The scandal of me sitting in full lotus padmasana

[Walker]

@Apech I really want to agree with you. I really hear where you're coming from. But this dude is inveterate! All he needs to do is offer a single, "I'm sorry guys, I was younger, it was dumb, I fucked up, wouldn't have done it if I knew then what I know, apologize for freaking you all out." But there's not a peep of this, and actually he just doubles down! I don't think things are simply "in the past" when a person displays the exact opposite of contrition.

 

I'm not champing at the bit for a ban. But do I think declaring rapey, pedophilic writings to be an absolute no-no--and banning on the basis of them--is not quite thought police level (hell, didn't even 4Chan ban that shit?). The man is oh, so eager to play spiritual adviser to anyone who will have him... Aiya...

Edited November 26, 2019 by Walker

[Earl Grey]

10 minutes ago, Walker said:

@Apech I really want to agree with you. I really hear where you're coming from. But this dude is inveterate! All he needs to do is offer a single, "I'm sorry guys, I was younger, it was dumb, I fucked up, wouldn't have done it if I knew then what I know, apologize for freaking you all out." But there's not a peep of this, and actually he just doubles down! I don't think things are simply "in the past" when a person displays the exact opposite of contrition.

 

I'm not champing at the bit for a ban. But I don't think saying rapey, pedophilic writings is absolute no-no, and banning on the basis of them, is not quite thought police level (hell, didn't even 4Chan ban that shit?). The man is oh, so eager to play spiritual adviser to anyone who will have him... Aiya...

 

I can forgive someone for being an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't an asshole, it means that I no longer let him affect me for being an asshole. 

 

Unfortunately, Drew is not apologizing for what he did and what he did wasn't towards me, but towards others. 

 

When he's ready to apologize, I'll be there with the guys and gals giving him props for it, but until then, he's who he is, and that is not the kind of person I'd want in my living room or near anyone I know and care for at all. 

[JohnC]

I 100% support keeping Drew.

 

You all are calling what he is doing energetic rape, when.... no one, Drew included, can be conclusive toward what he was actually doing. Including his conclusions of what was happening was even true. For all we know, some girl was like 'this dude looked at me funny'.

 

Are some of his ideas questionable? Sure.

But this bullying/harassing thing you guys are up to, isn't cool.

 

He doesn't need to apologize, because you all want him to. Especially if it is due to your bullying, or threats of banning.

It would be a worthless and insincere apology anyway.

If he has broken a policy, warn then ban him. If he decides to self reflect, that is up to him.

 

It is easy to judge the past with current morals and hunt for things to be pissed about.

Is he breaking the rules now though?

 

It doesn't look like it to me.

Your all's harassment of him looks pretty shitty to me.

 

John

[ilumairen]

 

13 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I liked the jokes too -- they were funny.  And I agree with @Apech about the value of humor.  It´s just that I also see TheLerner´s point and think that it´s too much after awhile.

 

If his unchecked presence here creates an environmnent where people don´t  feel good about hanging out then lets do something about it. 

 

People who felt compelled to were doing something about it, in their own way and with humor. 

 

13 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Why not suggest that he be banned?  (Perhaps you already have and I´ve not been privy.) 

 

 

No.

 

13 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

As I´ve said, I would support such a move.  If people aren´t allowed to make transphobic comments here than it´s not too much of a stretch to think we could also ban energetic rapists.  Especially ones who continue to see nothing wrong with their past actions.  Of course Sean might not go for that idea.  I have no idea.  Suggesting a ban sends a clear message that his views and past actions are not accepted here.

 

Just because I don't accept the chastisement bit, doesn't mean I'm of the nature or mood to don a ban harness. 

[ilumairen]

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I 100% support keeping Drew.

 

You all are calling what he is doing energetic rape, when.... no one, Drew included, can be conclusive toward what he was actually doing. Including his conclusions of what was happening was even true. For all we know, some girl was like 'this dude looked at me funny'.

 

I think he's another "celibate" who has messed themselves up, and is delusional when it comes to women and his interactions with the same - even if he can quote text regarding the "low vibration" of people with vaginas.

 

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Are some of his ideas questionable? Sure.

But this bullying/harassing thing you guys are up to, isn't cool.

