Connection between tao and christianity

[chaugnar]

My friend is married to a christian.he is struggling to integrate belief systems.he asked if there was a link of tao to christ.i said yes there is.im seeking more info.

[Everything]

Dao is the eternal and infinite source of all creation, that which people call God, of which we are all inseperable extensions of it. As we are all the children of Dao/God. Like Jesus. 

[Nintendao]

 

[dawei]

22 hours ago, chaugnar said:

My friend is married to a christian.he is struggling to integrate belief systems.he asked if there was a link of tao to christ.i said yes there is.im seeking more info.

 

I'm curious if this interest in a 'link' is more intellectual/philosophical (no problem exists) or moral/ethical (there is a problem).

 

I can only assume, based on a title, that your friend holds taoist beliefs?   Or is this only your own personal inquiry ?

 

Christianity: A single god that is transcendent, omniscient, omnipotent, and immanent. 

 

Daoism:  Shit [naturally] happens. 

 

[Jeff]

On 12/3/2019 at 6:44 PM, chaugnar said:

My friend is married to a christian.he is struggling to integrate belief systems.he asked if there was a link of tao to christ.i said yes there is.im seeking more info.

 

If you are talking about the institutional view of Christianity, then no.  But if you are talking about the actual teachings of Jesus found in the gospels, then they are very similar.  Even though it did not make the Roman version of the Bible, I would highly recommend the Gospel of Thomas as it’s teachings are very similar to the Tao Te Ching.  In particular look at chapter 28 of the TTC regarding a ruler immortal, and it is basically the same as a Christ (son of God).

 

Getting people to cross intellectual boundaries is very hard. Good luck. 

[gendao]

More like on opposite ends of the spectrum?  Better get used to the dog house?

[SirPalomides]

There are important differences but plenty of common ground too. I attended a lecture by an Orthodox Christian monk who had spent time in China among Taoist and Buddhist monks. When the Buddhists quizzed him about his beliefs, they told him, "you sound like one of those Taoists" (this was meant is fairly condescending way). And indeed he seemed to have gotten along much better with the Taoists.

 

Taoists wanting to engage with Christianity on an intellectual level would do well to read The Divine Names by Dionysius the Areopagite and the Ambigua by Maximus the Confessor. It does help to recognize that there is a lot more to Christianity than the decrepit institutional face it often wears today. Think of classic Christianity as a Hellenistic mystery religion, with heavy infusions of Neoplatonic theology and Stoic asceticism. The eucharist is basically a theurgic magickal rite.

Edited December 6, 2019 by SirPalomides

[gendao]

Of course, there is some truth embedded in Christianity, since a lot of it was cut & pasted from older Sumerian and other tales...

 

And of course many Christians have had spiritual experiences.  Even your regular, run-of-the-mill ones.

 

But this is generally not really from following actual Christian doctrines.  But because a sincere seeker will get in touch with Spirit, regardless of whatever club he belongs to.

 

As far as the more "spiritually-developed" Christians...they usually have incorporated aspects of other forms of spirituality either personally, or as subsumed into cultural Christianity as it colonized the world.  And as their eyes continue to open to the common universality of spirituality, some of them simply drop their exclusive Christian gateway drug altogether...

I mean, a typical "evolved" Christian has to basically ignore all the Old Testament warmongering, patriarchal tribalism...so is actually not even a Christian anymore, even if they claim to be.

Quote

Nahum 1:2  The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and vents his wrath against his enemies.

Deuteronomy 18:14  The nations you are about to displace consult sorcerers and fortune-tellers, but the LORD your God forbids you to do such things.”

Exodus 22:18  Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Deuteronomy 12:12  These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land.  Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains, on the hills and under every spreading tree, where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods.  Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles [MOTHER GODDESS SACRED TREE] in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places.

In a nutshell, Christianity was about destroying the sacred feminine, tree of life, and colonizing the planet for its ET Anunnaki puppetmasters.  Basically, Abraham's monotheism was just cutting the whole FEMININE out of the polar equation!  As opposed to Daoism's preservation of BOTH!

Ergo, Christianity is essentially the opposite of Daoism and other more holistic, aboriginal/shamanistic-based "Earth wisdom" paths.

