Do What Thou Wilt

[Neirong]

On 14.09.2022 at 5:29 AM, Aeordimm said:

You quickly run out of luck if you keep with the trial and error thing.

I wonder how people would proceed with the trial and error approach when it is not something in their imagination but a real tangible chance to die or suffer pain and chronic disease worse than death with each step made, and you have to make more than 9999+ steps.

Also, how would one think if they were locked in a closed room with a safe strongbox where you need to enter a code to proceed and survive
The number of possible combinations when opening the safe is 9 trillion, and only one of them is opening the door.

Both scenarios are reality for people without a path of cultivation and without tradition/teacher.          

[helpfuldemon]

Part of my trail of sorrow was learning to accept this Law as Truth.  I mourned for our loss of protection from having real laws to govern us and bring us order.  I know from personal experience that people will test Wisdom, and I know that children will be wild and lawless because there is a little bit of Evil in everyone.  I have accepted that there are consequences for our actions, and I have learned that we put laws in place for ourselves, mostly just ones, to govern us.  I wonder though, if there is any Divine providence for us?  It made me sad to think not, after all the work I put in to finding God.

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

I wonder though, if there is any Divine providence for us?  It made me sad to think not, after all the work I put in to finding God.

 

Don't be sad.  God/Divine providence are hidden from everyone.  If you have food, water, housing, etc... in door plumbing, that's divine providence.  Simple stuff.   Regarding Finding God.  I don't think God wants to be found.     

[manitou]

16 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Don't be sad.  God/Divine providence are hidden from everyone.  If you have food, water, housing, etc... in door plumbing, that's divine providence.  Simple stuff.   Regarding Finding God.  I don't think God wants to be found.     

 

 

LOL.  I think 'God' is a lot closer than we think.

[helpfuldemon]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, Daniel said:

 

Don't be sad.  God/Divine providence are hidden from everyone.  If you have food, water, housing, etc... in door plumbing, that's divine providence.  Simple stuff.   Regarding Finding God.  I don't think God wants to be found.     

God is unknowable because He wants the freedom to do what He will, because He is all power, and all perfect in His power, and doesn't need our input into what He does.  We know God only through Creation, but there are so many questions about why things are how they are, and what God does.  

[Daniel]

19 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

LOL.  I think 'God' is a lot closer than we think.

 

Proximity is irrelevant.

[Cobie]

 

19 hours ago, manitou said:

LOL.  I think 'God' is a lot closer than we think.

I think so yes. My God is omnipresent, so is also inside me. That’s close enough for me.  

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

8 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

… We know God only through Creation, …

We are part of “Creation”, so can know through our own bodies. 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

On 07/10/2022 at 4:02 AM, Daniel said:

… food, water, housing, etc... in door plumbing … Simple stuff.  …

Yes, that’s important too. Keep a strong base in reality. 
 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Cobie

[ralis]

9 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

God is unknowable because He wants the freedom to do what He will, because He is all power, and all perfect in His power, and doesn't need our input into what He does.  We know God only through Creation, but there are so many questions about why things are how they are, and what God does.  

 

God is a male? That nonsense was started by the patriarchy during the Axial Age with the rise of monotheism.

[doc benway]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:02 PM, Daniel said:

I don't think God wants to be found.

 

I don't think God "wants."

That's simply anthropomorphic projection.

[Earl Grey]

"God is a concept by which we measure pain."

 

-- John Lennon

[liminal_luke]

12 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I don't think God "wants."

That's simply anthropomorphic projection.

 

If God has yet to free himself (or herself, if you prefer) from desires and aversions, what chance have I got?

[Nintendao]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

We are part of “Creation”, so can know through our own bodies. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

21.

IT lies in the nature of Grand Virtue
To follow the Tao and the Tao alone.
Now what is the Tao?
It is Something elusive and evasive.
Evasive and elusive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Form.
Elusive and evasive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Substance.
Shadowy and dim!
And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality.
The Core of Vitality is very real,
It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity.
Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved
In order to recall the Beginning of all things.
How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning?
By what is within me.

 

54.

WHAT is well planted cannot be uprooted.
What is well embraced cannot slip away.
Your descendants will carry on the ancestral sacrifice for generations without end.

Cultivate Virtue in your own person,
And it becomes a genuine part of you.
Cultivate it in the family,
And it will abide.
Cultivate it in the community,
And it will live and grow.
Cultivate it in the state,
And it will flourish abundantly.
Cultivate it in the world,
And it vill become universal.

