Why I Seek Power

[MASTERforge]

Your chasing your own tail

 

Your close, nearly there, almost.

 

You need to work harder, harder more, still more harder. Chase it. There it is, oh now its gone! Its back, oh there is goes again.

 

15, 20, no 30 years just sitting and meditating. No standing, can't get it when your standing

Chase it up a mountain and become a recluse, is it there? No its gone again!

 

Go to a monastery and seek the answers of a master. Does he have it? If he does he's not telling!

 

Find yourself in India

seek the dao in china

look for satori in Japan

 

Read the books, get the dvd's do they give it to you? No? Then where is it?

 

Who and what is it exactly that you are trying to escape?

What exactly are you trying to escape from?

Where do you think you would go to?

Why would it be any different from where you are now?

 

How far or how hard do you have to work to get it?

 

How much will you punish yourself before you become exhausted and give up?

 

The book of the 'ten bulls' is close but not quite. It just stinks of Zen

[satyagraha]

I was in the same paradigm as you, searching for something that was already there (I still am but my views on this have shifted to a level of peace in either outcome). A friend told me a proverb that went like this...

 

there is a story about an enlightened peasant in india. someone asked her what she was "doing" now that she was self-realized. she said that before she woke up every morning and carried pales of water to and from the river. now, she still wakes up every morning and carries pales of water to and from the river.

 

It seems like you posted this to convince us of your point...why would you do this? because you aren't fully convinced of it yourself. I think you know fundamentally that your current views on finding enlightenment are only deepening yourself in Samsara. I think you posted this so that we could make the argument you want to make for yourself, for you, and so that you would come to terms with the idea that you need to make peace with the illusion, in order to escape it. just an idea, if that made any sense at all...

[mwight]

I was in the same paradigm as you, searching for something that was already there (I still am but my views on this have shifted to a level of peace in either outcome). A friend told me a proverb that went like this...

 

there is a story about an enlightened peasant in india. someone asked her what she was "doing" now that she was self-realized. she said that before she woke up every morning and carried pales of water to and from the river. now, she still wakes up every morning and carries pales of water to and from the river.

 

It seems like you posted this to convince us of your point...why would you do this? because you aren't fully convinced of it yourself. I think you know fundamentally that your current views on finding enlightenment are only deepening yourself in Samsara. I think you posted this so that we could make the argument you want to make for yourself, for you, and so that you would come to terms with the idea that you need to make peace with the illusion, in order to escape it. just an idea, if that made any sense at all...

 

How many truly enlightened people exist in the world today? If the stories are true Wang Li Ping, and a handful of others. Maybe 60 to 100 people out of 6.6 Billion, those are really bad odds. Even the Dali Lama admits he is not enlightened. Something isn't working, surely there should be more enlightened and ascended beings in our ranks if our current teachings were sufficient.

 

I am doing my absolute best to research the most advanced and esoteric systems passed down by masters who have real power, and figure out what they have in common, what works and what doesn't. This seems to be a logical approach. So far I have found 3 masters with actual demonstrable power and all of them claim it is something which anyone can develop, but I digress.

 

 

I am aware I might be wrong, but this is the conclusion I have drawn logically from all my research. I think above all else Buddha stressed logical and rational thinking in his teachings. i.e. if it doesn't agree with your reason don't believe it, no matter even if I said it. I am paraphrasing but you get the point.

 

Accepting a person can be truly enlightened without some deeper understanding and control of the dream, is one such thing that disagrees with my reason.

 

If a person came to me claiming they were enlightened, I would require proof to validate such a claim. I don't care how peaceful and blissed out they were. I don't care if they achieved true non-dual awareness. I don't care if they spoke like a pansy and threw flowers at me. That is just common sense to me. I don't think it is rational to accept such an assertion without some proof.

 

My view of enlightenment, and ascension, are not in keeping with the "chop wood, carry water" analogy. Perhaps what I am looking for will only be realized by technological advancement and not through spiritual searching. A person carrying water and chopping wood and claiming to be enlightened, is in my opinion either in a state of true non-dual awareness, or delusion, and neither of those things really constitute what I think of as enlightenment.

