Do What Thou Wilt

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

I think it starts with being one with your actions. Letting go of the doubts that often hold us back. To do what you do.

 

Which is another interpretation of "do what thou wilt." 😊

 

   'Just doing it'  is a good way to find out .   You might find a new course of action or a decision is or is not your True Will , but at least you find out, you are not just  left there wondering about it in a situation that you are not happy with .

 

of course, a certain reign on ' reckless behaviour'  might be considered    .

[helpfuldemon]

37 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Being a mother .

 

Does that surprise you ?

 

Or a helicopter engineer , or  painter ,  or  simply a 'wanderer' ... a 'traveller in time and space ' , a nurse, a ..... bodhisattva . Or conversely, a new born spirit that desires to learn and grow .

 

But you know all this ... as you have read all of Crowley's works ... as you previously assured me .

 

 

 

 

 

 

The True Will .    

 

You seem to miss the point I am trying to make.  You take the perspective that True Will is to become something, and I say it is to do something, for certainly, "Do What Thou Wilt" is the credo that is under investigation.  Your take on things is that Crowley is saying if you find yourself, you can do no wrong, and therefor you are free to do what you will, because it is morally and personally correct for you.  I am arguing the particulars of what we can do, should or should not do.  But then, this would lead to creating restrictions, and that isn't what Crowley wanted, for it would inhibit Will.  I guess I come from a different school.  

[helpfuldemon]

48 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

   'Just doing it'  is a good way to find out .   You might find a new course of action or a decision is or is not your True Will , but at least you find out, you are not just  left there wondering about it in a situation that you are not happy with .

 

of course, a certain reign on ' reckless behaviour'  might be considered    .

This sounds an AWFUL LOT like an exercise in free will

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah .  Anyway ... you can field these ones  .   I am finding this all rather cyclic ;  certain people seem to come to a realisation but then a week later they are back on the same track they where before their 'realisation'

 

< insert dog chaising tail gif here >

You like to ignore the obvious, because your bias and supposed expertise won't let you see the bigger picture of what liberty allows us.  

[helpfuldemon]

edit

Edited August 21, 2022 by helpfuldemon

[Bindi]

Am I correct in thinking that @Nungali and @Michael Sternbach are actually positive about Aleister Crowley and value what he has written? I haven’t read Crowley’s writing, but watching this video I can’t see that anything true or valuable could have come from him. Is the documentary wrong, or am I missing some occult secret that allows Crowley to be anything other than horrifying? 
 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

You seem to miss the point I am trying to make.  You take the perspective that True Will is to become something, and I say it is to do something

 

The becoming part is 'finding' your True Will and 'becoming' the person your True Wil directs .  The doing is  that person who has found or 'become' ( a mode of living , a way, a calling, a 'career', your 'contribution to society' ) is the 'becoming something' what they do is their .... doing . s .

 

First , find your true will, then do it .   Its a two stage process, Crowley talked about the finding and doing of it a lot , in various place

 

 

 

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

, for certainly, "Do What Thou Wilt" is the credo that is under investigation. 

 

 

Glad you finally agree that it is what is under investigation and not desires and  free will and wants and all the other things you previously claimed it to be .

 

Did you know consistency is one of the four main principles in clear communication ( and also dog and horse training and brining up children ) ? 

 

 

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

Your take on things is that Crowley is saying if you find yourself, you can do no wrong, and therefor you are free to do what you will, because it is morally and personally correct for you. 

 

No . that is not my take at all !   Did you think I was saying that somewhere ? No wonder  'I " confuse you . I dont think anything like that .

 

More like , my take is  Crowley is urging us to  seek and do our True Will and by that I mean ALL the lengthy explanations and research I have offered here on that subject , including its concept roots in ancient Zoroastrianism ... I even tracked it through  hermetic works to his own curriculum !   He certainly says people will do wrong  ... even  if they 'find themselves ' , which he isnt advocating ... thats a very simplistic and wrong terminology to describe it .   therefore, your above therefore is cancelled out  I am not and Crowley never said I was free to do my will , he postulated a society with people doing their True Will would need less rules and have less infractions , but he also certainly postulates as well, the issues. complexities and philosophies , in such a society, regarding crime and punishments , so how can everythng be allowed by him in his speculations if he talks about crimes and punishments ?

