Please submit your questions for the Mo Pai FAQ

[MegaMind]

We would like your questions to add to our Mo Pai FAQ.

 

Thanks very much.

Edited October 24, 2019 by MegaMind

[sean]

Some basic questions:

• What is Mo Pai?
• Who are the current lineage holders?
• What schools currently practice?
• How does Mo Pai compare with other traditions and practices?
• Can Mo Pai be practiced without a teacher or group?

Sean

 

[MegaMind]

1 hour ago, sean said:

Some basic questions:

• What is Mo Pai?
• Who are the current lineage holders?
• What schools currently practice?
• How does Mo Pai compare with other traditions and practices?
• Can Mo Pai be practiced without a teacher or group?

Sean

 

 

 

Can you explain your question "What schools currently practice?" a bit more?

 

"How does Mo Pai compare with other traditions and practices?"

 

Can you give me some metrics you would like compared?

 

[Zork]

Some other questions:

1. What is the purpose of the system? (you avoid answering in the FAQ, please answer)
2. What is the main method it uses? (obviously it isn't MCO)
3. Why is it preferable in your opinion to others systems available? (please state something other than the inaccurate mantra" it has been proven in the presense of scientists"). Advantages and disadvantages of the system?
4. Are there any side effects to training? At least that a novice should be aware of?
5. What is the history of the system? How does it tie in with MoZi?
6. Which tenets of MoZi does your group follow?

Edited September 25, 2019 by Zork

[Starjumper]

I have a couple of questions:

 

Why did John teach Jim only two techniques in two years when real nei kung contains hundreds to thousands of techniques?

 

Why did he only teach Jim techniques which are openly available to beginners for free on the internet?

 

Why did Jim publish pictures of himself with terribly incorrect posture?

 

Why did John Chang not correct Jim's glaring mistakes while he was there for two years?

 

Why did Jim die young if he knew the path of the immortal?

 

Why did Kostas Danos leave John Chang to go look for Christian monks in his homeland of Greece, who he said had the same abilities as John?

 

Why do the true students of Mo Pai, the Eastern Mo Pai students, despise the Western Mo Pai Students (WIMPS), and sincerely hope that they all go to hell?

 

Why do the Western Mo Pai Students post easily faked videos of John's magic tricks as proof that they know the true way?

 

Why have the Western Mo Pai Students insisted that practitioners of Western Mo Pai sit on the ground with bare butts or stick copper wires in their butts?

 

Why do the Western Mo Pai Students present themselves as knowledgeable when the only know a purported  2.77% (0.0277) of the purported complete system?

 

Why do the Western Mo Pai Students say they have discovered technique #3 for a total of 4.16% (0.0416), when the true practices are being carefully hidden from them?

 

Why are there so many books in English purporting to be authorities on the Mo Pai system when they are clueless?

 

Why do so many Western Mo Pai promoters have serious emotional problems?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Starjumper

[sean]

@Starjumper I realize you're like the deadliest, most extremely heterosexual boomer alive in the world today, so it's probably tough not to trip over your own swole dick here, but maybe asking sincerely worded questions in good faith would be more effective? That is, if you genuinely care for dialogue. If you already know the answers, which it sounds like you're sure you do, maybe there's no point in even asking most/all of these disingenuous questions? Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Sean

 

[sean]

Another FAQ question:

 

How does your practice "transmute the three treasures", and if it doesn't, how would you respond to people who would argue it's therefore not truly a neigong practice?

 

Sean

 

[Starjumper]

3 hours ago, sean said:

@Starjumper I realize you're like the deadliest, most extremely heterosexual boomer alive in the world today, so it's probably tough not to trip over your own swole dick here, but maybe asking sincerely worded questions in good faith would be more effective? That is, if you genuinely care for dialogue. If you already know the answers, which it sounds like you're sure you do, maybe there's no point in even asking most/all of these disingenuous questions? Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Sean

 

Thank you for your kind advice.  I returned and edited the post to make the questions more sincerely worded.  I removed all mention of Wimps, except for the first one, and removed the last question, about why the Wimps are so unethical, I already know the answer to that one.  It is because self honesty is not a requirement for joining their ranks, and of course self honesty is a necessary prelude to honesty in general.  Other than that, all the questions actually are sincere, and I know they will not be answered (refer back to previous sentence).

