Some more advice needed on practice

[Pero]

20 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Spot on.

 

The body is like a complex mass of interconnected water-filled balloons... a pull here, some tension there and the centre of gravity can be all over the place.

 

20 hours ago, Miffymog said:

 

AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thank god this is a Daoism forum and not a Physics forum.

 

I'm trying to find some co-relation between my lack of understanding of the spiritual path followed by the likes of yourself and Damo, and the 'fast-and-lose' interpretation you take to where the center of gravity might be what might affect it!

 

edit-not in the chest

Haha... After now having trained in his neigong a little bit I haven't changed my opinion which was/is the same as yours, that this is not the center of gravity. But at the same time I can tell you that I do kind of feel something moving up and down as displayed in the pic. Don't know what to call it, calling it COG is just as well I guess. It's just that IMO more than "COG" it's the way you hold yourself, perhaps the directionality of the tissues in the body but maybe not that alone. Disagree with @freeform that pulls change the COG, or at least COG as normally understood. Sometimes (if I'm having a good day, which is not very often lol) I can pull on my palm or elsewhere and feel the pull across the body and also increase it. But this does not in any way change my COG if I'm standing still. IMO there is nothing actually moving the way we normally think of it (though it may feel like that sometimes) - something going from one place to another (which would change the COG). But in any case I think this is an issue of terminology, a problem of the way we describe things that are happening instead of a problem of whether there are things happening if that makes sense. I mean, if you follow his instructions, even if the terminology he uses is wrong from a physics perspective, you will get the results he describes. So to me it's not such a big deal.

 

As for Damo, other than reading his books and watching videos I only had some brief interactions with him online. Personally I quite like him, he seems nice enough, nicer than many here (me included lol). Certainly would be happy to meet him in person if the opportunity ever arises.

[Miffymog]

1 hour ago, Pero said:

 

Haha... After now having trained in his neigong a little bit I haven't changed my opinion which was/is the same as yours, that this is not the center of gravity. But at the same time I can tell you that I do kind of feel something moving up and down as displayed in the pic. Don't know what to call it, calling it COG is just as well I guess. It's just that IMO more than "COG" it's the way you hold yourself, perhaps the directionality of the tissues in the body but maybe not that alone. Disagree with @freeform that pulls change the COG, or at least COG as normally understood. Sometimes (if I'm having a good day, which is not very often lol) I can pull on my palm or elsewhere and feel the pull across the body and also increase it. But this does not in any way change my COG if I'm standing still. IMO there is nothing actually moving the way we normally think of it (though it may feel like that sometimes) - something going from one place to another (which would change the COG). But in any case I think this is an issue of terminology, a problem of the way we describe things that are happening instead of a problem of whether there are things happening if that makes sense. I mean, if you follow his instructions, even if the terminology he uses is wrong from a physics perspective, you will get the results he describes. So to me it's not such a big deal.

 

As for Damo, other than reading his books and watching videos I only had some brief interactions with him online. Personally I quite like him, he seems nice enough, nicer than many here (me included lol). Certainly would be happy to meet him in person if the opportunity ever arises.

 

Yes, yes, yes.

 

It's clearly an attempt to try to explain some concepts that just don't really convert directly into English that well (it might be that some of these terms have better correlations in Chinese for example), and the COG is simply the easiest concept that a student can relate to.

 

Once you've got the hang of the techniques and 'felt it', there's no detraction from the practice by the slight misnomer either.

 

There is actually a physical definition that might be closer to what he's looking for, which is the center of the moment of inertia of a rigid rotating body about one end. If you go to push someone over, you naturally push them at chest level, and this is because if you model the human body like a thick plank of wood rotating at it's base that you want to tip over, you push through this center.

 

If you want to walk forwards for example, the first thing you do is start falling forwards, the way you do this is create a line of force from the back of your heel up to and through this center in your chest (kind of).

 

And if you then lower your weight by bending your knees, this center is then lowered and makes it easier to move forwards.

 

Now this center of rotational inertia becomes so central to our movements, it can get easy to mistake it for our actual center of mass.

 

---

 

Disclaimer - I've just spent the last 20 minutes checking the validity of what I've just said and, sadly, I've been unable to confirm what I've just said with any calculations. Instead it's all been done from the memory of the Physics I did 25 years ago. I think its right, I don't know it

 

 

[Creation]

Hi all, thanks for the extraordinary conversation happening here. 

