Students of Jerry Alan Johnson

[witens]

Dear Dao Bums!

Is here anyone who studies/studied with Prof. Jerry Alan Johnson?

I am just looking for someone who I can discuss my questions with since it is kinda impossible to learn only from his books.

Thank you in advance,

Witens

[Taomeow]

Hi Witens,

 

I only read some of his material, but a friend of mine studied with him in person.   Not for very long though, about three months, so I don't know if she is qualified to answer your questions, but if no one better familiar with his work shows up, try asking and I can ask my friend.  

[Earl Grey]

The good news is that I know of two members who studied with him, the bad news is that they are sadly no longer active here.

[witens]

On 2019. 11. 14. at 9:33 PM, Taomeow said:

Hi Witens,

 

I only read some of his material, but a friend of mine studied with him in person.   Not for very long though, about three months, so I don't know if she is qualified to answer your questions, but if no one better familiar with his work shows up, try asking and I can ask my friend.  

Hi there!

Thank you Taomeow.

I am interested in his taoist alchemy book but i can not really see how we should progress. Not even where we should start the training.

Edited November 17, 2019 by witens

[witens]

On 2019. 11. 15. at 2:18 AM, Earl Grey said:

The good news is that I know of two members who studied with him, the bad news is that they are sadly no longer active here.

Thanks anyway, it's good to see that they exist.

[Taomeow]

4 minutes ago, witens said:

Hi there!

Thank you Taomeow.

I am interested in his taoist alchemy book but i can not really see how we should progress. Not even where we should start the training.

 

Maybe JAJ will offer another online course, he had one this year.  He posted information on his FB page.  

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Professor Johnson's teaching site is:

 

Temple of the Original Thunder

 

While at the top it is not clear that 2019 registration for his seven year program is closed, it gets around to saying that at the bottom, where it also has a form to be notified if and when a new class series opens up.

 

As I posted a few  years back:

 

On 10/28/2013 at 2:17 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

I do have all of his Daoist Magic books and four of his medical qigong books. In terms of his previous books there is a lot of material that is 'new', by which I mean that he has not written about it in his other books, though I have known about or worked with some of it for a long time. I posted on the Tao Bums a couple of years ago that one should start with his medical qigong books:

 

On 9/10/2011 at 6:30 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

I have four of his medical qigong books and all of his Daoist magic series. It is an impressive body of work, though the Daoist magic series is not conducive to self study (nor do I really think it is intended to be), the medical qigong books are more user friendly and since Professor Johnson seems to view Daoist magic as an extension of medical qigong, there is enough material about Daoist magic training and techniques in the four medical qiqong books that they would make a good starting point for independent study, if you have a serious interest in this type of thing.

They seem to agree with me because their guide to buying Daoist books recommend buying . . . (books from the medical qigong series, at the time of my post, the first two, but see below for more recent recommendation, ZYD)

 

Also at the bottom is the list of texts used in his course and it now includes the first three of his Chinese Energetic Medicine series, which, in the earlier version, is what I had recommended in some posts about the same time as the above.  These Texts can be purchased here:

 

Order Chinese Energetic Medicine

 

I have the earlier versions of the series which had a different title so I haven't seen or worked with these, but they should be like mine which are hundreds of pages each and packed with useful information, so at $80.00 a piece for the new ones, they are a good investment which could keep someone occupied for one to two years depending on their experience and starting point and lay a good foundation for future practice.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

ZYD

 

[flowing hands]

There is something fundamentally wrong with Jerry Johnson, he is a Jesus lover. As we know Jesus never wrote a word down and it's all here say. It is quite common now for sects of Daoism to incorporate Jesus and God into what they believe in. Youtube is full of pseudo Daoists and Christian sects trying to melt the two together. They are fundamentally completely different world views and anyone who is a Christian trying to incorporate Daoism into their beliefs should be avoided and any pseudo Daoists who claim to 'have Jesus in their heart' should also be avoided. Any real cultivator of Dao will have the Dao in their heart (Dao Xin) and certainly not Jesus.

