a very simple question. Everyone is welcome and encouraged.

[Yang]

 

 

 

 

  When a form of life dies, any and all forms of life ,  like a fish , human, dog or cat , Plant life, or even a microscopic bacterium.

 

The traditional understanding is that the soul leaves the body . 

 

  I'm a little untraditional in that I consider there to be a SINGLE soul ( sole) and that when we die, our soul doesn't leave our body,  but it's actually our body that leaves the soul. The ONLY soul in existence and the creator of everything and every one. 

 

What's your consideration on this subject  ?

 

 

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

There is still individuality in non-duality. Otherwise buddhism would actually preach nihilism as some folks on internet forums claim.

 

It is through these more internal layers that the yogi may be for example able to enter anothers body and even a dead body, get up and walk while doing his duties in his. 

 

I see it like this. Its not just consciousness as we know it. But SUPREME CONSCIOUSNESS. So it is able to fractally individualise while being consciousness....because consciousness isnt that or such and so but IS. . .

 

You go up the layers and eventually find what buddhists call mind-stream that reincarnates. So I see it as a unification of mechanical processes, a type of unified field that is more performant than simple nerves being used for data transfer to proess reality. But the mindstream field being a more efficient body that can process the endless data of endless lives and whatnot. Eventually you go up so much you leave anything that resembles a body. Into infinity and beyond. Just more and more speed  

 

We as humans made out of the source as everything is, love technology process and technology loves to progress. So it makes sense tech likes go fast and faster to be the fastest. 

 

It gets to layers where its so fast you can have the whole universe incorporated in one unit or one body/dharmakaya/atman/whatever.  So then how is it still communication? Well maybe it helps to think of it like children cant whistle so they need a crowd to sing and maybe some adults to listen to them as well as give feedback. An adult can whistle-sing any song Alone as well as enjoy them all ,from all mindstates  at the same time. He is still just one cultivator in his race.

Edited October 14, 2019 by EmeraldHead

[Yang]

5 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

There is still individuality in non-duality. Otherwise buddhism would actually preach nihilism as some folks on internet forums claim.

 

It is through these more internal layers that the yogi may be for example able to enter anothers body and even a dead body, get up and walk while doing his duties in his. 

 

I see it like this. Its not just consciousness as we know it. But SUPREME CONSCIOUSNESS. So it is able to fractally individualise while being consciousness....because consciousness isnt that or such and so but IS. . .

 

You go up the layers and eventually find what buddhists call mind-stream that reincarnates. So I see it as a unification of mechanical processes, a type of unified field that is more performant than simple nerves being used for data transfer to proess reality. But the mindstream field being a more efficient body that can process the endless data of endless lives and whatnot. Eventually you go up so much you leave anything that resembles a body. Into infinity and beyond. Just more and more speed  

 

We as humans made out of the source as everything is, love technology process and technology loves to progress. So it makes sense tech likes go fast and faster to be the fastest. 

 

It gets to layers where its so fast you can have the whole universe incorporated in one unit or one body/dharmakaya/atman/whatever.  So then how is it still communication? Well maybe it helps to think of it like children cant whistle so they need a crowd to sing and maybe some adults to listen to them as well as give feedback. An adult can whistle-sing any song Alone as well as enjoy them all ,from all mindstates  at the same time. He is still just one cultivator in his race.

ok so you are of the traditional " soul " leaves body after  death, rather than body leaves soul. . Thanks for your POV. I think most people have a similar POV that you have . 

[EmeraldHead]

1 hour ago, Yang said:

ok so you are of the traditional " soul " leaves body after  death, rather than body leaves soul. . Thanks for your POV. I think most people have a similar POV that you have . 

I don't think body has anywhere to leave to. It also cannot live on it's own, soo, is it really leaving?

[rideforever]

Where does my gas bill comes from then ???

Answer me that !!!

 

 

[Yang]

13 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Where does my gas bill comes from then ???

Answer me that !!!

 

 

the gas untility service?  you ok ?

[Yang]

2 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

I don't think body has anywhere to leave to. It also cannot live on it's own, soo, is it really leaving?

Yes. all BIO goes to geo. Life towards earth 6 feet under or to ashes .

When I say leave, I mean the body leaves the host soul. rather than the body's soul leaving its body . The traditional mindset. 

 

Some will say there is no soul or bio energy known as the soul.

 

Many say its the bio energy  we refer to as a soul that leaves the body at death.

 

My POV is that the BIO ENERGY of the soul is the same soul for everyone and that we simply unplug from this universal SOUL, the creator of everything, while it continues into infinity and from infinity . 