 

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I am arguing the particulars of what we can do, should or should not do.  But then, this would lead to creating restrictions, and that isn't what Crowley wanted, for it would inhibit Will.  I guess I come from a different school.  

 

 

No,  he is talking about restrictions of  expressing True Will .... stuff like , little Stevie wanted and   indicated  ( himself and by other signs ) he always wanted to be an  ' animal  handler ' .  But his father insisted he was going to be a doctor . 

 

The typical uneducated and uninvolved view is ; 'you are annoying me, I want to smash  your face in , I am not allowed to , help help my 'will' is being restricted "

 

Exaggerated ?  Well, thats pretty much the dynamic that has been playing out in this thread  since 2019  .

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

This sounds an AWFUL LOT like an exercise in free will

 

Well of course ! One needs  to choose with free will to try and find their True Will , one needs to select a specific direction to get to any destination ....  one cant say ... "Thats not the destination, thats just someone trying to find the destination ."

 

Thats right , and thats exactly what I was talking about  .

 

Why would I suggest an exercise in trying to find your True Will or even what job you might 'like' was the True Will or the job itself ? 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

You like to ignore the obvious, because your bias and supposed expertise won't let you see the bigger picture of what liberty allows us.  

 

Au contra-ire . YOU have been ignoring the obvious, shifting opinions, moving goal posts, claiming a clearly defined term means other things that YOU want them to mean , its clear you have great mental confusion and troubles, you lament and rage about that . You claim to have read all of Crowley's books but seem surprisingly ignorant of his explanations for the most popular of his phrases .

My expertise (  I actually would not call it that, its  academic and practical experience - I know people get angry at that as they dont have it themselves and want to speak with authority and be heard that way , on subjects they have little familiarity with - and all of this is a 'dynamic' certain people have all over this site, on many subjects .

 

If anything I am seeing the BIGGEST picture here , your the one that is narrowing a vast  and spiritual (and ancient, by the way ) concept down to will and want and desires .

 

I know full well what greater liberty causes ,  thats a basic training nodule of initiation and one of the first cautions !

[Nungali]

42 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Am I correct in thinking that @Nungali and @Michael Sternbach are actually positive about Aleister Crowley and value what he has written? I haven’t read Crowley’s writing, but watching this video I can’t see that anything true or valuable could have come from him. Is the documentary wrong, or am I missing some occult secret that allows Crowley to be anything other than horrifying? 
 

 

 

Bindi. I am sure you realise  that by not going on reading any books, or direct teachings from original source and relying on one internet youtube  is not the way to go .

 

As far as supporting Crowley or not, thats not really the issue here , its a bout the thread title and that concept . Unfortunately everyone seems to think its an original Crowley concept, hence that focus .

 

I'd rather stay on the topic of the principle rather than start watching  youtubes  about Crowley and commenting on their veracity or not .

 

I mean, look what the uneducated have been saying here !  I cant imagine the rubbish that appears on any youtube about it .

 

if it makes people happy, then yes, you can see him as  crazed homosexual drug taking satanic baby eater ..... whatever .    And I openly admit that most of that was not only his fault himself, but he actually cultivated it  .... probably to keep people that are thinking like that away from him   .

 

The man's goods and bads,  valuable teachings and quackery should be the subject for a different thread , here it is the principle of True Will  and  some are having enough trouble with  that  alone already .

 

I will let Michael speak for himself  as he might have different ideas than me   (   )  and he may well be a  bad, nasty , homo, drug taking  Satanist baby eater himself . 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Nungali

[Nungali]

I wasnt going to but I did try to watch that video, I lasted about 15 seconds until the absolutely WRONG assertions started.  I'm not sitting thorough an hour of that !

 

Bindy, if you have specific questions I would be happy to answer in another thread  about that .

