Jim (Marblehead) crossed over the line on 8 December...

[Taomeow]

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Edited December 8, 2019 by Taomeow

[liminal_luke]

30 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

.

 

Aw darn!  Stepped out for a minute.  Came back and got a notification that I was "mentioned" but too late.  

[Taomeow]

36 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Aw darn!  Stepped out for a minute.  Came back and got a notification that I was "mentioned" but too late.  

 

But you more or less guessed what I said and why, right?  I just decided a moment later that I shouldn't try to steal your thunder in case you want to say something yourself about that "ladies" entry.  

[liminal_luke]

46 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

But you more or less guessed what I said and why, right?  I just decided a moment later that I shouldn't try to steal your thunder in case you want to say something yourself about that "ladies" entry.  

 

Thanks. I figure it was probably an honest mistake on Limahong´s part.  Still, it´s worth noting that Marblehead had a thing for the ladies and I wouldn´t have met his criteria.  

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Aw darn!  Stepped out for a minute.  Came back and got a notification that I was "mentioned" but too late.

 

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

But you more or less guessed what I said and why, right?  I just decided a moment later that I shouldn't try to steal your thunder in case you want to say something yourself about that "ladies" entry.

 

Ladies,

 

I just woke up after last late night. What is going on?

I have always thought that yin is less troublesome than yang.

Yes/no?

 

- Anand

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

I figure it was probably an honest mistake on Limahong´s part.

 

Don't get me into trouble. I just came back from Sunday church...

Amen

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

I shouldn't try to steal your thunder

 

BTW ~ thunder is yang... case in point Thunder Goddess...

 

      

 

Ladies ~ don't steal HIS thunder.

 

 

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Marblehead had a thing for the ladies and I wouldn´t have met his criteria.  

 

He's of German lineage...

 

 

 

[wandelaar]

8 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

That´s beautiful.  I remember when I first discovered that Bums had official friends here.  Not sure whether that´s still a part of the profile page or not, but back then you could officially "friend" someone and their avatar showed up as your friend on your page.  Anyway, I bemoaned the fact that I didn´t have any friends.  Or not many anyway, I forget.  Marblehead stepped forward and officially friended me saying that he wanted to be a friend to everyone.  We saw things differently politically, had different cultural affiliations, but Marblehead crossed the aisle to see me as a person.  It felt good.

 

Politics is the one and only thing we greatly disagreed about, but this was no problem to him. Good to remember that the chasm can be bridged in these times of heavy polarization.

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

Politics is the one and only thing we greatly disagreed about, but this was no problem to him. Good to remember that the chasm can be bridged in these times of heavy polarization.

 

Hi Bro,

 

Can you please persuade the two fairy ladies to join us at The Quiet Corner Bar & Grille re our final hours with Jim ~ to better balance the yin-yang equation?

 

If they can be there ~ I will return to TDB on X'mas Eve to provide more virtual food.

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

THANK YOU EVERYONE.

[sean]

7 hours ago, Limahong said:

Can you please persuade the two fairy ladies to join us at The Quiet Corner Bar & Grille re our final hours with Jim ~ to better balance the yin-yang equation?

 

Can you please go fuck yourself.

 

(Also, I unironically love fairies of all genders so good try. 🥰)

 

[Apech]

5 hours ago, sean said:

 

Can you please go fuck yourself.

 

(Also, I unironically love fairies of all genders so good try. 🥰)

 

 

He's commemorating the anniversary of the death of a good friend to many of us here.  You may object to his use of language but telling to go fuck himself is a bit harsh don't you think?

[silent thunder]

Anand/Lima sent me an email a couple hours ago, that I just now read, saying he'd been banned...

 

[Apech]

20 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Anand/Lima sent me an email a couple hours ago, that I just now read, saying he'd been banned...

 

 

 

Jesus H. Christ!

[liminal_luke]

I wish things were a little more chill around here these days.  There are multiple threads going on right now calling out particular members, flame wars raging out of control.  If only I really was a fairy and could dust this place with be-nice powder -- I think we need it. 

 

The current bruhaha started a page or so back when Limahong referred to Taomeow and I as "ladies."  I´m not a lady and posted a reply making this clear.  I also stated that I felt Limahong made an honest mistake about my gender.  Such mistakes are easy to make as we (mostly) haven´t met in person; I´ve made such mistakes here myself.  Subsequent posts by Limahong made it clear, however, that he was misrepresenting my gender intentionally, and, when he went so far as to call me a fairy, I decided to make a report.  

 

I´m gay and this isn´t the first time I´ve been called a fairy.  It´s a standard homophobic slur and that´s how I took it.  That said, I had no idea Limahong would be banned.  I´ll go so far as to ask @sean that he be reinstated.  (Maybe he could be requested to edit the fairy post.)  Don´t get me wrong -- it´s wonderful having a moderator who so clearly stands up for the dignity of all people.  I´m thrilled.  But if we go around banning everybody who has ever made a racist, homophobic, transphobic, or "right wing bullshit" remark there will be precious few of us left.

 

We´re all in this together.  In life together, online together.  We´ve all been hurt and are at various stages of dealing with the varied stuff life has thrown at us.  A few of us are veritable sages or on the verge of sagehood; others, not so much.  But the beauty of a place like this is that every once in awhile we all come together in mutual respect and glorious imperfection. 

 

Lets honor Marblehood´s memory with our kindness. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I wish things were a little more chill around here these days.  There are multiple threads going on right now calling out particular members, flame wars raging out of control.  If only I really was a fairy and could dust this place with be-nice powder -- I think we need it. 