Hence, a person must be judged as person;
A family as family;
A community as community;
A state as state;
The world as world.

How do I know about the world?
By what is within me.

 

57.

You govern a kingdom by normal rules;
You fight a war by exceptional moves;
But you win the world by letting alone.
How do I know that this is so?
By what is within me!

The more taboos and inhibitions there are in the world,
The poorer the people become.
The sharper the weapons the people possess,
The greater confusion reigns in the realm.
The more clever and crafty the men,
The oftener strange things happen.
The more articulate the laws and ordinances,
The more robbers and thieves arise.

Therefore, the Sage says:
I do not make any fuss, and the people transform themselves.
I love quietude, and the people settle down in their regular grooves.
I do not engage myself in anything, and the people grow rich.
I have no desires, and the people return to Simplicity.

 

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/wu.html

 

 

以此。

An interesting little phrase. Kind of like saying, "it's right there!" or, "the answer is right in front of us when our backs are turned."

[ralis]

3 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

If God has yet to free himself (or herself, if you prefer) from desires and aversions, what chance have I got?

 

Why even attach a gender at all? Ein Sof is not describable by any characterization.

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

以此。

An interesting little phrase. Kind of like saying, "it's right there!" or, "the answer is right in front of us when our backs are turned."

以此 is kind of like saying "because of this" or "based on this"

Edited October 8, 2022 by Mango

[doc benway]

16 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

If God has yet to free himself (or herself, if you prefer) from desires and aversions, what chance have I got?

 

Exactly the same?

[Daniel]

36 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I don't think God "wants."

That's simply anthropomorphic projection.

 

Maybe.  If you look at the way I phrased the statement in the negative, there is no contradiction between what you're saying and what I'm saying.

 

If "God doesn't want" ( because that is anthropomorphic ) Then it's true "God doesn't want to be found".

[Mango]

19 minutes ago, ralis said:

Why even attach a gender at all

Why do we have the words, god and goddess? 

[Daniel]

30 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

If God has yet to free himself (or herself, if you prefer) from desires and aversions, what chance have I got?

 

I think you're making a very good point.  It makes me wonder if God is intended to be a role model? 

 

I'm also now I wondering if God can have an aversion.  If we are talking about the same God concept, an aversion would never be created because it is contrary to God's will?  But without aversion, can desire exist?  But without desire there would be no creation ... and then poof, I just convinced myself that I do not exist.  

[Cobie]

 

3 hours ago, Nintendao said:

21. … How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning? By what is within me.

54 …How do I know about the world? By what is within me. …

57. …you win the world by letting alone. How do I know that this is so? By what is within me!  [*]
 

以此 
… Kind of like saying, "it's right there!" or, "the answer is right in front of us when our backs are turned."

Thank you very much. That’s extraordinary! 
 

~~~
* John C. H. Wu, 1961 https://terebess.hu/english/tao/wu.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ching_Hsiung_Wu 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Cobie

[helpfuldemon]

Do What Thou Wilt encourages liberty and desire, two things that are naturally ours.

People either succeed in this, or fall, depending upon how they handle them.

In life, we have laws, and in freedom, there may be no Law, but a wise person observes the Law so as to avoid fines and punishment and stigma. Some people, that break Laws, are convicted and ostracized.

Many lifestyles contradict a certain social Law, and those people are ostracized. This is one reason people fall to their desires and freedoms.

In life, we must fight for our lifestyle choices, and obey Laws until they are changed, lest we find ourselves at the mercy of our choices.

[helpfuldemon]

Crowley believed that all people are Kings.  He observed the Laws of Kings, realizing that they murder, steal, and destroy property, which are the big three Sins that exist.  He realized that they fight for their Will and are unafraid of harming someone over it.  That was his acknowledgment, and it is how he built Thelema and its Laws.  We have the same rights as Kings.  Do What Thou Wilt!

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

Here is what I concluded from entering the Abyss:

 

The only thing I can contribute is my own take on what should be evident to everyone Good: Do not harm someone's intellectual, emotional, or physical health, do not harm their wealth, and do not harm their liberty. To do this would incur a punishment of incarceration or fine. Approach exchanges as if they were contracts, so as to clarify your intention.

 

If you desire to be better than the simple Truth that this Law provides, then aid people in their struggles. Generosity and Kindness reign as Supreme Goods.

Edited September 21, 2023 by helpfuldemon

[helpfuldemon]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:53 AM, Mango said:

Why do we have the words, god and goddess? 

God is both Male and Female united as One Entity.