 

I appreciate the voices speaking out.

 

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He doesn't need to apologize, because you all want him to.

 

Please be careful with the "all." I don't ask for or expect apologies.

 

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

No. No. No. No banning for past transgressions - ban for rule breaks (which may include hate speech if so deemed by Sean).  We are DBs not the moral majority - not the not-so silent majority.  Do you want to propel us back to the 1950's?

 

First of all none of us know what actually transpired in those MacDonalds of yesteryear - what if more or less nothing happened and it was all just in his mind.

 

What if  it was all in his mind   ????   

 

Oh gosh !  here I was thinking that it all actually happened  .   

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

 So there was only imagined 'O at a D' and then we are banning someone just for thinking something.  Thought crime.  And we are the Ministry of Truth.

 

Of course not !  Thats silly .

 

If banned , he would be banned for typing it out  and posting it  here .  Not because he thought it .

 

Goodness !  if I typed out and posted here some of things i think about !    

 

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Second - suppose it did happen -

 

Noooooooooo    

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

then what is the pathway to redemption?

 

Redemption ! ?   Stuff redemption, I want to know about his  punishment      

 

I suggest 'electric sex pants '    .

 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 To be dispatched to the wilderness or to be left here where we can take the piss out of him as long as we like.

 

He is the  Jepp  to our   Tycho Brahe

 

 

https://boingboing.net/2011/02/17/tycho-brahes-dwarf-a.html

 

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 As cultivators of various types we have to believe in pathways to renewal and liberation.  Otherwise what are we doing here?

 

Mostly that ... and also occasionally 'playing' with those that  refuse to renew and be liberated from the old . I mean, I assume its their will to have these interactions in the first place , otherwise, why on earth would they act so stupendously in public ?

 

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

Love and forgiveness brothers and sisters NOT witch trails 2019.

 

Well, like I said  above  .....   any  banning , is  for typing it out  and posting it  here .  Not because one thinks certain things  .

 

How ya gonna detect what members  are thinking ?

 

 

Then again, I could be wrong ... and Sean could be at home  right now and  have the site and his computer connected to  ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manitou]

10 hours ago, Apech said:

No. No. No. No banning for past transgressions - ban for rule breaks (which may include hate speech if so deemed by Sean).  We are DBs not the moral majority - not the not-so silent majority.  Do you want to propel us back to the 1950's?

 

First of all none of us know what actually transpired in those MacDonalds of yesteryear - what if more or less nothing happened and it was all just in his mind.  So there was only imagined 'O at a D' and then we are banning someone just for thinking something.  Thought crime.  And we are the Ministry of Truth.

 

Second - suppose it did happen - then what is the pathway to redemption?  To be dispatched to the wilderness or to be left here where we can take the piss out of him as long as we like.  As cultivators of various types we have to believe in pathways to renewal and liberation.  Otherwise what are we doing here?  

 

Love and forgiveness brothers and sisters NOT witch trails 2019.

 

 

I feel really bad for even bringing up that alleged event.  I meant it in humor, and didn't realize that was such a hot button issue.  My serious apologies to @voidisyinyang if you're even still reading this thread.  My bad.

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

I feel really bad for even bringing up that alleged event.  I meant it in humor, and didn't realize that was such a hot button issue.  My serious apologies to @voidisyinyang if you're even still reading this thread.  My bad.

 

 

We all knew about it, don't feel bad, if you hadn't mentioned it somebody (i.e. Nungas) would have

 

[manitou]

Thank you, Apech.

[liminal_luke]

@Apech

 

Reading some of what you´ve written, I´ve revised my postion.  You´re right, I was wrong -- let´s not ban Voidisyinyang. 

 

I´ll share some of my previous thinking.  To my mind, a ban represented a lawful, principled alternative to skewering him with jokes.  While I appreciate the value of humor, I don´t think anybody should be subjected to the kind of demeaning treatment Void has received here.  I thought...how can people voice their displeasure with Void´s position and past behavior without resorting to endless insults and hit upon the idea of a ban.  Upon further reflection though, I realize that a ban isn´t the right approach either.  

[doc benway]

So many times I’ve crafted responses in my head, here and elsewhere, to so many topics. So often I see more value in silence when I craft the response with my heart.

