Energy rich guy seeking advice on choosing a method

[Ecclectica]

28 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

As you are in Sydney, my teacher, John Dolic, at www.qigongchinesehealth.com, is one of the best people I have met for it. Spontaneous Qigong alone from him is fantastic, but he also teaches Baguazhang classes in a group and Shaolin long fist. The man also knows many more styles beyond what he publicly teaches. 

 

He also teaches Shibashi on his site and does Skype sessions too. Feel free to contact him and if you need an introduction, let me know and I can talk to him. 

  

 

Thanks very much Earl.

 

I will give him a call.

 

Just checking his website now. 

 

He has some expensive classes! 

 

[Earl Grey]

Just now, Ecclectica said:

  

 

Thanks very much Earl.

 

I will give him a call.

 

Just checking his website now. 

 

He has some expensive classes! 

 

 

He is willing to negotiate or payment plans in my experience, especially for my friends. 

 

The expensive classes, such as spontaneous and sleeping qigong styles are very much worth the price, because if we do not value the knowledge and feel it should be accessible for all, we actually block potential to grow in that style if it were given to us for free. It works that way for these high level practices for some reason, much like someone learning DVD Tai Chi or Liuhebafa will never possess the skill of someone who has a good teacher (emphasis good teacher and lineage).

 

Those styles can actually bring you into enlightenment. For the other systems he teaches, those are great for health and martial purposes, but those two and Fragrant are the best I've seen him teach along side Relaxation form. The problem with Fragrant is you cannot meditate if you practice it. 

[Ecclectica]

9 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Blockages cannot be fully resolved with qigong because they are ultimately due to unconsciousness, and so continuing with meditation practice becoming conscious is a big part of the solution ... until that time you do not actually have control of your self.  

 

When you sit you should not move.  That is a fundamental of the practice. You simply must not move. 

Not to be overly controlled, but you certainly don't move anything. 

In Zen sitting just follow a traditional teacher like Suzuki's Beginner's Mind Zen Mind.

 

As the water settles the rocks appear.  There are many discomforts that need to be worked through, that is the journey, it is painful and your experiences show that these things are arising.  That is normal.  Continue. 

It may be useful for you to take a more settling approach to meditation as a whole.

I gave instructions for merging with the breath in the belly.

 

I suggest that physical exercise might work for you.  Running, martial arts, anything.   You can get Yan Lei's bootcamp dvds or join an evening class.

It may fix your discomforts better than any energy work; energy work may bring much more energetic disturbances into your life.  Much more.  Spontaneous qigong will completely let loose a lot of things and you may not like it at all.

You can only deal with so much. 

imo you are already releasing too much stuff and need to relax and strengthen.  This karma has been there for a long time, it will take time.  So relax, and then continue.

 

You can try Shane Lear WG, or Mark Cohen. 

I also like Bruce Frantzis.  These are grounded people with grounded practice.

 

I would avoid any big energy systems.

 

 

 

Thanks Ride.

 

I did a long retreat recently and energy symptoms were minor ( after the first 10 days or so at least).  Since home I have done little sitting only 45 mins - an hour daily, however I'm much more energetic in sits and I cant stay asleep.

 

I am doing more and more retreats and each time I leave I am  really unsettled in the real world. I may need to do a couple or more 3 month retreats in a short period and just push through.

 

Since home my intuition said to get physical so in addition to my usual 3 x week weight training I've been doing heaps of physical stuff at a Yoga studio including Yin and tang yoga, stretch therapy, focused movement and fascia work and Feldenkrais.

I've also been swimming.

 

I am not sure which are the big energy systems? What about Shibashi? 

 

Also, previously you advised against WG, is Shane Lear very different?

 

Thanks again.

 

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, Ecclectica said:

I am not sure which are the big energy systems? What about Shibashi? 

 

Shibashi is not a big energy system, it was a state-created qigong practice derived from Tai Chi in the 1970s by the PRC and a doctor for public consumption. It's good for health, but around the second level taught on the DVDs and then Solar neigong taught at a third level, it's quite different. Most of what you see publicly for Shibashi is just level one and is only for health, not a deep enlightenment level practice. 

[rideforever]

Good luck to you, I am sure you will find your way.

 

@Ecclectica  Just a thought ... do you let go ?  Do you have trouble letting go ?  

You do a lot of practices which from your description seem to be mind-oriented, controlling and focussed, so it builds up a lot of energy in the head. 

The other half of practice is "surrender", "letting go downwards from the belly", "sung".  This creates a drain so the energy can descend through your body and down from the tantien into the earth ( the absolute ).

Then you have both halves working.  Presence + Surrender.

Otherwise your Presence just gets bigger until it never sleeps, it has nowhere to go.

