Mixing systems

[Tryingtodobetter]

Is it possible to combine different methods of energetic cultivation into a workable form?

 

As of late I've been looking into kriya yoga and qigong in general.

 

I am interested in the mind purifying facets of kriya yoga and the energetic control of qigong.

 

Can one practice both daily without any detrimental effect?

 

 

I want to combine a mind purifying practice with qigong because recently I saw an interview with the founder of spring forest qigong and he did the cough at a point when asked a question. That cough people do when they are disturbed by what someone is saying on a deep level, whether it be triggering an old negative experience or them projecting negativity outward and it bouncing back to them, etc.

 

I did not expect to see this behavior in a master of qigong.

 

I do not wish to pursue qigong exclusively if such mental dross is still present at such a high level of attainment.

 

 

Also, an issue I'm currently facing with kriya yoga is that one must be "initiated" in order to practice within an official organization- I think it's something like being sworn in or adopting a lineage, and I am unsure of the spiritual ramifications of that so I am wary of it. Of course I would like to practice the true kriya yoga, though I fear it has been lost to time.

 

 

Last thing, I was considering adding a weekly sensory deprivation chamber visit to my practice based upon what I've read about it so far. Does anyone here have any experience with them?

 

 

Thank you for reading all of this

I know a number of people read posts like this and dont have much to offer by means of advice or personal experience and that's okay- hope you are enjoying your day so far regardless

[Earl Grey]

It depends from system to system and you as an individual.

 

Consult Eric Isen with the systems that interest you and he can tell you how good the synergy will be between the two systems or more for you.

 

www.ayurvedicintuitive.com

[MegaMind]

[Tryingtodobetter]

23 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

It depends from system to system and you as an individual.

 

Consult Eric Isen with the systems that interest you and he can tell you how good the synergy will be between the two systems or more for you.

 

www.ayurvedicintuitive.com

 

I dont have much money and the money I do have I'd rather not spend towards what I perceive to be a relatively simple question to someone seasoned in energy cultivation

 

I dont really know anything of his legitimacy. I dont recall hearing/reading his name anywhere. I think it's fair for me to be hesitant given the aforementioned 

[Tryingtodobetter]

27 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

I know, that's why I was asking about this particular combination on a forum post and not blindly pursuing it without seeking any sort of counsel 

 

 

[MegaMind]

1 minute ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

I know, that's why I was asking about this particular combination on a forum post and not blindly pursuing it without seeking any sort of counsel 

 

 

 

My advice is find one thing, and stick with it. 

[Tryingtodobetter]

I would just try to settle on a qigong form and call it a day, though from what I've read and observed over the years a number of its advanced practitioners appear to be still fairly entrenched in facets of ego, for lack of a better term, and that residual isn't something I want from a system I plan to put a sincere effort into

[Tryingtodobetter]

2 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

My advice is find one thing, and stick with it. 

Just saw your response. I answered it already I guess. Thank you for the prompt responses 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

 

I dont have much money and the money I do have I'd rather not spend towards what I perceive to be a relatively simple question to someone seasoned in energy cultivation

 

I dont really know anything of his legitimacy. I dont recall hearing/reading his name anywhere. I think it's fair for me to be hesitant given the aforementioned 

 

It is not a simple question. But you appear to know more than some people who dedicate years of their lives to be able to give what’s best and if you focus on money then you will get exactly what you put into it.

 

Eric is a good guy and I myself have multiple systems under my belt. Eric has been used by multiple members of this forum and is endorsed by Terry Dunn of Flying Phoenix if you’re so skeptical of his skill and expertise. Searching his name in this forum will show multiple people besides me recommending him and sharing their satisfaction consulting him.

 

When mixing systems, say for example Flying Phoenix can not be mixed with Fragrant due to the no abstract breathing rule. You wouldn’t know that. Flying Phoenix can be mixed with spontaneous forms or sleeping qigong or even Tao Tan Pai as well.

 

I wish you good luck trying to save money on an important lifetime practice and commitment.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Zork]

Asking for kriya yoga and "gigong in general" isn't specific. There are thousands of qigong styles in China. Which one are you refering to?

As a general rule you can mix a physical style like baduajin or yijijing with other forms but it isn't a hard and fast rule. Yijijing in particular is supposed to prepare the body for Xisuijing so yes combinations are possible and sometimes very effective but you need to ask a teacher first or just trailblaze and accept consequences.

[Tryingtodobetter]

6 hours ago, Zork said:

Asking for kriya yoga and "gigong in general" isn't specific. There are thousands of qigong styles in China. Which one are you refering to?

