silent thunder Posted October 23, 2019 and yet... underlying all of this fluid process of living... there seems a unifying principle aspect of all realities however they are experienced: awareness the very fabric of which are woven the body, the mind, the senses, feelings, thinkings, talking, sharing, writing and reading words, labeling, evaluating, comprehending, misunderstanding... underneath all of living... awareness 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lrn2livorlive2lrn Posted October 24, 2019 10 hours ago, Rara said: I don't dispute any of this. Never have, never will...you take my words so literally. Point being, we could be having a productive thread right now about using Daoism practically/pragmatically but instead, we waste our energy splitting hairs over the OP's tone that hit a few nerves. Can we talk about avocados again? Sorry, I was meaning generally cause I see it mentioned throughout this thread by different people. I’m not going to be much help in the on topic discussion but I am interested. I wish I had a cool avacado story..i think I’ve heard Derek lin talk about this kinda stuff on YouTube. I’m just a baby grasping Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lrn2livorlive2lrn Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) . Edited October 24, 2019 by lrn2livorlive2lrn Double Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted October 24, 2019 2 hours ago, lrn2livorlive2lrn said: Sorry, I was meaning generally cause I see it mentioned throughout this thread by different people. I’m not going to be much help in the on topic discussion but I am interested. I wish I had a cool avacado story..i think I’ve heard Derek lin talk about this kinda stuff on YouTube. I’m just a baby grasping Actually, I'm sorry too. My tone was off, and I shouldn't expect you (or anyone who isn't familiar with me here) to know what I was getting at. I'm trying to emphasise that I agree with a lot of the OP. I'm always quick to call out blatant woo-woo, but a big lesson in Daoism is that certain practices have great value. These are recognised by doctors, for example.... Empty the mind, fill the belly: Meditation technnique that can help one keep calm and feel inner strength, peace and clarity. Taiji practice. Focus, coordination and a healthy, functioning body. Avocados aside, I bet you could find a simple example. My go to is this: When you fry food and it sticks to the pan, you could put a lot of energy into scrubbing it. This costs time, and it is tiring. Or you could soak it overnight in soapy boiling water and let it do the work for you. When you come back in the morning, the task will be 10x easier and take a matter of seconds. "Do what is difficult when it is easy"- Laozi There is a massive chemical process here, which is all well and good. But the Daoist needn't delve into all that as a Daoist. If the Daoist chooses Chemistry as a walk of life, then that is Chemistry within the Dao. The practitioner could use Daoist practices to enhance learning of said chemistry in order to master it... ...that that would be chemistry. Daoism is still just Daoism 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lrn2livorlive2lrn Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) Honestly it’s pretty amazing that over 2000 years ago they weren’t just saying a bunch of culturally predjudiced shit and question things you wouldn’t think someone from that time would. I guess I’m just too focused on the overall outlook. I think most people do these kind of things in their life though. Experience and awareness lead understanding. Life is dynamic Pay attention. If I had a practical philosophy it would say something like this. You often prevent sticking by heating the pan to cooking temperature before adding oil before adding the food. .. It illustrates the dynamics. The pan,the heat, the oil, the food, the time and if it doesn’t work out the soaking in water amongst other things. Many things are like this,Nice Edited October 24, 2019 by lrn2livorlive2lrn 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Rara said: Actually, I'm sorry too. My tone was off, and I shouldn't expect you (or anyone who isn't familiar with me here) to know what I was getting at. I'm trying to emphasise that I agree with a lot of the OP. I'm always quick to call out blatant woo-woo, but a big lesson in Daoism is that certain practices have great value. These are recognised by doctors, for example.... Empty the mind, fill the belly: Meditation technnique that can help one keep calm and feel inner strength, peace and clarity. Taiji practice. Focus, coordination and a healthy, functioning body. Avocados aside, I bet you could find a simple example. My go to is this: When you fry food and it sticks to the pan, you could put a lot of energy into scrubbing it. This costs time, and it is tiring. Or you could soak it overnight in soapy boiling water and let it do the work for you. When you come back in the morning, the task will be 10x easier and take a matter of seconds. "Do what is difficult when it is easy"- Laozi Nice "go of it." In regard to "Do what is difficult when it is easy" and stuff stuck in frying pans, you can (generally) just add some water while the pan is in the stove too. There is some fancy dancy word for this as a cooking technique which I'm not remembering and doesn't matter anyway. Quote There is a massive chemical process here, which is all well and good. But the Daoist needn't delve into all that as a Daoist. If the Daoist chooses Chemistry as a walk of life, then that is Chemistry within the Dao. The practitioner could use Daoist practices to enhance learning of said chemistry in order to master it... ...that that would be chemistry. Daoism is still just Daoism Edited October 24, 2019 by ilumairen 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted October 24, 2019 The French call it the Fond. Adding water to the crunchy bits and mess in a pan and slowly simmering it into a sauce base. I believe it's deglazing in English. Whatever its name, I find it an invaluable resource of amazing flavor and people who pour or scrape that shit out and throw it away are quickly beaten with uncooked pasta and escorted out of my kitchen these daze. