How do I tell when the Lower Dantian is full, and what to do?

[Klinsly]

Hi, first off I'm pretty new to practicing 7 months or so. My question is about how do you tell when the Lower Dantian is full and then what to do about it? I'm also going to include the sensation I had, as well as part of a extremely vivid dream where I also had the same sensation. Sadly this was months ago so perhaps my progress has gone backwards since then.  I don't know why I didn't just come straight here..

 

So the feeling was of a pulsing/shaking sensation in my lower dantian area, kinda like a muscle spasm feeling.  The dream I had was really cool and memorable. I had also read the Magus of Java twice so there was a John Chang like figure. Basically I was at some temple on a  very small island surrounded by water somewhere in South East Asia and was sitting  in a circle with several other students and they were doing a test to see if we were ready to advance. After awhile the master  looked directly at me and put his palm up to his mouth and blew in my direction and all of a sudden that intense pulsing feeling happened in my Lower Dantian region. Afterward he walked over to me and said some joke to the rest of the guys about surfer's bodies and patted me in the stomach . Then I woke up.

 

The guy who I had learned my basic movements from told me he wasn''t sure and that it probably just meant i actually had a LDT. Recently I opened up this thing from Dr. Yang and it described the exact feeling I had in regards to it being full but this was months after the feelings happened. And i haven't felt it since. https://ymaa.com/articles/2014/1/nei-dan-sitting-meditation  Here's the quote from the end of the arcticle, "After you have practiced the abdominal exercises for about three to five weeks, you may feel your abdomen get warmer every time you practice. After continued practice, the abdomen will start to tremble and shake each time you start the fire. This means qi has accumulated at the lower dan tian and is about to overflow. At this time you should start to coordinate your breathing and abdominal movement with the movement of your huiyin (Co-1) (literally "meet the yin") cavity and perineum to lead the qi to the tailbone (weilu cavity)."

 

Thanks so much for any advice!

 

[Phoenix3]

I thought you first had to fix your Spirit in your niwan (upper dantian) before your lower dantian can be filled. Have you done that first?

Maybe i’m wrong though.

Maybe you should try to fix the Spirit (the Shen?) in the upper dantian first, and this will help your dreams, because I think you shouldn’t be having vivid dreams while you practice.

 

[Klinsly]

I'm really not sure, but phase 1 I got the impression was filling the ldt. I also practice ritual magic so I've been doing a lot of middle pillar rituals which is another way of charging the energy centers. I'll look into it though!

[Phoenix3]

Please post on this topic again if you find something interesting regarding filling the upper or lower dantian, because I’m not really sure of the process either. Hopefully someone else can share some advice too.

[JohnC]

I would really recommend you find a master, and don't mix and match practices.

 

Depending on what lineage you are in, there are different recommendations for every component of this.

 

To guess, Lotus Nei gong may be in line with what you are looking for.

[MegaMind]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I would really recommend you find a master, and don't mix and match practices.

 

Depending on what lineage you are in, there are different recommendations for every component of this.

 

To guess, Lotus Nei gong may be in line with what you are looking for.

 

 

People mix and match practices, then blame mo pai when they get injured and sick.

[Klinsly]

Sorry I can't figure out how to reply specifically without quoting, but they seem very complimentary as I'm still doing basic stuff to just clean and charge your aura, while qigong gives more chi and opens channels, and that is very off topic I dont want to derail this into fear of mixing different alchemical systems. I wouldn't have even brought it up normally.  And yes I should find an actual teacher locally, but that seemed like some version of an astral teacher. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Klinsly

[dawei]

10 hours ago, Klinsly said:

Recently I opened up this thing from Dr. Yang and it described the exact feeling I had in regards to it being full but this was months after the feelings happened. And i haven't felt it since. https://ymaa.com/articles/2014/1/nei-dan-sitting-meditation  Here's the quote from the end of the arcticle, "After you have practiced the abdominal exercises for about three to five weeks, you may feel your abdomen get warmer every time you practice. After continued practice, the abdomen will start to tremble and shake each time you start the fire. This means qi has accumulated at the lower dan tian and is about to overflow. At this time you should start to coordinate your breathing and abdominal movement with the movement of your huiyin (Co-1) (literally "meet the yin") cavity and perineum to lead the qi to the tailbone (weilu cavity)."

 

Thanks so much for any advice!

 

 

Just to clarify... "to lead the qi to the tailbone" is to suggest the MCO practice... that the Qi will then flow up the spine, over the head and down the front of the body back to the LDT.   This is described in more detail in many of his books.  If you follow his instructions on coordinating the movement of the huiyin/perineum, it will happen.   But what is not explained so much is how does one even know there is movement or not?   This takes reading his other books but in a nutshell, you can touch your perineum to see if it is moving or not.  

 

Filling the LDT can be followed with some active Qigong so the Qi circulates through the body.   There are several gates and openings and methods of movement that could be discussed... to speak nothing of the dan tians and chakras that one can play with.    