 

Just a small note that might be helpful to some:  Being trained in physics, I had the same adverse reaction to the idea that the center of gravity moves between the solar plexus and lower abdomen with slight movement of the kwa.  But at the same time I certainly didn't think that Damo was saying anything capriciously.  The only conclusion is that he is not talking about the center of gravity in the technical sense used in physics, but some other kind of center.  Consider that mass density, from which the center of gravity is calculated, is a scalar quantity, but what Damo is talking about is a kind of equilibrium or fulcrum of the elastic tissues of the body, and elasticity is actually a tensor quantity.  So they wouldn't be the same kind of center at all. 

[Taomeow]

8 minutes ago, Creation said:

Hi all, thanks for the extraordinary conversation happening here. 

 

Just a small note that might be helpful to some:  Being trained in physics, I had the same adverse reaction to the idea that the center of gravity moves between the solar plexus and lower abdomen with slight movement of the kwa.  But at the same time I certainly didn't think that Damo was saying anything capriciously.  The only conclusion is that he is not talking about the center of gravity in the technical sense used in physics, but some other kind of center.  Consider that mass density, from which the center of gravity is calculated, is a scalar quantity, but what Damo is talking about is a kind of equilibrium or fulcrum of the elastic tissues of the body, and elasticity is actually a tensor quantity.  So they wouldn't be the same kind of center at all. 

 

In my practice the term "center" figures prominently but never with the modifier "of gravity," perhaps because it has nothing whatsoever to do with gravity.  The Chinese term is zhong ding -- central equilibrium.  It is both a place and a concept, the center point of alignment and intent (yi).  It is 3D, it has volume and six directions -- up/down, front/back, left/right -- simultaneously.  It can be located anywhere and it can move with lightning speed.  It can be hidden and even faked toward misdirecting the attack in push-hands.  It can be discovered and attacked in the opponent.  Maybe it's better understood via art than physics -- all great works of art have that.   

 

 Transfering the concept to the kind of training that can't train it (to wit, a stationary position, whatever one may call it -- wuji stance or what not) is one of the things that baffled me.   A great painting is, well, painted, even though it appears to be stationary.  There's motion within that stillness.  To establish a glued on "center of gravity" in a stationary position is impossible without compromising the alignment.  Maybe not in a gross way -- but microadjustments are to be happening continuously, and if they're not happening, something is tensing up.    

[freeform]

6 hours ago, Creation said:

not talking about the center of gravity in the technical sense used in physics, but some other kind of center.

Yes exactly. I’ve had several teachers call this gravity... It’s more of an ‘experiential’ rather than technical description. Later down the line in Neigong development it starts to make more sense why it’s termed gravity.

 

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

In my practice 

It’s important to differentiate between the internal arts - although there is some cross-over between taiji and Neigong, there are a lot of fundamental differences. The Qi of taiji and the Qi of Neigong are very different for a start...

 

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

the kind of training that can't train it (to wit, a stationary position

 

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

To establish a glued on "center of gravity" in a stationary position is impossible without compromising the alignment.

This conundrum you answer very well yourself - with:

 

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

There's motion within that stillness.

 

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Maybe not in a gross way -- but microadjustments are to be happening continuously

Standing practices in Neigong are not still... the lines of Jing Jin are constantly in motion as Qi moves, pressurises, expands and contracts through the channels.

[rideforever]

He is indicating what he is doing.  Probably merging the heart-solarplexus-ldt together in the central channel.  And then he uses that as his centre of gravity ... that is the kind of path that he likes.  If you ask me his "wuji" looks like somebody "clinging on" rather than letting go.

 

The real wuji is through letting go, unwinding unknotting, as you dissolve something is revealed, as you disintegrate you are "nourishing life" what remains is eternal.

In another approach : people are carefully building up layers of energy, focussing on the minutiae of alignment and clever energetic work.  This is not letting go.

 

I think he is right that many people engaged in all sorts of exotic practices, if they reach awakening just reach "awareness" which is not got much to do with their other practices.  And imo the exotic alchemy also has little to do with awakening; because the human structure is full of many forms of energy there are countless things you can do with that energy.  But energy is not awakening and it's uncertain if any of this exotic energy survives death.
Awakening is about identity, not energy.  Pure Taoist practice leads to awakening through becoming the identity of the ldt, then of the central channel, and surrendering down into the void, that's my understanding ... and you don't need a lot of energy work for that.  In fact if you have massive amounts of energy wrapped around you it can be a barrier to letting go.
But on the other hand you have to do something to learn and grow, so energy work can take you "inside" quickly, so it can be useful as a learning tool and also improves your health.