[Zork]

3 hours ago, flowing hands said:

There is something fundamentally wrong with Jerry Johnson, he is a Jesus lover. As we know Jesus never wrote a word down and it's all here say. It is quite common now for sects of Daoism to incorporate Jesus and God into what they believe in. Youtube is full of pseudo Daoists and Christian sects trying to melt the two together. They are fundamentally completely different world views and anyone who is a Christian trying to incorporate Daoism into their beliefs should be avoided and any pseudo Daoists who claim to 'have Jesus in their heart' should also be avoided. Any real cultivator of Dao will have the Dao in their heart (Dao Xin) and certainly not Jesus.

Out of curiosity which part of the teachings of Jesus do you find incompatible with taoism?

You are equating modern Christianity with the teachings of Jesus. They aren't the same. The "just war" doctrine isn't part of the teachings of Christ (turn the other cheek anyone?) yet it is part of the teachings of the Catholic church.

As Gandhi put it "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

What sets Christians from Taoists apart is the belief in the Creator/supreme god of Jews. Jesus never mentioned or identified the "heavenly father" with the creator god.

In fact if one ignores the monotheistic approach of Christianity then many similarities between it and Buddhism are obvious.

Do you consider Buddhism and Taoism so different too?

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, Zork said:

Out of curiosity which part of the teachings of Jesus do you find incompatible with taoism?

You are equating modern Christianity with the teachings of Jesus. They aren't the same. The "just war" doctrine isn't part of the teachings of Christ (turn the other cheek anyone?) yet it is part of the teachings of the Catholic church.

As Gandhi put it "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

What sets Christians from Taoists apart is the belief in the Creator/supreme god of Jews. Jesus never mentioned or identified the "heavenly father" with the creator god.

In fact if one ignores the monotheistic approach of Christianity then many similarities between it and Buddhism are obvious.

Do you consider Buddhism and Taoism so different too?

Even Thicht Nhat Hanh wrote about Jesus and Buddha as brothers.

[Zork]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Even Thicht Nhat Hanh wrote about Jesus and Buddha as brothers.

Thanks i will look it up.

[flowing hands]

1 hour ago, Zork said:

Out of curiosity which part of the teachings of Jesus do you find incompatible with taoism?

You are equating modern Christianity with the teachings of Jesus. They aren't the same. The "just war" doctrine isn't part of the teachings of Christ (turn the other cheek anyone?) yet it is part of the teachings of the Catholic church.

As Gandhi put it "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

What sets Christians from Taoists apart is the belief in the Creator/supreme god of Jews. Jesus never mentioned or identified the "heavenly father" with the creator god.

In fact if one ignores the monotheistic approach of Christianity then many similarities between it and Buddhism are obvious.

Do you consider Buddhism and Taoism so different too?

 

Buddhism is based on what? The Buddha never wrote anything down. Jesus, he never wrote anything down either, his apostles wrote everything as hearsay and what they originally wrote has been changed through history to bring them all to the same conclusion. So we have two major religions that are based on hearsay/Chinese whispers and all peoples believe sadly that what is written is true, just like Harry Potter is of course. If you are going to tell me that what is written are the exact words of Jesus, you must be completely delusional. So the great perversion of human kind began. The teachings of Dao hold no moralistic values of right and wrong of good and bad all that is manifest is of its own true nature. There is no compassion nor evil, there is no rules or codes that one should live by, only by one's own understandings of the way one can live one's life. This of course can be different to each individual. There is no love of one God nor of any God, There is no love of other people, but simply being and alive within the environment. There is no similarity between Buddhism and Dao, although many on here only know the letter of both and of Christianity and so they pick and choose from what is written by one religion to another to suit their needs and really never come to any understanding of anything in depth. Dao is unique amongst understandings, it is a living, breathing, entity and way we all live that one simply can't change, shackle it down to one thing or another, although it is used by many but not understood by most. It needs no words, nor teachings, it needs no master or head of the religion and most of all it needs no followers or intellectuals trying to work it out and saying it's one thing or another. If you think you know it and by your own words you imply that you think there are resemblances to Buddhism, then you don't know it at all.