 

Further reading here on TDB about Yang:  https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40914-dr-yang-jwing-mings-best-book-to-start/

 

 

It cannot be stressed enough that one should be in a group led practice with a teacher/leader/master who can resolve Qi issues that could arise.   

 

 

 

[moment]

@Klinsly,

 

That last sentence by dawei (directly above): Read it another two or three times, so it sinks in.

[deathclutchone]

If you have a legit practice and teacher they always say never force anything let it happen. I have been lurking on this forum for a while and everyone is in such a rush. Let the fruits of the practice unfold naturally on your path and great things will come.

[Zork]

10 hours ago, MegaMind said:

 

 

People mix and match practices, then blame mo pai when they get injured and sick.

So instead of giving the guy some advice on how the LDT fills up, which is part of your practice and you have actual experience with it, you are content to tell him that mopai doesn't mix with other systems.

Is your system the only one that starts with filling the dantien?

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, Klinsly said:

Sorry I can't figure out how to reply specifically without quoting, but they seem very complimentary as I'm still doing basic stuff to just clean and charge your aura, while qigong gives more chi and opens channels, and that is very off topic I dont want to derail this into fear of mixing different alchemical systems. I wouldn't have even brought it up normally.  And yes I should find an actual teacher locally, but that seemed like some version of an astral teacher. 

To answer your question about how to tell if the LDT is full, and what to do, depends on the lineage.

 

Most lineages I've worked with don't concern themselves with such questions as the practice takes care of moving things from one stage to the next. Ie, there is wisdom in the practice that guides my development.

 

If you are attempting to practice Mo Pai, I would strongly urge caution, as there are no western teaching teachers. And I've heard of people practicing that getting more injuries, over all other systems I've heard about combined.

 

It is important to be clear on the intent of why you are practicing and of the practices, because mixing and matching can cause conflicting information in your body.

 

Ideally a local teacher, and if not a non-local teacher. I've traveled to meet all my teachers, and I practice in between.

Once your initiated into a quality lineage you will have a connection to your teacher, and can receive training in dream, meditation, etc. Getting initiated can be as simple as being a very diligent student.

Good luck.

John

Edited December 7, 2019 by JohnC

[MegaMind]

7 hours ago, Zork said:

So instead of giving the guy some advice on how the LDT fills up, which is part of your practice and you have actual experience with it, you are content to tell him that mopai doesn't mix with other systems.

Is your system the only one that starts with filling the dantien?

 

I would love to help, but not in public as such a discussion cannot be had openly.

[Starjumper]

20 hours ago, MegaMind said:

People mix and match practices, then blame mo pai when they get injured and sick.

 

You don't need to mix anything, Mo Pai will screw you up big time all by itself:

 

Same thing with the MCO if you learn it from words.

 

Most Grunters die young.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Starjumper

[MegaMind]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

You don't need to mix anything, Mo Pai will screw you up big time all by itself:

 

Same thing with the MCO if you learned it from words.

 

Most Grunters die young

 

I would not recommend anyone practice the altered instructions you posted. 

 

All the most important aspects have been removed.

[Starjumper]

3 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

All the most important aspects have been removed.

 

They also lie a lot:

 

 

[MegaMind]

6 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

They also lie a lot:

 

 

 

First you link to a post by a d4rr3n, not a member of our group.

 

Next as just one example of how your instructions are edited, among many many many others, grounding was one thing Jim stressed was absolutely critical.  The documents and videos Jim left to us are radically different from what you posted.  Your instructions omitting the requirement to be grounded is just one example. If you think we are making this up, please see Jim's book as a reference:

 

He told me I needed to be sitting on the ground; he could tell because I didn't have enough “yin” in me when he checked me out. I had been practicing inside a mobile home I was living in temporarily next to the house I was building. It was about three feet above the ground. He explained to me, “Your yin comes from the earth and you need to be connected to it.” He said I have to sit outside on the ground. This was somewhat troubling because where I live it snows about twice a year and rains a lot, so while he was telling me this I was trying to figure how I was going to be able to do it. He also told me yang comes from the air and enters the energy point on the top of your head. And it needs to be equally balanced with my yin which enters another energy point at the area of your perineum.

 

-Seeking The Master Of Mo Pai Jim McMillan

Edited December 8, 2019 by MegaMind

[Starjumper]

2 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

Next as just one example of how your instructions are edited, among many many many others, grounding was one thing Jim stressed was absolutely critical.  Your instructions omitting the requirement to be grounded is just one example. If you think we are making this up, please see Jim's book as a reference:

 

 

[MegaMind]

11 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

 

 

"Mo Pai is such a defective, deficient system."

 

Show us something like this, if you know of better alternatives that are not defective and deficient.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by MegaMind

[Zork]

15 hours ago, MegaMind said:

 

I would love to help, but not in public as such a discussion cannot be had openly.

This is quentessential corrupt elitism!

You haven't contributed in any way so far in the forum and the first time you have the chance to actually help someone, you deny him help.

[Zork]

12 hours ago, MegaMind said:

 

"Mo Pai is such a defective, deficient system."

