The Torus and the YIN/YANG

[Yang]

The Horned Torus :

 

There are two versions of a Torus. The Horned and the Ring.  Im interested in knowing more about it.

 

Does anyone know the significance of the Horned Torus ?  Its not on wikipedia . Only its Negative version called the RING Torus or the doughnut Shaped Torus. 

 

Its pretty hard to find any information on it anywhere, other than the image below ..

 

Thanks for reading !!!!

 

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

How is this one different?

[Yang]

https://www.nosco.ch/mathematics/inc/img/torus0.jpg

 

The Ring Torus aka the Doughnut Torus has a different shape .

[Yang]

The Ring Torus

[EmeraldHead]

Right, pitbull vs husky.

 

You want mathematical info? I see the sections eventually reach all sides on the horned whereas in the ring they have a 2d path only. The horned is 3d essentially. A proper "torus" ?

 

Methaphysically since you correlated yinyang I gues you could say the horned one represents Taiji - the one. The unification of yin and yang. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by EmeraldHead

[Yang]

9 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

Right, pitbull vs husky.

 

You want mathematical info? I see the sections eventually reach all sides on the horned whereas in the ring they have a 2d path only. The horned is 3d essentially. A proper "torus" ?

 

Methaphysically since you correlated yinyang I gues you could say the horned one represents Taiji - the one. The unification of yin and yang. 

no need for math equations but great comment. What do you mean by  " the one " ?  Can you define it with some context?  There are many different meanings for the  phrase " the one "

I use Yin yang because there are only two kinds of  " torus'. One of them is Yang and other is yin. The horn torus is Yang, The number 1 is also YANG but it can be used as a negative too.

 

When I combine them both , they become 1 , or united as 1 .

 

Does the Taiji mean TORUS too , or just  "the one " ?

 

Thanks !

[Yang]

I just looked up the word. haha I call it the yin yang symbol. Sorry for the confusion. 

 

Absolutely yes . The horn torus is the same as the white and black symbol with the two small white and black circles. 

 

The upper vortex of the torus is the white circle and the lower vortex is the black circle. 

 

The   ( horn )Torus is the one in motion and im going refer to it as The Torus only . Its a 5 dimensional version of the taiji. Its has all the colors including CLEAR.

 

clear ( white ) blue green red yellow magenta cyan and black . 8 total . We cant see clear but we can see white so we use white for clear. 

 

 

[Nintendao]

In the animation, the top half can be thought of as emitting, and the lower half is absorbing. This lines up with them being respectively yang and yin, I'd say. Also a horn torus seems capable of enclosing every possible ring torus of equal radius.

 

A torus is primarily defined by two radii. The radius of the central ring, R, and the radius of each sectional circle, r. The horn torus is the case where R=r, thus bringing into existence a single point of self-intersection.

 

The intersection opens up a new dimension of curves, including the infinity symbol.

∞

 

Here's a neat video of the relationship to taijitu.

 

 

[Nintendao]

Not to be outdone, the ring torus, with its yin powers, appears to be able to give shape to the void, the so-called donut hole.

 

Now, the spindle torus, is this approaching what might be called a hyper-torus? To me it conveys a sense of subspace, a volume within a volume.

 

[Yang]

1 hour ago, Nintendao said:

Not to be outdone, the ring torus, with its yin powers, appears to be able to give shape to the void, the so-called donut hole.

 

Now, the spindle torus, is this approaching what might be called a hyper-torus? To me it conveys a sense of subspace, a volume within a volume.

 

 

I saw the  Torus Map Video 5 years ago . Thanks for sharing .  I didn't know there we three versions . Thanks !!

 

If someone wanted , they could make a trillion versions that are not  equal to    ( = R )   and every single one of them would be Negative versions of unity . 

The  =R  Torus is the positive and the    ( < r and  > r )   versions,  are its negatives. 

 

The = sign is unity and the other two above and below are its duality. 

Unity is always Positive and Duality is always NEG.  

There can only be 1 unified positive . Duality requires 2 or more. TRI-ality does not exist. Duality can reach and does reach infinity. Unity only = 1

 

 

How does the  H -Torus relate to our human form bodies ?  How is it similar ?  

