Why I Seek Power

[mwight]

If you ever achieved enlightenment, how would you know you hadn't simply gone insane?

 

I don't think it would be possible to make that distinction unless you had the ability to understand and control reality at a higher level than non enlightened "normal people".

 

I guess more than anything, I seek power as a litmus test for insanity. If you claim enlightenment and cannot back it up with a few fireworks your no better than your local time traveling, alien humping, drunken homeless bum.

 

As a matter of fact stating you have achieved enlightenment is enough for them to lock you away for a a few weeks in a mental home until your unenlightened again.

 

 

I'm sorry I just don't seeing a modern day Buddha allowing some punks to straight jacket them, I just don't think he or she would put up that.

 

A lot of people here criticize those who seek power, and refer to them as megalomaniacs and juveniles etc, but there are some of us who only want power to liberate ourselves. A few of us realize this world isn't real and we don't seek to control a dream.

[minkus]

Most people here in the west look weird when you even talk about power in the sence you do. For them power is having alot of property and goods and having control and influence over people, often in there job.

 

There's a chance when you claim to be enlightend you get put in the nuthouse, yeh lol. Thats why that even when you have strong inner power its not wise to demonstrate it recklessly, it can create distance between you and the people you actually wonna help.

 

I dont think someone that is enlightend has the need to prove this to anyone, isnt that the thing they transcended ? I dont think enlightenment can be measured by how much volt you can produce for example, more about how kind, compassionate you are and how much insight you have.. people notice that from themselves and will get strenght out of it.

 

I seek healingpower and wisdom to go with it, anyone got any spare ?

[宁]

Now for health we have to work, and for wisdom we have to pray and deserve it.

It's said that when we ask God for wisdom, he sents problems to us, because solving them makes us more wise.

I often think that there are other people behind the masters of today, people of much more power and wisdom, that choose to remain in anonimity, and hire others to do their jobs and act as masters - it would only fit daoist philosophy.

It seems that at least a couple of them died or dissapeared suddently without a trace, but in fact they can still be around

[minkus]

Now for health we have to work, and for wisdom we have to pray and deserve it.

It's said that when we ask God for wisdom, he sents problems to us, because solving them makes us more wise.

I often think that there are other people behind the masters of today, people of much more power and wisdom, that choose to remain in anonimity, and hire others to do their jobs and act as masters - it would only fit daoist philosophy.

It seems that at least a couple of them died or dissapeared suddently without a trace, but in fact they can still be around

 

Hey Little one, for our health we have to work hard and also if we wonna heal others. Logically its hard to heal others when you cant even heal yourself

 

About the masters it sounds a bit mysterious, unknown powerfull sources behind todays masters.

 

You mean that current powerfull masters let there job be done by others so they can remain and act in the background (influencing others from the background or self cultivating in peace) ? or even further that certain masters get influenced by powerfull people via the spiritual plane ? the last may sound weird yeh but you know what i mean.

 

I dunno yust asking

[wudangspirit]

Diddo on your comment!

 

I don't think a so called "enlightened" person will ever claim that they are "enlightened" or really ever know they are however will just go through a change and accept it.

 

I think enlightment can be attained however in many levels. Who knows?

 

your TAO IS YOUR TAO and no one elses.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Most people here in the west look weird when you even talk about power in the sence you do. For them power is having alot of property and goods and having control and influence over people, often in there job.

 

There's a chance when you claim to be enlightend you get put in the nuthouse, yeh lol. Thats why that even when you have strong inner power its not wise to demonstrate it recklessly, it can create distance between you and the people you actually wonna help.

 

I dont think someone that is enlightend has the need to prove this to anyone, isnt that the thing they transcended ? I dont think enlightenment can be measured by how much volt you can produce for example, more about how kind, compassionate you are and how much insight you have.. people notice that from themselves and will get strenght out of it.

 

I seek healingpower and wisdom to go with it, anyone got any spare ?

[松永道]

You practice qigong? Meditation? Cultivation? Do you understand why it's called inner work? What sort of proof are you looking for?