 

How to do this practice ?  Sitting in meditation ... relax, relax, unknot unwind. (1) Then try to drop from your mind into the belly, as you exhale naturally just let your centre drop into the belly.  Like I said before this does not mean you concentrate on the belly from the head.  It means you drop.  It may take some time. (2) Then from the belly and pelvis / gwa ... rest down on the floor, rest more and more, until a descending flow is created.  The Central Channel flows downwards, the belly initiates it.   

It is all based on letting go from the belly, flowing down and letting go.  Okay that's my effort to explain it.

 

Bioenergetics / shaking are effective to release over concentration of energy but is only short term.

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by rideforever

[Ecclectica]

9 hours ago, rideforever said:

Good luck to you, I am sure you will find your way.

 

@Ecclectica  Just a thought ... do you let go ?  Do you have trouble letting go ?  

You do a lot of practices which from your description seem to be mind-oriented, controlling and focussed, so it builds up a lot of energy in the head. 

The other half of practice is "surrender", "letting go downwards from the belly", "sung".  This creates a drain so the energy can descend through your body and down from the tantien into the earth ( the absolute ).

Then you have both halves working.  Presence + Surrender.

Otherwise your Presence just gets bigger until it never sleeps, it has nowhere to go.

How to do this practice ?  Sitting in meditation ... relax, relax, unknot unwind. (1) Then try to drop from your mind into the belly, as you exhale naturally just let your centre drop into the belly.  Like I said before this does not mean you concentrate on the belly from the head.  It means you drop.  It may take some time. (2) Then from the belly and pelvis / gwa ... rest down on the floor, rest more and more, until a descending flow is created.  The Central Channel flows downwards, the belly initiates it.   

 

It is all based on letting go from the belly, flowing down and letting go.  Okay that's my effort to explain it.

 

Bioenergetics / shaking are effective to release over concentration of energy but is only short term.

 

 

Thanks Ride.

 

My main practices are:

 

1 Open Awareness 

2 Shikantaza

 

I don't have a lot of trouble letting go. I have always tended to the passive rather than active doing. I am neither controlling or focused in my approach.

 

My open awareness style is influenced by Burmese Monk Sayadaw U Tejaniya. He is all about being relaxed, not trying to create any states or make anything happen or resist what is occurring and wish it to be otherwise. Just relaxed awareness with appropriate attitude. He says 'Do not focus, control or penetrate'.

 

 

Re dropping to the belly this sounds to me like trying to cultivate a sense of awareness itself emanating from or resting in the belly. This sounds like playing around with awareness as described by Loch Kelly in his book 'Shift into freedom' based on Sutra Mahamudra. E.g. 'Unhook local awareness from thinking, let it drop through your neck into your upper body..feel local awareness knowing sensations and awareness directly from within your body'. 

 

I do a little breath concentration or Bodyscan  occasionally, but only if I'm in the mood  - I won't do it if it feels like work.

 

[Jeff]

16 hours ago, Ecclectica said:

 

 

I don't know what my blockages are.

 

I really don't know what more I can say other than what I have said. I just want an energy practise to resolve, in whatever way, my energy issues so I can meditate more effectively.

 

 

 

Your current blockage is based in the heart. At a subconscious level it would translate into issues around your fear of being loved (or loving others). Rather than flowing freely, it is more like you get stuck in a hyper receptive mode, and you hold on to the energy with it spilling over into conscious aspects of mind which create your experiences.  You need to learn to release (or transmit) the energy.  Then the next step after that will be realizing the polarities of the energy.  In more Taoist terms, you are too yin, and need to go more yang, learning to balance the flows.

 

Overall, it is all good stuff, as less than 8-10% of people can feel energy at the level that you are experiencing. Also, any accomplished teacher should be able to energetically push (or pull, depending on the perspective) you so that you can feel/notice the polarity difference and help with the rebalancing.

[rideforever]

10 hours ago, Ecclectica said:

Burmese Monk Sayadaw U Tejaniya

I was trained in the Burmese style and it is very good.  I remember being on retreats and suffering from non-sleeping as well, at that time I did not know the cause of it.  I also had many awakenings and profound experiences on retreat in this style.

 

The origin of the non-sleeping for me was over-concentration in the front of the head, it has nowhere to go, it is like pumping up a balloon in the forehead; eventually you can't sleep.

I have also noticed that long-time practitioners of this style tend to have large eyes, their awareness has been over-concentrated over the years that it affects the whole from of their heads and they start to look a little strange.

 

Awareness practice occupies the mind using the externalized attention. 

The mind being occupied becomes quiet.  Because people get this benefit they would like to use this mechanism until the end, but the approach actually needs to change at some point.

Awareness is using the same external mechanism that you would use to hunt tigers in the distance ... it is an external function.

 

It is not an internal function.

Realisation requires switching to the internal function, or intuitive recognition of self.

This is a big change in approach.