Edited August 21, 2022 by Nungali

[Bindi]

11 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Bindi. I am sure you realise  that by not going on reading any books, or direct teachings from original source and relying on one internet youtube  is not the way to go .

 

As far as supporting Crowley or not, thats not really the issue here , its a bout the thread title and that concept . Unfortunately everyone seems to think its an original Crowley concept, hence that focus .

 

 

I found “Love and do what thou wilt” in the writings of Saint Augustine, from his Seventh Homily on the Letter of John:

 

“The deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers: some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; howbeit they are done for discipline at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee: Love and do what thou wilt. 
 

The only other reference I could find to Crowleys shortened version was from the French author Rabelais who wrote in a fictional work  "fay çe que vouldras", French for "do what you will." Are there earlier references that you know of to “Do what you will” specifically? 
 

I get that you’re adding a second sentence that includes the word love to orient the first, also from Crowley as far as I can tell, but the whole thing doesn’t seem to have brought anything positive to the life of Crowley himself who lived out this version of the maxim. 
 

I guess if the whole was divorced from Crowley I can see why you’d take it positively, perhaps the issue is can it actually be divorced from Crowley in the form it’s been presented by you? 
 

I could do more research, but I suspect Crowley will always come out as a shady character. 

 

11 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

I'd rather stay on the topic of the principle rather than start watching  youtubes  about Crowley and commenting on their veracity or not .

 

I mean, look what the uneducated have been saying here !  I cant imagine the rubbish that appears on any youtube about it .

 

if it makes people happy, then yes, you can see him as  crazed homosexual drug taking satanic baby eater ..... whatever .    And I openly admit that most of that was not only his fault himself, but he actually cultivated it  .... probably to keep people that are thinking like that away from him   .

 

The man's goods and bads,  valuable teachings and quackery should be the subject for a different thread , here it is the principle of True Will  and  some are having enough trouble with  that  alone already .

 

I will let Michael speak for himself  as he might have different ideas than me   (   )  and he may well be a  bad, nasty , homo, drug taking  Satanist baby eater himself . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity.

 

Many years ago I ran a workshop to see the personal will and all the participants failed.  One woman was determined and meditated for hours each night.  She wrote me that 6 days later at 2am she finally saw her personal will

 

She said that everything charitable she had ever done was to make herself feel better.

[Bindi]

13 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Many years ago I ran a workshop to see the personal will and all the participants failed.  One woman was determined and meditated for hours each night.  She wrote me that 6 days later at 2am she finally saw her personal will

 

She said that everything charitable she had ever done was to make herself feel better.

I’m not a fan of good works myself, far too easy for exactly this ^ to be the driving force. 

[Nungali]

If you haven't read through this thread you will have missed a lot .

 

 

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

 

I found “Love and do what thou wilt” in the writings of Saint Augustine, from his Seventh Homily on the Letter of John:

 

“The deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers: some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; howbeit they are done for discipline at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee: Love and do what thou wilt. 

 

Yes, that is one 'precursor' , mostly due to the references about love and will .

 

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

 

The only other reference I could find to Crowleys shortened version was from the French author Rabelais who wrote in a fictional work  "fay çe que vouldras", French for "do what you will." Are there earlier references that you know of to “Do what you will” specifically? 

 

Not literally but one must understand what he MEANT by those terms, and within that understanding of the principle (not the words ) it exists in the earliest  civilisations and  spiritual teachings, mostly as I noted and posted about in this thread and elsewhere in the concept of Avestan Khvarinah , which  appears in earlier posts here . Its all laid out in the  earlier post .

 

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

I get that you’re adding a second sentence that includes the word love to orient the first, also from Crowley as far as I can tell, but the whole thing doesn’t seem to have brought anything positive to the life of Crowley himself who lived out this version of the maxim. 

 

No ?  Have you read his auto biography ?  Plenty of positive in that and a load of fun and excitement ... everything from mountaineering in the Himalayas   ( he actually held some records there ) to introducing psychedelics to European modern culture  - he actually used his abilities as a chemist to synthesise psilocybin .