How does it relate to the cosmos ? 

  

Thanks for the input . Much appreciated. 

[Yang]

how does the H- Torus relate to infinity and the 8 primary colors ?

[Yang]

Im including white and black as the 1st and 8th colors above .

 

white 

blue green red 

Black 

yellow magenta cyan 

[vonkrankenhaus]

The problem with animations like that is that it make the TaiJi seem symmetrical and reversible.

 

But the Ming dynasty TaiJiTu they use is actually a stylization of the trigrams for Fire and Water.

 

The "dots" show the inner lines of each of these trigrams.

 

If you look at older TaiJiTu, such as one by Zhou Dunyi - this is also using Fire and Water trigrams, just more explicitly.

 

But on Zhou's TaiJi diagram you can see "Yang is Movement" and "Yin is Stillness".

 

Which shows that all movement and growth is Yang.

 

So we can say there is fast and slow Movement, but we cannot say there is fast and slow Stillness.

 

This means TaiJi and YinYang are non-commutative and non-reflexive and non-reversible.

 

Modern New Age mistakes think YinYang is reversible and YinYang to be just inversions of each.

 

None of that is true or accurate, and makes understanding cultivation and medicine fairly impossible.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Yang]

37 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

The problem with animations like that is that it make the TaiJi seem symmetrical and reversible.

 

 

But the Ming dynasty TaiJiTu they use is actually a stylization of the trigrams for Fire and Water.

 

The "dots" show the inner lines of each of these trigrams.

 

If you look at older TaiJiTu, such as one by Zhou Dunyi - this is also using Fire and Water trigrams, just more explicitly.

 

But on Zhou's TaiJi diagram you can see "Yang is Movement" and "Yin is Stillness".

 

Which shows that all movement and growth is Yang.

 

So we can say there is fast and slow Movement, but we cannot say there is fast and slow Stillness.

 

This means TaiJi and YinYang are non-commutative and non-reflexive and non-reversible.

 

Modern New Age mistakes think YinYang is reversible and YinYang to be just inversions of each.

 

None of that is true or accurate, and makes understanding cultivation and medicine fairly impossible.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

you're right we can't *just* have symmetry in life , nor *just* asymmetrical . The computerised H- torus and the taiji are the Positive symmetric renditions. I totally agree. We can't have reality without its illusions either. 

 

The Fire and water , trigrams or the interpretation in the attached image is a perfect example of confusion. Not to say hes got it all wrong. It just doesn't make any sense. It's like putting up a very complex series of math equations and saying "see what I mean ? "

 

Most will say ah , no I don't, sorry . 

 

   Simplicity is the positive and complex is its negative. This may seem like a simple approach to understanding life as a whole but so far its been working perfectly for me . Unity and duality are the only tools I need to understand anything in life. 

 

Unity is absolute understanding and duality is misunderstanding. 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Yang
added image

[Yang]

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

The problem with animations like that is that it make the TaiJi seem symmetrical and reversible.

 

But the Ming dynasty TaiJiTu they use is actually a stylization of the trigrams for Fire and Water.

 

The "dots" show the inner lines of each of these trigrams.

 

If you look at older TaiJiTu, such as one by Zhou Dunyi - this is also using Fire and Water trigrams, just more explicitly.

 

But on Zhou's TaiJi diagram you can see "Yang is Movement" and "Yin is Stillness".

 

Which shows that all movement and growth is Yang.

 

So we can say there is fast and slow Movement, but we cannot say there is fast and slow Stillness.

 

This means TaiJi and YinYang are non-commutative and non-reflexive and non-reversible.

 

Modern New Age mistakes think YinYang is reversible and YinYang to be just inversions of each.

 

None of that is true or accurate, and makes understanding cultivation and medicine fairly impossible.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Yang moves and yin is stationary.  Very true. 

The full spectrum is WHITE = instant. Its as fast as fast gets. There isnt anything faster than instant and at its negative pole, its STOP. a dead stop. You can't get any slower than a dead stop. They are both absolute and at the far ends of the white to black spectrum of light.  

 

The positive between white and black is called TIME.  It goes by faster or slower but never stops and it's never instant. Instant and stop have no observable motions. Instant is too fast to observe and stop has no motion to observe. 