Edited December 8, 2019 by gendao

[SirPalomides]

That's a deeply simplistic and polemical way of looking at Christianity.

[gendao]

20 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

That's a deeply simplistic and polemical way of looking at Christianity.

And what's wrong with the simple truth?  I would argue that seeing the big picture is primary, before all the details...

 

Or how about this...this same jealous and avenging whackjob also adulterously knocked up a man's fiancée...and then instructed that man to marry her anyways and raise his bastard love child.  Who he later had sacrificed up on a cross.  To pay for his own guilt trip on humanity's sins...like adultery.

 

 

It's almost like this was written as a failed BDSM deviant fanfic...but then repackaged as a holy text.

Edited December 6, 2019 by gendao

[SirPalomides]

Super edgy take, bro. Take it to a Christian forum, they'll be really impressed.

[gendao]

48 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

Super edgy take, bro. Take it to a Christian forum, they'll be really impressed.

Might not be a bad idea...why only preach to the choir here?  Got any idea what the best or most popular mainstream ones are?

[SirPalomides]

19 hours ago, gendao said:

Might not be a bad idea...why only preach to the choir here?  Got any idea what the best or most popular mainstream ones are?

 I know of a few but I’m not sufficiently malicious to facilitate inflicting your nonsense on them.

 

The Annunaki paid me 12 Nibirian credits to write this post.

[flowing hands]

?

Edited June 24, 2020 by flowing hands
typo

[flowing hands]

On 12/5/2019 at 2:35 AM, Jeff said:

 

If you are talking about the institutional view of Christianity, then no.  But if you are talking about the actual teachings of Jesus found in the gospels, then they are very similar.  Even though it did not make the Roman version of the Bible, I would highly recommend the Gospel of Thomas as it’s teachings are very similar to the Tao Te Ching.  In particular look at chapter 28 of the TTC regarding a ruler immortal, and it is basically the same as a Christ (son of God).

 

Getting people to cross intellectual boundaries is very hard. Good luck. 

 

"

Edited June 24, 2020 by flowing hands

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

 

Complete nonsense I'm afraid. Gospel of St Thomas has been rewritten anyway, the original never had anything about Jesus resurrecting.

 

I think you may be confusing the Gospel of Thomas with some other book/gospel.  The Gospel of Thomas was found at Nag Hammadi in 1945 with a large number of ancient Christian documents. The Gospel of Thomas does not describe (or deny) Jesus’s divinity.

 

For those with ears to listen, and hearts to hear...

 

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

 

Here is a brief overview for anyone who is interested...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

[flowing hands]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:18 PM, Jeff said:

 

I think you may be confusing the Gospel of Thomas with some other book/gospel.  The Gospel of Thomas was found at Nag Hammadi in 1945 with a large number of ancient Christian documents. The Gospel of Thomas does not describe (or deny) Jesus’s divinity.

 

For those with ears to listen, and hearts to hear...

 

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

 

Here is a brief overview for anyone who is interested...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

 

£

Edited June 24, 2020 by flowing hands

[Zork]

18 hours ago, flowing hands said:

The trouble with this site is many do not really understand Dao and there is many who believe the words of the Bible as being truth. Of course it is not, it is a second rendition of what someone did or said. When one looks at the world and belief systems, the world was virtually made up of polytheistic understandings. In a tiny corner of the middle east the 'one god' belief system has been established. Yet this one god system has sought in one way or another to destroy other belief systems and spread their second hand teachings to the world branding people as sinful and fearful of the one god. Women have been persecuted and still today under this abhorrent, do not have the same rights as men. Abortion is one hot topic. When I used to teach Trad. Martial arts I have been told to leave the halls if it had any connection with Christianity. Up and down the country Kung Fu teachers were being chucked out of old church halls because they were not Christians and yet I have taught and helped many Christians in my lifetime. What does this say?

Take up the watercourse way and kick the one god sinners into touch, for they sin against humanity and all life.

That is what happens when an ignorant on christianity insists on stating his opinions as absolute fact. Seriously old geezer, are you even taoist?

The taoists i have met are anything but absolute.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Zork

[Walker]

1 hour ago, Zork said:

That is what happens when an ignorant on christianity insists on stating his opinions as absolute fact. Seriously old geezer, are you even taoist?