If you soften your Awareness it is better, and you might slip into the right state indirectly.

However many Awareness students spend their lives increasing the power of their "external attention" and do not switch to a more intuitive inner sense of themselves.

 

The Burmese tradition hold authenticity however it is limited.

It gives rapid relief from the minds thinking and bring peace to the mind.

Perhaps by doing Shikantaza you have realised something else needs to happen as well.

 

Consciousness exists without awareness.  It senses itself internally, intuitive recognition.not through awareness.  Consciousness is at the back of the head and is a different tradition to Awareness which is more at the front of the head and associated with the eyes.

Zen and Taoist practices also bring recogntion of the self at the level of the belly, dowwards.

 

The practice of breathing at the belly is not actually another use of externalized attention.  I tried to describe it carefully.

 

All true practices must use internal sensing of your self, intuitive inward recognition.

Awareness is a bit like hunting quite a forceful and masculine approach, but for a complete approach there must be a more feeling / softer approach, also an intuiting sense of self ... and also a not-doing approach.

It is useful to try this by splitting a 30min sitting period into (a) masculine approach hard awareness (b) feminine approach intuitive resting (c) non-doing.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by rideforever

[Earl Grey]

23 minutes ago, Wuschel said:

welcome to tdb, the land of enlightened allknowing experts and humble selfless saints, the land of 10000 opinions where every single one is correct

Very few people have the skill to back up their claims. Fewer people understand how to develop skill. Even fewer are willing to admit that what they believe is proof of skill (and subsequently their self-appointed title as masters), whether it be from charlatans or unqualified sources such as YouTube videos or pirated products, leads to self-initiation that is at best bunkum and at worst hokum. 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Wuschel said:

 

i'm not sure what i was trying to say, just want to add it wasn't in response to anyone in particular. i like what someone here wrote once, that along with gaining skill and attainment ego becomes especially sneaky. and since it's nature is unaware/darkness, we never know

In my experience, ego is there with skill, but healthy ego is key to cultivating, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater as some westerners believe when they’re writing absurd titles like “Ego is the Enemy” and not understanding absence of ego entirely is as bad as excessive ego and excessive negative ego.

 

 I also add that when you have really powerful teachings, they can humble you like crazy when you realize that some things are not meant for everyone, contrary to what Internet libertarians citing egalitarianism may believe.

 

ADDENDUM: Some who claim they have a particular skill don’t actually have any of those skills, but it doesn’t mean that those skills don’t exist.
 

One guy said he had fajin but he didn’t when I met him offline. Another guy said he had an LDT and faqi because he did group meditation and balanced his yin and yang. Another guy said he isn’t interested in learning to fight, but that’s because he can’t fight at all and revealed very quickly how he would love to learn how to fight if someone were willing to teach him, yet he’s unwilling to pay for a teacher and assumes all teachers are fakes but is always looking for the next mail order course.

 

So some critics who argue that if some bigmouths say they have skill but don’t actually have it means that it is proof that such skills don’t exist, they are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Those skills DO exist, but they are very rare and hard to achieve, not something a pirated book or a YouTube video can teach, or some westerner who went to Bali and came home not just as an author, but suddenly an expert in spiritual pilgrimages and cultural appropriation.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Ecclectica]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

Your current blockage is based in the heart. At a subconscious level it would translate into issues around your fear of being loved (or loving others). Rather than flowing freely, it is more like you get stuck in a hyper receptive mode, and you hold on to the energy with it spilling over into conscious aspects of mind which create your experiences.  You need to learn to release (or transmit) the energy.  Then the next step after that will be realizing the polarities of the energy.  In more Taoist terms, you are too yin, and need to go more yang, learning to balance the flows.

 

Overall, it is all good stuff, as less than 8-10% of people can feel energy at the level that you are experiencing. Also, any accomplished teacher should be able to energetically push (or pull, depending on the perspective) you so that you can feel/notice the polarity difference and help with the rebalancing.

 

Thanks Jeff

 

Makes Sense.

 

re:

'fear of being loved (or loving others)'

 

Although I don't consciously experience it as a fear I can admit to never having had a normal decent relationship with anyone ever - just some superficial stuff at times.

 

Naturally I failed in almost all aspects of life, work, $, women, friendships and family.

 

No pity sought! 

 

Im not in crisis, just suffering a bit.

 

I am however in very good physical condition and I have a good aptitude  for meditation and good concentration and excellent flexibility and posture.

 

My attitude is something like - 'ok be crushed almost totally by the mundane life, and don't hope for anything other than to be ok with being crushed'.

 

I found this to work ok on retreats  (I don't get distracted by my mundane world failure anymore) but it doesn't work off retreat.

 

I think what's got to/going to happen is I add to my spiritual skillset then I get to the point of total disillusionment then I go on retreat(s) indefinitely.