 

It is too bad that your generation has been trained to not respect their elders.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Starjumper

[MegaMind]

4 hours ago, sean said:

Another FAQ question:

 

How does your practice "transmute the three treasures", and if it doesn't, how would you respond to people who would argue it's therefore not truly a neigong practice?

 

Sean

 

 

 

HI Sean,

 

This question is a bit like asking about microcosmic orbit practice as it relates to Mo Pai. 

 

The question is non-sequitur as it uses terminologies and methodologies that are unrelated to Mo Pai.

 

For example many people believe you must be celibate to store up Jing to later to convert to Chi.

 

In Mo Pai celibacy is done to prevent the tearing of the LDT, not because it is needed to store up Jing.

 

As such I can't answer this question any more than I can "How many dogs do I need to bathe to win the lottery?"

 

I hope that helps.

Edited September 25, 2019 by MildMouse23

[Nungali]

To match your evasive  non-answer

 

 

 

 

One , of course .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MegaMind]

I am posting this here because there are parts of it that need to be questions in the new FAQ whenever I have time to revise it:

 

I did not want to forget about these questions as the other thread continues to rage on into a flame war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 9/22/2019 at 1:43 AM, Zork said:

The only way a FAQ can work is if the community posts the questions, the WMP answer and one like Sean mediates so that it can have some usefulness.

 

1)Saying things like WMP is not qigong is not an acceptable answer because it is misinformation and deception.

There is one of the five original western students of mo pai quoted above clarifying that neigong happens after level 4. Which means that westerners practice some preparatory form of qigong mo pai.

 

2)Saying that they don't believe in supernatural entities and then having Chang in video with possessed swords, exorcisms and talking about yin spirits, isn't exact or true either.

 

3)Claiming that WMP is the same as the MoPai Chang teaches isn't correct either. Jim McMillan claims that he pushed the cardboxes in the video using Chang's yin field. So he is clear that the presence of a teacher affects the results.

 

I am OK if they don't mention everything in the FAQ but telling blatant lies like the above isn't OK at all!

 

PS: Will the purpose/end result of the system be included in the FAQ?

 

On 9/22/2019 at 8:11 AM, MildMouse23 said:

 

1 There is no such thing as WMP, there is only MP.

MP is a system of neigong, not a system of qigong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2  ""Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke

 

There are many things modern science lacks paradigms to explain,  we in fact are not nearly as advanced as we give ourselves credit for.

There is nothing supernatural in the entire universe, and there can be nothing that is supernatural.

 

If a thing exists, or an event occurs it must be by definition natural.

Supernatural as a description of a thing or an event exists only because we lack the necessary scientific paradigms to explain it.

 

If you were to show handheld CB radios to people from the 1400s you would be burned at the stake for witchcraft.

They would lack the paradigms necessary to make sense of the technology.

All of John's abilities, and yin spirits are purely natural.

We encourage people to base their beliefs off objective video evidence, and their own first hand observations, and not accept things as true on faith, a book, or the personal testimony of other people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 The teachings for the levels we have are the same,  if Jim had been allowed to continue his training, and he progressed to level 4, he would have been able to do such a demo without John providing a dense field of yin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS If you have critically read Kosta's books this should be crystal clear.

This question is best not delved into as it has been the cause of many arguments.

 

Our purpose for pursuing the system is to practice something with good objective video evidence, showing doctors and scientists doing their best to rule out fraud occurring.

We want to practice something with good evidence behind it, and we want to see for ourselves from our own training the reality of it.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 10:02 AM, sean said:

 

Fine by me.

 

I was originally proposing that we'd solicit questions from the community. But if you'd prefer to just incrementally update your FAQ as you encounter common misconceptions or whatever that's fine.

 

My other two cents, "Is Mo Pai Qigong?" seems like it could use a bit more explanation, e.g. from your school's perspective what is qigong, what is neigong, why specifically is your system neigong, why do you mix Chinese romanization spellings 😜, etc.

 

Sean

 

 

On 9/24/2019 at 3:12 PM, Zork said:

Their definition of Neigong is nonstandard and tottaly incorrect.

There are many qigong systems that use yin qi.

That doesn't make them neigong!

MoPai by Chang past level 4 is neigong.

Pre Level 4 it is qigong.