As a general rule you can mix a physical style like baduajin or yijijing with other forms but it isn't a hard and fast rule. Yijijing in particular is supposed to prepare the body for Xisuijing so yes combinations are possible and sometimes very effective but you need to ask a teacher first or just trailblaze and accept consequences.

 

A kriya form that focuses more on the crown than the (eye), preferably

 

In terms of qigong I was thinking something along the line of spring forest qigong- a moving form, I thought I implied that, I apologize for not making that clear. I'm not well versed in qigong, as I've only had experience with sfq so I thought this would be the place to ask

 

I want a system of ego/mental purification to accompany my energy cultivation/control. I would like to be in a position to heal many and be of service in general

[Earl Grey]

32 minutes ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

 

A kriya form that focuses more on the crown than the (eye), preferably

 

In terms of qigong I was thinking something along the line of spring forest qigong- a moving form, I thought I implied that, I apologize for not making that clear. I'm not well versed in qigong, as I've only had experience with sfq so I thought this would be the place to ask

 

I want a system of ego/mental purification to accompany my energy cultivation/control. I would like to be in a position to heal many and be of service in general

 

Then Flying Phoenix is your best bet. 

[doc benway]

I think that there is no inherent problem with combining Qigong and meditation from another system, provided you know what each system and practice entails, their view of things,  how it affects you, what the objectives are, and what your expectations are. In most cases, I suspect we engage in a practice for a bit, have expectations that are unmet, and jump to another. This goes on and on and then we conclude that the practices don't work when we simply have never done them justice. 

 

I would suggest you pick a practice to which you feel a connection and stick with it long enough to see what it's doing for you and whether there is truly a need for anything else in your own experience, not based on observing others. Your experience is not theirs, your experience will be unique to your proclivities and karma. For most people, seeing physical, emotional, and energetic changes takes time - months or years. Also best to receive the most credible and authoritative instruction and guidance in the practice possible. Whether qigong, neigong, meditation,... these are all practices that require precision and commitment to bear fruit.

 

In general, energetic practices like Qigong are highly compatible with meditative practice. In my tradition, every meditation session is preceded by exercises that use the breath, attention, and body movement to clear obstacles to a deeper inner connection and stability. I can't specifically speak to Kriya Yoga as I've never practiced it. Regarding Qigong, I would suggest you look at practices that are designed to clear blockages and restore balance (eg Eight Brocades), as these will support the meditative experience. Qigong and Neigong that is designed to concentrate and build or focus energy (eg martial forms like Shiba Luohangong), are more likely to be disruptive of the meditative process and are probably more likely to have a negative interaction when mixing with other systems. That's my general impression.

 

At the end of the day you need to be a responsible consumer. You need to do your research, find quality instruction, and be the best student you can be. Results are not guaranteed on this path. I would also advise a bit of caution when taking advice from a group of anonymous folks hanging out online. Some speak from solid experience and knowledge, others are a bit wacky and could steer you wrong. 

 

Best of luck to you!

[forestofclarity]

First, I would be careful about being too quick to judge teachers --- they will typically not live up to our book/movie conditioned expectations. Teachers aren't perfect. I wouldn't reject some one because they had a cough.

 

Second, I worked with open source Kriya in the past. I have been the definition of a spiritual dilettante, jumping from practice to practice. I think there is a lot of wisdom in picking and staying with a single practice, but the problem is uncovering what that practice is. Some people pick a practice that doesn't really suit them, and so don't do it. The reason I became a Buddhist isn't because Buddhism is the best, greatest, etc. It is the practice that I kept doing, day in and out, over a long period of time. All other forms of practice eventually fell away. 

 

In my opinion, I think there could be a conflict. First, the visualizations are different. Kriya is more based on classical Indian models whereas qigong is based on Chinese models. While there is some overlap, when conditioning the mind into the tradition, it may introduce an element of confusion. I don't think this would be same if you were well grounded in one tradition, and then learned another. Second, the methods may be quite different. Classical India concentration practices may be more focused, excluding, and active than some Chinese models. It is possible that these would work at cross-purposes. So you may be building skills in one that you undo with the other. Again, I think this is less likely with a strong grounding in one practice. 

 

One way to experiment is to try one method for a short period of time--- two weeks or a month. Then try another. See which one you like.  Some models suit people better than others and appeal more than others. No technique works in a vacuum. A final point is that if you really want to go deep into these practices, you will need guidance from a live teacher. So availability of a teacher may be another factor to consider. 

[Vajra Fist]

On 15/09/2019 at 4:57 AM, Tryingtodobetter said:

I want to combine a mind purifying practice with qigong because recently I saw an interview with the founder of spring forest qigong and he did the cough at a point when asked a question. That cough people do when they are disturbed by what someone is saying on a deep level, whether it be triggering an old negative experience or them projecting negativity outward and it bouncing back to them, etc.

