Elitom (supposed breatharian) outed as Perv-predator -

[ilumairen]

21 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Or maybe... makes a bunch of stuff up! Hilarious.

 

To my understanding, the possible explanations I shared are much more probable than your chosen narrative. 

 

But it is true, we will never actually know because you didn't talk with or interact with the young women in any meaningful manner to ascertain just what it was they were actually experiencing from their own perspective, but continue to feel your voice can accurately speak for them. 

 

BTW If someone looks at you with tears in their eyes, it would be much more open and honest to simply ask what's wrong, and allow them to share what they're experiencing,  as opposed to assuming you've just given them an orgasm.

 

What an exceptionally odd conclusion..

 

Quote

Dude - I type some stuff on a forum. Sure I could add more information - LOTS more. But you have a bad habit of just making up a bunch of stuff. Or I guess you think that's a "good" habit? haha.

 

I'm not a "dude," I'm a woman, and I suspect you and I are somewhat anathema to each other. You've had years to share more, so forgive me for not believing my commentary has anything at all to do with what you've chosen to share, or the manner in which you've shared. 

 

Avert your eyes now... lest I somehow "steal" what you (claim you) are throwing around for the taking anyway, and don't forget to wash my whispered words from behind your ears, lest they actually impact your current thought process.  Silly boy. 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by ilumairen
typo

[Apech]

Many years ago when I was living in Manchester, England, I was practicing qi gong and taiji as well as Aikido three times a week.  I used to like to go to Chinatown and browse the Chinese stores that sold martial arts stuff etc.  One time I was looking at a display in a shop when I suddenly felt an incredible rush of warm (and very pleasant) energy.  I was surprised cos I wasn't doing any anything that might promote such a thing then I noticed a small Chinese guy, quite old, walk behind me wearing a forage cap.  I realised he was an accomplished master and just his proximity had lit me up.  Rather than rush up to him and ask for teachings I felt into the energy and sensed that he did not want to be approached so I felt I should respect that.  I never saw him again and have no idea who he was.

 

I don't think he was projecting anything at me - I think it was just his presence which sparked off the energy in me.  I don't think he wanted any interaction with me - it was just something that happened spontaneously.  So I think it is a truism that having reached a certain level of practice your energy is going to affect those around you.  And obviously you could use this effect in alchemical work - dual practice and so on.  I think all that is quite clear and 'legitimate' - whatever that means in this context.

 

Of course there's a very good reason why ethical development goes hand in hand with energy development - actually this is not a separate thing since your conduct/ethos has a direct impact on your subtle body - leading to wholeness and integrity - as do positive emotions like love and compassion.  But it is possible as many examples show (some of them posted on this thread) that you can kind of jump to the high energy stuff - if your being is already distorted by experience and ancestral karmic inheritance then you are  going to become more distorted.

 

I'm a bit puzzled as where the patriarchy comes into this - except to say maybe such things are part of our cultural karma.  I see this as being much more fundamental than just some social conditioning - but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

 

A.

 

 

[Nungali]

Oh, I see 'the patriarchy' all through it !  But what I mean by that is the  strange attitude towards women present in his posts.  These ideas, in my observed experience with others come about through social conditionings and are passed from older generations and peer pressure.

 

Its based on an idea of separation  and a 'wrong common denominator'  ie ; the first consideration should be that we are all people, next should be age and later if one is male or female . ( This is common  and as time has gone on we have struggled to break out of it ; 'all men are created equal' .... as long as you are white . All people should get to vote .... but not women of course . )

 

A lot of sexual, relationship and attitudinal problems I see here, I put down to those divisions in someone's upbringing , the lack of free sexual expression as it has been controlled and restricted by society ...  ( and that is for a reason! Its a tool of oppression ! ) and a lack of proper contact between the sexes.

 

At times of freedom  and liberation, sexual liberation flourishes, but doesnt last long, some dominating patriarchal figure will arise, take over and suppress it .   And that not only suppresses women's development , but men's too .

So I see most of it due to a lack of  interaction with women  ( that can also be on other levels, even if one does have a lot of physical interaction with them) .  In the extreme cases (like some war torn places in the 'middle east' , a war orphan boy may be bought up in an orphanage from a young age and only have men (and the Koran) as his instructors, all the way up to full adulthood, he may have no interaction with women whatsoever.  And when, as soldiers, they invade a village .....its horrific, especially for the women !

 

And that consciousness is spreading .

 

( There are some dedicated to fighting this;

 

 

... but they are all about to be wiped out in a genocide, while the 'civilised world' turns their back on them (after fighting ISIS for them ) .