The taoists i have met are anything but absolute.

 

I'm also mystified by this (paraphrasing):

 

Flowing Hands: "Don't believe anything the Christians say about heaven because they can't prove anything."

 

Same Flowing Hands: "You must believe everything I have to say about heaven, even though I can't prove anything."

 

Like, ok, guy.

[Jeff]

15 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

As I have said to you before and it is very plain, this is all hearsay. Did Jesus say this? It's all second hand. Most ancient manuscripts are not written by the people or characters that are supposed to have done or said this. You are believing in  this just because you have a psychological need to believe, nothing more, nothing less, otherwise you would admit not only to yourself but to others that you just can't be sure that the words in the bible are true. The same as the DDJ; how far from the original some chapters go from the source. Even then, it depends on your understanding how to interrupt the words of Li Erh. So it is the same for all ancient second hand recording of events and characters. I could quite easily say, being a Daoist that all the events and characters in the Xi Yu Ji are real; some are, but certainly not all. So I wouldn't take this as sacrosanct.

 

It is simply a teaching of Jesus. Also, it is the content and related knowing that is the important thing, not the specific words themself. To make it easier for all to hear (and know in their hearts), I am charging (and activating) this following verse. Starting a fire that burns...

 

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

 

Truly know yourself... It starts in the heart...

[flowing hands]

On 12/8/2019 at 1:00 PM, Walker said:

 

I'm also mystified by this (paraphrasing):

 

Flowing Hands: "Don't believe anything the Christians say about heaven because they can't prove anything."

 

Same Flowing Hands: "You must believe everything I have to say about heaven, even though I can't prove anything."

 

Like, ok, guy.

 

"

Edited June 24, 2020 by flowing hands

[Walker]

17 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

clever dick

 

Wait. Who told you my street name?

 

Ok, so how do you propose to prove to us that you're actually talking to Laozi?

 

You claiming to be possessed doesn't make you any more credible to any of us than the average pair of Mormons on bicycles.

 

If you can offer the world no more proof than "take my word for it," well...

 

I suspect the answer most sensible men, women, and others with clever, astute, and intrepid private parts like my own will give you is:

 

"No."

[gendao]

21 hours ago, Jeff said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

Just like I said, all "evolved" "Christians," predictably and WITHOUT EXCEPTION...ignore the entire first HALF of the Bible, and supplant it with cherry-picked verses and apocryphal books not even officially in the Bible...as well as with other more "evolved" spiritual traditions (generally Eastern, New Age, and/or aboriginal "shamanic") - that the first half of the monopolizing Bible all expressly forbid by punishment of death as fierce competition in its spiritual marketplace.  I have yet to find ONE exception to this type of apologetic Christian/New Age Pagan-in-denial.

Edited December 8, 2019 by gendao

[Walker]

13 minutes ago, gendao said:

Just like I said, all "evolved" "Christians," predictably and WITHOUT EXCEPTION...ignore the entire first HALF of the Bible, and supplant it with cherry-picked verses and apocryphal books not even officially in the Bible...as well as with other more "evolved" spiritual traditions (generally Eastern, New Age, and/or aboriginal "shamanic") - that the first half of the monopolizing Bible all expressly forbids by punishment of death as fierce competition in its spiritual marketplace.  I have yet to find ONE exception to this type of apologetic Christian/New Age Pagan-in-denial.

 

Did anybody ever tell ya that if you want the Dao to agree with you, you've got to agree with it first?

[SirPalomides]

30 minutes ago, gendao said:

Just like I said, all "evolved" "Christians," predictably and WITHOUT EXCEPTION...ignore the entire first HALF of the Bible, and supplant it with cherry-picked verses and apocryphal books not even officially in the Bible...as well as with other more "evolved" spiritual traditions (generally Eastern, New Age, and/or aboriginal "shamanic") - that the first half of the monopolizing Bible all expressly forbid by punishment of death as fierce competition in its spiritual marketplace.  I have yet to find ONE exception to this type of apologetic Christian/New Age Pagan-in-denial.

It’s almost like religions are based on more than a single interpretation of a single set of texts and evolve numerous shades of meaning and diverse practices across time and space and that a “pure” form of any religion does not in fact exist.