[Zork]

13 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Buddhism is based on what? The Buddha never wrote anything down. Jesus, he never wrote anything down either, his apostles wrote everything as hearsay and what they originally wrote has been changed through history to bring them all to the same conclusion. So we have two major religions that are based on hearsay/Chinese whispers and all peoples believe sadly that what is written is true, just like Harry Potter is of course.

This is a double edged sword that cuts both ways! Taoism is based on two books. How do you know who wrote each book? Were you present? No you weren't of course. You trust people to hand you over the sayings verbatim.

15 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 If you are going to tell me that what is written are the exact words of Jesus, you must be completely delusional.

That goes for taoism too you know and it is laughable argument because in the absence of other evidence to the contrary one must take the writers to their word.

17 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

There is no similarity between Buddhism and Dao

Chan buddhism disagrees. Any other strawman?

 

18 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

There is no love of one God nor of any God,

Where did Jesus talk about the love of god? He talks about the love towards the people not gods.

 

20 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

If you think you know it and by your own words you imply that you think there are resemblances to Buddhism, then you don't know it at all.

Leave me in my ignorance!

[Earl Grey]

9 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Buddhism is based on what? The Buddha never wrote anything down. Jesus, he never wrote anything down either, his apostles wrote everything as hearsay and what they originally wrote has been changed through history to bring them all to the same conclusion. So we have two major religions that are based on hearsay/Chinese whispers and all peoples believe sadly that what is written is true, just like Harry Potter is of course. If you are going to tell me that what is written are the exact words of Jesus, you must be completely delusional. So the great perversion of human kind began. The teachings of Dao hold no moralistic values of right and wrong of good and bad all that is manifest is of its own true nature. There is no compassion nor evil, there is no rules or codes that one should live by, only by one's own understandings of the way one can live one's life. This of course can be different to each individual. There is no love of one God nor of any God, There is no love of other people, but simply being and alive within the environment. There is no similarity between Buddhism and Dao, although many on here only know the letter of both and of Christianity and so they pick and choose from what is written by one religion to another to suit their needs and really never come to any understanding of anything in depth. Dao is unique amongst understandings, it is a living, breathing, entity and way we all live that one simply can't change, shackle it down to one thing or another, although it is used by many but not understood by most. It needs no words, nor teachings, it needs no master or head of the religion and most of all it needs no followers or intellectuals trying to work it out and saying it's one thing or another. If you think you know it and by your own words you imply that you think there are resemblances to Buddhism, then you don't know it at all.

 

While I respect your personal level of accomplishment, I can't agree with your assessment or simplification of Christian and Buddhist doctrines, which, even if I do not practice them, respect on some level, on top of the teachings of the Buddha and the Christ, or specifically, Siddartha and Jesus. 

 

I can't comment any further because unfortunately, I do not see analysis or depth of understanding in your arguments, but mostly judgments, and while your specific transmission of the Tao I respect, I do not see it as the authoritative view. 

[Earl Grey]

ANYWAY, I hope we stay on topic because this is about JAJ--not the false dichotomies between Taoism, Buddhism, and Christianity!

[silent thunder]

dao gives rise to all

jesus, buddha

any talk about jesus and buddha

any talk about dao

 

all arises from dao

 

dao spoken, is a word

 

dao in expression... is all of reality, life and unlife

 

holding none, giving rise to all and harboring nothing, while sheltering all within its influence

 

dao

[flowing hands]

5 hours ago, Zork said:

This is a double edged sword that cuts both ways! Taoism is based on two books. How do you know who wrote each book? Were you present? No you weren't of course. You trust people to hand you over the sayings verbatim.

 

Being a traditional shaman of 37 years My Masters have taught me, one of which is Li Eh (Lao Zi). There are many sources to Dao thinking and practices, all you appear to know is the commonly translated ones. Proper Dao teachings come from proper Dao Masters, who have spent years in learning from theirs teachers or like me have learned  spiritually.