If a person were fully enlightened, they would be awake, aware of the dream and eventually able to control it in ways which would manifest beyond most peoples comprehension. If the stories about wang li ping are true this is what I assume a modern day Buddha would be like.

 

Perhaps what I am seeking isn't really enlightenment at all. Perhaps its scientific apotheosis: a correct, complete, and total understanding of reality, the universe and all its functions, is more what I am searching for. Einstein said he wanted to know God's thoughts. I totally relate to his quest, and that is more in line with my idea of enlightenment.

 

But then again enlightenment is only secondary to my goal of never being reborn. If this means existing as a spirit eternally, thats fine. If it means a state of total non existence that is fine also. Right now that is my main goal, everything else is just icing.

 

All that has been stated here is merely my opinion, and I am certain it can be wrong. I have been wrong about a lot of things in my life.

 

I seek power to awaken, and transcend this reality. I seek power to help heal and teach others, and make the world a better place. I view these things as morally correct uses of power.

 

I am not trying to tell you you are wrong if you disagree with me. As to why I posted this in the first place, I don't really know. Sometimes I like just speaking my mind, and seeing what others think. Is that a bad thing? I don't feel I really need to convince you, if you disagree with me thats your prerogative. I'm not here to sell you on my view of things, I am just throwing it out there.

Edited March 3, 2008 by mwight

[mwight]

If you want a very detailed piece of analysis from someone who has experienced both insanity and enlightenment, do check out this thread and follow the link to the blook.

 

Thing is, and this is just my opinion, you can never ever be absolutely sure you're not insane. But you can establish whether you're at peace or not.

 

 

Ian,

 

Thank you for your wonderful commendation. I will be sure to read it soon. Thank you.

if you have any more reccomendation similar to this one please send them my way.

Edited March 3, 2008 by mwight

[satyagraha]

How many truly enlightened people exist in the world today? If the stories are true Wang Li Ping, and a handful of others. Maybe 60 to 100 people out of 6.6 Billion, those are really bad odds. Even the Dali Lama admits he is not enlightened. Something isn't working, surely there should be more enlightened and ascended beings in our ranks if our current teachings were sufficient.

 

I am doing my absolute best to research the most advanced and esoteric systems passed down by masters who have real power, and figure out what they have in common, what works and what doesn't. This seems to be a logical approach. So far I have found 3 masters with actual demonstrable power and all of them claim it is something which anyone can develop, but I digress.

I am aware I might be wrong, but this is the conclusion I have drawn logically from all my research. I think above all else Buddha stressed logical and rational thinking in his teachings. i.e. if it doesn't agree with your reason don't believe it, no matter even if I said it. I am paraphrasing but you get the point.

 

Accepting a person can be truly enlightened without some deeper understanding and control of the dream, is one such thing that disagrees with my reason.

 

If a person came to me claiming they were enlightened, I would require proof to validate such a claim. I don't care how peaceful and blissed out they were. I don't care if they achieved true non-dual awareness. I don't care if they spoke like a pansy and threw flowers at me. That is just common sense to me. I don't think it is rational to accept such an assertion without some proof.

 

My view of enlightenment, and ascension, are not in keeping with the "chop wood, carry water" analogy. Perhaps what I am looking for will only be realized by technological advancement and not through spiritual searching. A person carrying water and chopping wood and claiming to be enlightened, is in my opinion either in a state of true non-dual awareness, or delusion, and neither of those things really constitute what I think of as enlightenment.

If a person were fully enlightened, they would be awake, aware of the dream and eventually able to control it in ways which would manifest beyond most peoples comprehension. If the stories about wang li ping are true this is what I assume a modern day Buddha would be like.

 

Perhaps what I am seeking isn't really enlightenment at all. Perhaps its scientific apotheosis: a correct, complete, and total understanding of reality, the universe and all its functions, is more what I am searching for. Einstein said he wanted to know God's thoughts. I totally relate to his quest, and that is more in line with my idea of enlightenment.

 

But then again enlightenment is only secondary to my goal of never being reborn. If this means existing as a spirit eternally, thats fine. If it means a state of total non existence that is fine also. Right now that is my main goal, everything else is just icing.