[vonkrankenhaus]

29 minutes ago, Yang said:

The positive between white and black is called TIME.

 

Chinese sense of time is not the same as Greek/Western linear sense of time.

Chinese time is more like simultaneous or "synchronous" time and not so much linear like "alphabet".

 

Time is handled in the TaiJiTu of Zhou Dunyi by showing Wu Xing.

 

Wu Xing is about order and time and is based on the appearances of the 5 major visible planets.

 

The YinYang of these is the Chinese 10 day week.

 

The actual thing happening between the poles of the polarities you can associate with the TaiJi is Movement.

 

Movement between the poles of a polarity is "Qi".

 

Movement is Yang. There are Yin and Yang movements - fast and slow, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Yang]

6 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Chinese sense of time is not the same as Greek/Western linear sense of time.

Chinese time is more like simultaneous or "synchronous" time and not so much linear like "alphabet".

 

Time is handled in the TaiJiTu of Zhou Dunyi by showing Wu Xing.

 

Wu Xing is about order and time and is based on the appearances of the 5 major visible planets.

 

The YinYang of these is the Chinese 10 day week.

 

The actual thing happening between the poles of the polarities you can associate with the TaiJi is Movement.

 

Movement between the poles of a polarity is "Qi".

 

Movement is Yang. There are Yin and Yang movements - fast and slow, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

space is the positive pole of time. Without space , the illusion of time will vanish and without the illusion of time there can be no space at all . They are inseparable . I don't use greek definition or linear definitions. I only use +/-

 

If you look at a space all at the SAME TIME. from one end of the space to the other end of the same space at exactly same time, The time illusion vanishes.  No time elapses.

 

If you look at the beginning of time in a space  and then move across to the end of time in the same space without looking at them both ,  The linier illusion of time can be seen.  But if you look at the beginning of time and all the space between it to the end at THE SAME time you won't see any time at all . 

 

I always look down ON time all at one  ( unity =1 ) which collapses the time illusion. 

 

Space and time is duality .

Space without time is unity 

There is only unity and duality in life 

 

Unity is the positive pole of duality , its negative pole. There isn't a 3rd pole. Its an illusion of you think you've found one

 

Space is objective 

Time is subjective

 

Objective is a positive and subjective is its negative pole. 

 

Its space + and TIME -

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

5 minutes ago, Yang said:

space is the positive pole of time. Without space , the illusion of time will vanish and without the illusion of time there can be no space at all . They are inseparable . I don't use greek definition or linear definitions. I only use +/-

 

If you look at a space all at the SAME TIME. from one end of the space to the other end of the same space at exactly same time, The time illusion vanishes.  No time elapses.

 

This is not the TaiJi understanding.

 

Space is not an action, so is not Yang.

 

The actions you describe, one is looking all at once from far, and one is looking little by little up close. Your comparison is not of the supposed polarity of Space and Time, but of 2 ways or perspectives of looking at things.

 

Comparing actual Space and Time, space is Yin. Space itself does not move. Something else must move to change spaces.

 

If time is not taken to be simultaneous and "all at once", and is taken to be a movement from one time to another, then time is Yang.

 

If one particular day Moon is full and in 14 days is not full, then time is Yang.

 

If Moon is full all always and never changing - then time does not exist in any interpretation.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Yang]

38 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

This is not the TaiJi understanding.

 

Space is not an action, so is not Yang.

 

The actions you describe, one is looking all at once from far, and one is looking little by little up close. Your comparison is not of the supposed polarity of Space and Time, but of 2 ways or perspectives of looking at things.

 

Comparing actual Space and Time, space is Yin. Space itself does not move. Something else must move to change spaces.

 

If time is not taken to be simultaneous and "all at once", and is taken to be a movement from one time to another, then time is Yang.

 

If one particular day Moon is full and in 14 days is not full, then time is Yang.

 

If Moon is full all always and never changing - then time does not exist in any interpretation.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

   I see space as Yang and time as Yin  so we are in complete disagreement on this subject . I respect your POV , I hope you respect mine as well .  Im still a student of the Taiji in this respect. No master .

 

   I need to ask you . Is there anything about the taiji teachings that you do not agree with or do you just accept  it as  "the way" no matter what ?