 

The only thing that could go wrong with this plan is having things go right for me in the mundane world.

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Ecclectica
Spelling

[Ecclectica]

5 hours ago, rideforever said:

I was trained in the Burmese style and it is very good.  I remember being on retreats and suffering from non-sleeping as well, at that time I did not know the cause of it.  I also had many awakenings and profound experiences on retreat in this style.

 

The origin of the non-sleeping for me was over-concentration in the front of the head, it has nowhere to go, it is like pumping up a balloon in the forehead; eventually you can't sleep.

I have also noticed that long-time practitioners of this style tend to have large eyes, their awareness has been over-concentrated over the years that it affects the whole from of their heads and they start to look a little strange.

 

Awareness practice occupies the mind using the externalized attention. 

The mind being occupied becomes quiet.  Because people get this benefit they would like to use this mechanism until the end, but the approach actually needs to change at some point.

Awareness is using the same external mechanism that you would use to hunt tigers in the distance ... it is an external function.

 

It is not an internal function.

Realisation requires switching to the internal function, or intuitive recognition of self.

This is a big change in approach.

If you soften your Awareness it is better, and you might slip into the right state indirectly.

However many Awareness students spend their lives increasing the power of their "external attention" and do not switch to a more intuitive inner sense of themselves.

 

The Burmese tradition hold authenticity however it is limited.

It gives rapid relief from the minds thinking and bring peace to the mind.

Perhaps by doing Shikantaza you have realised something else needs to happen as well.

 

Consciousness exists without awareness.  It senses itself internally, intuitive recognition.not through awareness.  Consciousness is at the back of the head and is a different tradition to Awareness which is more at the front of the head and associated with the eyes.

Zen and Taoist practices also bring recogntion of the self at the level of the belly, dowwards.

 

The practice of breathing at the belly is not actually another use of externalized attention.  I tried to describe it carefully.

 

All true practices must use internal sensing of your self, intuitive inward recognition.

Awareness is a bit like hunting quite a forceful and masculine approach, but for a complete approach there must be a more feeling / softer approach, also an intuiting sense of self ... and also a not-doing approach.

It is useful to try this by splitting a 30min sitting period into (a) masculine approach hard awareness (b) feminine approach intuitive resting (c) non-doing.

 

 

 

Thanks for the edited post Ride. 

 

I appreciate your efforts in trying to get through to me. I get your drift, but it's up to me to educate myself  so I can fully appreciate the your advice (and that of others). 

 

I note that I have been experimenting with split sits, usually open awareness followed by shikantaza/non-doing and I like the approach. In time I will endeavour to try what you have suggested.

 

PS

 

FWIW Kenneth Folk has a 3 step approach

 

Step 1 Standard awareness as you describe 

Step 2 Ramana Maharishi style self enquiry into 'who' is experiencing 

Step 3  Non-doing 

 

Thus seems to me a little bit similar to what you are describing.

 

 

Cheers

Edited November 5, 2019 by Ecclectica
To add another paragraph

[Jeff]

47 minutes ago, Ecclectica said:

 

Thanks Jeff

 

Makes Sense.

 

re:

'fear of being loved (or loving others)'

 

Although I don't consciously experience it as a fear I can admit to never having had a normal decent relationship with anyone ever - just some superficial stuff at times.

 

Naturally I failed in almost all aspects of life, work, $, women, friendships and family.

 

No pity sought! 

 

Im not in crisis, just suffering a bit.

 

I am however in very good physical condition and I have a good aptitude  for meditation and good concentration and excellent flexibility and posture.

 

My attitude is something like - 'ok be crushed almost totally by the mundane life, and don't hope for anything other than to be ok with being crushed'.

 

I found this to work ok on retreats  (I don't get distracted by my mundane world failure anymore) but it doesn't work off retreat.

 

I think what's got to/going to happen is I add to my spiritual skillset then I get to the point of total disillusionment then I go on retreat(s) indefinitely.

 

The only thing that could go wrong with this plan is having things go right for me in the mundane world.

 

 

Thank you for sharing, and I a glad you found some sense in my post.  I do not wish to be rude, but I do not think your approach will really work.  In essence, rather than letting go, what you are describing is avoidance. As I said earlier, you are taking things in and receiving, but not yet transmitting.  It is kind of like you deeply want to be loved, but are not loving others as you view it as an exchange (or trade) rather than a free flowing. While you have some “internal energy”, at higher levels your energy Will more connect and expands to people and the environment around you. With just advancement, the balance on inward and outward flows become critical.

 

Rather than just retreat, maybe consider engaging in the world. See the pure wonder and curiosity of a young child.  The playful abandon of a little puppy. Smile at the people around you.  Simply give a loving hug to someone who is having a bad day and needs it. Give for the joy of giving, with no expectation of getting anything back.