 

But you probably mean  'spiritual ' positives ... advancements, successes . Well, according to him, his main purpose was deliver this message ,  for his time and into the future  ( Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law )  .....   here we are ... still talking about it  and some even appreciating its value  !

 

regardless of how much of a dick he was  ... or wasn't .

 

 

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

I guess if the whole was divorced from Crowley I can see why you’d take it positively, perhaps the issue is can it actually be divorced from Crowley in the form it’s been presented by you? 

 

Again, read my  stuff on identifying this principle in ancient Zoroastrianism and how it entered the hermetic stream in  modern Europe via the recommended reading  ( by many occult schools )   as 'Chaldean oracles' .... knowledge, writings etc .

 

These are the people that   Magi came from ..... the very roots of the word 'magic' itself .

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

I  do more research, but I suspect Crowley will always come out as a shady character.

 

 

Certainly !   Come out as much worse than that .   On the one hand he was poo pooed for flaunting bi sexuality , drug taking  ( wtf ... he was a psychonaut .... so am I ! ) promiscuity .   Are we still in Victorian England ?

 

On the other hand , he was bitch . Should he have mocked  Israel Regardie so hypocritically  and publicly for being gay due to a silly argument  that Regardie soon  forgot   about and even partially accepted responsibility for  ?  IMO   NO !  In many ways  I think he was a turd .

 

The funny thing is , I have undertaken  a series of initiations and teachings written and designed by him  and I never detected that side of him in any of them .   Sure some stuff was challenging, depending on who you are , of course .

 

Even if he is a total fake arsehole .... the benefits we could get from some of his teachings are immense ... even if they are lifted or plagiarised ... in the  case of  'True Will ' / Khvaranah  ....   or the citing of Swinburne in ritual ..... it works ! To me, thats the main thing .  And I and many others have been introduced to this stuff by his writings .

 

Even to the extent that  , if you are not familiar with it, I urge you to read up on the Khvaranah  and contemplate your true life's purpose, what is the reason you are here , what is your inherent genius you have to offer , what is the thing you love most to do and get real and lasting joy and spiritual satisfaction out of ?   I hope you are already doing that , or if not, I urge you to  find it  ( it makes life worthwhile, a joy , a want to be here , a good life ... how it supposed to be )    nearly to the point of proselytising ! 

 

... but I know some just won't have it or believe it could be  that good .  We have even set great things up for those poor people who cannot manifest much on the physical plane  (on my commune  here,  I mean ) ..... they just wreck it or abuse it ... and you , eventually .

 

Ho-hum ..... such is life .

[Nungali]

35 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Many years ago I ran a workshop to see the personal will and all the participants failed.  One woman was determined and meditated for hours each night.  She wrote me that 6 days later at 2am she finally saw her personal will

 

She said that everything charitable she had ever done was to make herself feel better.

 

I ran a workshop too  ... and failed everyone too ! 

 

 

 

 

Dude  ! 

 

But I liked your last sentence, because that is all everyone does !   If you want a common denominator  for human behaviour, thats it !

 

What, you think Mother Teresa didnt help all those people because it didnt make her feel good ?   You think Buddha didnt teach the alleviating of suffering because that didnt make him feel good ?  You think God didnt make the garden of Eden because ..... 

 

I remember years back, when it was in vogue , a hare Krishna saying to me how hard it is , getting up chanting, making that food and offering it to Ksishna .  I said , 'But you LOVE doing it dont you ? Thats why you do it . "  he was honest enough to agree .

 

Why am i doing this now , and why are you here ?   It makes us feel better .

 

And if it doesnt  ..... some deep Nungali wisdom for ya  ......

 

.... go and do something else then ! 

 

[Nungali]

.....     achieved enlightenment and surpassed the need for further incarnation ?

 

No , I will suffer more, become a Bodhisattva , return and try and help the others .  Why ?

 

Out of compassion, of course, and love and consideration .

 

But why are you interested in that stuff ?

 

..... because that makes me feel better .

 

 

[Nungali]

One could even postulate that doing you true Will gives you the best feeling .