 

   Its ok by me , if you do or not, either way . I'm just curious. 

 

 

    If time is a positive attribute ,according to the taiji,  then where can I find a complete list of all +/- attributes according to the taiji?  

 

   If there is a complete list,  and if not , then how is anyone to know which is a POS or Neg attribute unless they use their own judgement. Without a full list , we are forced into using our own judgement to make the missing part of a complete list, full. 

 

   How can we be sure some of the list isn't incorrect or has been changed over time through translations of chinese to english  ? We can't . 

 

   Should we blindly assume  ANY SUBJECT is all correct no matter what the subject may be . Home loans,  personal health and mental well being subjects vary widely and whos to say what's correct or not. Including me . Thats why im here to learn .

 

   I've demonstrated my space and time explanations without any reference to any teachings from others. It's all my own interpretation . I don't say " it says so in a book I've read " I do read allot but I always use my own descriptions or at least as much as possible in the comments here. 

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

3 minutes ago, Yang said:

I need to ask you . Is there anything about the taiji teachings that you do not agree with or do you just accept  it as  "the way" no matter what ?

 

I see that "Space" is not a Movement.

 

I see that Movement is Yang and Stillness is Yin if we also say Life is Yang and Death is Yin.

 

No need to accept ANYTHING without understanding.

 

None of this is about accepting or believing in any thing whatsoever.

 

Real teachers will end that as soon as they see it.

To minimize translation errors, learn both Chinese and English yourself very well.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Yang]

52 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

I see that "Space" is not a Movement.

 

I see that Movement is Yang and Stillness is Yin if we also say Life is Yang and Death is Yin.

 

No need to accept ANYTHING without understanding.

 

None of this is about accepting or believing in any thing whatsoever.

 

Real teachers will end that as soon as they see it.

To minimize translation errors, learn both Chinese and English yourself very well.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

We can't see space or feel it and it can't be smelled or tasted or heard . It has no mass or density, no color .  Space *is* in motion but we can't see , feel taste smell or hear it move. 

 

Time is a generated illusion an all illusions are negative. 

 

Time as a whole doesn't exist. Space as a whole does.

 

Space is "clear" and it's one of the most positive and basic attributes I use. 

 

on the scale of white to black color spectrum,  pure space is completely clear and 100 % positive source energy  in motion in an outwards direction for every where. Time is the linear distance illusion between the start of the space and its end . If you look at the whole sace all at once , the illusion of time vanishes. 

 

If you take a white sheet of paper and put black dots all over the paper. The space is positive invisible energy and the dots are negative visible matter.

 

White is positive energy and black is negative matter. 

 

white is everywhere , and black is ANYWHERE.

Everywhere is positive and anywhere is its neg pole. 

 

Time is used to locate an anywhere in space. " it was 1945 when I was born " it was 10 pm when I went to sleep " I will see you at 6pm " ALL random and all negative , except for times HOST called space.

 

Energy is the positive pole of matter. You won't find one without the other .

 

Self and others are a pole too. 

 

Self aka the 1,  pretends to be in the company of others when in reality . SELF ( the 1 ) IS others too. Others, like time is an illusion in the eyes of "THE 1,"  The creator of everything and every one .

 

In order to play game and have fun ( war games included ) life must have an opponant. 

 

Try playing a game of chess alone on both sides. VERY DULL. So life made others and in doing so made DUALITY

 

There is only unity ( the 1 as self. ) and duality self and others. 

 

You and I are the same soul as the 1. Only our minds and bodies are different. 

 

Others is the negative half of + self and Neg others.  Self is the unified positve half.

 

Unity is positive and duality is its negative pole. 

[Yang]

yin and yang are perfectly symmetric and unified as a whole but in order to have symmetry , we must also have asymmetry.

 

 we see it in genders. Males are more able, so to speak,  than females in every possible way . NOT 50/50 or =

 

ist more like 60/40 or 55/45 

 

 Equal is a positive pole and unequal its neg pole. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Yang
edited the word able and is

[vonkrankenhaus]

4 hours ago, Yang said:

yin and yang are perfectly symmetric and unified as a whole

 

Not true.