 

From my experience you have it backwards my friend. Don't worry the least bit about enlightenment driving you mad. Enlightenment is a simplification. You know how when you understand how to do something it's easy, obvious, effortless? Enlightenment is less noise. Less crazy.

 

Power on the other hand could well land you in the madhouse if you your enlightenment doesn't out pace it. Take martial power too far and you can become cold, callous, arrogant and much worse. Take psychic power too far and you'll wind up spending more time conversing with spirits, masters, angels, and immortals, and loose touch with this side of life. You need enlightenment to temper these. Otherwise power corrupts.

 

But you're just looking for proof right? Let me ask: is this proof for you or for other people?

[mwight]

You practice qigong? Meditation? Cultivation? Do you understand why it's called inner work? What sort of proof are you looking for?

 

From my experience you have it backwards my friend. Don't worry the least bit about enlightenment driving you mad. Enlightenment is a simplification. You know how when you understand how to do something it's easy, obvious, effortless? Enlightenment is less noise. Less crazy.

 

Power on the other hand could well land you in the madhouse if you your enlightenment doesn't out pace it. Take martial power too far and you can become cold, callous, arrogant and much worse. Take psychic power too far and you'll wind up spending more time conversing with spirits, masters, angels, and immortals, and loose touch with this side of life. You need enlightenment to temper these. Otherwise power corrupts.

 

But you're just looking for proof right? Let me ask: is this proof for you or for other people?

 

Yes I know exactly how it sounds. It sounds like I want power to show off, gain material wealth, or for martial purposes. I don't.

 

I want out of this reality. Nothing here is real, its a dream, I want out of it as soon as possible.

 

The reason I seek power is so I can know personally I am not delusional or insane if I ever achieved enlightenment.

 

In 2005 you see I was experimenting with gamma brainwave entrainment, I had read several studies about Buddhist monks with 50,000 hours+ meditational experience. The amplitude and synchrony of their gamma waves were nothing like researchers had ever seen. Gamma waves are intimately related to consciousness itself, a brief burst of gamma activity is seen during an AHA! Eureka moment. Gamma waves also completely disappear under general anesthesia.

 

I meditated using gamma entrainment at 42hz for about a week before reality began to de-cohere around me.

Too many coincidences to mention, some things just so insane no one would even believe me.

During this time my entire world view changed, and I realized a lot about the nature of reality.

 

Eventually I got to a point where I discovered I had more than one body, and there were more layers of reality, other worlds just like our own, very similar. I could shift my consciousness between them. Sometimes my awareness got stuck in multiple realities at once, listening to multiple conversations. Sometimes one limb was stuck in one reality and unavailable in another, trying to remember how to remain whole in one singular reality was impossible.

 

I know what that feels like.

 

 

I am aware this was viewed by outside observers as hallucinatory, I had no real power to prove anything, and wound up getting a spinal tap against my will, and being committed for a few weeks.

 

 

This isn't something I am proud of but I hope it explains why I want power. To know I am not insane if I ever achieve enlightenment. I want this power to break the chains of rebirth. I want this power to help others who seek the same. It's really as simple as that.

Edited March 2, 2008 by mwight

[Flowingthroughtime]

I want out of this reality. Nothing here is real, its a dream, I want out of it as soon as possible.

 

There is no need of a way out! Don't you see that a way out is also part of the dream?

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[松永道]

Now, it sounds like you've already got power, overloaded in fact, you just got to ground it! Sounds to me like you should be doing a little more work to get into this reality rather than wanting out of it. It is real here you know. Just as real as the other realities anyway.

 

You want my advice? You take up some practices that ground you here. Exercise. Martial Arts, Taiji, sports, weightlifting, pick the one you like because developing the body is the best way to ground. And then eat well. And during those activities take stock of the relationships in your life. Gratitude is grounding. Family, friends, pets, romance, the natural world, yourself.

 

Give the upper dantian/upper chakras some time to cool down.

 

Well done on the psychonaut work though. The community needs experiences, good and bad, at just how cultivation and technology can mix together.

[mwight]

There is no need of a way out! Don't you see that a way out is also part of the dream?