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Nungali

[Apech]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

Oh, I see 'the patriarchy' all through it !  But what I mean by that is the  strange attitude towards women present in his posts.  These ideas, in my observed experience with others come about through social conditionings and are passed from older generations and peer pressure.

 

Its based on an idea of separation  and a 'wrong common denominator'  ie ; the first consideration should be that we are all people, next should be age and later if one is male or female . ( This is common  and as time has gone on we have struggled to break out of it ; 'all men are created equal' .... as long as you are white . All people should get to vote .... but not women of course . )

 

That's a nice hierarchy I guess - humanity, age then gender - but doesn't it ignore some very basic facts that most men are attracted sexually to women and visa versa.  It doesn't matter what the supposed 'should be' hierarchy is - what matters is how people actually behave and why - I would suggest.  There's something deeper going on among men who cannot relate to women beyond 'phew! she's hot' and so on.  And it's, IMO, a basic split in their anima/animus or perhaps Yinyang balance.  Maybe this gives rise to socio-political effects like patriarchy and so on - but a lot of bilge is spoken about that too.  

 

 

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

A lot of sexual, relationship and attitudinal problems I see here, I put down to those divisions in someone's upbringing , the lack of free sexual expression as it has been controlled and restricted by society ...  ( and that is for a reason! Its a tool of oppression ! ) and a lack of proper contact between the sexes.

 

What would free sexual expression look like to you.  If it's 'free' why doesn't it include 'O at a D' in McDonalds???

 

 

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

At times of freedom  and liberation, sexual liberation flourishes, but doesnt last long, some dominating patriarchal figure will arise, take over and suppress it .   And that not only suppresses women's development , but men's too .

So I see most of it due to a lack of  interaction with women  ( that can also be on other levels, even if one does have a lot of physical interaction with them) .  In the extreme cases (like some war torn places in the 'middle east' , a war orphan boy may be bought up in an orphanage from a young age and only have men (and the Koran) as his instructors, all the way up to full adulthood, he may have no interaction with women whatsoever.  And when, as soldiers, they invade a village .....its horrific, especially for the women !

 

And that consciousness is spreading .

 

( There are some dedicated to fighting this;

 

 

... but they are all about to be wiped out in a genocide, while the 'civilised world' turns their back on them (after fighting ISIS for them ) .

 

 

You're not really advocating a continued US military presence in Syria are you?  Do you favour imperial and colonial ambitions?  The US shouldn't be there in the first place.  When they do act they destabilise the whole region - Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria - a complete bloody mess with US bootprints all over it.  No more regime change wars - I say - bring the troops home and stop fighting other people's fights.  Sooner or later you've got to correct the balance or you end up like in Vietnam committing more and more in terms if money, lives and so on.

[freeform]

I think it’s important to differentiate this from ‘political’ or ‘sociological’ issues. The problem certainly exists in those settings.
 

However, from a spiritual practice context, the source of the problem isn’t (just) outside oneself. Meaning that the source of these malevolent forces is inherently within each of us - not just out there in society. And this is no different whether you’re a male or a female.

 

The seeds of these ‘evils’ lie in our base drives. They’re generally dormant, or remain as low level seedlings - as that slight envy of your work colleague, or as that burst of anger when you don’t get your way, or as that tendency to numb yourself with pleasure...

 

But water these seeds - whether with power from internal practice or with power afforded to us through life in society, and these seeds can grow into big evil trees (this metaphor is getting a bit ridiculous, I know!) - and this happens without us noticing it.

 

The reason I know a bit about Qigong deviations is because one of my teachers used to treat them - often particularly serious cases. And although there were many men that had issues - it was certainly not exclusive to men!

 

Yes sexual exploitation was rare among the women brought in for treatment, but there was a hell of a lot of cruelty, control, manipulation, financial slavery (even straight-up slavery) etc. And very much  amongst women too.
 

The seed for these issues is within all of us.
 

And they’re particularly dangerous in those of us that think we’re completely free from them.

[freeform]

17 hours ago, Apech said:

Of course there's a very good reason why ethical development goes hand in hand with energy development - actually this is not a separate thing since your conduct/ethos has a direct impact on your subtle body - leading to wholeness and integrity - as do positive emotions like love and compassion. 

I very much agree with the first part of your statement. But experience (my own and those of my teachers) has taught me that the second part (ethical conduct being tied to energetic development) is definitely not the case!

