Do What Thou Wilt

[Apech]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

 

My friend. Why does being a gangster only mean physical violence. Being a gangster is a mentality. 'No Earl..., it doesn't only mean you get beat up or dealing drugs.'

 

Wait why are you proud you survived gang violence? And on both sides? Sorry to hear honestly. Don't mean ya gotta be a gansta partna.

 

MY FRIEND. Why does you stating helping them reintegrate into society mean it's a false comparison . Omg dude i'm honestly laughing. No more of this.

 

Is it really that hard? it's in the damn word lmao. "GANG"ster

 

see, the difference is i feel slightly bad after all these interactions. You guys feed off of it like Egotesticle vampires.

 

Was today's conversation "authoritative" enough for you? Since that's what you believe i lacked.

 

And yet i continue to prove my power doesn't come from authority, it comes from listening with something you don't seem to be working on.

 

 

 

If there were reason for these miseries, then into limits could I bind my woes.

If the winds rages, doth not the sea wax mad, threat'ning the welkin with its big-swoll'n face?

And wilt though have a reason for this coil?

I am the sea.

Hark how her sighs doth blow.

She is the weeping welkin, I the earth.

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Zork said:

If the event in Frabato are true then i believe you. Nazis seem to have hunted down hermetics both to eradicate them and gain their occult knowledge.

 

I think it was more 'eliminate the rivals ' .   The Nazis had plenty of  their  own sources for occult 'knowledge ' .

 

See    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariosophy

[welkin]

3 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

I smell a poser who thinks he’s OG. When you’ve had your ass kicked a few times or actually spent time in prison talking with other convicts (god forbid you go there as a convict yourself...), you’re going to find that that smug certainty isn’t going to survive the dance of reality.

 

...next thing you know, Welkin is going to talk about how he knows more about the world than those who not only travel to those places but live there and speak the local language, if his reasoning that his intuition is enough to give him authority to speak about things he hasn’t read or experienced...

 

you're totally right. i'm sorry. g2g now

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, welkin said:

You know the feeling of excitement the last 10 days before summer vacation? That's how I feel.

 

School vacation ?

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, welkin said:

 

Holy shit did you mean this by my lesson? I learned this when i was 15. And damnit, it took me 13 years to realize it was wrong.

please tell me that's not the lesson.

 

 

Its not the lesson.

[welkin]

Sorry, all i wanted to do was help. I guess something i felt as an attack got the better of me, and it derailed the thread. I will try to speak directly to the ideas discussed without any judgments.

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, welkin said:

Something tells me i won't get kicked out, because it was equal and fair on both ends. If minions can come trash ideas. Why can't i defend the OPs ideas? I'm not even from thelema or anything lmao.

 

Also why ya'll acting like gangsters. It looks silly. Do you even know why gangs were formed in the first place? lol

 

 

 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

Of course there isn't,  and initiation into the book wasn't even mentioned by the individual you misquoted.

 

'Initiation into a book'       . Whatever that means  ?

 

This type of person nearly always make up their own quotes about what was said and never seems to be able to use the quote function to accurately show the others comments .

 

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

No, it doesn't. 

 

 

No, they don't. Until actualization occurs we're running through trained programming - perhaps with the illusion we're acting out our own will. 

 

 

This reads in a rather adolescent manner, and I'd honestly like to see and engage in deeper exploration. 

 

Well, now that Mskied is gone, we could use this thread for that .

 

And keep Welkin on as occasional entertainment .

[Nungali]

20 minutes ago, welkin said:

Sorry, all i wanted to do was help. I guess something i felt as an attack got the better of me, and it derailed the thread. I will try to speak directly to the ideas discussed without any judgments.

 

So  ....

 

Have you learned your lesson  NOW  ? 

[ralis]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

Sorry, all i wanted to do was help. I guess something i felt as an attack got the better of me, and it derailed the thread. I will try to speak directly to the ideas discussed without any judgments.

Help in what way? Did you stop and think to inquire if anyone needs your help here?

 

I usually hesitate to post songs here given that the lyrics may be misunderstood. But, this piece by Lera Lynn has much depth. BTW I think I saw her in the Santa Fe WholeFoods this summer. 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by ralis

[Earl Grey]

12 hours ago, welkin said:

 

you're totally right. i'm sorry. g2g now

 

12 hours ago, welkin said:

Sorry, all i wanted to do was help. I guess something i felt as an attack got the better of me, and it derailed the thread. I will try to speak directly to the ideas discussed without any judgments.

At the risk of you thinking this is an attack (it’s not), I will share that based on prior personal experience with you, this explosion of anger and self-righteous declaration of self-perceived power and importance that declines as quickly as it happens, it may be better for you to seek professional mental health support rather than pursuing power and metaphysical knowledge, as the latter two will only worsen pre-existing mental and emotional sensitivity states.

 

We have seen this not just in you, by the way, but in two individuals who were banned (allinone and Alethea) exhibited the exact same behavior pattern. You won’t have the same admin who are very aggressive in enforcing the rules of decorum here, but you do have reality and life to demonstrate whether you are aware or not the consequences of such behavior, which, if you are aware of, is a bigger punishment than for those who are unaware. And you’ve claimed you are aware when alluding to people who don’t learn across multiple lifetimes, but it’s unclear if you’re merely parroting this or truly understand.

