Students of Jerry Alan Johnson

[Zork]

31 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

You constantly show me that you are like a puppy trying break into the adult world, without knowledge and experience. The dao is different to a person who takes on a spiritual path. One is a natural path that one does just as one likes and really has no knowledge of anything else other than what nature supplies. A spiritual person takes on a higher way of thinking on their way to true spiritual understanding and so like your jesus character who you have no proof even existed, a spiritual person cultivates all sorts of things for the understanding of others and themselves. Having this understanding, a true spiritual person is able to help others, for they have been truly challenged in their own life and experienced all sorts of difficulties and so have empathy for others etc etc.

You have 3 options:

A)provide proof for your claims that Jesus talked about the love of God.

B)retract your statements.

C) make a fool of yourself.

 

You chose c.

Nuff said.

[Zork]

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

 Puppy rubbish, the truth is what is aggravating you, because you don't have any proof that what you believe in is true.

Belief is based on faith which is the absence of concrete evidence by definition you moron!

 

And for the record i am not a christian!!!

Didn't the spirits tell you that?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Zork

[Nintendao]

18 hours ago, flowing hands said:

... My Masters have taught me, one of which is Li Eh (Lao Zi) ...

 

What's he like in person? He seems nice.

 

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

None of you know whether Jesus was alive or not, but like sheep you bleat the same stupid song that the establishment want you to know.

 

Well this just sounds like what those with vendetta against ruler-wielding penguins say.

 

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

The truth is very different and that's all I'm going to say about it.

 

... indeed,

 

Spoiler

 

 

[flowing hands]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Strawman argument. Stop putting words in my mouth, there were no insults--you made a sweeping generalization and made no attempts to give clear references, and now you're directly insulting me by bringing my engagement in this forum outside of this--also a way to initiate the most common form of character assassination.

 

If we're going to bring up the past instead of focusing on what you're doing here and now, let's talk about how I defended you during the Mak Jo Si thread and even sent you messages of support then, of which I am now questioning if it was a good decision with how you're justifying your belligerent comments now, first towards a non-Taoist philosophy, and now towards me and another user. 

 

A holy man will not focus on how high and mighty he is but seek to bring others up, and you, good sir, need to ask yourself what you're doing this moment besides derailing this thread. 

 

What a cheek you have, I never called your teachers teaching 'unauthoritative'. Nor did I say that you are acting like a child, which you did. All I am saying is that you seem to think its ok for you to spread your opinion and judgements around, but when it doesn't suit,  you accuse others, in this instance me, of doing what you do yourself. In the bargain Lao Shi my master, somehow doesn't know what he's writing about and I'm being called a "so called Holyman" because I'm trying to educate people who are stuck like mud. People in glass houses and all that. What the hell do you know about being a Holy man? Another unqualified opinion no doubt?

[flowing hands]

1 hour ago, Zork said:

Belief is based on faith which is the absence of concrete evidence by definition you moron!

 

And for the record i am not a christian!!!

Didn't the spirits tell you that?

 I don't give damn what you are or what you think you are. It's the dribble that you write tells me all!!!!

[flowing hands]

9 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

What's he like in person? He seems nice.

 

He is succinct, concise and very generous to a fault. He rarely comes to shamans where he is believed in, in the various sects he belongs to. That's why when he came to me and taught me his teachings back in 1987, it was a great honour. If you go to the temples, it is usually the other Immortal masters that will come of the sect.

[Earl Grey]

14 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

What a cheek you have, I never called your teachers teaching 'unauthoritative'. Nor did I say that you are acting like a child, which you did. All I am saying is that you seem to think its ok for you to spread your opinion and judgements around, but when it doesn't suit,  you accuse others, in this instance me, of doing what you do yourself. In the bargain Lao Shi my master, somehow doesn't know what he's writing about and I'm being called a "so called Holyman" because I'm trying to educate people who are stuck like mud. People in glass houses and all that. What the hell do you know about being a Holy man? Another unqualified opinion no doubt?

 

So you are the one, the true, the only way? You are also projecting and again putting words in my mouth and derailing this thread. 

 

Any respect I once had for you is 100% gone now, as you sound no different from a fundamentalist with your "I am fucking holier-than-thou" attitude. I never made any judgments here, all I did was say that you were acting in an unbecoming way of your status as a "holy man" for making such an absolute judgment against Jesus, and I'm not even Christian, as well as rejecting any other Taoist whose thinking does not align with your absolutes. 