 

I think it’s important to be aware of this. Skill with Qi - even high-level skill that appears to be miraculous - is very ‘mechanistic’. This means that anyone - even a sociopath can build a lot of power through internal practice.

 

When it comes to spiritual practice (which is different from energy cultivation - Xing - Ming) appears to be different. There appears to be a certain cause and effect relationship between spiritual progress and ethical conduct.
 

But according to some, even this can be side-stepped with certain practices... 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

I very much agree with the first part of your statement. But experience (my own and those of my teachers) has taught me that the second part (ethical conduct being tied to energetic development) is definitely not the case!

 

I think it’s important to be aware of this. Skill with Qi - even high-level skill that appears to be miraculous - is very ‘mechanistic’. This means that anyone - even a sociopath can build a lot of power through internal practice.

 

When it comes to spiritual practice (which is different from energy cultivation - Xing - Ming) appears to be different. There appears to be a certain cause and effect relationship between spiritual progress and ethical conduct.
 

But according to some, even this can be side-stepped with certain practices... 

 

Sure, in fact I made this point in a previous post.  I wasn't saying ethics are necessary to qi development but that your conduct has an influence on how that qi develops.

[liminal_luke]

21 hours ago, Apech said:

Many years ago when I was living in Manchester, England, I was practicing qi gong and taiji as well as Aikido three times a week.  I used to like to go to Chinatown and browse the Chinese stores that sold martial arts stuff etc.  One time I was looking at a display in a shop when I suddenly felt an incredible rush of warm (and very pleasant) energy.  I was surprised cos I wasn't doing any anything that might promote such a thing then I noticed a small Chinese guy, quite old, walk behind me wearing a forage cap.  I realised he was an accomplished master and just his proximity had lit me up.  Rather than rush up to him and ask for teachings I felt into the energy and sensed that he did not want to be approached so I felt I should respect that.  I never saw him again and have no idea who he was.

 

 

Wonderful story.  Don´t ya just love it when that happens?  A few years ago I was looking at books at an esoteric bookstore, Open Secret in San Rafael, California, when I suddenly felt this amazing sense of openness and relaxation in my chest.  I´d never felt anything like it before or since.  Later I discovered a group was meditating in the backroom.  

[doc benway]

I find it interesting that when we experience these positive experiences there is a tendency to look for an outside source or reason.

We rarely consider the possibility that it is purely happening in us, our own connection to the source.

I'm not denying anyone's experience or explanation, just noticing that we do this.

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, steve said:

I find it interesting that when we experience these positive experiences there is a tendency to look for an outside source or reason.

We rarely consider the possibility that it is purely happening in us, our own connection to the source.

I'm not denying anyone's experience or explanation, just noticing that we do this.

 

Good point.  Now that you mention it, I´m sure I had something to do with my experience.  My mom was with me on that shopping expedition and didn´t report any amazing heart openings.  It´s possible that I´m selling myself short, I guess, but I can´t help but give the meditators in the other room some credit too.  Maybe it was a case of serendipitious harmony between internal and external vibes? 

 

PS.  If I was in a more @silent thunder kind of mindspace, I might point out how blurry the distinction is between inner and outer.  I´d wax eloquent about the beautiful ambiguity of our alledged boundaries.  I´d point out how the elements of the air contiually whoosh in and out of our bodies, how our digestive system is basically just a big transit tube for In and Out Burgers and other foodstuffs , how we are hosts to untold millions of microscopic creatures.  One person in a bad mood can bring a whole room down; one person in a good mood can lift that same room up. Science is just now uncovering the astounding ways we connect with each other on a brain level (interpersonal neurobiology).  In what sense am I the source of my experiences?  Not the source of my experience?  The answer is deliciously murky.   

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

3 hours ago, steve said:

I find it interesting that when we experience these positive experiences there is a tendency to look for an outside source or reason.

We rarely consider the possibility that it is purely happening in us, our own connection to the source.

I'm not denying anyone's experience or explanation, just noticing that we do this.

 

 

Oh Steve, Steve, you old skeptic you

 

What you say is right, I think in one way - but I'm as sure as I can be that my experience was linked to that old guy and I think you have to trust your intuition on these things.

 

 

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

The answer is deliciously murky.   

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

I think you have to trust your intuition on these things.

 

[ilumairen]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

 

Oh Steve, Steve, you old skeptic you

 

What you say is right, I think in one way - but I'm as sure as I can be that my experience was linked to that old guy and I think you have to trust your intuition on these things.

 

 

 

At least your intuition relates to empowering others. 