 

I did not expect to see this behavior in a master of qigong.

 

I do not wish to pursue qigong exclusively if such mental dross is still present at such a high level of attainment.

 

 

I've never heard of this before, might he have just had a frog in his throat?

 

In my view, the qigong you'll find on DVDs and in books is all limited to the level of healing and fitness. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I think it's pretty rare to find a qigong practice that offers a complete path all the way up the mountain. Most publicly available stuff stops at the first 'base camp' of healing the body and calming the mind. Many teachers though do have very high levels of attainment, and Chunyi is very well respected (although I have never met him).

 

I think most qigong is great if you go in aware of what you'll likely get back in return. But if you go in hoping to find a practice that will unwind all of the centuries-old karma that is tied up in your every thought, just by waving your arms or breathing in a particular way, then you might be disappointed.

 

If you want that then you really need to spend some serious time in quiet sitting, and later vipassana meditation. (Or else do what I do, and realise that attaining enlightenment in this life with my limited ability and poor character is simply impossible, and practice Pure Land instead).

 

Qigong has its place, and I practice it myself, but mostly only for a healthy body and a peaceful mind.

[voidisyinyang]

On 9/14/2019 at 10:57 PM, Tryingtodobetter said:

Is it possible to combine different methods of energetic cultivation into a workable form?

 

As of late I've been looking into kriya yoga and qigong in general.

 

I am interested in the mind purifying facets of kriya yoga and the energetic control of qigong.

 

Can one practice both daily without any detrimental effect?

 

 

I want to combine a mind purifying practice with qigong because recently I saw an interview with the founder of spring forest qigong and he did the cough at a point when asked a question. That cough people do when they are disturbed by what someone is saying on a deep level, whether it be triggering an old negative experience or them projecting negativity outward and it bouncing back to them, etc.

 

I did not expect to see this behavior in a master of qigong.

 

I do not wish to pursue qigong exclusively if such mental dross is still present at such a high level of attainment.

 

 

Also, an issue I'm currently facing with kriya yoga is that one must be "initiated" in order to practice within an official organization- I think it's something like being sworn in or adopting a lineage, and I am unsure of the spiritual ramifications of that so I am wary of it. Of course I would like to practice the true kriya yoga, though I fear it has been lost to time.

 

 

Last thing, I was considering adding a weekly sensory deprivation chamber visit to my practice based upon what I've read about it so far. Does anyone here have any experience with them?

 

 

Thank you for reading all of this

I know a number of people read posts like this and dont have much to offer by means of advice or personal experience and that's okay- hope you are enjoying your day so far regardless

 

As for the "founder" of Spring Forest Qigong coughing? well I first met him personally when he spoke to my graduate University class on spiritual healing, in 1999, and actually my housemate had meditated with him personally when he started out teaching at a local community college. He then had gone back to China for more advanced training.

 

So yes sometimes he does cough to clear his throat but he does NOT "bounce back negativity" toward people. I personally saw this qigong master making Yuan Shen out of the top of his skull to send out to heal people when I took his Level 3 retreat in 2000 - and I was at an advanced level then. So he is constantly healing people but when he clears out blockages the energy goes back to the Yuan Qi Emptiness level beyond the Yuan Shen. So when I told his assistant - qigong master Jim Nance about what I saw http://guidingqi.com then Jim said yes that Chunyi was sending out "individualized spirits" to heal each person in the room and that was a very advanced level of healing that Jim could not do yet.

 

So for example the "founder" of Spring Forest Qigong (his name actually means Spring Forest) stated that when he returned from China that the air pollution had been SO BAD in China that it took him a while to clear out that blockage. But that may have been before he had his experience of his heart stopping for 2 hours. So he said after that experience of his heart stopping for 2 hours - when he was still walking around fine - then he said that his healing level increased more. So essentially my point is that when he clears out blockages this is as a "beyond death" experience beyond the heart.

 

And yes the "founder" also shared how he read the "Autobiography of a Yogi" book - that was back around 2001 or so when he was still fairly new to the "west." So he later shared how he doesn't have time to read books anymore as he's too busy doing healing.

 

 

[Zork]

On 15/9/2019 at 3:58 PM, Tryingtodobetter said:

I want a system of ego/mental purification to accompany my energy cultivation/control. I would like to be in a position to heal many and be of service in general

If it involves kundalini somehow you can do yijinjing, 8 piece brocades or zhan zhuang to clean and reinforce the meridians to prepare them for the energy flow.