 

All that has been stated here is merely my opinion, and I am certain it can be wrong. I have been wrong about a lot of things in my life.

 

I seek power to awaken, and transcend this reality. I seek power to help heal and teach others, and make the world a better place. I view these things as morally correct uses of power.

 

I am not trying to tell you you are wrong if you disagree with me. As to why I posted this in the first place, I don't really know. Sometimes I like just speaking my mind, and seeing what others think. Is that a bad thing? I don't feel I really need to convince you, if you disagree with me thats your prerogative. I'm not here to sell you on my view of things, I am just throwing it out there.

Interesting, No it is not a bad thing to speak your mind. I was just throwing out an idea. keep in mind that if someone has an understanding of reality and is able to control it they probably see the uselessness in using and manipulating it, in playing the game of the ego which says that the world isn't in perfect cosmic order already. Hence the water pail story. She was already doing what the cosmos asked her to do, any judgement of any action is simply ego.

[mwight]

Interesting, No it is not a bad thing to speak your mind. I was just throwing out an idea. keep in mind that if someone has an understanding of reality and is able to control it they probably see the uselessness in using and manipulating it, in playing the game of the ego which says that the world isn't in perfect cosmic order already. Hence the water pail story. She was already doing what the cosmos asked her to do, any judgement of any action is simply ego.

 

I can see that, if thats what I was supposed to do I guess I would do it also. But I wouldn't expect someone else to seriously believe I was enlightened unless I could show them for certain I was. Thats the only point I am trying to make.

 

There are a lot of people with a lot of opinions I try to focus on the ones who have some degree of power, because in my mind they are doing something right.

 

I feel I have said way more than was needed, in defense of my viewpoints.

 

I am going to bow out of this thread.

 

Sorry for rambling so much

[松永道]

From my understanding, enlightenment breaks you out of the cycle of death and rebirth, at least as it pertains to being human. You say this is your ultimate goal. I don't think just any type of supernatural ability is a stepping stone to this goal. This seems to actually be one of the perils of having power. Having power here makes this reality more attractive. You can become more attached to it. Power is ego candy.

 

The goal of many traditions is to break the cycle of death and rebirth. More often then not they don't place a lot of emphasis on powers. They aren't the highest goal. Not that you can't use them, you just don't want to get attached to using them. Stick to your ultimate goal and you'll get power without chasing it.

[Gerard]

A lot of people here criticize those who seek power, and refer to them as megalomaniacs and juveniles etc, but there are some of us who only want power to liberate ourselves. A few of us realize this world isn't real and we don't seek to control a dream.

 

By seeking power you are going backwards instead. You are renforcing your ego which is the last thing you want to do if you are planning to go forward.

 

Siddhis only deviates the spiritual practitioner from the final goal.

 

Be careful.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Cant someone have abilties without ego, look at wang li ping and all the lamas that do amazing things, gurus are all them egotistic?

 

Proper cultivation brings these abilities i have been told so how can it be all ego if you cultiavte right you get it anyway?!

 

I think having these abilities without the ego can be attained and i would love to feel what it feels like to levitate or move objects, do amazing things with the healing power like Master Chang.

 

Hi Lin,

 

With all your meditation have you attained any abilities or your teach, could you share some stories?

 

WYG

[joeblast]

From my understanding, once you understand the root of the spiritual side of the equation, you also understand that these powers are trivial byproducts of the path. One can attain powers and become attached to them, but that necessarily seems to limit progress towards the pinnacle.

[freeform]

You know a lot... You know a lot about enlightenment... you know a lot about your 'journey'... you know a lot about the multiverse interpretation... Have you ever considered that knowing is the one thing that's keeping you asleep, dreaming the dream that is 'mwight'?

 

Have you noticed that 'knowing' is just a form of illusory control? Once you 'know', you can be sure... there is no need to be unsure, confused or even be aware of what you know - because you already know it, it's all under control. Notice how everything you think of spirituality is controlled - I need to be able to sit in deep trance for 10 hours... I need to be in a void... I need to develop gamma brainwaves... I need to be able to demonstrate power - and then I will know I'm enlightened...