 

[Nintendao]

 

I've only been on here a couple years, but I always kinda got an impression of ViYY as being at least "on the spectrum". Now that concept gets thrown around a lot these days it seems. Heck, I wonder how many more of us than not would be considered in a certain light. Anyway. Please let me disclaim I'm saying all this with zero disrespect intended. Quite the contrary. Whether it's endemic or a result of being poked in the third eye. Being mental shouldn't be an automatic excuse for being rude or a perv, but it does warrant certain consideration in judgments passed. All too especially with regards to levels of awkwardness or appropriateness deemed any form of interpersonal interaction, and apology or lack thereof for it. I'm going to leave it at that, and I hope I'm not just totally off base here. Personally I think he's great, but I am a weirdo also

[Apech]

10 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

@Apech

 

Reading some of what you´ve written, I´ve revised my postion.  You´re right, I was wrong -- let´s not ban Voidisyinyang. 

 

I´ll share some of my previous thinking.  To my mind, a ban represented a lawful, principled alternative to skewering him with jokes.  While I appreciate the value of humor, I don´t think anybody should be subjected to the kind of demeaning treatment Void has received here.  I thought...how can people voice their displeasure with Void´s position and past behavior without resorting to endless insults and hit upon the idea of a ban.  Upon further reflection though, I realize that a ban isn´t the right approach either.  

 

 

Sure you're right we should not descend into a mocking howling mob - that would be inhuman.  I just think we are all to a greater or lesser extent incomplete - or incomplete works in progress if you like.  But humour (or humor for you guys  ) is more of a healer than anything if it comes from the right place.  It's right to reject types of behaviour that are harmful or potentially harmful - but then 'hate the sin not the sinner' - or to be even more Jesusy about it:

 

"Matt. 7. [1] Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

 

When a man who dispenses orgasms at a distance enters a room people fall to their knees with joyous expressions shouting 'At last! At last!  Thank you God!!!!!'  And the weird thing is exactly the same thing happens when I leave a room.  Its yin and yang, ladies and gentlemen, it's all yin and yang.

 

 

 

[Nintendao]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

humour (or humor for you guys  ) is more of a healer

 

aww, we accept u just the way you are, but appreciate the clarification

[ilumairen]

15 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

I feel really bad for even bringing up that alleged event.  I meant it in humor, and didn't realize that was such a hot button issue.  My serious apologies to @voidisyinyang if you're even still reading this thread.  My bad.

 

My observations:

 

Two women join in the ruckus, with great (healing) humor.

 

Shortly after the cry of "shame.. shame.." is sounded. 

 

Heading this cry, one of the women dutifully feels the shame and apologizes - for which she is rewarded with a little heart of appreciation for the conformity and stepping into line with the expectations of the first shaming and then rewarding individual. 

 

Manitou, what you wrote was funny. I found myself sharing it in real life after I burst into laughter, and rejoicing in your freedom of expression. 

[liminal_luke]

I appreciate @steve´s post about coming from the heart.  Often I´ll weigh in about moderation/board issues -- I enjoy doing so -- and I can get into a very heady analytical mode.  So this morning I asked myself what a response from the heart to the topic at hand would look like.

 

@Apech provides a heartful jumping off place: we are all to a greater or lesser extent incomplete.  So true!  (At least on the level of relative reality I´m functioning at; things might well appear differently from an enlightened perspective.) Almost all of us are struggling with a sense of incompleteness.  We are all hurt.  I don´t think there´s any topic more likely to touch on and trigger our collective wounding than sex. As Voidisyinyang has pointed out, even recognized gurus have gotten tripped up over sexual issues.

 

We´ve got lots of words to express judgment of other people´s sexual expression.  I lack the courage to write a complete list here but here´s a few that jump to my mind: prude, perv, dirty old man, harlot, slut.  These words can be used to draw tight circles around ourselves and the people who we are willing to open our hearts to.  Which is not to say that all sexual expression is OK.  It´s not.  Many forms of sexual expression hurt other people and are not OK at all.  But the people who express themselves in harmful sexual ways are, at the end of the proverbial day, people.  Often they are people shockingly like ourselves.  They are not monsters, not perverts.  They do not come from another planet.