 

The first and final chapters of the TTC both talk about how the Tao can't be named, yet that which we call the Tao isn't the Tao. And true words aren't beautiful, nor are beautiful words true. In this case, neither truth nor beauty is found in your words, but you sure love to say what is and isn't Tao as though the buck stops there.

 

Why don't you quit trashing this thread because this is about JAJ, not your stagnant myopia and sanctimonious excrement? 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Zork]

12 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 I don't give damn what you are or what you think you are. It's the dribble that you write tells me all!!!!

Whatever moron!

You talk about dribles like a true master of strawmen that you are. Did you show proof? Nope. Case closed! You aren't a taoist priest. There are more chances that your first name is priest. Idiot!

[Zork]

2 hours ago, flowing hands said:

None of you know whether Jesus was alive or not, but like sheep you bleat the same stupid song that the establishment want you to know.

That goes for any master that hasn't been recorded by historians moron!

[flowing hands]

13 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

So you are the one, the true, the only way? You are also projecting and again putting words in my mouth and derailing this thread. 

 

Any respect I once had for you is 100% gone now, as you sound no different from a fundamentalist with your "I am fucking holier-than-thou" attitude. I never made any judgments here, all I did was say that you were acting in an unbecoming way of your status as a "holy man" for making such an absolute judgment against Jesus, and I'm not even Christian, as well as rejecting any other Taoist whose thinking does not align with your absolutes. 

 

The first and final chapters of the TTC both talk about how the Tao can't be named, yet that which we call the Tao isn't the Tao. And true words aren't beautiful, nor are beautiful words true. In this case, neither truth nor beauty is found in your words, but you sure love to say what is and isn't Tao as though the buck stops there.

 

Why don't you quit trashing this thread because this is about JAJ, not your stagnant myopia and sanctimonious excrement? 

 

You wrote them remember. Do I give a damn what you think? Any respect I had for you went as soon as you insulted my Master. So now its fine to support a scammer who charges thousands of dollars who gets his teachings from books and the internet? Soon turn turtle when the crap hits your fan! Who's the person who has talked to Jesus.. you?

[Earl Grey]

51 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

You wrote them remember. Do I give a damn what you think? Any respect I had for you went as soon as you insulted my Master. So now its fine to support a scammer who charges thousands of dollars who gets his teachings from books and the internet? Soon turn turtle when the crap hits your fan! Who's the person who has talked to Jesus.. you?

Where did I insult your master? All I did was say “so-called” because YOUR BEHAVIOR was condescending and judgmental, and you made a false conclusion by putting words in my mouth to suit your victim narrative. I even said I respect you and your lineage, IN CASE YOU DID NOT EVEN READ THE BLOODY POST. Go back and see for yourself!

 

Right here:

 

On 11/18/2019 at 10:40 PM, Earl Grey said:

 

While I respect your personal level of accomplishment, I can't agree with your assessment or simplification of Christian and Buddhist doctrines, which, even if I do not practice them, respect on some level, on top of the teachings of the Buddha and the Christ, or specifically, Siddartha and Jesus. 

 

I can't comment any further because unfortunately, I do not see analysis or depth of understanding in your arguments, but mostly judgments, and while your specific transmission of the Tao I respect, I do not see it as the authoritative view. 

 

NO INSULT TO YOUR MASTER. YOU ARE MAKING UP COMPLETE NONSENSE.

 

And who the hell are you talking about as a scammer that you’re now alleging that I’m supporting?

 

You really are a sanctimonious turd and have no ability to listen, and now it’s abundantly clear you’re no holy man because you’ve made no effort to understand but instead to judge and throw your fists in the air like the puerile cur that you’re revealing yourself to be now.

 

Better stop posting because now you’re just forcing your agenda here and derailing the thread, while offering nothing of use to the OP or any of us.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Dainin]

Just wanted to point out that Johnson seems to be teaching his Christian material separately from his Daoist and qigong material and not conflating them:

 

https://www.thenewchristianmystics.com/

 

https://www.daoistmagic.com/

 

Also, sutras discovered at Dunhuang in the early 1900s indicate that some Daoists were trying to incorporate Yeshua into Daoism as far back as around 600 AD:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Sutras-Rediscovering-Scrolls-Christianity/dp/0345434242

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Sutras-Jesus-Unlocking-Ancient/dp/1569755221/

 

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Sayings-Ye-Silk-Gospel/dp/0595336841

[flowing hands]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

while your specific transmission of the Tao I respect, I do not see it as the authoritative view. 