 

Personally, I really like the "leave it be" option.. yes, something was felt, now leave it be.. ("and return" was the rest of the instruction).

 

[Geof Nanto]

Refining my perception of the field of psychic energy that we're all immersed in is at the heart of my practice. That’s where 'God' can be felt as living energy. For me, refinement is an ongoing decades long process of gross to more subtle because I need to work through my own psychic distortions; my own wants and desires. Sexual yes, but for me personally emotional more so.  Hence I do not judge others who are on their own path that involves trial and error. A degree of madness is par for the course for those of us who seek a way that's individually appropriate. The crossing ethical boundaries is bound to occur in the process of finding one's own inner ethical standards rather than relying on external teachings. Real spiritual practice involves real danger both to oneself and to those people connected to us. From my perspective, there's no sure path except the path to stagnation and inner death.  

 

Of course our ego shields get in the way of admitting error, as my own experience proves. I need look no further than discussions on this forum to see how resilient those ego shields are. And for good reason. Once the ego shield fractures emotional and spiritual devastation follows. And that has to be worked through. For me, I've only been able to work through it with the help of other people and wise teachings. But in retrospect they're the most important experiences I've had.

 

"A teacher can teach you many things, but only life can teach you devastation".  

 

 

[liminal_luke]

38 minutes ago, Yueya said:

Refining my perception of the field of psychic energy that we're all immersed in is at the heart of my practice. That’s where 'God' can be felt as living energy. For me, refinement is an ongoing decades long process of gross to more subtle because I need to work through my own psychic distortions; my own wants and desires. Sexual yes, but for me personally emotional more so.  Hence I do not judge others who are on their own path that involves trial and error. A degree of madness is par for the course for those of us who seek a way that's individually appropriate. The crossing ethical boundaries is bound to occur in the process of finding one's own inner ethical standards rather than relying on external teachings. Real spiritual practice involves real danger both to oneself and to those people connected to us. From my perspective, there's no sure path except the path to stagnation and inner death.  

 

 

A thoughtful post, as  always, Yueya.  Demonizing other people can be a way of distancing ourselves from our own shadows, as if to say that person over there did this horrible thing that I would never do.  The truth, as Freeform has pointed out, is that all of us have base desires that can be amplified through spiritual practice.  So I`m all on board with the not judging.

 

At the same time, I`m in favor of ethical discernment.  I want to know when there`s been a breach of good behavior, whether that behavior is my own or that of another.  It`s good to speak up and say -- hey, that`s not right. Is it possible to be nonjudgmental while also holding each other accountable to uphold certain standards?  I think so, difficult but possible.  That`s the tightrope we face.

Edited October 26, 2019 by liminal_luke

[ilumairen]

I danced with madness, and then came a day I realized it wasn't about "them"; it was about me, and recognizing the things I had buried from myself...

 

Thank you for the thoughtful post @Yueya

[Geof Nanto]

Thank you, Liminal. You write some very insightful comments too. In fact, it was this one of yours as well as Apech’s on his experience in the Manchester bookshop that inspired me to contribute to this discussion. I was going to quote and expand on your excellent second paragraph of that post at the beginning of my previous comment but Steve summed it all up far more elegantly with the response he posted whilst I was writing mine. 

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Demonizing other people can be a way of distancing ourselves from our own shadows, as if to say that person over there did this horrible thing that I would never do.  The truth, as Freeform has pointed out, is that all of us have base desires that can be amplified through spiritual practice.  So I`m all on board with the not judging.

 

At the same time, I`m in favor of ethical discernment.  I want to know when there`s been a breach of good behavior, whether that behavior is my own or that of another.  It`s good to speak up and say -- hey, that`s not right. Is it possible to be nonjudgmental while also holding each other accountable to uphold certain standards?  I think so, difficult but possible.  That`s the tightrope we face.

Yeah, ethical discernment is vital. And those standards you refer to are helpful guides, for sure. But those are the external methods, and whilst they may be generally applicable, that’s not always the case. Every case is different and, as well as the important provisos you mention, condemning people can be a way of controlling something we fear because it’s outside of our own moral conditioning and personal experience. Also these strong, intimate psychic connections are vital in that they can open the channels through which the most powerful teachings flow. Such real life encounters, when coupled with practice forms such as qigong and meditation, have helped me enormously.  

