Some more advice needed on practice

[freeform]

27 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

The point here is that some of the stuff he writes about is quite powerful and, without balance, can be potentially dangerous.

Anything effective is potentially dangerous

 

But in this case - looking forward to your training... personally I wouldn’t call that potentially dangerous.

 

From people I’ve talked to that started with wuji - they had the opposite reaction... it makes them hot, uncomfortable, their insides moving, trembling, wanting to stop etc... 

 

I suspect you probably have a few corrections that need to be made in your wuji practice - then you’d find it a lot less pleasant  
 

And it’s worth bearing in mind - wuji is one part of a pretty substantial system. If you only did wuji - and none of the other elements of the system, then you’re going off-course - which is certainly dangerous long term.

[Starjumper]

11 hours ago, Miffymog said:

Damo's wuji stance

 

Can you find a picture of this posture?  I know the standard wuji stance, and I do a variation.

[Miffymog]

6 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Can you find a picture of this posture?  I know the standard wuji stance, and I do a variation.

 

Here we go

[Starjumper]

14 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

 

Here we go

 

Thanks, whoever named that a wuji posture is an idiot, it is a variation of the 'Standing in the Stream' posture.  Completely different energy task from wuji.

[Miffymog]

16 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Thanks, whoever named that a wuji posture is an idiot, it is a variation of the 'Standing in the Stream' posture.  Completely different energy task from wuji.

This is what Lam Kam calls his first position  - I take it it's the equivalent to his system's wuji posture

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Miffymog

[Starjumper]

24 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

This is what Lam Kam calls his first position  - I take it it's the equivalent to his system's wuji posture

 

 

That IS the wuji posture, in any system.

[freeform]

10 hours ago, Starjumper said:

That IS the wuji posture, in any system.

Wuji isn’t the same in every system. The wuji posture is simply the primary posture of the system. Different systems have different primary postures.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

Wuji isn’t the same in every system. The wuji posture is simply the primary posture of the system. Different systems have different primary postures.

 

Yep, and that stance they call "wuji" is not what we use in Xin Yi--we go right into embracing, the mother posture, before we go into the others of the 9 main postures. None of the systems I have use this except in the opening and closing for a special Baguazhang eight directional Zhan Zhuang set. 

[freeform]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

the mother posture

yes exactly - great term, it explains the concept perfectly.

 

4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

None of the systems I have use this

Yup - it’s not a common one. Most systems use a variation of the above from Lam. I call it ‘the cowboy’

 

Wuji from Damo’s system is qigong / neigong specific - and specific to the purposes of his system. I wouldn’t take this posture out of the system and I wouldn’t take the system out of the posture!

 

When done in the way that he teaches it - with all the principles correctly applied - I think it is a little too powerful for some people. If they’re very sensitive, have mental disorders or even a tendency for heat or for Qi to rise strongly to the head, it’s too much. I can’t remember if he includes all the principles in his book, I imagine probably not all.

[freeform]

14 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

in Xin Yi--we go right into embracing

Interesting. I thought the primary posture for Xin Yin is San Ti?
 

This is coming from someone (me) who doesn’t train in Xin Yi though!

 

 

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, freeform said:

If they’re very sensitive, have mental disorders or even a tendency for heat or for Qi to rise strongly to the head, it’s too much.

 

And this is exactly why self-initiation and practice is dangerous for beginners...as I've written many times throughout the forum and in another thread that the old admin refused to remove as well. 

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, freeform said:

Interesting. I thought the primary posture for Xin Yin is San Ti?
 

This is coming from someone (me) who doesn’t train in Xin Yi though!

 

 

 

No, no, I do Xin Yi 心意 , not Xing Yi  形意! But I also know Xing Yi as well as Bagua, as our grandmaster studied them both along with Taijiquan, Liuhebafa, and Yi Quan before incorporating what was necessary into our syllabus!

Edited December 16, 2019 by Earl Grey

[freeform]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

No, no, I do Xin Yi, not Xing Yi（心意 , not  形意)!

 Oops!

 

Makes much more sense now

Edited December 16, 2019 by freeform

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

self-initiation and practice is dangerous for beginners...

I have to add that although Damo teaches the posture in books and a video - he does not show how to activate the Dantien - which is where things can get a lot more dangerous. I believe this is reserved for in person training with him

[Earl Grey]

19 minutes ago, freeform said:

 Oops!