 

As an experiment, I am sending you a hug. If you are up for it, focus/imagine me for a moment and see if you can feel it. The flow of it.

 

Best wishes.

[Ecclectica]

12 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Thank you for sharing, and I a glad you found some sense in my post.  I do not wish to be rude, but I do not think your approach will really work.  In essence, rather than letting go, what you are describing is avoidance. As I said earlier, you are taking things in and receiving, but not yet transmitting.  It is kind of like you deeply want to be loved, but are not loving others as you view it as an exchange (or trade) rather than a free flowing. While you have some “internal energy”, at higher levels your energy Will more connect and expands to people and the environment around you. With just advancement, the balance on inward and outward flows become critical.

 

Rather than just retreat, maybe consider engaging in the world. See the pure wonder and curiosity of a young child.  The playful abandon of a little puppy. Smile at the people around you.  Simply give a loving hug to someone who is having a bad day and needs it. Give for the joy of giving, with no expectation of getting anything back.

 

As an experiment, I am sending you a hug. If you are up for it, focus/imagine me for a moment and see if you can feel it. The flow of it.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Thanks Jeff

 

I note that I do have my moments of joy and abandon - usually while listening to music, exercising or both.

 

[ilumairen]

 

22 minutes ago, Jeff said:

As an experiment, I am sending you a hug. If you are up for it, focus/imagine me for a moment and see if you can feel it. The flow of it.

 

... and here comes Jeff with his hugs  

 

@Ecclectica  It's ok to say, "no thanks." - even if part of this particular web may be the subtle play on you closing yourself off if you don't respond in kind (and (eventually and after some subtle coaching) tell him how big his boobs are).

 

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

... and here comes Jeff with his hugs  

 

@Ecclectica  It's ok to say, "no thanks." - even if part of this particular web may be the subtle play on you closing yourself off if you don't respond in kind (and (eventually and after some subtle coaching) tell him how big his boobs are).

 

 

Yes, on the “no thanks”, as the hugs can have a very definite energetic effect. But everyone with an open heart will know if it is right for them or not.  Also, it is all about energetic potential.

[dwai]

Try and find a good yang or Wu style taijiquan teacher in your area and practice diligently everyday.
 

Taijiquan will help regulate your energy, teach you to relax and release tensions. Also after you’ve learnt the form, it transforms into moving meditation. 

 

[flowing hands]

On 11/1/2019 at 3:37 PM, Ecclectica said:

Hi, I'm new here

 

I am seeking advice on selecting a method of practice.

 

I have been practicing Buddhist meditation quite seriously for a few years and have lots of internal energy. (I have spent a total of 9 months in 15 meditation retreats)

 

My internal energy has manifested in many ways including a period of three months where my body moved involuntarily every sit for 3 months (this largely ceased as a problem a couple of years ago), odd bodily sensations, feeling intensely cold and being unable to warm, intense sexual urges, orgasmic sensations while meditating, inability to sleep or stay asleep and and getting small burns on my skin while meditating (I know that one is a bit hard to believe) and other stuff at various times.

 

I have recently been doing some Shikantaza type just sitting. This often produces a period of spontaneous Qigong followed by some pleasant energetic sensations then much calmness and clarity. 

 

My question is what type of Qigong or Tai Chi should I choose?

 

I don't need to get more energy I seem to have too much already just need to continue to unblock my chakras etc - or sat least  that's my guess.

 

Is a formal method recommended or can I just work on the spontaneous Qigong and if so how would I go about that?

 

NB The spontaneous Qigong seems quite mild, controlled and brief compared to the somewhat wild extravagant movements I experienced a couple of years ago which went on for the duration of each sit.

 

I note there is teacher near me (Sydney) by the name of Simon Blow who teaches Qigong including Shibashi and Wild Goose  - he is apparently a lineage holder of the latter.

 

Anyway any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Apologies if I'm using wrong terminologies or spellings or making false assumptions - I don't know much about this stuff.

 

Cheers

 

 

I think you've got to ask yourself why you want to do this? When you know this then you can decide in which way and which teacher to seek. Random sittings and inconsistent technique and breathings will produce some odd sensations in the mind and the body. My advice is to stop what you are doing and find a competent teacher for your chosen path (quite a difficult thing in itself). 

Most energetic and physical blockages manifest from deep seated patterns of behavior, body posture,  unfulfilled emotional and psychological manifestations; locked in the mind and tissues, they can remain part of the tissues for the rest of one's life, although one may feel they have been resolved. Sometimes the best one can do is just make sure one establishes a good sense of self worth and confidence. The years of gut wrenching self torture to resolve problems may bring more unhappiness in trying to solve them, than the original problem. It is a very tricky path to follow and no one person has all the answers. 

