Qigong that reduces anger

[funnerfun]

I am looking to hear about people's experiences with qigong where it has reduced the habit of irritability or anger.  I too easily yell in traffic or get defensive with a raised voice in interpersonal relationships.

 

Please let me know if someone has found a specific qigong or any combination of qigong that has not just quieted the mind, but has helped to soften the grumpy reflex.

 

Thanks!

[sean]

Welcome @funnerfun 👋

[Earl Grey]

12 hours ago, funnerfun said:

I am looking to hear about people's experiences with qigong where it has reduced the habit of irritability or anger.  I too easily yell in traffic or get defensive with a raised voice in interpersonal relationships.

 

Please let me know if someone has found a specific qigong or any combination of qigong that has not just quieted the mind, but has helped to soften the grumpy reflex.

 

Thanks!

 

Relaxtion qigong taught by John Dolic.

 

www.qigongchinesehealth.com

[markern]

I have done a lot of six healing sounds and the liver sound cleansed out anger very effectively. It also allowed me to dig deeper into the wounds that caused the anger. I used to do all six sounds 3 times as is a standard small practice and do more on one or two organs where I felt more pressing emotional issues or felt like working more to get things resolved. I also remember a user on the forum here writing he used the liver sound to overcome a pretty deep anger problem. It took him two years of practice to completely overcome it. 

[liminal_luke]

HI Funnerfun,

 

I second Markern´s suggestion of using the liver healing sound to cleanse anger.  There might be several systems of the healing sounds but the one I´m familiar with is from Mantak Chia.  Master Chia has many detractors here on the board but I think the very basics of his system -- inner smile, healing sounds -- are very good.  He says that when the liver energy is unbalanced it manifests as anger; the liver healing sound transforms the anger into the energy of kindness.  There are books by Chia about the six healing sounds on Amazon as well as Youtube videos.  In my experience it can take awhile for the sound and posture to make a difference, many more repetitions than the 3 or 6 usually recommended.

 

Another more cathartic method comes from the somatic body-mind practice of Zapchen.  Here´s a video of Zapchen practitioner Laura Lund demonstrating how to deal with anger.  

 

 

[thelerner]

I like the healing sounds, but I wonder if such energy arts are the right tool for the problem.

 

There's a mental yoga technique or is it NLP- where you imagine the trigger, then imagine your usual reaction, back to trigger and imagine reacting cooly, or with good humor, then repeat many times.  Do it in the morning, at night.  Its pretty quick.  Give yourself mental high fives when you catch yourself reacting properly. 

 

 

[Taomeow]

It is not an abnormal function of the Liver to produce anger in response to adequate stimuli -- on the contrary, it is one of its normal functions.  A major task of the Liver is to deal with toxins.  A normal amount of anger is like a normal amount of liver enzymes -- something you produce in order to be able to metabolize, deactivate, and/or remove from the body any toxins thrown your way. 

 

Per my assessment of the amount of toxic feelings and emotions (coupled with a drastic deficiency of the nurturing and beneficial ones) we are exposed to from the start and then every day of our lives, excessive anger is not the outcome of a faulty Liver -- on the contrary, a faulty Liver is the outcome of too many emotional toxins thrown its way.  Excessive anger is produced when it has to process excessive toxins beyond capacity.  Just like elevated liver enzymes, elevated cholesterol, etc., elevated anger starts out as a coping mechanism.  I would think twice before fixing that mechanism.  Instead of removing anger you might end up somatizing it, i.e. you will hurt your own body for someone else's transgressions -- not the best outcome.  Somatized anger will manifest (among other things) as elevated levels of stress hormones that can damage all organs and functions.  

 

Unless of course it's so out of control that it will produce additional problems for yourself and others should you express it full force, just relax and get angry.  Trust yourself not to get an "anger diarrhea" -- control it when expressing too much of it can realistically hurt or endanger others or yourself -- but don't make it your task to control it always for all purposes in all circumstances.  Don't delegitimize your anger.  In many cases it's legit.  I think the art of anger is accessible via Sun Tzu, just something to master like any high level skill.  Addressing it via qigong is not likely to be either enough or the right method.  Neigong, maybe.  But not even that unless your level is unimaginably high.  Immortals and gods and bodhisattvas get angry.  (Yes, even the merciful Quan Yin, to say nothing of Bu Dong.)  I wouldn't try to outholy the holy ones, it seldom comes out as intended, and never-angry passive aggressive types is one outcome I have seen often and cared about little.

 

Besides, I find the scenario shown below to be pretty realistic.    

 

 

 

[moment]

On 9/30/2019 at 7:29 PM, funnerfun said:

I am looking to hear about people's experiences with qigong where it has reduced the habit of irritability or anger.  I too easily yell in traffic or get defensive with a raised voice in interpersonal relationships.