If crap like that makes it to their terrible FAQ* it has no place here.

 

*Seriously people, which FAQ in the entire history of FAQs starts with information on where to find the instructors?

No info on what mopai is? No mention of MoZi?

And instead we get random info on ad hominem attacks aimed at Jim that no one mentioned in years!

 

On 9/24/2019 at 3:49 PM, sean said:

 

To be fair, the FAQ isn't here, it's only a link in someone's signature. Otherwise, beneath the distracting sense that you're yelling this entire post, LOL, I think are some legit criticisms of the FAQ, even just from a basic marketing perspective.

 

Would love for it to start by answering basic questions, like What is Mo Pai? Who started it? Who holds the lineage now? Are there multiple schools? How does Mo Pai compare to other living neigong traditions?

 

Instead we're thrown into the deep end about anus wires and an unintroduced character named Jim's cancer. 😳

 

Hopefully constructive criticism.

 

Sean

 

 

On 9/24/2019 at 4:06 PM, Zork said:

That is what i mean Sean. FAQs start like the way you mention. They don't start with : "to contact us ....."

And obviously if and how they use wires isn't or at least shouldn't be a frequently asked question by sane people!

I mean come on, how many of you that teach internal systems gets asked on how he uses wires?

 

On whether they were taught everything, i can only say that i sincerely believe that they have everything that Jim and Kostas told them. The only one who knows for sure whether they were taught everything for their level, is Chang and for obvious reasons he isn't available. That creates the problem that their claim can't be verified in any way.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 5:02 PM, MildMouse23 said:

 

Jim recorded the instruction by his teacher John, of course you can create some new theory that it was deep-faked if you like.

 

Also I agree with you that we shouldn't have to mention the wires bit, but unfortunately it seems that we do as it is something that repeatedly keeps coming up.

 

5 hours ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

 

According to Chinese thought, there are basically two types of
training involving our vital energies: ch’ikung and neikung.

...

ch’ikung centers on the development and control of yang ch’i (also
called lii ch’i or “fire” ch’i), while neikung involves the joint employ-
ment of yang ch’i and yin ch’i (called “water” ch’i or kann ch’i)

 

The Magus Of Java Page 22

 

 

 

 

 

 

I use my yin and yang together as one;
that is why I can do what I do. By itself, yang ch’i cannot pass the
limits of the body.”

 

“Neikung,” I had said.

 

The Magus Of Java Page 13

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then John’s student came back; he had
managed to find a straight razor at a local cutlery shop. John gave
the ch’ikung master the razor and asked him to cut him anywhere he
liked. Try as he might, the man could not hurt John, even though in
the end he put all his power and emotion into it.”

 

“What happened then?” I asked.

“Nothing. The man had lost the contest.”

“Did he become John’s student?”

“No. He was too proud.”

“Do you know why the man lost?” John asked suddenly from
behind us. He had crept up silently and was listening in.

“Because he had only yang ch’i?” I replied.

 

“That’s correct. He was a dedicated practitioner, but he didn’t
have all the proper information. What he did was ch’ikung, but not
neikung. A man can train all his life and not get anywhere unless he
is correct in his training.

 

The Magus Of Java Page 96

 

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

There has been a lot of negativity about Mo Pai on the forum over the years, and it`s understandable that members of MildMouse`s group might feel a need to defend their practice.  Still, coming to the discussion with the sole intention to do "damage control" creates a dynamic that (unwittingly?) exacerbates the problem rather than helps.

 

Some questions I am curious about...

 

Could you tell us a little bit about the nature of the practice itself? 

 

What is the end goal of the practice?

 

What experiences have group members had and how has the practice impacted their lives for the better? 

 

4 hours ago, Zork said:

This only proves that Chang uses neikung which i already mentioned. You supply zero proof that your group uses neigong within the 3 levels you have.

As i said before there are qigong systems that use both yin and yang chi.

 

3 hours ago, sean said:

 

This keeps coming up. Can you describe the criteria for which their group could sufficiently prove to you that they "use neigong"?

 

Sean

 

 

3 hours ago, Zork said:

I have already asked that question repeatedly Sean. The question was : which of the 3 levels available to your group transmutes the 3 treasures?

From    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neigong

 

2 hours ago, sean said:

 

OK, I think we have exceptionally different conceptions of proof so I'm trying to get clear on what your full criteria is.