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

 

Perhaps I could have worded it better, I seek to exist eternally as formless awareness. No memories, no ego, no language, no thoughts, just awareness of voidness. I do not wish to ever be reborn into a phenomenal reality.

[Lotus Flower]

mwight, I commend you in your search. Please continue to share

[mwight]

Now, it sounds like you've already got power, overloaded in fact, you just got to ground it! Sounds to me like you should be doing a little more work to get into this reality rather than wanting out of it. It is real here you know. Just as real as the other realities anyway.

 

You want my advice? You take up some practices that ground you here. Exercise. Martial Arts, Taiji, sports, weightlifting, pick the one you like because developing the body is the best way to ground. And then eat well. And during those activities take stock of the relationships in your life. Gratitude is grounding. Family, friends, pets, romance, the natural world, yourself.

 

Give the upper dantian/upper chakras some time to cool down.

 

Well done on the psychonaut work though. The community needs experiences, good and bad, at just how cultivation and technology can mix together.

 

 

I have no real power yet unfortunately. Any ability I may have can only manifest after about 3-4 hours of deep trance. I am not even finished with filling my lower dantein (level 1), So please don't think I am claiming I currently have any real power, I don't.

 

I will be leaving this year to do just as you suggest. I am leaving on a 5 year meditation retreat, to be in solitude, and focus on my training. I also agree with you on the development of the physical body and eating as the best grounding methods.

[Flowingthroughtime]

Perhaps I could have worded it better, I seek to exist eternally as formless awareness. No memories, no ego, no language, no thoughts, just awareness of voidness. I do not wish to ever be reborn into a phenomenal reality.

 

You previously said this reality is not real. You cannot be reborn into something which doesn't exist in the first place. Something eternal have no end and no beginning. You can therefore not become an eternal formless awareness (that would imply that it has a beginning and would hence not be eternal). You must already be this formless eternal awareness. It seems like you seek what you already are and want out from something you admit doesn't exist.

[松永道]

I have no real power yet unfortunately. Any ability I may have can only manifest after about 3-4 hours of deep trance. I am not even finished with filling my lower dantein (level 1), So please don't think I am claiming I currently have any real power, I don't.

 

I will be leaving this year to do just as you suggest. I am leaving on a 5 year meditation retreat, to be in solitude, and focus on my training. I also agree with you on the development of the physical body and eating as the best grounding methods.

 

All I'm saying is it sounds like you've got enough power flowing that you're overloading the circuitry. And 3-4 hours of deep trance is quite an achievement. Is this in sitting meditation without the gamma waves? If so, highly achieved people generally don't sit more than 4 hours in full -lotus at a time unless they have a special reason to do so. They say more than 2 hours of thoughtlessness gets you noticed in the universe.

 

天 Heaven; Consciousness; leaves, flowers, fruits

人 Human; Emotion; trunk, branches, bark

地 Earth; Body; seed, roots, shoots

 

This is an important breakdown in daoist cultivation. You're too top heavy. If that's the case balance is found by developing down. Improve your relationship on the human and earth levels. Solitude may not be the best medicine.

[mwight]

All I'm saying is it sounds like you've got enough power flowing that you're overloading the circuitry. And 3-4 hours of deep trance is quite an achievement. Is this in sitting meditation without the gamma waves? If so, highly achieved people generally don't sit more than 4 hours in full -lotus at a time unless they have a special reason to do so. They say more than 2 hours of thoughtlessness gets you noticed in the universe.

 

天 Heaven; Consciousness; leaves, flowers, fruits

人 Human; Emotion; trunk, branches, bark

地 Earth; Body; seed, roots, shoots

 

This is an important breakdown in daoist cultivation. You're too top heavy. If that's the case balance is found by developing down. Improve your relationship on the human and earth levels. Solitude may not be the best medicine.

 

I appreciate all the advice, but I think were aiming for two different goals. My goal is not to live a happy life, and to have better personal relations, its to transcend this world. There are a lot of people and a lot of paths, and this is mine.

 

Yes more than two hours does get you noticed, and thats exactly what I am aiming for, eventually I would like to be able to spend 10 hours a day in trance or more, leaving time to eat, exercise, shower. etc.