Edited December 20, 2019 by rideforever

[Chainer]

Interesting thread.

 

Big fan of Damo's work, he has truly opened up actual practise for many, many people without teachers and given them excellent advice on the systems he uses, as far as can be done in a book.

 

The CoG advice he gives in terms of how to feel and use it is an excellent starting point, generates real results and if nothing else will help people become more conscious of their energy body. 

 

Guess it's important to remember he is a martial artist first and foremost, not a Zen Master and therefore is very practical in his advice. A detailed study of 'letting go', of removing all your mental tension, killing your ego and dropping off body and mind is beyond the scope of what he teaches.      

 

Lastly and just for the craic, as they say where I live.. good to remember that no one has the smallest clue what gravity actually is to this day - No One, we just have a collection of ever more useful mathematical models. Read recently that even Einstein's equations have now been shown to be not perfect, so I'm not sure there is any mileage in trying to judge it one way or the other. 

[freeform]

Ride - you’re definitely on the right track - especially with letting go...

 

But here’s the issue in Neigong terms - if you simply let go of all tensions - what you end up letting go into is your habitual body-mind. No change. No transformation. Just some relaxation.

The reason there’s this initial period of getting the body into the correct shape is so that you can let go into a shape that allows your channels to open and your Qi to sink.

The meticulous setting up of your body is only the very early stage. These arts are a lifetime practice - so the couple of years it takes to get your body reshaped is just a very short part of the journey. And the period of setting up the shape is just a few weeks... once you’ve set it up, you just song into it - this creates an internal pressure and elastic tension in your tissues - which is what ‘builds’ the qigong body over time.

 

To let go on ever deeper levels actually requires strength, power, ‘space’ and Qi... your awareness needs to be able to penetrate deeper into your body (which is also your mind) - to constantly let go at ever deeper levels. This is not possible to for most ‘normal’ people - they need to cultivate the capacity.

 

You might be very gifted and be able to easily drop into deep jhannic states by just letting go - and not require building the capacity to let go... but this is very very rare - and you’d know by now if you were one of these individuals.

 

Remember that your body and your mind are part of the same continuum

[rideforever]

Personally meditation practice and the spiritual path comes first, and came first.  And my progression into the way came from there.  The methods of the Chinese arts have joined that path.

I don't like the alignment business much.  I prefer being with a teacher and just copying him, copying body to body, feeling to feeling, consciousness to consciousness.  This is a transmission of "how to do it" as he does it.

There are several types of "consciousness" from which you can practice.

- Conceptual consciousness, which is the virtualising mind, makes pictures of anatomy

- Awareness, which is arises from the mind to inspect things in the world, awareness of the joints

- Energy embodiment, this arises from the ldt, it is you embodying that brain down there that feels the energy and being inside the qi.

Different people practice from any one of these.   If you just want energy power you can stay in #1 or #2.  If you want to evolve you need to be #3.  So that you only work from #3, in other words being inside the ldt and qi, (without using any awareness from the head) you can decide what needs to happen in your practice..

imo many people are still working from #1 or #2 even after decades. 
That switch from #1#2 to  spiritual awakening and embodiment makes the practice spirituali.

Similarly working with love and compassion is also #1#2 ... but when you are "inside" the heart chakra then you are spiritualized.

That is the thing.

When you are still outside the ldt you work with energy like an object, like a tool.

When you are inside the ldt you are the subject, you are the energy itself.

Edited December 20, 2019 by rideforever

[Taomeow]

7 hours ago, freeform said:

It’s important to differentiate between the internal arts - although there is some cross-over between taiji and Neigong, there are a lot of fundamental differences. The Qi of taiji and the Qi of Neigong are very different for a start...

 

 

Two things worth mentioning.  By "my practice" in this context I meant taiji neigong, my main practice of the past five years, preceded by ten years of "just taiji" and "just neigong."  And "it's important to differentiate" indeed between the internal arts you practice and the internal art you don't practice.  "The qi of taiji" is not one kind but thirteen, whereas the qi of taiji neigong is exponentially more -- none of it being "different" from "just neigong" by default -- it is what you choose to cultivate, "just neigong" if you like, more if you are ready.  Way more down the road if you don't want to stop.  Enough to last anyone a lifetime of internal cultivation and beyond -- immortals are known to practice it too, and differentiate between levels of mastery, not "different kinds of qi" involved.  E.g. Quanzhen taoism was based on the teachings Wang Chongyang received from the immortal Lu Dongbin who practices his taiji sword daily, and his disciple Qiu Chuji, the founder of Longmen Pai, which is my taoist school, has many stories associated with his martial prowess and expert fighting skill based on internal cultivation.  On taiji neigong, that is.  