 

If I was like you and thank the Immortals I'm not, I would be calling you all sorts of unpleasant names. 

So the Father of Dao (Lao Shi), it's Dao and the word is pronounced 'Dough' In Mandarin, does not have the authoritative view? His word as taught to me has no substance and you merely pay lip service to it like you would to anyone else? Is that not an insult?

So answer me that Lord Earl Grey, lord of balance, knower of everything and nothing who must never be questioned. What you have called me is in fact more pertaining to you.

[flowing hands]

38 minutes ago, Dainin said:

Just wanted to point out that Johnson seems to be teaching his Christian material separately from his Daoist and qigong material and not conflating them:

 

https://www.thenewchristianmystics.com/

 

https://www.daoistmagic.com/

 

Also, sutras discovered at Dunhuang in the early 1900s indicate that some Daoists were trying to incorporate Yeshua into Daoism as far back as around 600 AD:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Sutras-Rediscovering-Scrolls-Christianity/dp/0345434242

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Sutras-Jesus-Unlocking-Ancient/dp/1569755221/

 

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Sayings-Ye-Silk-Gospel/dp/0595336841

 

Yes great changes actually occurred with Chang Tao Ling. Folk Dao has gone through many changes where it occurs incorporating practices from Hindu and Buddhism to name but two. Generally, though teachings that have come from certain lineages remain very much the same, but are hard to find now as many sects have been altered by governments or masters have died out and not passed on the teachings. What remains in temples in China tend to be the flashy robe lot and watered down martial arts in line with the government policies of religion. In Taiwan one may find a genuine master. Master Chang was one that Saso wrote about.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, flowing hands said:

If I was like you and thank the Immortals I'm not

 

If you were like me, you would be thanking the immortals, because not being like you is a huge improvement already.

 

2 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

I would be calling you all sorts of unpleasant names

 

You began the accusations, bub. Not me. I pointed out your behavior and don't recognize your pope, cleric, rabbi, or master as mine. If I were a Muslim who said I don't recognize the authority of the Catholic pope, is that an insult? Nope, it's just my belief--he's your authority, not mine. When you continued putting words in my mouth, then I called a horse a horse, which is what you are, Mr. Ed. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

So the Father of Dao (Lao Shi), it's Dao and the word is pronounced 'Dough' In Mandarin

 

I get the feeling that you don't speak Mandarin. By the way: I speak Mandarin.

 

7 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

does not have the authoritative view?

 

Not to me. To your lineage, yes, but he does not speak for everyone, and you are beginning to sound like the very fundamentalist Christians that you abhor with this absolute authority you're claiming. 

 

8 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

His word as taught to me has no substance

 

It has substance. I just don't find it is universal. 

 

8 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

and you merely pay lip service to it like you would to anyone else?

 

Oh, now you're making assumptions about what I would do. 

 

9 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Is that not an insult?

 

Do you not find it absurd that someone who isn't a convert to your sect to be insulting to you? If that's the case, 99% of this forum would be insulting you. But in truth, they would insult you because you're just acting holier-than-thou now, no other reason. 

 

10 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

So answer me that Lord Earl Grey, lord of balance, knower of everything and nothing who must never be questioned.

 

Spare me the passive-aggression, flowing hands, and act your age--unless your age is 4 years-old. 

 

11 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

What you have called me is in fact more pertaining to you.

 

Oh my lord: you do love using the "I know you are, but what am I?" response. Besides the fact you've used it twice here now, it sure ain't original. 

 

 

 

[flowing hands]

4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

If you were like me, you would be thanking the immortals, because not being like you is a huge improvement already.

 

 

You began the accusations, bub. Not me. I pointed out your behavior and don't recognize your pope, cleric, rabbi, or master as mine. If I were a Muslim who said I don't recognize the authority of the Catholic pope, is that an insult? Nope, it's just my belief--he's your authority, not mine. When you continued putting words in my mouth, then I called a horse a horse, which is what you are, Mr. Ed. 