 

Please let me know if someone has found a specific qigong or any combination of qigong that has not just quieted the mind, but has helped to soften the grumpy reflex.

 

Thanks!

In the early 70's I had the honor of being introduced to acupressure by Yoshihiko Hirata in Seattle, Wa. One of the points learned was CV-17 (The Sea of Tranquility).  Close your eyes and focus on your breathing and after a minute or so apply pressure at CV-17 right between your nipples. Take deep breathes while massaging and pressing this area.  Your chest should not rise as you breathe but, your stomach and sides should.  Increase finger pressure as feels appropriate. Do this until you start feeling a deep calmness. If done five to ten minutes every day it will continue to take your calmness to a new level..To go even deeper into this you should talk to a traditional  acupuncturist.  It will open your meditation horizon.  I have included a video here to get you started.(CV-17 is sometimes called REN 17).  CV-17 is at about seven minutes. Tai Chong(LV3) to a lesser degree can also be helpful for anger. It is at 3:25.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by moment

[moment]

As an adjunct to what I gave above: For more immediate short-term results when a situation is angering you; try a deep slow vibrating in your throat.  Be mindful of working it down to the base of your throat and back up to your nasal cavities. This will not only help to relax your shoulder and neck area, it also helps balance you mentally. If you can get to the point where you can do that while putting a part of your mind into the lower dantian -- you will almost instantly get better at handling whatever.

Edited October 3, 2019 by moment

[rideforever]

There are many ways.

But the fastest way is to find the person who caused anger in you in the first place, and punch them in the face.

Anything else is just beating around the bush.

 

( or you can speak to them and forgive them, that's also possible, and come face to face with the fact that you can't control what people do, and that relationships are sharing things, even bad things; and behaviour is not guaranteed )

[liminal_luke]

14 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Don't delegitimize your anger. 

 

 

This is a great point.  To my mind, anger (and other emotions) are always legitimate. Which isn´t to say that the target of your anger necessarily deserves your scorn. Maybe they don´t.  But if you´re angry, it´s not for nothing.  There´s always a good reason. The reason may be something physiological, biochemical or neurological, or it may be related to something in your past.  Rest assured though: there is a reason and it´s a good one.  As Chi Nei Tsang teacher Gilles Marin says, emotions are not rational.  Emotions simply are and they need to be validated.

 

If you can, don´t be angry at your anger.  Don´t approach anger as if it was an enemy combatant to be eradicated.  Difficult emotions like anger respond best to gentleness and curiosity.  Bring as much open awareness to your anger as you can muster.  Feeling angry doesn´t make you a monster; it makes you human.

Edited October 3, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Taomeow]

7 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

 As Chi Nei Tsang teacher Gilles Marin says, emotions are not rational.  Emotions simply are and they need to be validated.

 

 

My former "guru" made a distinction between emotions and feelings.  Feelings was the term he used to address systemic responses to actual experiences of the whole organism.  They were healthy if the experiences could be successfully and safely integrated into consciousness, and turned unhealthy if the experience was such that consciousness couldn't accept it -- in which case they were relegated to the unconscious.  Unconscious feelings are not irrational -- irrationality arises from that disconnect, from the gap between "what I know about me" and "what I don't know even though it's my actual experience, something that really happened to me." 

 

Irrational emotions arise from disconnected feelings.  Feelings run deeper and, even if they are disconnected from consciousness, they are always connected to our basic life functions, to our aliveness itself.  Healthy emotions reflect that.  Unhealthy emotions reflect frustrated foundational aliveness.  

[rideforever]

Practically speaking, you can just do some "get your emotions out" screaming shouting tennis racket smacking the pillows, being assertive ... i.e. express your expression.   That's relatively easy.

You can also do 6 healing sounds and breath out the "poison" ... takes longer and if you need to learn to express your feelings it doesn't really help.

There are actually several layers of emotions when you are angry:

 

(1) Pushing away anger : you have been taught not to be angry so you are actually experiencing a battle to not express anger and trying to "control yourself".

(2) Anger itself : this is a sharp defensive energy, when things have gone too far the you attack, to defend.

(3) Wound : some pain or wound that hurts that's underneath it.

(4) Smooth wood energy ... eventually you need to get to the place of smooth expression of the wood energy which is growing nurturing asserting etc...

 

Getting the tennis racket out and wacking your bed, or putting your "dad" in an empty chair and shouting at him telling him all those things you didn't say ... and then having a breakdown.   This is very good very honest and very fast.  Try that first.  The put the racket away get in the bed and cry your eyes out.

 

It is important not to keep trying to get something from somebody who will not give it to you.

You wanted love, you didn't get it.

You wanted time, space, support ... you didn't get it.

Instead you get push back.

Then you get angry.

Okay.

Maybe these people can't do it.