[Miffymog]

6 hours ago, Chainer said:

Interesting thread.

 

Big fan of Damo's work, he has truly opened up actual practise for many, many people without teachers and given them excellent advice on the systems he uses, as far as can be done in a book.

 

The CoG advice he gives in terms of how to feel and use it is an excellent starting point, generates real results and if nothing else will help people become more conscious of their energy body. 

 

Guess it's important to remember he is a martial artist first and foremost, not a Zen Master and therefore is very practical in his advice. A detailed study of 'letting go', of removing all your mental tension, killing your ego and dropping off body and mind is beyond the scope of what he teaches.      

 

Lastly and just for the craic, as they say where I live.. good to remember that no one has the smallest clue what gravity actually is to this day - No One, we just have a collection of ever more useful mathematical models. Read recently that even Einstein's equations have now been shown to be not perfect, so I'm not sure there is any mileage in trying to judge it one way or the other. 

 

20 years ago I had a choice between Lam Kam and Mantak Chai. I went with Lam Kam and still follow his teachings to this day.

 

When I read some of Damo’s books I felt a real pang of regret that this stuff wasn’t around when I started out.

 

There are bits I don’t completely like about his stuff, in that there’s a slight ‘carrot dangling’ nature to it, so much so I had to sell his books after I’d read them …

 

But he gives a good all round approach to nei gong and his explanation of the development of the qi gong body is beyond any other western texts I’ve come across.

[CloudHands]

My advice... don't end up like this.

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by CloudHands

[Chainer]

14 hours ago, Miffymog said:

When I read some of Damo’s books I felt a real pang of regret that this stuff wasn’t around when I started out.

 

There are bits I don’t completely like about his stuff, in that there’s a slight ‘carrot dangling’ nature to it, so much so I had to sell his books after I’d read them …

 

Interesting comment.

 

For me a major strength of Damo's work is that he was one of the first to make a good attempt at detailing the confirmatory signs, what you feel and see at early stages, with decent explanations, pictures even. This makes his books a lot more engaging and workable at the beginning. Was a brave move for anyone serious back then and coming from Zen was really useful, given I already had some skill with internal meditation it was possible to make a lot minor progress very quickly.  

 

Also think he was one of the first to drag sexual energy alchemy out of the shadows, much as he walked a very fine line in the early texts. Better in the later stuff on the Neijing Tu, much as I know his interpretation of that is not quite as good or precise as several others.        

 

Honestly think all teachers worth their salt do a bit of 'now you see it, now you don't', it goes with the territory and he does it less than most. Think early students expect it actually, they want their teachers to hint their is so much more, wear it like a badge of honor. Obviously makes them more credible in the age we live in today, where there is so (too) much choice.

 

I don't teach but I help people when they ask and they have some aptitude for it and therefore know how unbelievably difficult it is to get across these complex concepts to otherwise normal people. WMOTMP is the book of his I recommend to them, and it never fails, provides a great starting place and reference for their journey, should they choose to venture down the left hand path. Some months ago a very well read and naturally gifted french lady told me she did not need the 'training wheels' and asked to borrow what I read, so she took Tibetan Yoga by WY Evans-Wentz and Understanding Reality by Chang Po-tuan, only to politely hand them back a week later and take WMOTMP with a wry smile. 

 

Everyone needs training wheels at the beginning and his are some of the best.   

 

Lastly, does anyone here think a thread on confirmatory signs would be interesting to people here?

 

Just noticed that a couple of posters on this forum use profilers with a white dot on a black ground which made me smile, and thought it maybe interesting just to hear what people experience. My interest would be particularity visual, less interested in heat and movement. Just a thought anyway... attitudes to sharing 'secrets' used to be much harsher than they appear to be now.     

    

[Boerewors]

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

 

Spirits in cosmos dream about teaching you something. For free.

 

 

Exactly, the path will become unbearable to walk if you lack that humility quality, you will eventually realize that you are a nobody nowhere and extreme far away from your "objectives" of becoming an immortal, without humility and with selfinflated ego, that will turn into internal demon and Qi deviation that will devour the practitioner.