 

For me, the inner path is a way to slowly learn to directly feel the harmonies and disharmonies in our subtle patterns of interconnection.  When these psychic energies are awry, it feels bad. It feels injurious to my own subtle body as well as other people’s.  Good ethical principles have evolved to reflect this, but like I’ve said, they can only ever be generalities. But of course the trial and error process of direct learning also means many mistakes will be made. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Yueya

[Geof Nanto]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

I danced with madness, and then came a day I realized it wasn't about "them"; it was about me, and recognizing the things I had buried from myself...

 

Thank you for the thoughtful post @Yueya

 

And I like reading your posts too on topics I follow. I haven't been adding "Likes" and "Thank Yous" because I've been generally happy to stay as an anonymous reader over the last few months.  But I browse this forum daily and it gives me great insight into our human psychology, and hence into my own psychology. 

 

Realising my own madness and acknowledging my own mistakes to the extent I have, has given me some compassion and humility that as a young spiritual hero I sadly lacked. 

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Apech said:

 

That's a nice hierarchy I guess - humanity, age then gender - but doesn't it ignore some very basic facts that most men are attracted sexually to women and visa versa.  It doesn't matter what the supposed 'should be' hierarchy is - what matters is how people actually behave and why - I would suggest. 

 

Probably, but personally, for me, my 'self imposed hierarchy' regulates my behaviour .  I am certainly  attracted towards women though, including, at times sexually,  but thats just 'part of the equation' .

 

I guess I should except that most people will just follow the 'urge at hand' and not even consider 'regulation' and appropriate action .

 

I mean, even if 'appropriate action is geared towards 'getting what you want', a lot of people cant seem to manage it .

 

I guess a lot of people are just dumb arses .

 

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

There's something deeper going on among men who cannot relate to women beyond 'phew! she's hot' and so on.  And it's, IMO, a basic split in their anima/animus or perhaps Yinyang balance. 

 

yeah, like I said , they where isolated from female influence , one way or another, during development  (which might take longer than just passing into adulthood) . That will mess up your yin yang anima animus balance .

 

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Maybe this gives rise to socio-political effects like patriarchy and so on - but a lot of bilge is spoken about that too.  

 

Well, I gave an extreme example  of that when I described the war orphans being bought up by men and then being turned into soldiers with a hate / fear / scorn for women  within their own socio political context   (except those angel women you get when you go to paradise  -  thats different   )

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

 

What would free sexual expression look like to you. 

 

Consensual ,  for a start !   

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's 'free' why doesn't it include 'O at a D' in McDonalds???

 

 

It might .... if it was consensual .

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

 

You're not really advocating a continued US military presence in Syria are you?

 

Nope .  I do find it hard to condone an action that allows a genocide  and a mass slaughter of women soldiers ,  villagers, women  children  though  .

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

  Do you favour imperial and colonial ambitions? 

 

Nope  !

 

19 hours ago, Apech said:

The US shouldn't be there in the first place.  When they do act they destabilise the whole region - Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria - a complete bloody mess with US bootprints all over it.  No more regime change wars - I say - bring the troops home and stop fighting other people's fights.  Sooner or later you've got to correct the balance or you end up like in Vietnam committing more and more in terms if money, lives and so on.

 

 

Er .... well okay . My comments there where not meant to be about that .... its just that I have been watching the Kurds get trashed, traitored and genocided for decades , and through out history, and I saw this coming years back at the beginning of all this present 'scurrying' ....   and it demonstrated some of my points .

 

Just about everyone was willing and happy for those Kurdish women's units to send IS running ....   but now when they should get what they where supposed to get back ..... future news horrors will show the outcome .

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, freeform said:

I very much agree with the first part of your statement. But experience (my own and those of my teachers) has taught me that the second part (ethical conduct being tied to energetic development) is definitely not the case!

 I

I think it’s important to be aware of this. Skill with Qi - even high-level skill that appears to be miraculous - is very ‘mechanistic’. This means that anyone - even a sociopath can build a lot of power through internal practice.

 

When it comes to spiritual practice (which is different from energy cultivation - Xing - Ming) appears to be different. There appears to be a certain cause and effect relationship between spiritual progress and ethical conduct.
 

But according to some, even this can be side-stepped with certain practices... 

 

Some of the western systems I was involved in had a system of ethics running alongside and interwoven through the stages of teachings . To pass a grade meant to have skill, but also to have incorporated those ethics .

 

Freemasonry is an obvious example , originally wholly based on a system of  ethics and morality .

 

When I was younger  I was involved with Wiccan . I never noticed a strong moral or ethical  system within its teachings, some simple very basic stuff , some stuff added later  ( which was ripped off the systems I described above anyway ) ...... Hooo Boy !  The stuff that used to go on in there !   