 

lets say a tree is the host soul for all of its leaves and each leaf is a person. When the leaf falls off , the tree lives on , new leaves are grown and drop over and over . The soul is the constant , its bodies are temporary.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Yang
spell corrections

[rideforever]

 

[thelerner]

I don't know.  I tend to lean towards it's nothing, or its complicated.

 

We can debate it.  Not much we can prove one way or another. 

I think at best- live now, live well, live ethically. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by thelerner

[TheCove]

On 14-10-2019 at 3:29 PM, rideforever said:

Where does my gas bill comes from then ???

Answer me that !!!

 

 

Gas....

 

Gas that comes from a stove is odorless in its natural state.  The gas company add a smelly chemical so that we may know when there is a leak. 

 

So let us say that the odorless gas, before it's adulteration by a smelly chemical is that great and grand All Soul of Everything.  You cannot smell it, you cannot know it.   All we know is what we can smell and what we CAN smell is that smelly chemical and nothing more. And what, by god, do you think that smelly chemical is?

[Michael Sternbach]

On 2019/10/14 at 4:19 AM, Yang said:

 

 

 

 

  When a form of life dies, any and all forms of life ,  like a fish , human, dog or cat , Plant life, or even a microscopic bacterium.

 

The traditional understanding is that the soul leaves the body . 

 

  I'm a little untraditional in that I consider there to be a SINGLE soul ( sole) and that when we die, our soul doesn't leave our body,  but it's actually our body that leaves the soul. The ONLY soul in existence and the creator of everything and every one. 

 

What's your consideration on this subject  ?

 

 

 

 

 

That's an interesting change of perspective. 

 

Reminiscent of the notion held by some Christians that it is never God who turns away from us, but it is us who may turn away from God. 

 

Gotta reflect on this some more, though... 

[doc benway]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:19 PM, Yang said:

 

When a form of life dies, any and all forms of life ,  like a fish , human, dog or cat , Plant life, or even a microscopic bacterium.

 

The traditional understanding is that the soul leaves the body . 

 

  I'm a little untraditional in that I consider there to be a SINGLE soul ( sole) and that when we die, our soul doesn't leave our body,  but it's actually our body that leaves the soul. The ONLY soul in existence and the creator of everything and every one. 

 

What's your consideration on this subject  ?

 

I guess I'm a little untraditional also in that I don't merely accept the concept or truth of a soul, whether individual or collective.

Not that I disbelieve necessarily, it's more that we have not defined the term sufficiently for me to accept and build on that definition.

The soul from the Judeo-Christian-Islamic perspective is far different than the formulation from the Bönpo perspective, for example.

This is a rather long exposition but very interesting and unique if one is interested in alternative ideas about 'soul'

 

 

 

Questions like the one in the OP are somewhat arbitrary, meaning that they are relational.

If I toss a ball in the air does the ball leave my hand or does my hand leave the ball?

It's all a matter of perspective, both are accurate and neither is more correct than the other.

 

I like to toy with conceptual questions like this sometimes, eg, does consciousness reside in the person or does the person reside in consciousness? 

Such intellectual exercises are fun, sometimes productive, sometimes not; at the end of the day there is only so much value for me regarding conceptual rumination. The mind will never run out of ideas, comparisons, judgements, decisions... 

 

[Yang]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:13 PM, thelerner said:

I don't know.  I tend to lean towards it's nothing, or its complicated.

 

We can debate it but I don't know how much we can prove one way or another. 

I think at best- live now, live well, live ethically. 

absolute simplicity will vanish into nothingness . Without complexity , simplicity will vanish instantly . Complexity is used to hold or slow simplicity in place to prevent it from vanishment into nothingness. 

 

Thanks for the comment. !!!  

 

In order to Live now we must live in the past to the same degree

In order to live well we must live unwell to the same degree

we must also balance ethics with being unethical in some way to the same degrees. 

 

We DON'T HAVE A CHOICE in the matter . Not on average.  Both must exist to the same degree on average. Like flipping a coin in the air . It will always land on both sides equally on average. Every Positive and negative pole abides to this law of average. 

 

day /night

east/west

up/down

air/land

hot /cold

male/female

bio/geo

truth/lie

reality /illusions

 etc etc etc etc. 

 

everything has a set of poles. Nothing can exist with this set of poles.

 

When you know all your poles like we know the alphabet, life will become incredible simple . Complexity will still exist but life will become incredibly simple to understand and extremely complicated to misunderstand. 

 

good luck 

donald duck . 

[thelerner]

Paradoxes are the nails Tao uses to build its house. 

[paul_willis]

On 14/10/2019 at 7:19 AM, Yang said:

 

 

 

 

  When a form of life dies, any and all forms of life ,  like a fish , human, dog or cat , Plant life, or even a microscopic bacterium.

 

The traditional understanding is that the soul leaves the body . 