5 hours ago, Zork said:

Chan buddhism disagrees. Any other strawman?

Chan Buddhism is the Chinese version which incorporates common cultural views that are common in Dao. A bit like when Christians came to other countries they would look for the local holy places and then use certain imagery and build a church on those holy places that the natives used before and incorporate some ceremonies. Then there are those that would starve people, imprison them and murder them if they didn't go to church and believe in Jesus and One God.

 

5 hours ago, Zork said:

Where did Jesus talk about the love of god? He talks about the love towards the people not gods.

Without spending hours I do believe there are references about God's love and jesus's.

 

5 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

While I respect your personal level of accomplishment, I can't agree with your assessment or simplification of Christian and Buddhist doctrines, which, even if I do not practice them, respect on some level, on top of the teachings of the Buddha and the Christ, or specifically, Siddartha and Jesus. 

 

I can't comment any further because unfortunately, I do not see analysis or depth of understanding in your arguments, but mostly judgments, and while your specific transmission of the Tao I respect, I do not see it as the authoritative view

 

? 

So says the one with the authoritative knowledge to judge?????

Edited November 18, 2019 by flowing hands
expand on point

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

Being a traditional shaman of 37 years My Masters have taught me, one of which is Li Eh (Lao Zi). There are many sources to Dao thinking and practices, all you appear to know is the commonly translated ones. Proper Dao teachings come from proper Dao Masters, who have spent years in learning from theirs teachers or like me have learned  spiritually.

Chan Buddhism is the Chinese version which incorporates common cultural views that are common in Dao. A bit like when Christians came to other countries they would look for the local holy places and then use certain imagery and build a church on those holy places that the natives used before and incorporate some ceremonies. Then there are those that would starve people, imprison them and murder them if they didn't go to church and believe in Jesus and One God.

 

Without spending hours I do believe there are references about God's love and jesus's.

 

 

? 

So says the one with the authoritative knowledge to judge?????

Wow, who says I made claims about being authoritative or judging you? All I’m doing is pointing out where you’re being judgmental, and this is a weak “I know you are, but what am I?” kind of response that I would expect to NOT come from an adult or a so-called holy man as you.

[Nintendao]

@flowing hands I’m just glad to see you’ve stuck around. I can understand it might be irksome if for instance you’re working your arse off to maintain a fit flying Ferrari and someone comes along saying “meh, my beat up station wagon is really just as good.” It’s just a fact of the times that the dao should flow into myriad diverse, even contemptible, nuances in order to do its work.

 

Christ is a legitimate savior, no matter what “the church” has subsequently  dragged them into. JAJ, in his healing work, rather than turn away a Christian genuinely seeking his aid, on the grounds they can’t believe in his brand of magic, has forged a real and miraculous bridge.

[Zork]

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Being a traditional shaman of 37 years My Masters have taught me, one of which is Li Eh (Lao Zi). There are many sources to Dao thinking and practices, all you appear to know is the commonly translated ones. Proper Dao teachings come from proper Dao Masters, who have spent years in learning from theirs teachers or like me have learned  spiritually.

Are you familiar with eastern christian monastic traditions? You even sound like them!

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Chan Buddhism is the Chinese version which incorporates common cultural views that are common in Dao. A bit like when Christians came to other countries they would look for the local holy places and then use certain imagery and build a church on those holy places that the natives used before and incorporate some ceremonies. Then there are those that would starve people, imprison them and murder them if they didn't go to church and believe in Jesus and One God.

All this is besides the point and another strawman. Is chan buddhism a fusion of buddhism and daoism yes or no? If yes then all the above is just nonsense.

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Without spending hours I do believe there are references about God's love and jesus's.

Seriously? Shifting the burden of proof? You need to find them to back up your argument because i can tell you i have read the thing (Bible) and the references you talk about aren't there! The burden of proof is on you. You claimed that there is mention of "Love of God" in the new testament. Either provide proof or retract your statements.