So ... just see that, and let them go, and try to find someone who can give you more what you need.

 

 

[funnerfun]

On 10/1/2019 at 10:15 AM, markern said:

I have done a lot of six healing sounds and the liver sound cleansed out anger very effectively. It also allowed me to dig deeper into the wounds that caused the anger. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion! What did the 6 healing sounds do for you overtime - how were you in the beginning and then after doing them for months?

[funnerfun]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:01 PM, Taomeow said:

It is not an abnormal function of the Liver to produce anger in response to adequate stimuli.

 

Thanks for your in-depth response. I agree that all emotions are normal, and I certainly wouldn't want to extinguish all emotional life.  However, I quoted the first part of your response, because I think that's the crux.

 

* When I get defensive and react to something my partner has said or yell in traffic these are stimuli that aren't adequate or deserving of such an intense response. Often we fear something or react to something that isn't really there or isn't there to the degree we assume it is. So my objective is to lower my overall stress, and hopefully be more chill snd less likely to overeact. I could have easily titled this thread - How to reduce Over-reaction or reactivity.

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, funnerfun said:

 

Thanks for your in-depth response. I agree that all emotions are normal, and I certainly wouldn't want to extinguish all emotional life.  However, I quoted the first part of your response, because I think that's the crux.

 

* When I get defensive and react to something my partner has said or yell in traffic these are stimuli that aren't adequate or deserving of such an intense response. Often we fear something or react to something that isn't really there or isn't there to the degree we assume it is. So my objective is to lower my overall stress, and hopefully be more chill snd less likely to overeact. I could have easily titled this thread - How to reduce Over-reaction or reactivity.

 

It may also be cultural to varying extents.  There's cultures that are more accepting of anger expressions, and then there's the ones where it's unacceptable and can even get one arrested --you are just not supposed to get angry no matter how justified your anger is unless you are in some position of power or other, then of course you can get as angry as you like.   One kind of anger I can't stand is directed by an adult at a child, no holds barred, they can go all out because it is the ultimate power trip, that's where power abuse in all spheres has its roots.  Hate that shit.  

 

And in many cases, that excessive anger you're talking about, not justified by the trifle nature of the irritant, is the outcome -- people who were never allowed to explode in anger when they were little, who were expected to regulate their emotions better than adults do, live on a keg of accumulated powder as adults.  That's why some of them explode from the tiniest spark.  

 

But back to the cultural differences...  Of course it's not the practical solution for most cases, but I sometimes think that if I was unable to control anger, I'd go live where it's acceptable to get angry.  The yelling I've witnessed in some other countries...  here it would be happening seconds before someone gets jumped, beaten up, arrested, or shot.  There, they yell at each other like madmen and madwomen, let off steam, and then calm down and don't think twice about what happened.  What happened?  They got angry.  So what?  They're human.  I lived in a lovely place once, in Italy, with upstairs neighbors, a married couple, who not only yelled at each other every day but threw stuff, including what sounded like heavy furniture.  Broke quite a lot of dishes too.  But then I'd meet them on the way out, smiling, kissing, looking radiant and very loving.  Different strokes.    

[funnerfun]

18 hours ago, Taomeow said:

who not only yelled at each other every day but threw stuff, including what sonded like heavy furniture.  Broke quite a lot of dishes too.  But then I'd meet them on the way out, smiling, kissing, looking radiant and very loving.  Different strokes.    

 

Of course, I agree different cultures and people have different expectations and tolerance. 

 

I guess, though, I'm really looking for (in this particular post) what qigong practitioners have personally experienced in terms of temperament BEFORE starting qigong and AFTER having done qigong for some odd months/years.

 

Again, my interest is if someone had a lot of stress and possibly rage tendency prior to qigong, do people notice a distinct change after months of qigong practices? 

Edited October 6, 2019 by funnerfun

[ilumairen]

 

1 hour ago, funnerfun said:

I guess, though, I'm really looking for (in this particular post) what qigong practitioners have personally experienced in terms of temperament BEFORE starting qigong and AFTER having done qigong for some odd months/years.

 

Again, my interest is if someone had a lot of stress and possibly rage tendency prior to qigong, do people notice a distinct change after months of qigong practices? 

 

The only individual I'm presently recalling who discussed alleviation of anger issues is @Fa Xin, and he was quite busy with studies and work last I read. If he's around and available he may chime in (he should be notified he's been tagged) - and you could peruse his ppd to see if there is anything you find pertinent there.

 

Best wishes..

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, funnerfun said:

 

Of course, I agree different cultures and people have different expectations and tolerance. 

 

I guess, though, I'm really looking for (in this particular post) what qigong practitioners have personally experienced in terms of temperament BEFORE starting qigong and AFTER having done qigong for some odd months/years.