[Apech]

8 hours ago, Yueya said:

Refining my perception of the field of psychic energy that we're all immersed in is at the heart of my practice. That’s where 'God' can be felt as living energy. For me, refinement is an ongoing decades long process of gross to more subtle because I need to work through my own psychic distortions; my own wants and desires. Sexual yes, but for me personally emotional more so.  Hence I do not judge others who are on their own path that involves trial and error. A degree of madness is par for the course for those of us who seek a way that's individually appropriate. The crossing ethical boundaries is bound to occur in the process of finding one's own inner ethical standards rather than relying on external teachings. Real spiritual practice involves real danger both to oneself and to those people connected to us. From my perspective, there's no sure path except the path to stagnation and inner death.  

 

Of course our ego shields get in the way of admitting error, as my own experience proves. I need look no further than discussions on this forum to see how resilient those ego shields are. And for good reason. Once the ego shield fractures emotional and spiritual devastation follows. And that has to be worked through. For me, I've only been able to work through it with the help of other people and wise teachings. But in retrospect they're the most important experiences I've had.

 

"A teacher can teach you many things, but only life can teach you devastation".  

 

 

 

 

A thousand likes for this.

[Apech]

7 hours ago, ilumairen said:

I danced with madness, and then came a day I realized it wasn't about "them"; it was about me, and recognizing the things I had buried from myself...

 

Thank you for the thoughtful post @Yueya

 

I wrestled with insanity for many years, then luckily one day, insanity won. 

[Apech]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Probably, but personally, for me, my 'self imposed hierarchy' regulates my behaviour .  I am certainly  attracted towards women though, including, at times sexually,  but thats just 'part of the equation' .

 

I guess I should except that most people will just follow the 'urge at hand' and not even consider 'regulation' and appropriate action .

 

I mean, even if 'appropriate action is geared towards 'getting what you want', a lot of people cant seem to manage it .

 

I guess a lot of people are just dumb arses .

 

yeah, like I said , they where isolated from female influence , one way or another, during development  (which might take longer than just passing into adulthood) . That will mess up your yin yang anima animus balance .

 

Well, I gave an extreme example  of that when I described the war orphans being bought up by men and then being turned into soldiers with a hate / fear / scorn for women  within their own socio political context   (except those angel women you get when you go to paradise  -  thats different   )

 

 

Consensual ,  for a start !   

 

 

It might .... if it was consensual .

 

...

 

 

Thanks.

 

I'm wondering about if it is just spontaneous rather than consensual.  What are the ethics then?  I guess its got to be about how you respond once you realise its happening.  There's a fine line, perhaps between being very aware of interactions in the field and being creepy.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

PS.  I agree about the Kurds but I don't see any other way out

 

[voidisyinyang]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Thanks.

 

I'm wondering about if it is just spontaneous rather than consensual.  What are the ethics then?  I guess its got to be about how you respond once you realise its happening.  There's a fine line, perhaps between being very aware of interactions in the field and being creepy.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

PS.  I agree about the Kurds but I don't see any other way out

 

Quote

Freemasonry is an obvious example , originally wholly based on a system of  ethics and morality .

Wow - I hope you don't fall for this B.S.!

Freemasonry is INHERENTLY EVIL as based on the lie of "materialistic idealism" from the root lie that Geometry is God as the Golden Ratio (from Platonic philosophy).

The Brotherhood The Secret World of the Freemasons. Stephen Knight is a good book on this.

So you can believe all the "ethics" about Freemasonry being a "positive charitable" organization if you IGNORE that Freemasonry is the "thrust" of 500 years of genocidal, ecocidal Western "culture" spreading around the world.

The Religion of Technology - Google Books

 

https://books.google.com › History › General

Noble traces the history of these ideas by examining the imaginings of monks, explorers, magi, scientists, Freemasons, and engineers, from Sir Isaac Newton to Joseph Priestley to Wernher von Braun. Noble suggests that the relationship between religion and technology has ...

 

This 1996 academic book is another great expose on the Freemasons as simply symptomatic of Platonic "materialistic idealism" philosophy as the SEPARATION of Heaven and EArth. It's the OPPOSITE of real Daoist neidan alchemy training.

 

Professor David F. Noble was an M.I.T. history professor - so he knows his stuff.

 

[voidisyinyang]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Thanks.

 

I'm wondering about if it is just spontaneous rather than consensual. 

 

here you go - this explains how the O at a D "works" - enjoy!

And yes I have corresponded with Professor Stuart Hameroff.