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted October 24, 2019 I imagine as i sit here sipping my coffee, in ancient daoist times, certain folks sitting about the chess cafe talking practical philosophy and looking down their nose at the common plebes, assuming them incapable of 'getting it', while being cat called in return by the local farmers and log splitters who walked by wondering what type of morons managed to stay alive, without a real job, spewing impractical words and concepts at each other endlessly over tea and gameboard pieces... Humans do as humans do. Some talk. Some act. Some do both. Some just doodoo. None of them are wrong in my opinion... just doing as they do... 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lrn2livorlive2lrn Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) So understand things then align them so they’re in the path of least resistance?.. practical daoist? i think I could say this but if I didn’t elaborate someone reading this who didn’t have the same understanding would miss out on what I intended. I could be grumpy and just say.. pay attention! This is probably a big source for a lot of variation in thinking. Simply expressed concepts that are not so simple in their ramifications. It is kinda entertaining that it’s a bit of a puzzle that keeps on giving. I guess it again up to you Edited October 24, 2019 by lrn2livorlive2lrn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lrn2livorlive2lrn Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, silent thunder said: I imagine as i sit here sipping my coffee, in ancient daoist times, certain folks sitting about the chess cafe talking practical philosophy and looking down their nose at the common plebes, assuming them incapable of 'getting it', while being cat called in return by the local farmers and log splitters who walked by wondering what type of morons managed to stay alive, without a real job, spewing impractical words and concepts at each other endlessly over tea and gameboard pieces... Humans do as humans do. Some talk. Some act. Some do both. Some just doodoo. None of them are wrong in my opinion... just doing as they do... And knowing this can free you from “yourself”, I think. Then you are getting out of your way Edited October 24, 2019 by lrn2livorlive2lrn 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted October 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, lrn2livorlive2lrn said: And knowing this can free you from “yourself”, I think. Then you are getting out of your way well said. Does a tree strain to force sap up its trunk? Do flowers unfold in great effort? I suspect they do not, but, as you say, by not getting in their own way, their nature unfolds of itself... wei wu wei... do without forcing. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted October 25, 2019 @lrn2livorlive2lrn @ilumairen Ok, I think you just exposed the fact that I do not have the Dao of Frying 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, lrn2livorlive2lrn said: So understand things then align them so they’re in the path of least resistance?.. practical daoist? I say actually, understand nothing. I sum up Daoism as a philosophy of no philosophy. Moreso the "undoing" of what has already been done. Relax...forget. The true essence of us lies underneath all the mess that's in our minds. Edited October 25, 2019 by Rara 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 26, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 10:41 AM, Cloudwalking Owl said: Howdy: I'm interested in whether any folks on this discussion board follow Daoism as a practical philosophy. I've seen a lot of conversation about energetics, Chinese medicine, Qi, and so on. I don't want to be provocative, but I've come to the conclusion that most of this stuff is nonsense. I stumbled across a video today that made me think of this thread. At the risk of perpetuating a deflection of the thread's intent, this is for anyone who doesn't understand the interest in and practice of energetics... Just contemplating this brief video for a few moments helps me to approach feeling and practicing with energetics in a deeper way. It helps to imagine the stillness of water before and after the manifestation of the wave. 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted October 26, 2019 On 10/24/2019 at 11:52 PM, Rara said: I say actually, understand nothing. I sum up Daoism as a philosophy of no philosophy. Moreso the "undoing" of what has already been done. Relax...forget. The true essence of us lies underneath all the mess that's in our minds. Such a nice post, Rara. That's how I see it too. I will be doing this on a new roomer that is coming into my home who brings a bit of chaos to the table. When we're not-doing on a situation, we seem to become a mirror for the actions of the other person, enabling them to see and reconsider their chaos. I go into this with eyes open. Not enabling him to stay sick is my intent, not-doing my weapon. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted October 26, 2019 wow @steve Your sharing triggers a memory. Late this morning... an extended dream, mildly lucid of being carried along reef lines by massive underwater waves and currents... lightly interactively tumbling along as carried effortlessly in the arms of deep ocean currents. vast, expansive, utterly sweeping and my awareness, my senses... like a leaf effortlessly rolling, tumbling along in bliss and joy at times swimming a bit to orient but mostly, just relishing the pure movement being carried by the Mother one effortless aspect of all that shifts and all of it, pure sweeping sensation without thought beingness thanks for sharing mate... deep gratitude. 