Yes, you know everything about becoming an immortal, and you also clearly know that there is only one path to that state of being, and that humility is a requirement. I am sure you have learned a lot from your masters who aren't immortals, and a bunch of books written by people who were most likely not immortals. Preaching about something like this makes you appear rather daft.

 

Since you believe so much in humility why not practice it? I mean, you speak for all the spirits in the Cosmos who will apparently only commune with those who are self-righteous assholes such as yourself right? I think I'll take my chances learning from spirits rather than some fools on an online forum that assume they know everything regarding the paths to immortality, why don't you and Earl Grey go polish your masters' knobs?

[Earl Grey]

10 minutes ago, Boerewors said:

Yes, you know everything about becoming an immortal, and you also clearly know that there is only one path to that state of being, and that humility is a requirement. I am sure you have learned a lot from your masters who aren't immortals, and a bunch of books written by people who were most likely not immortals. Preaching about something like this makes you appear rather daft.

 

Since you believe so much in humility why not practice it? I mean, you speak for all the spirits in the Cosmos who will apparently only commune with those who are self-righteous assholes such as yourself right? I think I'll take my chances learning from spirits rather than some fools on an online forum that assume they know everything regarding the paths to immortality, why don't you and Earl Grey go polish your masters' knobs?

Man, I leave you alone and you go right back to it. You want someone to pet you on the head rather than tell you the truth, and nobody here worth their salt will ever say that making up your own system will get you what you claim to be looking for.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Boerewors]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Man, I leave you alone and you go right back to it. You want someone to pet you on the head rather than tell you the truth, and nobody here with their salt will ever say that making up your own system will get you what you claim to be looking for.

And nobody worth their salt thinks you know what you're talking about, nor does anybody consider you some kind of authority, sorry, back to polishing knobs and sweeping the floors boy.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, Boerewors said:

And nobody worth their salt thinks you know what you're talking about, nor does anybody consider you some kind of authority, sorry, back to polishing knobs and sweeping the floors boy.

Given the skills i do have and the respect from multiple lineages (including outside mine), wishful thinking and a miserable attempt at an insult.

 

I remind you: YOU started this in the thread and now YOU are restarting it by your bizarre sexual fantasies about sucking my cock.

[Boerewors]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Given the skills i do have and the respect from multiple lineages (including outside mine), wishful thinking and a miserable attempt at an insult.

 

I remind you: YOU started this in the thread and now YOU are restarting it by your bizarre sexual fantasies about sucking my cock.

Multiple lineages consistent of mostly people who aren't and will never be immortals, I'm impressed. Not only that, you're also assuming you know the only way to immortality, as such you should prove it or continue appearing to be a daft peasant.

 

Yes, I did start it, and ask pretenders such as yourself not to derail it because you're irrelevant, as is anything you say. You're the one worshiping your master who is not an immortal, thus polishing his knob, not me. Also, when you grow up and need a job, you can come mow my lawn, and rake the yard, because that's what obedient little fools do where I'm from.

[Earl Grey]

45 minutes ago, Boerewors said:

Multiple lineages consistent of mostly people who aren't and will never be immortals, I'm impressed. Not only that, you're also assuming you know the only way to immortality, as such you should prove it or continue appearing to be a daft peasant.

 

Yes, I did start it, and ask pretenders such as yourself not to derail it because you're irrelevant, as is anything you say. You're the one worshiping your master who is not an immortal, thus polishing his knob, not me. Also, when you grow up and need a job, you can come mow my lawn, and rake the yard, because that's what obedient little fools do where I'm from.

Who said I’m out to be immortal? My goals and practices are already gearing me for what I need. You’re kinda fucked in the head and somewhere between classist and racist with that kinda pathetic insult, by the way.  

 

As for being a pretender--THIS from a guy who wants to make up his own system and rejects the knowledge of people who ACTUALLY have qualifications to discuss this, while YOU are just looking for affirmation of your own Dungeons and Dragons fantasy?! 

 

HA!!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 21, 2019 by Earl Grey

[senseless virtue]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:17 PM, Boerewors said:

that's what obedient little fools do where I'm from.

 

Does disobedience and growing up without any discipline mature anybody into non-foolish independent thinker?

Edited December 5, 2023 by senseless virtue
straight to the point

[Zork]

14 minutes ago, Boerewors said:

Multiple lineages consistent of mostly people who aren't and will never be immortals, I'm impressed. Not only that, you're also assuming you know the only way to immortality, as such you should prove it or continue appearing to be a daft peasant.