 

So, at a high level, "proof" for you would be a description of practices that "transmute the three treasures".

 

Let's say they described such a practice and made this exact claim. Specifically what components would have to be present in their practice for you to agree that, OK, yes, this practice does in fact "transmute the three treasures".

 

Sean

 

 

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

There's no need to challenge the easily faked video of John lighting paper on fire.  I can vouch that it is possible to make things really hot, and you can take my word for it.  My teacher could make things very hot, and I can make people exclaim in pain from the heat if I shine a hand on them for a few seconds.  If I wanted to join the circus I could put on demos like this guy, but I will never join that circus.  The thing is that immature people can never know why the most advanced masters do not demonstrate the real advanced techniques in public.  Making things hot or warm is not an advanced technique.

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

... and THAT  comment  / observation  ^   coming from a  John Chang / Mopie   supporter !

 

Our guy does it ....   'proof of magic  !  '

 

Another guy does it  ....   ' we  know how he faked it  !   '

 

 

Seriously .... aren't  you even embarrassed by this ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The whole thing is a pile of crap anyway . 

 

Why would a 'master' need to use paper  soaked in water (and ?  ..... but ... but , it was from a tea pot ... it MUST have been pure water ! )  and aluminium foil to generate heat into someone's back .... when he could have just used his hands ?

 

people used to tell me that when Mr Nishihira  would   demonstrate  a technique ('show you how it feels') on you, that had struck a weak point or nerve complex , he would then rub his palms together  and hold one over the area, it would get hot and then the pain would go away .  I have also felt it from a very competent masseur  ( actually, it was a friend GF, on being introduced  she touched my shoulder ,  and immediately commented I must have had an injury there ... it was like her hand was magnetically attracted to it . She laid me down there and then and did a treatment on it  ... VERY hot hands .   I have felt this more than once .   I am sure others have .

 

The rest is all stage magic ... set ups, big crowds  and usually money involved somehow .

 

Cant people tell by what these tricksters  are doing  ?  Is it all so unobvious to so many ? 

 

I suppose its becasue some people WANT to believe .... that is an incredibly powerful tool for the entrance of ignorance .

 

18 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Pffft   ... science and medical doctors present !   What would they know about such things ?

 

No ,  you need these guys present  ;

 

 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

'Rule out fraud on video '

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

No it isnt . and if you think it is  you are NOT being rational at all .

 

The best anyone can do is simply feel it for yourselves  ... and NOT waste time making silly magic videos  with alleged testing done in it .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MegaMind]

6 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I have a couple of questions:

 

Why did John teach Jim only two techniques in two years when real nei kung contains hundreds to thousands of techniques?

 

Why did he only teach Jim techniques which are openly available to beginners for free on the internet?

 

Why did Jim publish pictures of himself with terribly incorrect posture?

 

Why did John Chang not correct Jim's glaring mistakes while he was there for two years?

 

Why did Jim die young if he knew the path of the immortal?

 

Why did Kostas Danos leave John Chang to go look for Christian monks in his homeland of Greece, who he said had the same abilities as John?

 

Why do the true students of Mo Pai, the Eastern Mo Pai students, despise the Western Mo Pai Students (WIMPS), and sincerely hope that they all go to hell?

 

Why do the Western Mo Pai Students post easily faked videos of John's magic tricks as proof that they know the true way?

 

Why have the Western Mo Pai Students insisted that practitioners of Western Mo Pai sit on the ground with bare butts or stick copper wires in their butts?

 

Why do the Western Mo Pai Students present themselves as knowledgeable when the only know a purported  2.77% (0.0277) of the purported complete system?

 

Why do the Western Mo Pai Students say they have discovered technique #3 for a total of 4.16% (0.0416), when the true practices are being carefully hidden from them?

 

Why are there so many books in English purporting to be authorities on the Mo Pai system when they are clueless?

 

Why do so many Western Mo Pai promoters have serious emotional problems?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Western Mo Pai Students (WIMPS)"

 

Last time I checked personal attacks were a no go here. 

 

I see this as a personal attack.

 

 

[Earl Grey]

12 hours ago, MildMouse23 said:

as the other thread continues to rage on into a flame war.