1 hour ago, steve said: I stumbled across a video today that made me think of this thread. At the risk of perpetuating a deflection of the thread's intent, this is for anyone who doesn't understand the interest in and practice of energetics... Just contemplating this brief video for a few moments helps me to approach feeling and practicing with energetics in a deeper way. It helps to imagine the stillness of water before and after the manifestation of the wave. I often feel of folks who disregard energetic sensations and interactions, the way I do of folks who find relationships with animals irrelevant. I feel they are missing great dimensions of life. Then I remember that this is just my mind, making stories and I relax. The sense memory of this dream is utterly pervasive to mind and body. I'm sitting here in a near stupor of simple joy of raw beingness. such simplicity... life... beingness. 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 26, 2019 Beautifully evocative post ST, thank you for that. 45 minutes ago, silent thunder said: I often feel of folks who disregard energetic sensations and interactions, the way I do of folks who find relationships with animals irrelevant. I feel they are missing great dimensions of life. I would add trees, plants, bodies of water, mountains, planets, stars, and the elements to that short list... It definitely takes some time and inner work to begin to connect at more subtle levels with less familiar manifestations but, like you point out, there is such richness and unlimited potential in opening ourselves to other forms of life and the natural world. The more I connect with these things, the closer I feel I come to the fundamental essence of inter-being, as Thich Nhat Hanh likes to say, or to the essence of Dao, as might be more appropriate to this thread. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted October 26, 2019 38 minutes ago, steve said: Beautifully evocative post ST, thank you for that. I would add trees, plants, bodies of water, mountains, planets, stars, and the elements to that short list... It definitely takes some time and inner work to begin to connect at more subtle levels with less familiar manifestations but, like you point out, there is such richness and unlimited potential in opening ourselves to other forms of life and the natural world. The more I connect with these things, the closer I feel I come to the fundamental essence of inter-being, as Thich Nhat Hanh likes to say, or to the essence of Dao, as might be more appropriate to this thread. Absolutely. All of life is always speaking, all of the manifest and non-manifest. When the sleeper wakens, all of life becomes a teacher, a sharing, a reflection of self. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted October 26, 2019 2 hours ago, steve said: I would add trees, plants, bodies of water, mountains, planets, stars, and the elements to that short list... It definitely takes some time and inner work to begin to connect at more subtle levels with less familiar manifestations but, like you point out, there is such richness and unlimited potential in opening ourselves to other forms of life and the natural world. The practices of relating deeply to the natural world have always appealed to me. That´s an inspiring list! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lrn2livorlive2lrn Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) On 10/25/2019 at 2:52 AM, Rara said: I say actually, understand nothing. I sum up Daoism as a philosophy of no philosophy. Moreso the "undoing" of what has already been done. Relax...forget. The true essence of us lies underneath all the mess that's in our minds. So we can say kinda at odds with the “practical philosophy” mindset.. I get different ideas and feelings about this from different people and things I read, seems like some days people are more interested in entertaining the world that most of us have to live In and other times riding that detachment train. This why I say ultimately it would be clouds practical philosophy influence by daoism. You’re kind of saying that the the goal is not the unintentional outcome of things practically working out?. I think the old writings and New often promote both aspects. That deeper sentiment is there though Edited October 26, 2019 by lrn2livorlive2lrn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted October 26, 2019 2 hours ago, steve said: Beautifully evocative post ST, thank you for that. I would add trees, plants, bodies of water, mountains, planets, stars, and the elements to that short list... It definitely takes some time and inner work to begin to connect at more subtle levels with less familiar manifestations but, like you point out, there is such richness and unlimited potential in opening ourselves to other forms of life and the natural world. The more I connect with these things, the closer I feel I come to the fundamental essence of inter-being, as Thich Nhat Hanh likes to say, or to the essence of Dao, as might be more appropriate to this thread. All matter and non-matter as well. I've recently had a revelation that Matter Knows Its Shape. So wonderful, those moments where everything is embraced as one. With that in mind, everything we encounter becomes an object of our love. It makes a wonderful difference for things like cleaning the house or cutting the hedges. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky Lionmouth Posted October 26, 2019 2 hours ago, silent thunder said: Absolutely. All of life is always speaking, all of the manifest and non-manifest. When the sleeper wakens, all of life becomes a teacher, a sharing, a reflection of self. THIS. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 26, 2019 To me there is nothing more practical and nothing more Daoist than this. The conceptual mind loves to interject itself, and it's certainly a useful tool. Sometimes it's even supportive. Far more often an obstruction or distraction to this direct connection... for me, at least. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagebrush Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) yes exactly THIS. the image and view and video of that magnificent wave. lovely background music the perfect curl, crest and crash what is not seen in the picture is the antics of the midnight surfer scanning over your body and then act cool about it. yes I would like to have a temper tantrum but I wont. my spirit is much stronger than THAT. and you will never fully control or know mother nature. Edited October 27, 2019 by sagebrush 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