 

Polarity is inherently asymmetrical and not symmetrical or unified.

 

A "unified" polarity is NOT a polarity. It's an "equality".

 

The right and left sides of your body are in a polarity, but are not symmetrical.

 

Fire and Water - used to symbolize YinYang, are not symmetrical opposites.

 

Light and Dark are not a symmetrical or reflexive or reversible polarity.

 

Dark is not the opposite of Light. Dark is the absence of Light.

 

Any One unitary thing exhibits polarity without being two or dual - Top/Bottom, Inside/Outside, etc.

 

Also looks like you believe western numbers. Numbers are abstract and do not show reality.

 

For example, let's say we have "1". How big is "1"? How long is "1"? Not finite. "Infinite".

 

So when we add 1 + 1 =? 

 

The answer must be "Infinity".

 

Numbers are commutative, so 2*3 = 3*2.

 

But real things and actions are not.

 

Part of development of Quantum Physics is realization that plain numbers given as position of particle are actually "actions" and not "numbers" and so are non-commutative.

 

Chinese YinYang is not commutative or symmetrical or reversible.

 

Because Yang is Movement and Yin is Stillness.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Yang]

8 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Not true.

 

Polarity is inherently asymmetrical and not symmetrical or unified.

 

A "unified" polarity is NOT a polarity. It's an "equality".

 

The right and left sides of your body are in a polarity, but are not symmetrical.

 

Fire and Water - used to symbolize YinYang, are not symmetrical opposites.

 

Light and Dark are not a symmetrical or reflexive or reversible polarity.

 

Dark is not the opposite of Light. Dark is the absence of Light.

 

Any One unitary thing exhibits polarity without being two or dual - Top/Bottom, Inside/Outside, etc.

 

Also looks like you believe western numbers. Numbers are abstract and do not show reality.

 

For example, let's say we have "1". How big is "1"? How long is "1"? Not finite. "Infinite".

 

So when we add 1 + 1 =? 

 

The answer must be "Infinity".

 

Numbers are commutative, so 2*3 = 3*2.

 

But real things and actions are not.

 

Part of development of Quantum Physics is realization that plain numbers given as position of particle are actually "actions" and not "numbers" and so are non-commutative.

 

Chinese YinYang is not commutative or symmetrical or reversible.

 

Because Yang is Movement and Yin is Stillness.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

The taiji as a UNIT ( as a whole ) is unified.  You misunderstood my comment 

 

Unification means 1 , unit means 1 and unity all mean 1 . Universe means 1

 

There is ONLY 1 and 2. POS and NEG 

1 is unity and 2 is duality . There is no 3 or higher number.

 

Infinity is positive and finite is its neg pole.

 

unity is a positive and duality is its negative pole. 

 

1x1=1 positive , yang 

1/1=1 Neg  yin.

 

Multiply is pos pole

Divide is its neg pole

 

YANG is motion and its instantly fast 100% at the absolute pole

YIN has no motion and is at a dead stop. 100% at the absolute opposite pole 

 

YIN COMES FROM YANG.

 

I don't use race like chinese or american  as ANY FACTORS like " chinese YY is this way but american YY is that way . 

 

Its universal . its in everything and everyone and applies to us all the exact same way no matter what race we are. The chinese race uses it allot but that doesnt mean its  "theirs" 

Its for everyone . 

 

I love it and I want to learn as much about it as I can . I'M STILL A STUDENT and I have much to learn and teach . My understanding is not complete or whole . 

 

HOW does yin come from yang  ? Can you tell me this  ?

Doe it apply to just some things or every thing  ?

[Yang]

Genders are asymmetrical with males + ( more than )  females  ( less than ) -

polarities are = and unified .

 

In order to have symmetry there must also be asymmetrical

 

The Tajik is both symmetrical and asymmetrical like the number 1

 

to say its ONLY asymmetrical is not truthful 

to say its both,  is truthful 

 

AS A WHOLE the taiji is unified as a single item and unity is a positive pole symmetrical

AS a  PART,   the taiji is polarized with 2 parts known as duality its Negative pole  asymmetrical. 

 

1x1=1 or  +    unity          symmetrical   = 1     

1/1=1  or  -   duality      asymmetrical   = 2