Otherwise i assume there are tons of systems to choose from.

 

The only system you should avoid is fragrant because it is not compatible with deep meditation or unnatural breathing patterns.

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Tryingtodobetter]

5 hours ago, Ocean Form said:

lol

 

I can see why that would be funny to someone

 

I just dont think it's worth the effort of decades of practice of one can be so perturbed by a casual happening. It wasnt the cough of a common cold or similar.

 

I have an idea as to why that might've been. He has talked of spending a lot of time in seclusion and even a period in a cave, a period he alludes to being his peak. I think that his reintegration into society at large lead him to regathering the drosses of particular social quirks and neuroses. He also spoke of him needing to constantly exorcise spirits from his aura/being when he began living in society again, as he was constantly beset by unfavorable energies/entities. Similar happens to even those who do not cultivate or practice anything involving the purification of their energies/minds.

 

I dont think it's something that can be avoided by a cultivator residing in the western sphere, or anywhere really seeing as how the entire world is being slowly westernized, for lack of a better term. The only true option seems to be relatively remote isolation for that sort of thing, and I dont care that much to pursue that path in this moment 

 

Thank you, Ocean Form 

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

 

I can see why that would be funny to someone

 

I just dont think it's worth the effort of decades of practice of one can be so perturbed by a casual happening. It wasnt the cough of a common cold or similar.

 

I have an idea as to why that might've been. He has talked of spending a lot of time in seclusion and even a period in a cave, a period he alludes to being his peak. I think that his reintegration into society at large lead him to regathering the drosses of particular social quirks and neuroses. He also spoke of him needing to constantly exorcise spirits from his aura/being when he began living in society again, as he was constantly beset by unfavorable energies/entities. Similar happens to even those who do not cultivate or practice anything involving the purification of their energies/minds.

 

I dont think it's something that can be avoided by a cultivator residing in the western sphere, or anywhere really seeing as how the entire world is being slowly westernized, for lack of a better term. The only true option seems to be relatively remote isolation for that sort of thing, and I dont care that much to pursue that path in this moment 

 

Thank you, Ocean Form 

 

You must not spend a lot of time living outside of your own country or the city if this is your conclusion about the whole world. Or met some of the great teachers in the west.

 

Some of the greatest teachers out there do live in cities from Beijing to Pittsburgh to NYC and Manila. Some aren’t even known outside of the rural area. But it all comes down to what effort you will put into it and that’s not just money, but the desire to be “comfortable” with who you are rather than going above and beyond.

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

 

I can see why that would be funny to someone

 

I just dont think it's worth the effort of decades of practice of one can be so perturbed by a casual happening. It wasnt the cough of a common cold or similar.

 

I have an idea as to why that might've been. He has talked of spending a lot of time in seclusion and even a period in a cave, a period he alludes to being his peak. I think that his reintegration into society at large lead him to regathering the drosses of particular social quirks and neuroses. He also spoke of him needing to constantly exorcise spirits from his aura/being when he began living in society again, as he was constantly beset by unfavorable energies/entities. Similar happens to even those who do not cultivate or practice anything involving the purification of their energies/minds.

 

I dont think it's something that can be avoided by a cultivator residing in the western sphere, or anywhere really seeing as how the entire world is being slowly westernized, for lack of a better term. The only true option seems to be relatively remote isolation for that sort of thing, and I dont care that much to pursue that path in this moment 

 

Thank you, Ocean Form 

 

when you say "beset by unfavorable energies/entities" - Chunyi Lin shared how ghosts regularly come to him to get healed and so he heals them. He shared this because I SAW the ghosts - they floated in from outside (while Chunyi was in full lotus meditating) - this was in 2000 at the Level 3 retreat. I had fasted for a week and meditated the whole time at age 29 - so I could see the ghosts. I had also read of the highest Buddhist master of Thailand, Phra Acharn Mun, doing the same healing of ghosts - in his biography (that is now free online - when I had read it I ordered it through interlibrary loan).

 

So the ghost healing occurs in the East as much in the West - Phra Acharn Mun was a Forest Monk - in the early 1900s of Thailand. So Thailand was not very Westernized yet when the Buddhist master also was doing ghost healing regularly.

 

As for "social quirks or drosses" - this seems quite silly - depending on what you think is sociable. We could get into a detailed discussion about what is sociable or not - there's a lot about Western society that people have no idea how it affects others (call them quirks if you want or not). For example in South Korea the farmers begged the US soldiers to use their outhouses to get the humanure to grow food. Now would that be considered "quirky" to do in the US? Or "dross"? I suppose.