 

Again, my interest is if someone had a lot of stress and possibly rage tendency prior to qigong, do people notice a distinct change after months of qigong practices? 

 

From what I've seen, no.  

 

Taiji does seem to do that though, in my experience, but only if practiced as a martial art.  It's very difficult to make someone angry who is trained to respond to an attack with relaxation.  And the moment anger kicks in, relaxation goes out the window and you lose.  So it becomes more and more one's second nature to scan first the partner, later every situation for ways to improve it by relaxing.  I believe just abstract "relaxation" is not efficient because it lacks human context -- and people who believe they are relaxed are often anything but, they have no frame of reference for what "relaxed" feels like and can't sustain the feeling because of that. 

 

Seriously, of all the various human types I've met, people who practice taiji as a fighting art seem to be the least prone to outbursts of anger (which of course can happen, they're still human) because countless times they have been in situations where getting angry equals getting tense, and getting tense equals offering your opponent a decisive advantage over you.  They may be egotistically relaxed and peaceful, for all I know...  but relaxed and peaceful is not an unusual state for many of the really good ones.      

 

 

[funnerfun]

8 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

The only individual I'm presently recalling who discussed alleviation of anger issues is @Fa Xin, and he was quite busy with studies and work last I read.

 

Thank you for the referral! I really appreciate it. Also, as this thread evolved I tried to broaden it from anger to stress/irritability. If qigong changed how you relate to others, please feel free to offer any experiences.

 

Cheers.

Edited October 7, 2019 by funnerfun

[rideforever]

On 05/10/2019 at 10:22 PM, funnerfun said:

* When I get defensive and react to something my partner has said or yell in traffic these are stimuli that aren't adequate or deserving of such an intense response. Often we fear something or react to something that isn't really there or isn't there to the degree we assume it is. So my objective is to lower my overall stress, and hopefully be more chill snd less likely to overeact. I could have easily titled this thread - How to reduce Over-reaction or reactivity.

 

Why do you get angry ?
What is the reason ?
What is the origin ?
What is happening in the situations where you get angry ?
What things in the past does it remind you of ?
Perhaps you need to answer some questions.
These things are not over-reaction in general, but your over-reaction for your reasons.
What are those reasons ?

[thelerner]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

Why do you get angry ?
What is the reason ?
What is the origin ?
What is happening in the situations where you get angry ?
What things in the past does it remind you of ?
Perhaps you need to answer some questions.
These things are not over-reaction in general, but your over-reaction for your reasons.
What are those reasons ?

 

for me,

its usually people asking too many questions. 

 

I'm usually ok with my anger

as long as I don't

overly react to it

linger in or feed it, too long.

Edited October 7, 2019 by thelerner

[moment]

On 10/3/2019 at 9:57 AM, Taomeow said:

 

My former "guru" made a distinction between emotions and feelings.  Feelings was the term he used to address systemic responses to actual experiences of the whole organism.  They were healthy if the experiences could be successfully and safely integrated into consciousness, and turned unhealthy if the experience was such that consciousness couldn't accept it -- in which case they were relegated to the unconscious.  Unconscious feelings are not irrational -- irrationality arises from that disconnect, from the gap between "what I know about me" and "what I don't know even though it's my actual experience, something that really happened to me." 

 

Irrational emotions arise from disconnected feelings.  Feelings run deeper and, even if they are disconnected from consciousness, they are always connected to our basic life functions, to our aliveness itself.  Healthy emotions reflect that.  Unhealthy emotions reflect frustrated foundational aliveness.  

Very true, the subconscious negativity needs to be made very much a part of one's awareness.  Progress is slowed way down without that.

Edited October 8, 2019 by moment

[moment]

On 10/6/2019 at 11:42 AM, Taomeow said:

 

From what I've seen, no.  

 

Taiji does seem to do that though, in my experience, but only if practiced as a martial art.  It's very difficult to make someone angry who is trained to respond to an attack with relaxation.  And the moment anger kicks in, relaxation goes out the window and you lose.  So it becomes more and more one's second nature to scan first the partner, later every situation for ways to improve it by relaxing.  I believe just abstract "relaxation" is not efficient because it lacks human context -- and people who believe they are relaxed are often anything but, they have no frame of reference for what "relaxed" feels like and can't sustain the feeling because of that. 

 

Seriously, of all the various human types I've met, people who practice taiji as a fighting art seem to be the least prone to outbursts of anger (which of course can happen, they're still human) because countless times they have been in situations where getting angry equals getting tense, and getting tense equals offering your opponent a decisive advantage over you.  They may be egotistically relaxed and peaceful, for all I know...  but relaxed and peaceful is not an unusual state for many of the really good ones.      

 

 

The great emperor ordered all of his wise men to find the one thing that makes you the best at whatever you do.  Twenty years later all of the wise men came together in agreement:  relax