 

Plus this

 

On 3/24/2019 at 2:39 PM, flowing hands said:

As a genuine Holy man, one of my jobs is to protect the innocent, to expose that which is corrupt; that would lead to the abuse of others. This man denigrates the good name of many practitioners and abuses the name of many of the Immortals in Heaven.

proves that you have messed up your own beliefs. You wrote this months ago and then you are telling me above that taoism doesn't care about fellow man.... 

 

15 hours ago, flowing hands said:

There is no love of other people,

When you clear the confusion inside your brain tell me to respond accordingly. For the time being you aren't making sense nor supporting any arguments. You hold two mutually exclusive views at the same time. Which one is the correct one?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Zork

[Zork]

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

? 

So says the one with the authoritative knowledge to judge?????

you don't get it do you?

We actually like you but you are assuming an aggressive stance against a religion you don't have deep knowledge of.

Do you understand how much degrading your behavior is to your own status?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Zork

[flowing hands]

7 hours ago, Zork said:

proves that you have messed up your own beliefs. You wrote this months ago and then you are telling me above that taoism doesn't care about fellow man.... 

 

 

You constantly show me that you are like a puppy trying break into the adult world, without knowledge and experience. The dao is different to a person who takes on a spiritual path. One is a natural path that one does just as one likes and really has no knowledge of anything else other than what nature supplies. A spiritual person takes on a higher way of thinking on their way to true spiritual understanding and so like your jesus character who you have no proof even existed, a spiritual person cultivates all sorts of things for the understanding of others and themselves. Having this understanding, a true spiritual person is able to help others, for they have been truly challenged in their own life and experienced all sorts of difficulties and so have empathy for others etc etc.

[flowing hands]

7 hours ago, Zork said:

you don't get it do you?

We actually like you but you are assuming an aggressive stance against a religion you don't have deep knowledge of.

Do you understand how much degrading your behavior is to your own status?

 Puppy rubbish, the truth is what is aggravating you, because you don't have any proof that what you believe in is true.

[flowing hands]

11 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Wow, who says I made claims about being authoritative or judging you? All I’m doing is pointing out where you’re being judgmental, and this is a weak “I know you are, but what am I?” kind of response that I would expect to NOT come from an adult or a so-called holy man as you.

Well look at what you have written. You are insulting my Master Li Erh Xian Shi calling his words "not the authoritative view". You are then calling me crap and reinforcing this opinion by saying "so called Holy man". Are you challenging my status?  This is from someone who has made thousands of posts on all sorts of subjects on this site giving his opinion and judgements on many, many subjects. I have told you the truth, I cannot help how the world has turned out, how people have used religion for political manipulation and the manipulation of others. None of you know whether Jesus was alive or not, but like sheep you bleat the same stupid song that the establishment want you to know. The truth is very different and that's all I'm going to say about it.

[Earl Grey]

23 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Well look at what you have written. You are insulting my Master Li Erh Xian Shi calling his words "not the authoritative view". You are then calling me crap and reinforcing this opinion by saying "so called Holy man". Are you challenging my status?  This is from someone who has made thousands of posts on all sorts of subjects on this site giving his opinion and judgements on many, many subjects. I have told you the truth, I cannot help how the world has turned out, how people have used religion for political manipulation and the manipulation of others. None of you know whether Jesus was alive or not, but like sheep you bleat the same stupid song that the establishment want you to know. The truth is very different and that's all I'm going to say about it.

 

Strawman argument. Stop putting words in my mouth, there were no insults--you made a sweeping generalization and made no attempts to give clear references, and now you're directly insulting me by bringing my engagement in this forum outside of this--also a way to initiate the most common form of character assassination.

 

If we're going to bring up the past instead of focusing on what you're doing here and now, let's talk about how I defended you during the Mak Jo Si thread and even sent you messages of support then, of which I am now questioning if it was a good decision with how you're justifying your belligerent comments now, first towards a non-Taoist philosophy, and now towards me and another user. 

 

A holy man will not focus on how high and mighty he is but seek to bring others up, and you, good sir, need to ask yourself what you're doing this moment besides derailing this thread. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Earl Grey