Spirit interference can also cause many so called mental confusions and more serious physical and mental problems. Many who are unaware that they are opening themselves up by certain practices do not realise that this can be what they are inviting into themselves, unwittingly.

Edited November 6, 2019 by flowing hands
expand on point

[Ecclectica]

5 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

I think you've got to ask yourself why you want to do this? When you know this then you can decide in which way and which teacher to seek. Random sittings and inconsistent technique and breathings will produce some odd sensations in the mind and the body. My advice is to stop what you are doing and find a competent teacher for your chosen path (quite a difficult thing in itself). 

Most energetic and physical blockages manifest from deep seated patterns of behavior, body posture,  unfulfilled emotional and psychological manifestations; locked in the mind and tissues, they can remain part of the tissues for the rest of one's life, although one may feel they have been resolved. Sometimes the best one can do is just make sure one establishes a good sense of self worth and confidence. The years of gut wrenching self torture to resolve problems may bring more unhappiness in trying to solve them, than the original problem. It is a very tricky path to follow and no one person has all the answers. 

Spirit interference can also cause many so called mental confusions and more serious physical and mental problems. Many who are unaware that they are opening themselves up by certain practices do not realise that this can be what they are inviting into themselves, unwittingly.

 

WHY?

 

If you read everything I have posted it should be clear what my motivation is.

 

I am past half-way in this life. I went to University. Worked as a professional. Spent 7 years overseas in 30 countries. Learnt a foreign language. I have done stuff.

 

But ultimately as I have already said I failed in all aspects of life, always been an outsider and never bonded with anybody ever. I am disliked due to my personality.

 

So I had a major depression some time ago and eventually realised you either have to suicide or try and get out of the depression - it's just too hard existing in that state. (It took a couple of years to crawl out).

 

WHICH WAY?

 

I am committed to the Buddhist way? 

 

RANDOM SITTINGS?

 

I don't do random sittings. I have meditated almost every day for four years.

 

STOP WHAT IM DOING?

 

A few people have said stop due to risks etc. I appreciate the advice and concern but I can't stop, I'm in too deep and have no other options.

 

In any case according Buddhist Maps of the path etc (Not that I am a fan of Map oriented approaches such as espoused by Daniel Ingram) I have gone past the point of no return and into what people on the internet like to call 'the dark night of the soul' - although that's a bit too dramatic.

 

FIND A COMPETENT TEACHER? 

 

As you admit its a good idea but easier said than done. Anyway, I have been guided intermittently by a very good teacher on retreats so I feel confident that I am on the right track - albeit not an easy one.

 

Few teachers are going to devote themselves to you anyway. They either have better things to do,  don't think your worth it,  just don't like you that much, want to charge $100 hr or more, want exploit you sexually or otherwise  or come from a very different cultural perspective and won't quite get you etc etc etc

 

A teacher can't climb inside your head and see what's actually happening. Ultimately we have to be our own teachers.

 

My response probably seems a bit harsh - sorry about that. But I just want to clarify to everybody where I am coming from. I note that your advice is similar to many in others in being cautionary and I've got to say quite pessimistic 

 

 

So to be clear:

 

 

1. I'm on this ride and ain't getting off. I am happy to take risks -my choice.

 

2. My main practise is Buddist meditation. I only want an energy practise (or simple methods) to assist with managing energy or resolving blockages or whatever is the correct way to say it. 

 

3. I naively assumed different energy practises would be suitable for different purposes and accordingly people would recommend an appropriate method for my situation ie I already have the energy so I don't need to waste time trying to generate it - I've just got to deal with it. (I realise this assumption is probably wrong-headed and due to my ignorance of these matters).

 

But I am disappointed and surprised few people have suggested specific methods and books (I only recall one book suggestion). Once again I am not criticising posters just feeling a little perplexed. 

 

Shouldn't choosing a method be a bit more like walking into the pharmacy, describing my symptoms and being given a choice of medications.

 

If this forum is the pharmacy and you guys are the pharmacists and I have just said I have constipation, I still don't know if I should treat it with aspirin, condoms or band aids.

 

Ok, that's probably not the best analogy but you get my drift?

 

Anyway, just being real honest, clarifying stuff and trying to  illicit some specific advice. 

 

 

PS Don't advise me to change my personality.   

 

I once saw a psychologist in the midst of my major depression (for which I was voluntarily hospitalised for a period of 10 days at one stage) 

 

She told me 'Just stop being an asshole and stop feeling sorry for yourself'.

 

Things are never that simple. 

 

Cheers

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Ecclectica

[Ecclectica]

14 hours ago, dwai said:

Try and find a good yang or Wu style taijiquan teacher in your area and practice diligently everyday.
 

Taijiquan will help regulate your energy, teach you to relax and release tensions. Also after you’ve learnt the form, it transforms into moving meditation. 