 

 

 

I get the feeling that you don't speak Mandarin. By the way: I speak Mandarin.

 

 

Not to me. To your lineage, yes, but he does not speak for everyone, and you are beginning to sound like the very fundamentalist Christians that you abhor with this absolute authority you're claiming. 

 

 

It has substance. I just don't find it is universal. 

 

 

Oh, now you're making assumptions about what I would do. 

 

 

Do you not find it absurd that someone who isn't a convert to your sect to be insulting to you? If that's the case, 99% of this forum would be insulting you. But in truth, they would insult you because you're just acting holier-than-thou now, no other reason. 

 

 

Spare me the passive-aggression, flowing hands, and act your age--unless your age is 4 years-old. 

 

 

Oh my lord: you do love using the "I know you are, but what am I?" response. Besides the fact you've used it twice here now, it sure ain't original. 

 

 

 

 

Waste of space

[Earl Grey]

14 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Waste of space

 

Glad you're acknowledging who you really are. Holy Man? More like Holy Shit.

 

By the way: everyone has seen just who you really are in this thread, which, at this point, is all about you and your lineage, NOT JAJ. 

 

And you still haven't shown how I'm supporting a scammer like you said in your filthy lie above in your posts. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Zork]

19 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Waste of space

The same goes for the physical space you occupy.

Leave the thread and cease diverting it with unfounded and unsupported nonsense!

[Earl Grey]

Just now, Zork said:

The same goes for the physical space you occupy.

Leave the thread and cease diverting it with unfounded and unsupported nonsense!

 

He's probably going to do some mumbo jumbo curse and we're probably supposed to take him seriously because he's a hOlY mAn. 

 

[flowing hands]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

He's probably going to do some mumbo jumbo curse and we're probably supposed to take him seriously because he's a hOlY mAn. 

 

 

You are such an idiot

[Zork]

5 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

You are such an idiot

And you are a disgrace to your lineage. Or you lineage sucks big time. Who on his right mind would ordain a bipolar like you?

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matt.7:16

Enjoy!

Edited November 19, 2019 by Zork

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

You are such an idiot

 

I have been blessed by the hOlY mAn!

 

Sha-la, head-sha-la....

[flowing hands]

15 minutes ago, Zork said:

The same goes for the physical space you occupy.

Leave the thread and cease diverting it with unfounded and unsupported nonsense!

Hey Dork sorry Zork, get a life if you can find one, you might make it out of puppyhood.

[silent thunder]

I picture Jerry, reading this... 

Imagine his response and it's nothing like anything I'm seeing by anyone participating...

Perhaps we wait and see if anyone of his students has more to share?

 

I spent time in conversation with one of his students, during a 10 day retreat with Wang Li Ping.

He saw me studying from Jerry's book and struck up a conversation that evolved over the 10 days we spent together into a memorable sharing of different lineages.  It was a flowing, open conversation that was characterized by mutual benefit.  He was curious why I studied another lineage's book so intently when not openly studying with them and I replied.  Dao flows from and to all.  One of the few remaining impossible things I still affirm, is the false notion that anything ever anywhere, could ever be separated from Dao by even a hair's width for a millisecond... ever.  So I am open to the flow and trust the anchor of dao in my own awareness to ferret out that which is beneficial to me, and that which is not. 

 

When i encounter that which is not beneficial, i no longer see any benefit in attacking it.  I let it lie as it does and I move on.

I have so much energy to work with on any given day... i no longer see benefit in spending it on what I despise in the moment.

 

I find my energy is much more poignant when used supporting what I love, than in attacking what I find repulsive/unhelpful.

 

I found him and his knowledge well rounded, his energy deeply rooted and his reaction to encountering unexpected and unwelcome news to be adroit, mature and respectfully distancing.  He never once bristled, attacked alien concepts, nor childishly admonished views that differed from his own.  In my recall of my time with him, he was a reflective credit to his master and his school.

 

A helpful reminder... this thread.  Thanks for it.  I'm reopening Jerry's book and seeing what is calling me out of this conversation's result.

 

Spoiler

 

[Zork]

24 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Hey Dork sorry Zork, get a life if you can find one, you might make it out of puppyhood.

Too late moron. I already have a life.

Now stfu and get out of the thread. You don't know anything about christ and you have no authority to speak on behalf of taoism.