 

Just below the knowing and control - in the gaps between - there is Now - that contains all the universes all the good and all the bad, all the strands of all realities but all at once... to get to Now, you have to let go... then you have to let go of letting go - I suspect the 'knowing' part of you is reading this and thinking "this guy knows nothing - that's exactly what I do already"... another opportunity to let go ...

 

When you start letting go, really letting go - not letting go in a controlled, tightly scheduled way - but letting go in the same way you would have to let go to allow yourself to fall off the edge of a cliff - when you really let go, you will be presented with what is. And just like everyone else who decides to travel the way you will have to confront all the stuff that is obscuring Now, the stuff that's been buried, that's been suppressed by the part of you that knows... The stuff that you refuse to acknowledge as important for you - grounding, emotional stability, relationships etc. may well become important - I don't know, and neither will you (remember - when letting go, there is nothing to grasp or hold on to...)

 

To know or to Now - that is the question

[MASTERforge]

Right on FreeForm

 

You get it. Love to meet up for a beer sometime.

 

Nothing else needs to be said really. Its all here.

 

But you will probably go running off looking for it elsewhere

 

See my earlier post for reference

 

I had a similar encounter with a guy who was studying business. He told me he wanted to be the head of a large corporation because he wanted the power.

 

Felt sorry for him. Obviously something went a miss in his life for that to be one of his goals in life. You see life is all transitory and we are all dead pretty quickly. Chasing after illusions whilst missing the beauty around you is nothing but folly.

[mwight]

Right on FreeForm

 

You get it. Love to meet up for a beer sometime.

 

Nothing else needs to be said really. Its all here.

 

But you will probably go running off looking for it elsewhere

 

See my earlier post for reference

 

I had a similar encounter with a guy who was studying business. He told me he wanted to be the head of a large corporation because he wanted the power.

 

Felt sorry for him. Obviously something went a miss in his life for that to be one of his goals in life. You see life is all transitory and we are all dead pretty quickly. Chasing after illusions whilst missing the beauty around you is nothing but folly.

 

Well I hoped I had made a distinction between power to control other people, and gain material wealth, and the power to liberate yourself, and help others do the same. I guess I didn't though.

[joeblast]

You did, mwight...but in a way, your verbiage exudes (even if subtly) some underlying attachment, and I think that's what these other guys are pointing out.

[freeform]

Well I hoped I had made a distinction between power to control other people, and gain material wealth, and the power to liberate yourself, and help others do the same. I guess I didn't though.

 

Enlightenment is about everything rather than something specific... If you're seeking something specific (power) for something specific (healing) then you're moving against the flow of enlightenment - which always leads to everything...

 

here is also a big element of control coming from the part of you that 'knows' - it doesn't matter what specifically you want power for - whether it's healing and curing the ill or being a deadly martial artist, it's still that small, very limited, knowing part of you that is doing this. It's yet another way for your knowing mind to control your world and keep you in this state of sleep, dreaming the illusion that it creates.

 

You might notice that you feel a little offended by what I've said... the you that is offended is holding on to all the baggage that you identify with as "I", and all I'm offending is this stuff that this part of you is holding on to... There is another part of you that is radiating infinitely - That's the "I" that can never be offended, because it holds on to nothing specific and embraces everything, that's the part that you've always wanted to re-discover...

 

MASTERforge - a pint sounds great! (can a pint 'sound'?...)

[joeblast]

with all that jiggly liquid motion, how could a pint not sound?

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Seeking enlightment is an attachment, seeking the letting go would be an attachment!

 

Damned if you do and damned if you dont..... Enjoy life and all it has to offer, experience it all brother!!!

[MASTERforge]

Wun Yuen Gong gets it too

 

Fancy a pint too?

 

In fact everyone is welcome, lets all go for a pint

 

Can a pint sound? Does a bear Sh@t in the woods?

[greenchild]

,,,

Edited October 23, 2008 by greenchild

[Mantra68]

Empowerment rather than power.

 

Nobody wants to feel as though they have no power, and everybody wants to feel empowered.

 

When you let go of everything that is "you" the divine remains and experiencing that "power" ends the issue.