 

This response is not an act of aggression, but a caution from someone who has seen the lust for power through esoteric means and mental health issues both separately and together. Together, they are a bad combination for the self-initiated (this goes for the OP and a small percentage of people drawn to this forum). 
 

I will recommend to you and many individuals to pursue soul work rather than spirit work: spirit work is something anyone can do as they play with energies and feel high, but soul work asks you to go into the depths of yourself. Perhaps a Jungian psychologist is best recommended for you. Soul work does not require esoteric knowledge, but it will give you the tools you need often far more useful than energy addiction, and should spirit work still attract you, you will have a better mental and emotional foundation to pursue with maturity, integrity, and without hubris or susceptibility to delusions of grandeur.

 

As a postscript for something I should have mentioned earlier, if you're so confident about looking up my personal information and openly declaring you've "seen my face and my eyes" after exchanging e-mails with one another, I wonder how you would feel if your name and face were accessible to all of us right now without your permission, as you never had mine. Reciprocity, dear boy. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, ralis said:

Help in what way? Did you stop and think to inquire if anyone needs your help here?

 

I usually hesitate to post songs here given that the lyrics may be misunderstood. But, this piece by Lera Lynn has much depth. BTW I think I saw her in the Santa Fe WholeFoods this summer. 

 

 

This is a more general response to the notion of offering help but not considering if either the help is needed or wanted and if the potential helper is qualified to best help.

 

I once found three kittens whose mother was hit by a car and a friend took them, her very first time caring for animals. Within several days, they died. It dawned upon me that she was giving cow’s milk from the market, not formula for kittens one month or younger, not only bad for them, but it also dehydrated them. Was her heart in the right place? Yes. Was her head in the right place? Debatable.

 

Another story: a Christian youth group in my university campus brought in homeless people and swiped their meal cards to feed them and then brought them into the dorms to shower. It ended up being a fiasco because some of them started stealing from other rooms and one of them had severe mental health issues that caused him to threaten a group of Asian kids because he suddenly had a flashback to ‘Nam 75. 
 

My last comment is that helping assumes someone is helpless, fixing assumes something is broken, but serving is an act of fairness because you meet halfway, as one can’t serve without an invite and a purpose, clearly stated.

[welkin]

On 11/16/2019 at 10:34 PM, Nungali said:

You have not paid attention to your lessons , have you ?

 

 

Things take time sometimes. And can heal all. Why's that the way or i guess. only way?

Edited November 18, 2019 by welkin

[ilumairen]

 

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

Well, now that Mskied is gone, we could use this thread for that .

 

Hmm

 

What would you consider a (or the) basic prerequisite(s) for understanding the phrase used as the title of this thread (as it is set forth in the Book of the Law)?

 

[Apech]

22 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

Hmm

 

What would you consider a (or the) basic prerequisite(s) for understanding the phrase used as the title of this thread (as it is set forth in the Book of the Law)?

 

 

Love is the law, love under will.

[ilumairen]

3 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Love is the law, love under will.

 

And would you like to elaborate a bit on this? 

[Apech]

13 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

And would you like to elaborate a bit on this? 

 

Sure.

 

Will derives from or is synonymous with consciousness - or you could say its the activity of the buddha-nature or mind if you like.  In other words it is completely free and unbound by like/dislike and other evaluations based on need and greed etc.  It freely chooses what to place value in - what state of being to identify with or not.  As such its only 'law' in the sense of necessary consequence of its own nature is to do what is willed ('do what thou wilt').  But in 'doing', acting, it (or you) make a commitment to one action or set of actions over others.  In other words you freely respond to each situation without pre-determined limits but your responses are embodied in specific acts.  But in doing so, in acting from free consciousness or the natural state completely free of any self determined appetite, it (or you) act(s) spontaneously for what ever benefits self and others - or to put it the other way round your actions automatically are of benefit - to act for the benefit (which means the development of higher awareness and more whole being) is love.  Not romantic love but spiritual love.  So doing what thou wilt in a true sense is to manifest love.  So the law of will is to love.

 

Or that's how I understand it anyway.

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

Hmm

 

What would you consider a (or the) basic prerequisite(s) for understanding the phrase used as the title of this thread (as it is set forth in the Book of the Law)?

 

 

 

Not sure I understand your last part , but if I do ;   I wouldnt recommend attempting  to understanding anything 'as it is set forth in the Book of the Law' without supplementary reading, commentary and explaining by the author that developed the system and wrote about it .

 

The  Book of the Law , taken by itself is notoriously cryptic, troublesome, all over the place , seemingly clear in some parts and quite surreal in others .

 

Aside from that, the key issue seems to be understand what Crowley meant by use of the term 'True Will' . The explanations and  supplementary material being in other sources aside from The Book of the Law.