 

The deeper the trance the better, I hope to master leaving my body at will as to seek out teachers, and information. I have been out of my body a few times, each time for a slightly longer period, doing qigong/neigong while out of body also holds amazing potential.

 

You guys can continue your grounded lifestyles, and work on building better interpersonal relationships, be better people, work at local charities, and honestly it isn't going to do anything to help you awaken into a higher level of consciousness. Sure it will make you a better person, of that I am certain.

 

The problem is I don't want to be a better person. I don't even want to be a person. I don't want to be anything. It's really that simple. Perhaps this mode of thought is in and of itself insane, but its what I want, and its what I am seeking.

[Lotus Flower]

I appreciate all the advice, but I think were aiming for two different goals. My goal is not to live a happy life, and to have better personal relations, its to transcend this world. There are a lot of people and a lot of paths, and this is mine.

 

Yes more than two hours does get you noticed, and thats exactly what I am aiming for, eventually I would like to be able to spend 10 hours a day in trance or more, leaving time to eat, exercise, shower. etc.

 

The deeper the trance the better, I hope to master leaving my body at will as to seek out teachers, and information. I have been out of my body a few times, each time for a slightly longer period, doing qigong/neigong while out of body also holds amazing potential.

 

You guys can continue your grounded lifestyles, and work on building better interpersonal relationships, be better people, work at local charities, and honestly it isn't going to do anything to help you awaken into a higher level of consciousness. Sure it will make you a better person, of that I am certain.

 

The problem is I don't want to be a better person. I don't even want to be a person. I don't want to be anything. It's really that simple. Perhaps this mode of thought is in and of itself insane, but its what I want, and its what I am seeking.

 

I feel that you are just able to define your path and that is a good thing. Not everyone is on the same path, as you said. Some people can accept that (as you can) others can not.

[Flowingthroughtime]

Yes more than two hours does get you noticed, and thats exactly what I am aiming for, eventually I would like to be able to spend 10 hours a day in trance or more, leaving time to eat, exercise, shower. etc.

 

The deeper the trance the better, I hope to master leaving my body at will as to seek out teachers, and information. I have been out of my body a few times, each time for a slightly longer period, doing qigong/neigong while out of body also holds amazing potential.

 

Then you need to find out whether you got the neccesary talent to do so. Around 20% of the population got chi recognition. 2% got enough chi recognition to get anywhere with meditation and trances. Then you have all kinds of talent level. 1 in 100 000, 1 in 100 0000 etc etc. To leave your body you have to lower your brain waves to below delta. At an EEG there is a flat line when you reach it. Then your astral body that is integrated with your nervous system separates from it and you get a genuine NDE. This requires great talent and might even then take years to learn. You might even accidently kill yourself by shutting down your brain.

 

So it comes down to whether you got enough talent. Not everyone are elite hockey players even if they practise 10 hours a day. It also requires talent. It is the same with trance work!

 

Remember that REM-sleep OOBES are not real out of body experiences. Those are just realistic dreams.

[松永道]

I think we have the same aim. But, well, a tall tree needs deep roots. Agreed? The higher you want to go, the bigger your foundation needs to be. I'm not saying you should be healthy, emotionally balanced, and otherwise grounded just to lead a happy life. I'm saying it because the other option is unbalanced, difficult, and invites disaster. A balanced life is the root.

 

The thing is, awakening is everything and everywhere. The profound universe is at work when you do daily activities just the same as when you're in meditation. The difference is your state of mind. There's a reason your conscious came here and I'm guessing it's not just to run back into being formless awareness. Plenty of time for that when you're dead. In the mean time, you've got a life and that's a lucky thing, best use well while you're here.

 

Here's one translation of Daodejing chapter 36:

 

If you want to shrink something,

you must first allow it to expand.

If you want to get rid of something,

you must first allow it to flourish.

If you want to take something,

you must first allow it to be given.

This is called the subtle perception

of the way things are.

 

The soft overcomes the hard.

The slow overcomes the fast.

Let your workings remain a mystery.

Just show people the results.