 

... let's see now, going on memory , its actually a promise  ... of Nuit , I think the word used is more than 'feeling better'  its 'ecstasy' .

 

Memory ....m he !   I  thought I better look it up;    its actually ' unimaginable joys ' ... since I was referring to this life / incarnation we have now , ie for 'the living ' .

 

Here is the line ;   " I give unimaginable joys on earth: certainty, not faith, while in life, upon death; peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy; nor do I demand aught in sacrifice. "

 

A little different to your standard male God .       

 

 

.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Nungali

[Bindi]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

If you haven't read through this thread you will have missed a lot .

 

 

 

Yes, that is one 'precursor' , mostly due to the references about love and will .

 

 

Not literally but one must understand what he MEANT by those terms, and within that understanding of the principle (not the words ) it exists in the earliest  civilisations and  spiritual teachings, mostly as I noted and posted about in this thread and elsewhere in the concept of Avestan Khvarinah , which  appears in earlier posts here . Its all laid out in the  earlier post .

 

 

No ?  Have you read his auto biography ?  Plenty of positive in that and a load of fun and excitement ... everything from mountaineering in the Himalayas   ( he actually held some records there ) to introducing psychedelics to European modern culture  - he actually used his abilities as a chemist to synthesise psilocybin .

 

But you probably mean  'spiritual ' positives ... advancements, successes . Well, according to him, his main purpose was deliver this message ,  for his time and into the future  ( Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law )  .....   here we are ... still talking about it  and some even appreciating its value  !

 

regardless of how much of a dick he was  ... or wasn't .

 

 

 

Again, read my  stuff on identifying this principle in ancient Zoroastrianism and how it entered the hermetic stream in  modern Europe via the recommended reading  ( by many occult schools )   as 'Chaldean oracles' .... knowledge, writings etc .

 

These are the people that   Magi came from ..... the very roots of the word 'magic' itself .

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly !   Come out as much worse than that .   On the one hand he was poo pooed for flaunting bi sexuality , drug taking  ( wtf ... he was a psychonaut .... so am I ! ) promiscuity .   Are we still in Victorian England ?

 

On the other hand , he was bitch . Should he have mocked  Israel Regardie so hypocritically  and publicly for being gay due to a silly argument  that Regardie soon  forgot   about and even partially accepted responsibility for  ?  IMO   NO !  In many ways  I think he was a turd .

 

The funny thing is , I have undertaken  a series of initiations and teachings written and designed by him  and I never detected that side of him in any of them .   Sure some stuff was challenging, depending on who you are , of course .

 

Even if he is a total fake arsehole .... the benefits we could get from some of his teachings are immense ... even if they are lifted or plagiarised ... in the  case of  'True Will ' / Khvaranah  ....   or the citing of Swinburne in ritual ..... it works ! To me, thats the main thing .  And I and many others have been introduced to this stuff by his writings .

 

Even to the extent that  , if you are not familiar with it, I urge you to read up on the Khvaranah  and contemplate your true life's purpose, what is the reason you are here , what is your inherent genius you have to offer , what is the thing you love most to do and get real and lasting joy and spiritual satisfaction out of ?   I hope you are already doing that , or if not, I urge you to  find it  ( it makes life worthwhile, a joy , a want to be here , a good life ... how it supposed to be )    nearly to the point of proselytising ! 

 

 

Yes I have contemplated these questions and have come to my own conclusions, though I am open to alternative conclusions given increased understanding. I don’t think though that these are the most fundamental questions I am concerned about, and regarding ‘Will’ as long as my will is aligned with my truly greatest good, it’s also not something I spend too much time on. I am more preoccupied with the workings of Yin and Yang within myself, and lately the nature of the inner or spirit child within. 

 

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

... but I know some just won't have it or believe it could be  that good .  We have even set great things up for those poor people who cannot manifest much on the physical plane  (on my commune  here,  I mean ) ..... they just wreck it or abuse it ... and you , eventually .

 

Ho-hum ..... such is life .

 

[helpfuldemon]

I don't really care for arguing with Nungali about my interpretation of free will and True Will.  At this point I could probably repeat what he says and he'd still say I was wrong.  