 

 

Thanks dwai

 

Can't complain about your advice not being specific.

 

I had been wondering about Qiging vs Tai chi and somehow thought Qigong was better or more appropriate for me. I don't really have any proper basis for that assumption.

 

Is there is any reason why you recommend those methods over others and Tai Chi over Qiging?

 

From a practical point of view

 maybe it's easier to find a good Tai Chi teacher than Qiging teacher - it seems more popular. 

 

Also, I would prefer a method that is taught in a consistent fashion, not one that different teachers teach differently or have lots of variations.

 

Cheers

 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Ecclectica said:

Few teachers are going to devote themselves to you anyway. They either have better things to do,  don't think your worth it,  just don't like you that much, want to charge $100 hr or more, want exploit you sexually or otherwise  or come from a very different cultural perspective and won't quite get you etc etc etc

 

 

A lot of this is true, but this is not the default for teachers. Real and great teachers are rare, but unfortunately, they do command a premium in value, which either you see or you don't, and their teachings are priceless or beyond what anyone can truly give to reflect that value. My five teachers are like that and their attitudes are "Either you commit fully or you don't" because even if you do have the finances as one millionaire trust fund child did, he wasn't committed, so his money was returned as he was more of a chore to deal with than it was worth. 

 

As someone who has also lived in multiple countries (13), I can appreciate your 30 countries perspective, but that soft skill really is tested when learning due to the culture of lineage.

 

1 hour ago, Ecclectica said:

But I am disappointed and surprised few people have suggested specific methods and books (I only recall one book suggestion). Once again I am not criticising posters just feeling a little perplexed. 

 

I recommended Dolic because he is in Sydney and is a wonderful human being besides being a teacher who teaches more than qigong and doesn't charge for what aren't qigong techniques or martial training. He does Tai Chi and Bagua on top of Shaolin Long Fist, and can recommend people as well if you're really interested in something he doesn't teach.

 

My other teachers are not in Australia, but happily teach online provided you understand the limitations of learning online and have their own recommended reading. I can't give you recommended readings on techniques because a lot of books out there are incomplete or inadequate.

 

1 hour ago, Ecclectica said:

Shouldn't choosing a method be a bit more like walking into the pharmacy, describing my symptoms and being given a choice of medications.

 

If this forum is the pharmacy and you guys are the pharmacists and I have just said I have constipation, I still don't know if I should treat it with aspirin, condoms or band aids.

 

Ok, that's probably not the best analogy but you get my drift?

 

Consult a TCM doctor or Ayurveda doctor. For you, I actually would recommend Eric Isen at www.ayurvedicintuitive.com who can actually diagnose which is a good system to practice, whether it is Flying Phoenix or Bagua or Spontaneous Five Animals. 

 

1 hour ago, Ecclectica said:

She told me 'Just stop being an asshole and stop feeling sorry for yourself'.

 

 

Reminds me of a Haruki Murakami quote from Norwegian Wood: "Don't feel sorry for yourself--only assholes feel sorry for themselves." 

 

1 hour ago, Ecclectica said:

Things are never that simple. 

 

 

Oversimplification risks becoming trivialization, sadly it's common when communicating online as there are nuances you can't pick up from words on a screen. 

[dwai]

13 minutes ago, Ecclectica said:

 

Thanks dwai

 

Can't complain about your advice not being specific.

 

I had been wondering about Qiging vs Tai chi and somehow thought Qigong was better or more appropriate for me. I don't really have any proper basis for that assumption.

 

Is there is any reason why you recommend those methods over others and Tai Chi over Qiging?

 

From a practical point of view

 maybe it's easier to find a good Tai Chi teacher than Qiging teacher - it seems more popular. 

 

Also, I would prefer a method that is taught in a consistent fashion, not one that different teachers teach differently or have lots of variations.

 

Cheers

 

Taijiquan is a form of qigong. You might find people wax eloquent about how qigong is different from taijiquan but I don’t subscribe to that perspective. 
 

As you noted, taijiquan is more easily accessible and it’s easy enough to learn the yang or Wu style forms. 
 

The real fun starts after you’ve learnt the form, and start working on single form practice - like isolating a particular  part of the long form, sort of like how one would focus on specific drills in the gym (only using the gym analogy as an example). That’s when the serious neigong (inner work) starts in taijiquan. Your energy is then amped, refined and converted to spirit and emptiness.

 

since you mention Sydney, I happen to know a good taiji guy in Sydney (not sure about suburb/neighborhood etc) - Dr. John Fung - https://practicaldentistry.com.au/dr-john-fung/

 

he’s a FB friend of mine and a good taiji person. Might be worth a shot checking him out  

 

good luck 👍🏾 

 

 

 

 

[Ecclectica]

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

A lot of this is true, but this is not the default for teachers. Real and great teachers are rare, but unfortunately, they do command a premium in value, which either you see or you don't, and their teachings are priceless or beyond what anyone can truly give to reflect that value. My five teachers are like that and their attitudes are "Either you commit fully or you don't" because even if you do have the finances as one millionaire trust fund child did, he wasn't committed, so his money was returned as he was more of a chore to deal with than it was worth. 