 

 

Which is all the more amusing considering that you started that thread as a derailment, a minor kind of trolling, then hoped Mo Pai, a topic you wished would not be brought up in this forum, was brought up and forced on us by you.

 

Kettle, meet teapot.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Earl Grey

[MegaMind]

3 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Which is all the more amusing considering that you started that thread as a derailment, a minor kind of trolling, then hoped Mo Pai, a topic you wished would not be brought up in this forum, was brought up and forced on us by you.

 

Kettle, meet teapot.

 

I was told to create a new thread as the old thread was being derailed, so I did.

 

It seems the only solution you would accept is silence.

[Earl Grey]

14 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

I was told to create a new thread as the old thread was being derailed, so I did.

 

It seems the only solution you would accept is silence.

 

Shall I remind you that you ignored most questions I asked, continued to turn the conversation to Mo Pai, could have made it a PM when you initially labeled the thread “For Earl Grey” and completely ignored my offer to take it to my own PPJ when you said you didn’t have a PPJ?

 

You just wanted a public spectacle. And I still have no issue with your group, by the way, but rather your dishonesty, disrespect, and dismissiveness.

 

So don’t play the victim game and put words in my mouth by saying “the only solution you would accept is silence” because anyone with any sense knows that that’s bullshit.

[MegaMind]

5 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Shall I remind you that you ignored most questions I asked, continued to turn the conversation to Mo Pai, could have made it a PM when you initially labeled the thread “For Earl Grey” and completely ignored my offer to take it to my own PPJ when you said you didn’t have a PPJ?

 

You just wanted a public spectacle. And I still have no issue with your group, by the way, but rather your dishonesty, disrespect, and dismissiveness.

 

So don’t play the victim game and put words in my mouth by saying “the only solution you would accept is silence” because anyone with any sense knows that that’s bullshit.

 

If you say so.

[Earl Grey]

3 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

If you say so.

 

All easily visible in the first three pages.

[moment]

I honestly have never ran across a subject that wastes more time than that of Mopai.  Hey you, (those that need to be tied to the mast of their ship while listening to the siren song of promise) Mopai can be extremely dangerous for your physical and mental health. If you do not have a VERY deep foundation,  LEARNED FROM LONG-TIME HEALTHY, SANE practitioners---that goes far beyond what is commercially available, and that you have learned from people you trust, respect and yes, even love (personally and up close) over ten or twenty years----DO NOT FUCK WITH IT!  

[welkin]

@MildMouse23 Can reverse breathing really damage your root chakra? It seems like it ruptured someone's root chakra a few months ago, and i haven't stopped hearing disdain for it sense.

 

 

[welkin]

35 minutes ago, moment said:

I apologize for not being the primary addressee. But, in the interests of a health need you cited, please pass on: if there is damage to the root chakra, Sodarshan Chakra Kriya can be very helpful and if done correctly, fairly quick.

I might add there is nothing wrong with reverse breathing if properly supervised in person by a master. Of course the operative word here is IF.

 

Sorry moment, was being sarcastic towards person(s) throwing specific energy on this forum. Thank you for the advice though.

Edited September 27, 2019 by welkin

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Which is all the more amusing considering that you started that thread as a derailment, a minor kind of trolling, then hoped Mo Pai, a topic you wished would not be brought up in this forum, was brought up and forced on us by you.

 

Kettle, meet teapot.

 

I like it  further up the page here where he went back and edited  the fish bike comment  to  dog bathing and lottery  .... because I posted a picture of a fish bike .

 

Well .... that;ll show me ! 

 

 

 

 and the long post of  all the quotes all together with no responses as he wants to keep a record of it .

 

 

 

 

He's getting more nuts as this goes on

 

 

[Nungali]

.....  if I say so .

[doc benway]

I realize you're like the deadliest, most extremely heterosexual boomer alive in the world today, so it's probably tough not to trip over your own swole dick here, but maybe asking sincerely worded questions in good faith would be more effective? That is, if you genuinely care for dialogue. If you already know the answers, which it sounds like you're sure you do, maybe there's no point in even asking most/all of these disingenuous questions? Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Sean

 

 

 

[doc benway]

[thelerner]

Question..

What percentage of Mo Pai is done sitting. 

What percentage standing?

How does the standing relate and compliment the sitting meditation?

 

Breath pattern.. what type is used most often?