The Dao speaks

[Mig]

Hello peeps,
Wonder what do you think about Brian Bruya translation of the DDJ from the comics author Cai zhizhong?

[SirPalomides]

I don’t know that one but I grew up with Cai’s comics retelling Chinese folklore and I love his work.

[silent thunder]

Haven't heard of that one.  I'll check it out.

Thanks for sharing and nice to see your name and words my friend!

[dawei]

Yes, I have the two small books that don't follow the order we are used to now.

 

Brilliant 

 

Some credit needs to go to the comic author who is the inspiration.

 

(I've shared this somewhere in the past but no clue where)

[SirPalomides]

A lovely scene from Cai’s “Fantasies of the Six Dynasties.”

[Mig]

The Wisdom of the Classics in Comics, Cai Zhizhong/ Tsai Chih Chung Comics Collection (28 Volumes), Chinese and English (Chinese)

[dawei]

Just to clarify... if one looks at Amazon.com...   there is a Single book vs a Two book set.   I have the latter and cannot say what the former contains.  

 

Whatever your inclination, I do recommend them.  Very cheap used books. 

[Mig]

16 hours ago, dawei said:

 

 

Whatever your inclination, I do recommend them.  Very cheap used books. 

Could you tell more what do you like about those translations or the work done by the author? I am curious to see your interpretation about his interpretations on all those books. Thanks.

[dawei]

1 hour ago, Mig said:

Could you tell more what do you like about those translations or the work done by the author? I am curious to see your interpretation about his interpretations on all those books. Thanks.

 

The introduction says, "Tsai Chih Chung (C. C. Tsai) is the most accomplished and popular cartoonist in all of East Asia, with parts of this series of his books having even been incorporated into the public school curriculum in Japan." 

 

I don't know his other works but appear to include: Confucius, Zhuangzi, Sunzi, and Zen masters.   It definitely makes me think about getting the others at some time.   I opened my books just now and saw my receipt from a Beijing book store in 2008 for essentially $2 US dollars...  What's to not like so far 

 

I'm not an avid cartoon type, particularly not like my son who can wax and wane on the Marvel Universe for hours and how the movies are or are not faithful to the graphic novels and story.   

 

That being said, the cartoon work is brilliant, whimsical, circumspect and yet direct at times; I can't help to smile and even laugh at just the cartoon part... then you get the text (translated by Brian Bruya).    It is not a translation, thank god.  It is written in very simple language that anyone could read but a matter of factness comes across.   The cartoon supplements the text with illustrative teaching points too.  Taken as a whole, it is a unique way to share the DJJ.

 

As to its interpretation.  There are not a lot of chapters that have a sharp difference of interpretative opinion.  That the book is not really trying to translate, it omits some points one will constantly see in translation.   

 

Ch. 6: First line about the Spirit of the Valley never dies... while the chinese is in the margin to see the original, the book just says, The Dao exists eternally.  

Ch. 25:  It reads, "The Dao is great, Heaven is great, Earth is great, and the people are also great."   If one knows this section, most say "the king is great" instead of man.  Some translators like Chan mention the two interpretations but notes that the king is the representative of man so chooses king for his translation.

Ch. 1:  This is the biggest tell and littlest known interpretive variations from the more common versions.  I'll just quote a few:

 

Feng and English: (rather standard translation)

 

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.
 

Chan: (his line 2 is standard but line three introduces non-being and being, as not so standard)

 

The Tao that can be told of is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The Nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth; The Named is the mother of all things.
Therefore let there always be non-being, so we may see their subtlety, And let there always be being, so we may see their outcome.
The two are the same, But after they are produced, they have different names.
They both may be called deep and profound. Deeper and more profound, The door to all subtleties!

 

Legge:  (Older translation to pre-date modern discussion, but is rather standard)

 

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Tao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and
unchanging name.

(Conceived of as) having no name, it is the Originator of heaven and earth; (conceived of as) having a name, it is the Mother of all things.

Always without desire we must be found,
If its deep mystery we would sound;
But if desire always within us be,
Its outer fringe is all that we shall see.

Under these two aspects, it is really the same; but as development
takes place, it receives the different names. Together we call them
the Mystery. Where the Mystery is the deepest is the gate of all that is subtle and wonderful.
 

Ta-Kao:  (Older translation to pre-date modern discussion, but is rather non-standard)

 

The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be defined is not the unchanging name.
Non-existence is called the antecedent of heaven and earth; Existence is the mother of all things.
From eternal Non-existence, therefore, we serenely observe the mysterious beginning of the Universe; From eternal existence we clearly see the apparent distinctions.
These two are the same in source and become different when manifested.
This sameness is called profundity. Infinite profundity is the gate whence comes the beginning of all parts of the Universe.

 

The Dao Speaks follows this last approach like Tao-Kao, but calls it Nothing and Being. 

 

 

I personally favor that rendering anyways so why I know the interpretative differences on the lines. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by dawei

[Mig]

Dawei, thanks so much for the explanation. It does make sense and very helpful. I am reading the DDJ from his comic book and I find it interesting. Not sure if the videos on Youtube are the same or different??

[SirPalomides]

I think the best way to read the book is not just have a good translation but good commentary to see how the book has been read through the ages. Without that context it's easy to miss things that were obvious to ancient readers, and likewise misread things based on faulty assumptions. And of course it's interesting to see when the commentators have very divergent readings. That's why I love the Red Pine version. Like I said before, I haven't seen the Cai DDJ but I imagine a cartoonist could also be a perceptive commentator. And I love Cai's art style.

[dawei]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:15 PM, Mig said:

Dawei, thanks so much for the explanation. It does make sense and very helpful. I am reading the DDJ from his comic book and I find it interesting. Not sure if the videos on Youtube are the same or different??

 

I couldn't say without link examples. 

[Mig]

Just found this, it may interest you:

 

[SirPalomides]

I grew up reading Cai Zhizhong’s illustrations of Chinese classics. He rocks.