 

Yes, I did start it, and ask pretenders such as yourself not to derail it because you're irrelevant, as is anything you say. You're the one worshiping your master who is not an immortal, thus polishing his knob, not me. Also, when you grow up and need a job, you can come mow my lawn, and rake the yard, because that's what obedient little fools do where I'm from.

How many immortals do you know?

How many have you encountered?

Last question. Assuming that you found someone who succeeded, why the hell would he/she teach you?

[senseless virtue]

2 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Assuming you found a billionaire, how will you persuade them, to make you a billionaire.

I would buy that for a dollar!

[Earl Grey]

18 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Lets rephrase for their inflamed ego to understand better.

 

See, I still don't get why the Boor thinks that just because I refuse to feed his delusion, he concludes that I have no skill. 

 

I also don't get why he thinks I'm talking about immortality when I haven't said anything about being immortal, I only talk about qi deviation dangers and my own experiences, and I'm on topic too about the things my students have seen when practicing. 

 

And even more baffling is that I left him the hell alone for a few pages, and he goes right back to picking a fight. 

 

[Nintendao]

Wors I hope for your sake that you do not meet any actual immortals any time soon. You could be setting yourself up for an extremely harsh ride. I will not make assumptions about your practice, but your lack of humility is telling.

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

I have been noticing it here and in general, that people aim to find the best, the highest level possible teachers. 

What they dont realize however, is that higher level teacher is not something that is suitable for everyone and fitting for their lifestyle.

One thing is to study at school for idiots, where nobody is forced to do anything, other is to go to Oxford, where you will be forced to spend like 40+ hours a week on studies. I did not go to Oxford, as I wanted to spend more time cultivating rather than studying.

 

Its very easy to become reiki master by applying for some online webinar spiritual power initiation, wont cost much financially, will take from 5 mins to few hours of sitting on your armchair.

 

But if you come across any serious teacher, you will be forced to practice from 6 hours a day, you may be forced to leave your family, relatives, job, to move to some kind of a different place that you are accustomed to living in without much of civilization benefits. You may have to abstain from sex, from tasty food, from tv series and reading.

 

Ofc it could be a completely different experience with every teacher but main point is, high level teachers demand more from their students.

 

 

You said it, just as freeform did earlier: 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 9:11 PM, freeform said:

 

Earl Grey mentioned how authentic teachers work. The most highly achieved teachers I’ve come across are even harsher than that to be honest...
 

Before discussing anything, you’ll be tested. They might put you in a position and tell you to stand and relax... or they might tell you to sit and quieten your mind... then they’ll leave you there. Most people stop their practice after 30 minutes... some manage an hr or two...

 

I’ve been in this situation - and 5 hrs later, my body in unbelievable pain and a large puddle of my sweat on the ground - I was told to come back the next day for a chat. And this wasn’t passing the test - this was an opportunity to sit the real test

 

Self entitlement precludes you from any real training. Yes some teachers will train you - they’re either just interested in your money or they’re waiting to see if you drop the act before teaching you anything genuine...

 

Consider this as some more advice  

 

On 12/16/2019 at 6:45 PM, freeform said:

And I have plenty of criticism... mainly that his system is not for everybody. I don’t even practice his system directly... although the same line.
 

It’s for the dedicated few. It takes a lot of time, is very powerful and not at all relaxing - mostly very uncomfortable.

 

This is how most genuine spiritual cultivation systems are. There are many more health and well-being related qigong systems are much more suited to the majority of people.

 

Spiritual transformation is no joke. It will probably ruin your life the way you have it. It’s probably not how you think it should be. And it’s not a pleasant process. It won’t ‘heal’ you in the way you think it ought to...

 

For me it’s the biggest gift I could wish for. But for many others it’s a nightmare!

 

I could say that the testing scene in V for Vendetta in the prison? That was nothing compared to some of the serious tests I had to endure with some of my teachers. I literally wanted to kill everyone in frustration, until I found out one of those things I endured was a test and I not only passed it, but my teacher was glowing with pride. 

 

That feeling of elation and release was incomparable to anything else. And the good of it was that it does unlock more potential for higher skill and power because it's the deflation of the ego. 

 

Yet, when I run into egomaniacs without humility, telling them like it is makes them see those issues in anyone else but themselves. And I get it. It's really tough to undo conditioning, especially when people are focused on feeling okay or being affirmed rather than being told what's ahead of them. 

 

Again, Icarus flew too close to the sun, in spite of all the warnings.