 

Show us something like this, if you know of better alternatives that are not defective and deficient.

 

 

 

You should ask the man who made the "ring of fire "documentary. He claims that he found more people like Chang but he was the only one willing to be filmed.

 

What Starjumper said and Darren should worry you. If both Kostas and Chang have prostate cancer that's 3 in 3 on people who have completed the ldt awakening. This is a serious alarm bell!

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Isn’t the LDT and it’s own fullness one of those ”if you have to ask it aint happened yet” things?

 

To me it seems like filling up dan tians and circulating qi isn’t knowable as such, but you’ll notice stuff happens when something has reached a point where it has to change.

 

If you’ve evered dabbled in lockpicking OP i think half the challenge of lockpicking is to do the ”picking zen” state a lot: its when you just let your fingers listen and respond without even paying attention, it just gets done and you only notice it when the lock suddenly pops.

You did it, you just let it happen and within seconds of your mind just letting it go its done. How? By letting go? Yes but how?! You got out the way and just did it.

 

If this reference is totally obscure i will offer two things:

 

1)  to try picking some cheap padlocks, it’s fun!

2) i’ve been drinking, whereupon i find myself to make a lot of sense internally but not always being able to do it externally, pardon a wanderers ramblings.

[Zork]

1 hour ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

Isn’t the LDT and it’s own fullness one of those ”if you have to ask it aint happened yet” things?

IIRC from the magus of java, Kostas was told when he was ready to progress past that point.

I have no idea! It is one of the cases that the WMP crowd could really help us understand but refuse to do so.

I don't really get what the problem is besides elitism since MoPai can't be practiced in combination with other cultivation practices.

[MegaMind]

13 hours ago, Zork said:

This is quentessential corrupt elitism!

You haven't contributed in any way so far in the forum and the first time you have the chance to actually help someone, you deny him help.

 

This is another darned if you do, darned if you don't situation.

 

We had one particular individual who insisted he knew better and didn't need to follow safety precautions, and thought mixing MCO with Mo Pai was perfectly fine.

 

Well he wound up with psychosis and screwed his life up pretty badly.

 

When he got out he threatened with legal action.

 

If people refuse to listen and follow instruction exactly, they can and they do hurt themselves, and that comes back on us.

 

Not only is it bad Karma, it's bad PR to get involved with people who want dabble and mix and match practices.

[MegaMind]

13 hours ago, Zork said:

You should ask the man who made the "ring of fire "documentary. He claims that he found more people like Chang but he was the only one willing to be filmed.

 

What Starjumper said and Darren should worry you. If both Kostas and Chang have prostate cancer that's 3 in 3 on people who have completed the ldt awakening. This is a serious alarm bell!

 

I know a person who served in Vietnam, and was exposed to agent orange. 

 

He had to have his prostate surgically removed, and a kidney due to aggressive prostate cancer.

 

He never practised Mo Pai a day in his life.

 

All men will develop prostate cancer if they live long enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While Jim was serving in Vietnam he was doused in agent orange.

Jim developed a specific form of very aggressive cancer, it was linked to that exposure.

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/conditions/prostate_cancer.asp

"A 2013 study conducted at the Portland VA Medical Center and Oregon Health and Science University found that Veterans exposed to Agent Orange are not only at higher risk for prostate cancer, but they are more likely to have aggressive forms of the disease. Read the abstract for the publication, Agent Orange as a risk factor for high-grade prostate cancer."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/agent-orange-exposure-linked-to-deadliest-form-of-prostate-cancer-in-vietnam-war-vets/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080805092016.htm

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-04/mcog-aoe042009.php

A study of 1,495 veterans who underwent radical prostatectomy to remove their cancerous prostates showed that the 206 exposed to Agent Orange had nearly a 50 percent increased risk of their cancer recurring despite the fact that their cancer seemed relatively nonaggressive at the time of surgery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23670242

Agent Orange as a risk factor for high-grade prostate cancer.

52% increase in overall risk of developing aggressive prostate cancer.

https://www.pcf.org/news/agent-orange-prostate-cancer/

Prostate Cancer Foundation

Worse, “the men who were exposed to Agent Orange and other battlefield chemicals often present with more aggressive prostate cancer,” says Jeffrey Jones, M.D., Chief of Urology at the Michael E. DeBakey Veteran Affairs Medical Center (MEDVAMC).

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-agent-orange-cancer-idUSBRE94C03U20130513

Agent Orange tied to aggressive prostate cancer risk

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-04/mcog-aoe042009.php

Agent Orange exposure increases veterans' risk of aggressive recurrence of prostate cancer








Also according to Dr. Lawrence Blair as of September 12, 2019 John in his 80s and close to level 20 in Mo Pai has cancer himself.

https://youtu.be/xVU3WIco0eY?t=143

It is also important to note that most men will develop prostate cancer if they live long enough, it is a natural part of aging.

At best it can be argued that lower levels of Mo Pai do not provide the ability needed to heal cancer.

John stated that his teacher however could heal cancer, so at higher levels this would be possible.

Edited December 8, 2019 by MegaMind