 

The current bruhaha started a page or so back when Limahong referred to Taomeow and I as "ladies."  I´m not a lady and posted a reply making this clear.  I also stated that I felt Limahong made an honest mistake about my gender.  Such mistakes are easy to make as we (mostly) haven´t met in person; I´ve made such mistakes here myself.  Subsequent posts by Limahong made it clear, however, that he was misrepresenting my gender intentionally, and, when he went so far as to call me a fairy, I decided to make a report.  

 

I´m gay and this isn´t the first time I´ve been called a fairy.  It´s a standard homophobic slur and that´s how I took it.  That said, I had no idea Limahong would be banned.  I´ll go so far as to ask @sean that he be reinstated.  (Maybe he could be requested to edit the fairy post.)  Don´t get me wrong -- it´s wonderful having a moderator who so clearly stands up for the dignity of all people.  I´m thrilled.  But if we go around banning everybody who has ever made a racist, homophobic, transphobic, or "right wing bullshit" remark there will be precious few of us left.

 

We´re all in this together.  In life together, online together.  We´ve all been hurt and are at various stages of dealing with the varied stuff life has thrown at us.  A few of us are veritable sages or on the verge of sagehood; others, not so much.  But the beauty of a place like this is that every once in awhile we all come together in mutual respect and glorious imperfection. 

 

Lets honor Marblehood´s memory with our kindness. 

 

Forgiveness, openness, understanding, and love means people learning and advocating you. Okay, the acronym may be FOUL PLAY, but I think it could definitely fit in the spirit of Marbles, and is something that we had a laugh with in a workshop a while back when talking about our spiritual community. 

 

We've all made mistakes before, but to be punished immediately for a slip-up is a lot like McCarthyist witch hunting for communists in the 1950s.

 

When I was growing up in the 80s in America and then moving to Southeast Asia in the late 90s, I was around both westerners from older generations and locals with cultural values that were very much not gay-friendly. Returning to the US, my first two years there in San Francisco I would consider good times because I was around a lot of tolerant and understanding friends who said, "Hey pal, we actually don't say that term anymore (fag hag, which became fruit fly)" and "Hey buddy, we wouldn't consider those jokes as funny ourselves" when referencing an old episode of Married: With Children or All in the Family and movies like Monster Squad where the kids themselves called the principal "homo".

 

None of it was calling out or ostracizing--it was them knowing that I didn't know any better, and after a lot more friendliness, the sensitivity developed naturally, as there was none of this knee-jerk punishment. It was friendly reminders and them having enough empathy to realize that I was American by citizenship but very Asian and culturally closer to older generations--not even the Baby Boomers, but the Silent Generation and earlier, for they were the people I was around growing up and my youth peers were fellow Gen-Xers. 

 

So once I got a couple years of informal education through exposure and friendships with understanding people who were also very forgiving, I didn't just learn sensitivity that was desired by a group of people, I actually stopped seeing them as "my gay friends" and just saw them as my friends who also happened to be gay if the concept of relationships ever came up--a detail that only was necessary in context as much as needing to know if someone's dietary restrictions had to be considered when going out as a group for pizza, not a distinct characteristic of who they are. 

 

Short version: let Lima back--he is an old man in his 70s from Singapore and doesn't know a lot about American and western progressive values, but he's certainly not the kind of Trump supporter that poisoned the forum for several years. 

[sean]

FWIW the ban is only until January 1st 2020. Hopefully he can figure out how not to act like a passive-aggressive homophobe in the meantime.

 

[ilumairen]

4 minutes ago, sean said:

FWIW the ban is only until January 1st 2020. Hopefully he can figure out how not to act like a passive-aggressive homophobe in the meantime.

 

 

Could we then call it a suspension instead?

[sean]

4 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Could we then call it a suspension instead?

 

Sure, yep, I just say ban because in the Admin panel there's only ban, either permanently or until a certain time.

 

[Earl Grey]

A time-out is a fair compromise. As he has friends off forum who can e-mail him this (including me), I'll be sure to let him know what I can. 

 

In the meanwhile, I will share a similar situation in which a man close to Lima's age and of Southeast Asian descent was met with western progressive norms marching on past him, and how he didn't necessarily mean offense, but was willing to learn when someone pointed out that if he didn't, he wouldn't be invited to such institutions in the future (or get funding, for that matter): 

 

https://www.rappler.com/move-ph/balikbayan/news/94286-gawad-kalinga-tony-meloto-sexist-speech-hawaii

 

https://www.rappler.com/move-ph/balikbayan/94381-gawad-kalinga-tony-meloto

 

Full disclosure: I've met and worked with the man, and he is anything but a bigot--it's the older Filipino generation's humor that is at best tolerated as a relic of his times and seen as off-putting to the youth--particularly Filipino Millennials who live in Manila. 

 

Lima and that generation have some similarities with off-color humor as a means of playful teasing to denote trust and closeness befitting friends who get one another and know it’s love, not malice, but end result: the behavior not appropriate at this juncture for the forum, and I will be in touch with him.

 

Thanks Sean. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Earl Grey

[moment]

Ah! The pendulum swings are fueled by the convictions of knowing!

Edited December 9, 2019 by moment

[wandelaar]

The result of all this will be that still more Bums who hate fanaticism of whatever kind will permanently leave this place.

[moment]

All or nothing is the exact opposite of balance.  Sadly, all or nothing is the norm now-a-days and is becoming boring.

[Nintendao]

9 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

particularly Filipino Millennials who live in Manila

 

Say that three times fast 😅