 

And so I think a heartful approach to this topic is one that recognizes our common humanity.  We´ve all been hurt and hurt has a way of engendering further reactivity and trauma.  Opening in compassion, we will perhaps find a way forward.      

[Nintendao]

41 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

My observations:

 

Two women join in the ruckus, with great (healing) humor.

 

Shortly after the cry of "shame.. shame.." is sounded. 

 

Heading this cry, one of the women dutifully feels the shame and apologizes - for which she is rewarded with a little heart of appreciation for the conformity and stepping into line with the expectations of the first shaming and then rewarding individual. 

 

Manitou, what you wrote was funny. I found myself sharing it in real life after I burst into laughter, and rejoicing in your freedom of expression. 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Nintendao

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

 

My observations:

 

Two women join in the ruckus, with great (healing) humor.

 

Shortly after the cry of "shame.. shame.." is sounded. 

 

It was sounded prematurely.  Should have waited for all those jokes I kept making in my mind but was reluctant to share.  E.g. the one about a woman who sits in full lotus at a McDonald's and practices energetic projection of P at a D -- priapism at a distance.  Well, too late now.  I spoiled the punch line.  

[doc benway]

It seems that lots of women have that power over me... It makes Drew’s ‘super power’ seem somewhat pedestrian.

Then again, maybe it’s just me.

🤪

[manitou]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

 

My observations:

 

Two women join in the ruckus, with great (healing) humor.

 

Shortly after the cry of "shame.. shame.." is sounded. 

 

Heading this cry, one of the women dutifully feels the shame and apologizes - for which she is rewarded with a little heart of appreciation for the conformity and stepping into line with the expectations of the first shaming and then rewarding individual. 

 

Manitou, what you wrote was funny. I found myself sharing it in real life after I burst into laughter, and rejoicing in your freedom of expression. 

 

 

honestly, I didn't know the Macdonald's thing was such a sore spot.  I do really feel bad because I may have hurt another Bum (namely, Voidisinyang).  That was truly the reason for my reversal, not because I felt shame from anyone.  But I do appreciate that you appreciate my futile attempts at occasional humo(u)r.  

[manitou]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

or to be even more Jesusy about it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is priceless.  Never heard Jesus being used as an adjective before.  May I use it?

 

Or is it a gerund?  The gerund concept went over my head in school.

 

* * * * * * * * * *

 

(just looked it up.  Not a gerund.  No -ing)

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by manitou
To save the pristine nature of a gerund

[Apech]

10 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

This is priceless.  Never heard Jesus being used as an adjective before.  May I use it?

 

Or is it a gerund?  The gerund concept went over my head in school.

 

* * * * * * * * * *

 

(just looked it up.  Not a gerund.  No -ing)

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah that would be Jesusing ... as in  'what's that beardy guy wearing sandals up to?' ... 'Oh he's just Jesusing around.'

 

Also if you practice Dharma just after the Winter Solstice : 'Christmas Buddhing'.

 

OK I'll stop now.

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

16 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

This is priceless.  Never heard Jesus being used as an adjective before.  May I use it?

 

Or is it a gerund?  The gerund concept went over my head in school.

 

* * * * * * * * * *

 

(just looked it up.  Not a gerund.  No -ing)

 

 

 

 

Just now, Apech said:

 

 

Yeah that would be Jesusing ... as in  'what's that beardy guy wearing sandals up to?' ... 'Oh he's just Jesusing around.'

 

Also if you practice Dharma just after the Winter Solstice : 'Christmas Buddhing'.

 

OK I'll stop now.

 

 

 

 

This thread has taken an unexpectedly grammatic-y turn.  Some might find this pedantic, but after all the attacking and counterattacking, the humoring and ethical stance posing, well...I actually find it refreshing.

[Apech]

17 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

 

This thread has taken an unexpectedly grammatic-y turn.  Some might find this pedantic, but after all the attacking and counterattacking, the humoring and ethical stance posing, well...I actually find it refreshing.

 

 

Wait till we get on to the subjunctive!

[liminal_luke]

6 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Wait till we get on to the subjunctive!

 

Would that you might!