[Nungali]

One aspect of True Will that Crowley focused on a lot  could be put in other terms like ' life  calling' / 'career.   By this I dont mean the usual definition, although it applies for some ' .    Have you even met someone (or experienced it yourself ) that has had a job , or involved in an activity that they absolutely love doing and are attracted to, maybe they are a 'natural' at it and  can do it very well and effortlessly, it might even generate a feeling of happiness fulfilment and satisfaction in them,  It might have also been indicated, in all sorts of ways magical  and mundane in their past .

 

It can be seen as one's life mission or calling, sometimes it seems that we 'came here with it' / had it before ?   Crowley makes the point that what it actually is does not matter . It might be being a prince or a pauper or a mother or a helicopter engineer , the deets aren't that important . What is important ( for a healthy and happy psyche ) is the fulfilling of that True Will .

 

Conversely if one is in a situation where their 'work is not their will' (True Will) then the opposite may manifest ; de energised, unhappy, feeling unfulfilled and their work is a rather pointless  drudge only done to bring in money .  Its tied in with creative expression, imagination and fulfilment of 'soul desires '   ( under my definition of soul , that is ) .

 

To go out an a limb, I tie it in with my anthropological observations about society culture development and initiation . When a culture degrades an / or people become estranged from their True Wills .... a 'malaise' sets in, soon followed by degradation, then all sorts of problems arise  usually centred on the  problems  polarised between depression and selfishness .

 

.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Nungali

[manitou]

So then True Will would not be present within the machinery of wu wei?

[Nungali]

The 'machinery' of wu wei ?      
 

 

[Earl Grey]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

t can be seen as one's life mission or calling, sometimes it seems that we 'came here with it' / had it before ?   Crowley makes the point that what it actually is does not matter . It might be being a prince or a pauper or a mother or a helicopter engineer , the deets aren't that important . What is important ( for a healthy and happy psyche ) is the fulfilling of that True Will .

 

Conversely if one is in a situation where their 'work is not their will' (True Will) then the opposite may manifest ; de energised, unhappy, feeling unfulfilled and their work is a rather pointless  drudge only done to bring in money .  Its tied in with creative expression, imagination and fulfilment of 'soul desires '   ( under my definition of soul , that is ) .

 

Can this be interpreted as parallel to Joseph Campbell's "follow your bliss" or the derivatives of it today that the current Y and Z generations talk about with doing the work that fulfills their passion? 

 

Also, is there the influence of an element of Max Weber's "inner calling" that he writes about in The Protestant Work Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism? 

[Nungali]

I'd say that both of those are in some way parts of it . But just going on your descriptions above .  I am not familiar with Weber .

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

I'd say that both of those are in some way parts of it . But just going on your descriptions above .  I am not familiar with Weber .

 

Weber is one of the three foundational philosophers of sociology, along with Marx and Durkheim--had to read a bit of those three in uni, so we went through Das Kapital and the professor revealed to us how in the context of sociological sciences, Marx was an optimist and Weber posited a lot more cynicism about capitalism. Another translation would be "inner loneliness" and referenced the primarily Calvinist view that man was longing for God and serving with purpose, but as seen in the Wiki article:

 

Quote

It is particularly advantageous in technical occupations for workers to be extremely devoted to their craft. To view the craft as an end in itself, or as a "calling" would serve this need well. This attitude is well-noted in certain classes which have endured religious education, especially of a Pietist background.^[6]:17

 

As for Campbell, this article from the Huffington Post is one of the more recent summaries in popular times:

 

Quote

Was Campbell saying that I could follow a career path that would make me extremely happy -- one that brings joy and a smile to my face -- and that doors would open effortlessly for me, providing me with the means to live well? But what would my parents think? I became a marketing major because my dad was my hero and made a great living as a VP in a major ad agency. It was then that I realized I was following my dad's path rather than my own. Why? Because, not only did I want to honor him (and make the kind of money he was making), I wanted to be him. The realization I had was that, in the process, I was really dishonoring myself. This was the first of what would become a series of re-defining moments in my life as I set out on the path that Campbell refers to as "the hero's journey."

 

This "reality check" became a re-defining moment because I knew in my heart that my bliss would never be found in studying economics and market trends, or selling someone else's ideas and products; as it would turn out, my bliss would be found on an entirely different path. I began to focus on where my passion was and one day, right there on campus, a new door opened for me. While sitting on the grass, playing guitar and singing with my friends, it became obvious where I would find my happiness -- it was right there in front of me: For three years I had been hanging out with people who were following their bliss... as music majors. In short, after going the distance for three years of college as a marketing major I changed my major to music and never looked back. I had found my bliss. As one door closed another door had opened, and in the process, I began to understand what Joseph Campbell meant by "bliss."

 

Campbell is often quoted by Millennials and Edgers pursuing passion projects and work in order to, well, avoid work, which is actually only part of what Campbell meant for following one's bliss. 

 

In relation to Crowley and Will, what is the practical difference then based on what I'm quoting here (however brief and hopefully not inaccurate)?

[manitou]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

The 'machinery' of wu wei ?      
 

 

 

 

LOL.  Perhaps a bad choice of words.  I withdraw the question because after re-reading the last several posts, I realize I'm talking about apples vs. oranges.

 

Old lady mulligan, please 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by manitou
Because I'm an idiot