical tools, practices, etc are just like other tools and practices... they can only do so much, we can only do so much.  The entirety of existence is not meant for anyone to control, it's meant to be experienced.  

 

I believe there is a very good reason that high level adepts skilled in Magick come from honorable places, their karma helps them proceed deeper into the mysteries rather than stifling them, because they are not inclined towards the propensity to do anything but help other people and situations with what they know and can do.  The universe aids them, because they aid it.  

 

 

[Nungali]

 

Magick  ( , as defined by the author of the  recent addition / revival of the 'k' at the end of the word  ) ;   

 

" "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will ", including "mundane" acts of will as well as ritual magic."

 

"ANY required change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner, through the proper medium to the proper object "

 

After refining the 'proper'   we become closer to a 'Daoistic' process .

[helpfuldemon]

Thelema and Aliester Crowley never really come together.  On the one hand, the only morality that matters is the morality of the magician, and all morality is valid, except the author is against slave morality. Aside from the contradictions of what he does and does not approve of, he doesn't really have a moral compass except "Do what thou wilt".  His writing is kind of a mess.

[Nungali]

The problem here is your use of the word 'Thelema' .   It is a very loosely defined   system .  Regarding morality and a system Crowley taught , that is NOT loosely defined at all  , morality and ethics do play a large part  and they are not geared solely toward the lone magician. For example , the series of OTO instruction / initiation contains it . Actually a form of it exists in nearly all the initiations . Most notedly in the second and third degree  ; the 'Powers of developing the soul'  and  especially 'The Bonds of Brotherhood' .

 

EG

 

https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib30

 

6, 8, 11, 12.,14, 15, 20, 21.