[mwight]

You previously said this reality is not real. You cannot be reborn into something which doesn't exist in the first place. Something eternal have no end and no beginning. You can therefore not become an eternal formless awareness (that would imply that it has a beginning and would hence not be eternal). You must already be this formless eternal awareness. It seems like you seek what you already are and want out from something you admit doesn't exist.

 

 

Let me ask you is a movie on a DVD real? The movie itself is just 1's and 0's in a long string. The laser of your dvd player reads this string and interprets them and produces a signal which is sent to your TV.

 

If you watch this movie and suspend your disbelief for a while you will forget about your life, your problems, your very existence even if you are deeply enthralled enough by it.

 

But... The movie itself has no more reality than does a painting.

 

This is what I am getting at: This life we're living is no more real than is a DVD. We have built up this character, and identified with them, and we falsely believe thats who and what we are.

 

The world, indeed, is like a dream and the treasures of the world are an alluring mirage! Like the apparent distances in a picture, things have no reality in themselves, but they are like heat haze.

-Buddha

 

The way we fundamentally view the universe is wrong, just our ancestors believed the earth was flat and the sun revolved around us. Time as we know it does not exist, instead past and future are part of a solid whole of which we only experience the present moment. I liken this to how a dvd works, the laser (your consciousness) reads the data from the disc (your life) resulting in the image being played on the screen (your mind).

 

What we call the past, the present, and future are apart of a solid object. What moves through this object from past into the future is our point of consciousness. The world around us is still, what is moving is our consciousness, not the world.

 

 

It is my observation that we do indeed live in a multiverse, and not a singular universe. This is also the most accepted interpretations of Quantum Mechanics. It is called the MWI (Many Worlds Interpretation), Hawking is one of the most prominent subscribers to this interpretation.

 

 

All of these seemingly separate universes, are in fact apart of a larger whole. We navigate through them every moment we are aware. We make choices, decisions, actions, have certain thoughts, etc.. etc.. This is the process of navigating through this field of infinite possibilities.

 

 

Also all these seemingly separate worlds are apart of the same whole I call infinity, everything that is was or could be.

 

 

I like this analogy:

 

When you download a song,movie,book, etc off the internet, it is a large binary number. It is an actual number between one, and infinity. Granted its a very large number maybe even exceeding a trillion digits. Far longer than any of us could really fathom, but the fact remains it is an actual number that exists between one and infinity.

 

I have a hard time getting people to grasp that songs exist before we create them, or books exist before we write them, or movies exist before we record them,but its true. They exist in digital terms as large numbers, somewhere between one and infinity. Actual numbers just as real as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.

 

You see that is how I view this world, and all the other possible worlds, and all their possible histories, presents, and futures. They are but large possible arrangements of matter and energy, like works of art, like songs, like movies.

 

In my mind at least there is nothing new that can ever be thought, done, or witnessed. If it is possible it has already occurred, and is simply waiting to be uncovered. There was a Greek Sculptor once who claimed he didn't carve anything, his sculptures were already there inside the rock, he merely helped them out.

 

Our world is merely one possible world carved out of infinity, and eternity. One possibility which we could attach a mathematical number to represent. Just like digital song, movie, or book. I argue that if this is the way the universe (or rather multiverse) is then it is indeed illusory.

 

But Illusory doesn't mean that it isn't real or valid to your experience. Most certainly you can download a movie, a song, or a book off the internet and enjoy it. It is real to your experience, and perception.

 

I don't believe there is any fundamental building block, all physical particles are divisible ad infinitum, and the reality we see around is electric, holographic, and fractal-ic. All is caused by the interaction of various waveforms giving rise to our observable universe, and as such is illusory. Perhaps thats an incorrect view, but it rings true at a deep level within me. Perhaps if there is something real about all of this, its our experience.

 

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________

 

Then you need to find out whether you got the neccesary talent to do so. Around 20% of the population got chi recognition. 2% got enough chi recognition to get anywhere with meditation and trances. Then you have all kinds of talent level. 1 in 100 000, 1 in 100 0000 etc etc. To leave your body you have to lower your brain waves to below delta. At an EEG there is a flat line when you reach it. Then your astral body that is integrated with your nervous system separates from it and you get a genuine NDE. This requires great talent and might even then take years to learn. You might even accidently kill yourself by shutting down your brain.