 

So if you mean trying to appear "successful" in the US - well as in wearing nice Sweatshop Clothes, driving a fancy SUV, going to the Mall and nice classical concerts, taking Cruise ships annually, giving talks at prestigious local centers and teaching via nice hotels, etc. - doing real science research via a Mayo  Clinic doctor - yes the http://springforestqigong.com is very socially successful. Personally I'm not but then maybe I know more about what "success" in the West entails - socially.

 

When spring forest qigong started out the retreats were at a 1950s Christian center in the forest and an austere Nunnery! Was that quirky or dross? Maybe. That is what I preferred but that was before the qigong master was "Americanized" as he said. haha.

 

 

 

[Tryingtodobetter]

17 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

You must not spend a lot of time living outside of your own country or the city if this is your conclusion about the whole world. Or met some of the great teachers in the west.

 

Some of the greatest teachers out there do live in cities from Beijing to Pittsburgh to NYC and Manila. Some aren’t even known outside of the rural area. But it all comes down to what effort you will put into it and that’s not just money, but the desire to be “comfortable” with who you are rather than going above and beyond.

 

I dont believe that the greatest teachers live in major american cities, maybe some of the greatest modern teachers as far as teaching is concerned and disregarding their overall purity

 

"Some aren't even known outside of the rural area." That was part of my point

[Earl Grey]

9 minutes ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

 

I dont believe that the greatest teachers live in major american cities, maybe some of the greatest modern teachers as far as teaching is concerned and disregarding their overall purity

 

"Some aren't even known outside of the rural area." That was part of my point

 

I have encountered three living in major American cities. There’s a fourth one too who is popular here in this forum. Might want to expand your scope then.

[Tryingtodobetter]

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

when you say "beset by unfavorable energies/entities" - Chunyi Lin shared how ghosts regularly come to him to get healed and so he heals them. He shared this because I SAW the ghosts - they floated in from outside (while Chunyi was in full lotus meditating) - this was in 2000 at the Level 3 retreat. I had fasted for a week and meditated the whole time at age 29 - so I could see the ghosts. I had also read of the highest Buddhist master of Thailand, Phra Acharn Mun, doing the same healing of ghosts - in his biography (that is now free online - when I had read it I ordered it through interlibrary loan).

 

So the ghost healing occurs in the East as much in the West - Phra Acharn Mun was a Forest Monk - in the early 1900s of Thailand. So Thailand was not very Westernized yet when the Buddhist master also was doing ghost healing regularly.

 

As for "social quirks or drosses" - this seems quite silly - depending on what you think is sociable. We could get into a detailed discussion about what is sociable or not - there's a lot about Western society that people have no idea how it affects others (call them quirks if you want or not). For example in South Korea the farmers begged the US soldiers to use their outhouses to get the humanure to grow food. Now would that be considered "quirky" to do in the US? Or "dross"? I suppose.

 

So if you mean trying to appear "successful" in the US - well as in wearing nice Sweatshop Clothes, driving a fancy SUV, going to the Mall and nice classical concerts, taking Cruise ships annually, giving talks at prestigious local centers and teaching via nice hotels, etc. - doing real science research via a Mayo  Clinic doctor - yes the http://springforestqigong.com is very socially successful. Personally I'm not but then maybe I know more about what "success" in the West entails - socially.

 

When spring forest qigong started out the retreats were at a 1950s Christian center in the forest and an austere Nunnery! Was that quirky or dross? Maybe. That is what I preferred but that was before the qigong master was "Americanized" as he said. haha.

 

 

 

 

I wasnt talking about him healing ghosts, I knew about that. I was referring to an excerpt I read where he speaks of having to constantly cleanse the areas he was occupying/residing in and himself of low level spirits, that he deemed to be nuisances. It's probably still available somewhere on popular search engines

 

Drosses as in, for example- the harmony that an accountant reaches on an extended vacation from work where their negative behaviors/thought-loops begin to loosen, only to begin returning once they are back in the office and reimmersed. Or the place inner/outer that a meditator reaches on a two week retreat on an island, versus the quality of that inner space once they've returned to their lifestyles. Sorry if I was too vague 

 

I dont know why you feel as though I'm attacking your credentials/experience or that of the spring forest qigong organization as a whole. As I stated previously, I dont think what I saw had to do with a fault in his practice 

[Tryingtodobetter]

Just now, Earl Grey said:

 

I have encountered three living in major American cities. There’s a fourth one too who is popular here in this forum. Might want to expand your scope then.

 

That's believable. It's not that I dont believe they exist altogether, I just think it's fairly uncommon. Spotless is cool, I know he isn't a teacher though- so whoever that guy is, merit