[mcoolio]

Okay guys,

 

So what do I have to do to see my own personal 'true' will?

 

[helpfuldemon]

Don't ask, it's a neurotic concept.  Just do what you believe you should do, monitor the results and make adjustments to your actions according to the outcome.

[mcoolio]

Well, if there are practices related to the discovery of this thing, then I'm just a little curious how that might go.

 

But I understand what you mean demon, and you are probably right in a way, at least in my case ...

[Michael Sternbach]

11 hours ago, Bindi said:

Am I correct in thinking that @Nungali and @Michael Sternbach are actually positive about Aleister Crowley and value what he has written?

 

Nungali and I both dealt with AC in our own way as part of our occult 'education'. We are kind of regulars in Crowley related threads and try our best to rectify what we perceive as misconceptions about his teachings... Or misconceptions in the questioner's personal philosophical outlook, for that matter! 🤭

 

Since Nungers already appropriately and eloquently discussed AC's colourful personality, let me just share a few things about my personal approach to Crowley here... 

 

Our first contact had everything to do with Crowley's famous Tarot deck. For when I became interested in Tarot some 35 years ago, the Thoth appealed to me the most with its dreamlike symbolism and visionary beauty, and it was the very first deck I acquired. Exploring its symbols led me quite naturally to some of AC's other works and to John Symond's The Great Beast - The Life of Aleister Crowley. 

 

Well, the Thoth turned out to be a veritable compendium of AC's vast  knowledge and introduced me to (or at least made me take a closer look at) various esoteric systems. There was without a doubt much of value to be found in Crowley's books as well, as he had been intimately familiar with an impressive number of both Western and Eastern traditions.

 

And yet, he had not been sitting in the British Library gathering dust all day like his counterpart in the Golden Dawn, Arthur Edward Waite! Here was a man of profound esoteric knowledge and phenomenal creativity, but also a Cosmopolitan adventurer and most assuredly a fun loving child. I don't hesitate to confess that this specific combination of traits resonated with me more than just a bit back then in my early 20's, and heck, it does to this very day.

 

This is not to deny that Crowley had some personal weaknesses (to put it mildly). But why should this keep people from reading his books? Maybe it's just me, but I found little evil in them.

 

Quote

I haven’t read Crowley’s writing, but watching this video I can’t see that anything true or valuable could have come from him. Is the documentary wrong, or am I missing some occult secret that allows Crowley to be anything other than horrifying? 
 

 

 

OMG, what a biased, one-sided, propagandistic BS! 😲

 

That said, I can't help thinking that AC may actually have enjoyed a presentation of this kind. After all, he spared no effort to style himself as the Great Beast.

 

Part of it no doubt was a rebellious counter reaction to his Puritan upbringing, and on top of that, I am pretty sure that he simply enjoyed taking the piss out of his audience by playing up his 'wickedness'.

[Michael Sternbach]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Bindi. I am sure you realise  that by not going on reading any books, or direct teachings from original source and relying on one internet youtube  is not the way to go .

 

As far as supporting Crowley or not, thats not really the issue here , its a bout the thread title and that concept . Unfortunately everyone seems to think its an original Crowley concept, hence that focus .

 

I'd rather stay on the topic of the principle rather than start watching  youtubes  about Crowley and commenting on their veracity or not .

 

I mean, look what the uneducated have been saying here !  I cant imagine the rubbish that appears on any youtube about it .

 

if it makes people happy, then yes, you can see him as  crazed homosexual drug taking satanic baby eater ..... whatever .    And I openly admit that most of that was not only his fault himself, but he actually cultivated it  .... probably to keep people that are thinking like that away from him   .

 

The man's goods and bads,  valuable teachings and quackery should be the subject for a different thread , here it is the principle of True Will  and  some are having enough trouble with  that  alone already .

 

I will let Michael speak for himself  as he might have different ideas than me   (   )  and he may well be a  bad, nasty , homo, drug taking  Satanist baby eater himself . 

 

 

I have nothing to add. 😜🤣😎