 

So it comes down to whether you got enough talent. Not everyone are elite hockey players even if they practise 10 hours a day. It also requires talent. It is the same with trance work!

 

Remember that REM-sleep OOBES are not real out of body experiences. Those are just realistic dreams.

 

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I believe everyone with enough determination and practice can achieve a true obe. It is possible I just had hyper real dreams, but seeing as I was able to read perfectly and had full control over the mathematical and logical side of my brain I have to wonder.

Edited March 2, 2008 by mwight

[松永道]

 

Perhaps if there is something real about all of this, its our experience.

 

 

Bingo.

[Flowingthroughtime]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I believe everyone with enough determination and practice can achieve a true obe. It is possible I just had hyper real dreams, but seeing as I was able to read perfectly and had full control over the mathematical and logical side of my brain I have to wonder.

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but i belive everyone with enough determination and practise can be as good ice hockey player as Wayne Gretzky. Do you see the flaws with that kind of argumentation? Different levels of talent does exist! Not many people can achieve a true obe even with great practise and determination.

 

Dreams does not have to lower your cognitive functions as proved in the following scientific study: http://lucidity.com/slbbs/

 

According to taoist master Mantak Chia it takes 20-30 years to learn to get real obes if you got talent.

[mwight]

I think we have the same aim. But, well, a tall tree needs deep roots. Agreed? The higher you want to go, the bigger your foundation needs to be. I'm not saying you should be healthy, emotionally balanced, and otherwise grounded just to lead a happy life. I'm saying it because the other option is unbalanced, difficult, and invites disaster. A balanced life is the root.

 

The thing is, awakening is everything and everywhere. The profound universe is at work when you do daily activities just the same as when you're in meditation. The difference is your state of mind. There's a reason your conscious came here and I'm guessing it's not just to run back into being formless awareness. Plenty of time for that when you're dead. In the mean time, you've got a life and that's a lucky thing, best use well while you're here.

 

Here's one translation of Daodejing chapter 36:

 

If you want to shrink something,

you must first allow it to expand.

If you want to get rid of something,

you must first allow it to flourish.

If you want to take something,

you must first allow it to be given.

This is called the subtle perception

of the way things are.

 

The soft overcomes the hard.

The slow overcomes the fast.

Let your workings remain a mystery.

Just show people the results.

 

 

I agree with you, any type of soft practice must be balanced with hard practice. The school I am in requires a strong physical body also, to master. I lift weights and ride a bike to work when it is warm. I eat well, I think. I am about 30lbs overweight but I am strong as an ox, and aerobically fit. In real life I try be a kind person. I donate my time to fix computers for people, and such.

 

 

 

I don't really talk about my deepest thoughts on life, the universe and everything with the people I know in real life, The people I know do not care about rebirth, or becoming enlightened, they only want to eat drink and be merry. I find it better just to keep such things to myself, but here in these forums I share them with the community because I feel like someone else might feel the same way as I do and get some use out of them.

 

I am sure if you met me in real life you would never even think "wow this dude is batshit insane, chasing after supernatural power to break free of reincarnation." you would probably just think I was a boring computer geek hermit who prefers to stay at home on Friday night.

[Ian]

I guess more than anything, I seek power as a litmus test for insanity. If you claim enlightenment and cannot back it up with a few fireworks your no better than your local time traveling, alien humping, drunken homeless bum.

 

If you want a very detailed piece of analysis from someone who has experienced both insanity and enlightenment, do check out this thread and follow the link to the blook.

 

Thing is, and this is just my opinion, you can never ever be absolutely sure you're not insane. But you can establish whether you're at peace or not.

[mwight]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but i belive everyone with enough determination and practise can be as good ice hockey player as Wayne Gretzky. Do you see the flaws with that kind of argumentation? Different levels of talent does exist! Not many people can achieve a true obe even with great practise and determination.