 

  I'm a little untraditional in that I consider there to be a SINGLE soul ( sole) and that when we die, our soul doesn't leave our body,  but it's actually our body that leaves the soul. The ONLY soul in existence and the creator of everything and every one. 

 

What's your consideration on this subject  ?

 

 

 

 

I'm more on the side of soul leaving the body as the body is an individual with the soul. Without the soul the body is just biological matter that has ceased it's function.

[Nungali]

What an old bump   

 

I hope Yang got his answer ... eventually .

 

It appears, in the central tradition  ( the one behind  most western religions ) that we have both  'types of soul' .

 

Collective and individual  - sort of .

 

There is the 'Fravashi' , 'divine spark' , 'universal soul' , the cosmic 'animating force' ... or perhaps, even  'life' .  Some see this as like a little reflection in us of, for example, the Sun  - we are all reflecting the one 'light'

 

The individual soul ( 'Urvan' )  is the  a combination of ; a reflection of that light , the need and desire to fulfil this life's incantatory purpose ( ' Khvarana ' ) , and its store of thoughts words and deeds .  If these are bought into harmony and joined together  , a second or spiritual birth is achieved . If not , as said in the OP  , the body departs   from the 'central soul' and returns 'to dust' , along with those forces and complexes that are not united with 'that which is immortal ' .

[old3bob]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:19 PM, Yang said:

 

 

 

 

  When a form of life dies, any and all forms of life ,  like a fish , human, dog or cat , Plant life, or even a microscopic bacterium.

 

The traditional understanding is that the soul leaves the body . 

 

  I'm a little untraditional in that I consider there to be a SINGLE soul ( sole) and that when we die, our soul doesn't leave our body,  but it's actually our body that leaves the soul. The ONLY soul in existence and the creator of everything and every one.  

 

What's your consideration on this subject  ?

 

 

one could call or use the term Brahman per teachings of Hindusim for the idea of Single soul that you are using, in other words the eternal Soul (not limited by time space or form) of all souls;  with souls being made or woven in the image of Soul yet still evolving before returning to "Single" Soul.  

Edited July 22, 2022 by old3bob

[ChiQiGuy]

Jumping late I to this. I see all things that vibrate with energy to be alive and part of consciousness. There is no separation. It is only perception that changes. Like story telling. If you dive into any characters viewpoint and vibrate with them on their frequency then they become the protagonist of their story. Even if they are "wrong" in every choice or decision that they make which makes me see it as there is no wrong. Overall, it appears to me, that perception is the only uniqueness that exists. And when that perception completes its cycle it is the "death" we all lament. 

 

I did a lot of research years ago into life after death when I lost my childhood faith/religion. One thing seemed consistent across all of it. The "Me" that exists is solely there to expand experience. Even if something appears to have no uniqueness on the surface it's very existence is unique. All possibilities can exist and potentially do exist and that is the joy of it all. That seems to be why any of this exists. 

 

I could be wrong and am always excited to find out more. 

[stirling]

This is a unity. The idea of bodies, souls, and death are delusions.What "we" are is presence in consciousness that is omnipresent, always NOW. It is entirely possible to wake up to seeing this as it is. 

[Lairg]

15 minutes ago, stirling said:

The idea of bodies, souls, and death are delusions.

 

Years ago a co-worker told me about his daughter - who was born a couple of years after the death of her grandmother.

 

When the girl was about 2years old she was driven for the first time to her grandmother's house.  She seemed to recognise the streets as they got closer.  When they got to the house the girl immediately cried out:  What have they done to my curtains?

 

From how many layers of delusion was the girl suffering?

 

 

 

 

[stirling]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Years ago a co-worker told me about his daughter - who was born a couple of years after the death of her grandmother.

 

When the girl was about 2years old she was driven for the first time to her grandmother's house.  She seemed to recognise the streets as they got closer.  When they got to the house the girl immediately cried out:  What have they done to my curtains?

 

From how many layers of delusion was the girl suffering?

 

Only one. It's always the same one. It is the delusion of a belief in objects with intrinsic existence. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by stirling

[Indiken]

6 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Years ago a co-worker told me about his daughter - who was born a couple of years after the death of her grandmother.

 

When the girl was about 2years old she was driven for the first time to her grandmother's house.  She seemed to recognise the streets as they got closer.  When they got to the house the girl immediately cried out:  What have they done to my curtains?

 

From how many layers of delusion was the girl suffering?

 

I watched one documentary in Youtube about children who have strange past life memories, there was one instance which I liked particularly: a child said to her mother, that the child was mother of her current mother in some previous incarnation.

 

Like group of people incarnating together as a team. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Indiken

[Lairg]

In that case it seemed that the girl had inherited the emotional chakra intelligence of her grandmother.  Such inheritance makes the new human more acceptable to the host family.