 

As someone who has also lived in multiple countries (13), I can appreciate your 30 countries perspective, but that soft skill really is tested when learning due to the culture of lineage.

 

 

I recommended Dolic because he is in Sydney and is a wonderful human being besides being a teacher who teaches more than qigong and doesn't charge for what aren't qigong techniques or martial training. He does Tai Chi and Bagua on top of Shaolin Long Fist, and can recommend people as well if you're really interested in something he doesn't teach.

 

My other teachers are not in Australia, but happily teach online provided you understand the limitations of learning online and have their own recommended reading. I can't give you recommended readings on techniques because a lot of books out there are incomplete or inadequate.

 

 

Consult a TCM doctor or Ayurveda doctor. For you, I actually would recommend Eric Isen at www.ayurvedicintuitive.com who can actually diagnose which is a good system to practice, whether it is Flying Phoenix or Bagua or Spontaneous Five Animals. 

 

 

Reminds me of a Haruki Murakami quote from Norwegian Wood: "Don't feel sorry for yourself--only assholes feel sorry for themselves." 

 

 

Oversimplification risks becoming trivialization, sadly it's common when communicating online as there are nuances you can't pick up from words on a screen. 

 

 

Thanks Earl

 

I phoned John Dolic last night. I will go and see him sometime in the near future and see what he says.

 

Thanks for the further recommendations too. Seems like a sensible way to proceed

 

 

Re the internet

 

I am learning a lot here from the nature of all posts regardless of whether they are what I want or expected to hear. The internet is rather murky. Energy practise is murky territory too.

 

I am trying to do things in a logical way by choosing carefully what is an appropriate method for me.

 

Spiritual practice involves so much effort and suffering and I understand many people spend years and thousands of hours or even a lifetime getting nowhere.

 

Knowing this I wouldn't have the motivation to put much effort into an energy practise unless I had done my due diligence beforehand.

 

Of course I am limited by my general lack of knowledge in this area, it is my responsibility to educate myself.

 

 

Cheers

[Ecclectica]

36 minutes ago, dwai said:

Taijiquan is a form of qigong. You might find people wax eloquent about how qigong is different from taijiquan but I don’t subscribe to that perspective. 
 

As you noted, taijiquan is more easily accessible and it’s easy enough to learn the yang or Wu style forms. 
 

The real fun starts after you’ve learnt the form, and start working on single form practice - like isolating a particular  part of the long form, sort of like how one would focus on specific drills in the gym (only using the gym analogy as an example). That’s when the serious neigong (inner work) starts in taijiquan. Your energy is then amped, refined and converted to spirit and emptiness.

 

since you mention Sydney, I happen to know a good taiji guy in Sydney (not sure about suburb/neighborhood etc) - Dr. John Fung - https://practicaldentistry.com.au/dr-john-fung/

 

he’s a FB friend of mine and a good taiji person. Might be worth a shot checking him out  

 

good luck 👍🏾 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks dwai

 

Very Interesting to hear about isolating parts and Neigong etc

 

Also thanks for the reference toJohn Fung  - he seems like a very accomplished guy - he is not too far from me - I will Investigate further.

 

Im glad you suggested TaiChi because it got me thinking about pragmatic considerations as opposed to the best method for me.

 

TaiChi =

more popular

more competent teachers 

more cost effective classes

etc

 

Cheers

 

 

[Earl Grey]

29 minutes ago, Ecclectica said:

 

Thanks dwai

 

Very Interesting to hear about isolating parts and Neigong etc

 

Also thanks for the reference toJohn Fung  - he seems like a very accomplished guy - he is not too far from me - I will Investigate further.

 

Im glad you suggested TaiChi because it got me thinking about pragmatic considerations as opposed to the best method for me.

 

TaiChi =

more popular

more competent teachers 

more cost effective classes

etc

 

Cheers

 

 

I would not say more popular means more competent teachers, as many of them don’t actually have skill, but know park Tai Chi for elders. It is a specialized practice that with the best teachers is a martial, medical, and meditative practice that can kill, heal greatly and even help significantly with issues like Parkinson’s, and bring you to a unique meditative state of awareness.

 

More popular doesn’t mean more quality, lest we say that applies to McDonald’s and the perfection of the cheeseburger... Look up Jake Mace to see what popular art and terrible quality teaching means.

 

You can’t go wrong with dwai and his recommendations though, so likely he saved you time finding a good Tai Chi teacher in your area.