 

Dreams does not have to lower your cognitive functions as proved in the following scientific study: http://lucidity.com/slbbs/

 

According to taoist master Mantak Chia it takes 20-30 years to learn to get real obes if you got talent.

 

 

Sure if you sit on the sofa and eat popcorn your never going to be a professional athlete.

 

 

I have made the seemingly impossible manifest in my life, when I decided to go to war for it. Burn your bridges and smash your cooking pots, and stake your very life upon the outcome of the battle. Thats what it takes.

 

It all revolves around your desire, and your will and resolve to accomplish it. If you want something you must stake all upon it, and dedicate your every waking moment and soul even to accomplish it.

 

You have to make it your life's dream, you sole purpose for existing. Eat it, breath it, sleep it. Train, study strategies, and never give up. A complete and total immersion in your goal, its war.

 

 

 

Did you know Einstein was an idiot as a child. No really! he was. He was a borderline retarded child. When he was younger he learned to live inside his imagination, and create a virtual world in which to play. He stayed in this state and learned to use this mode of visual thinking to intuitive come up with solutions with problems. He was able to master both hemispheres of his brain and dream up all his theories.

 

I highly recommend a book called the Einstein Factor Written by Win Wenger. It goes into the meditation Einstein used to come up with all his theories.

 

 

Einstein used deep trance work, he would sit in a chair and hold two rocks one in either hand. If he fell asleep he dropped the rocks and woke up to write down what solution he had worked out with his dream.

 

He remarked he flew out of his body into space to observe, and could feel the gravity waves bending the fabric of space and time and causing the flow of light to be bent around very mass dense objects.

We have proven this to occur and call it gravitational lensing.

 

He also realized that time flows at different rates for different observers, certain things effect the flow of time locally like dense gravitational feeds or traveling near the speed of light. If you were hovering outside a black hole, or traveling near the speed of light for you time outside would seem to speed up, and from outside you would appear to slow down.

 

He also realized that all matter is really energy condensed.

 

This was a complete revolution in physics because until then it was believed time flowed the same for all observers.

 

 

All of these observations came from intuitive realizations during an OBE, whether it be a "true" or pseudo obe it doesn't matter. There is truth to be had here, and thats where I want to be.

 

 

Tesla one of the greatest minds of all time was able to enter a world within his own mind at any moment, and test inventions and ideas in a mental workshop which was just as real as real life. He had many issues with his sanity due to this advanced ability.

 

 

Edgar Cayce, Andrew Carnegie, all of these people tapped into this.

 

 

If you don't think its possible, and that your either born with it or your not thats fine. I don't feel the same way. Maybe I am just a dreamer, even if I never reach my goal I am going to give it all I have.

Edited March 2, 2008 by mwight

[松永道]

If you want a very detailed piece of analysis from someone who has experienced both insanity and enlightenment, do check out this thread and follow the link to the blook.

 

Thing is, and this is just my opinion, you can never ever be absolutely sure you're not insane. But you can establish whether you're at peace or not.

 

Very cool Ian, very cool. I first started meditating with vipassana and greatly informed my practice of neigong to this point. Hmmm, I wonder if they can be practiced concurrently...

 

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And mwight I don't think you're insane. I've been on both sides of this debate. I was taking off like a rocket ship for better and worse before I got to China and was knocked out with some old wisdom. Slow is fast, fast is slow. Very traditional, conservative, pragmatic; I know. But I have definitely gotten benefit through learning not to rush for the result. Anyway, you've heard enough of my opinion. Do your dao. Right hand, left hand, follow a plan or make one up as you go. Everything works itself out.

 

On an academic note though. I'm not familiar with OBE's myself but I'm told in the context of my school's cultivation there are two types. One path is ghost immortal (literal translation), the other is the way of the sage, actualized person, real person. They say ghost immortal practice gives you OBEs without form, the other path gives you OBEs that can take form. So one is just a yang projection, the other is both yang and yin. The first path takes much less time but if you follow it its practice prevents practicing the other path. To practice merged yin and yang projection takes longer but is the real secret to immaterial immortality.

 

I have no personal experience on the matter so as far as I know right now it's just a very interesting possibility.