 

Makes much more sense now

 

17 minutes ago, freeform said:

I have to add that although Damo teaches the posture in books and a video - he does not show how to activate the Dantien - which is where things can get a lot more dangerous. I believe this is reserved for in person training with him

 

I could trade stories all day about how Zhan Zhuang is dangerous for people with mental disorders if they do it in our system, but it also helps heal them as well--provided they have supervision by the teachers.

 

Here's one, for the purpose of this thread: when some people reach a certain level of practice, usually when standing for an hour is comfortable in several postures, hallucinations will come in, and this is before we even teach them the Hindrance part of our syllabus to develop power in Xin Yi. On the one hand, people see ghosts and floating faces, on the other hand--they are there. 

 

There was a time I was with several students at a very special hour for training that I won't mention here as it's a public secret, but still a secret as to what is a good training time for optimal practice. Walker and Zork know what time this is at least, and I'm sure you do too.  

 

We were standing in the mother posture for an hour, and my German student's hair stood up when my Australian student said she saw my face changing shapes and hair color turn blond, and the German lad said he would never had said anything if she didn't first because he thought he was hallucinating from the time and the effort of standing for an hour. It came to a point that they saw a wolf head replace mine, then the limbs became larger than a torso, then an outline of body was no longer the physical body they knew, but an Earl Grey-shaped space that looked like they could walk into and go through and into the ocean of stars in the cosmos. 

 

Campfire tales were fun that evening, so to speak...

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Miffymog]

13 minutes ago, freeform said:

I have to add that although Damo teaches the posture in books and a video - he does not show how to activate the Dantien - which is where things can get a lot more dangerous. I believe this is reserved for in person training with him

 

Does Damo include in his books putting your awareness in the LDT? check.

Does Damo include the hand moving practice of 'compressing the pear at the LDT'? check.

Does Damo include a description of a co-ordinated breathing practice involving the diaphragm, abdominal muscles and lower floor pelvic muscles in order to activate the LDT? check.

 

Is freeform going to find some way out of directly criticising Damo's teaching? check.

 

[freeform]

5 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

Is freeform going to find some way out of directly criticising Damo's teaching? check.

😄 - yes 

 

What you mentioned above won’t activate the Dantien in the way I’m talking about.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

😄 - yes 

 

What you mentioned above won’t activate the Dantien in the way I’m talking about.

 

Yep--"activation" of LDT varies across disciplines, with some being activation for healing, some for martial use, and then the rest I am not allowed to publicly discuss. 

[freeform]

13 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

Is freeform going to find some way out of directly criticising Damo's teaching? check.

And I have plenty of criticism... mainly that his system is not for everybody. I don’t even practice his system directly... although the same line.
 

It’s for the dedicated few. It takes a lot of time, is very powerful and not at all relaxing - mostly very uncomfortable.

 

This is how most genuine spiritual cultivation systems are. There are many more health and well-being related qigong systems are much more suited to the majority of people.

 

Spiritual transformation is no joke. It will probably ruin your life the way you have it. It’s probably not how you think it should be. And it’s not a pleasant process. It won’t ‘heal’ you in the way you think it ought to...

 

For me it’s the biggest gift I could wish for. But for many others it’s a nightmare!

[Earl Grey]

Just now, freeform said:

Spiritual transformation is no joke. It will probably ruin your life the way you have it. It’s probably not how you think it should be. And it’s not a pleasant process. It won’t ‘heal’ you in the way you think it ought to...

 

For me it’s the biggest gift I could wish for. But for many others it’s a nightmare!

Are you sure you’re not one of our sister lineages or one of our instructors?😂 this is exactly what we teach and warn too!

[freeform]

7 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

this is exactly what we teach and warn too!

Any genuine system knows this! 
 

Who you think you are - what you think you want - how you think reality works - completely unravels - and not in a pleasant ‘universal love and compassion’ sort of way either.

[Earl Grey]

6 minutes ago, freeform said:

Any genuine system knows this! 
 

Who you think you are - what you think you want - how you think reality works - completely unravels - and not in a pleasant ‘universal love and compassion’ sort of way either.

 

Yes, and this leads to complete indifference I've found personally and among some peers when dealing with know-nothing know-it-alls who have funny ideas about how we should be "spiritual" and think we don't get angry or that we're party-poopers for laying out the cold, hard facts! 

 

Years ago when I was still a whelp, I found some Taoists here off-putting, but now I find them to be completely justified and relate more to them and their bluntness and indifference, and yet when we chat with each other, we even joke that Pai Mei from Kill Bill was a softie! 

[Starjumper]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

Wuji isn’t the same in every system. The wuji posture is simply the primary posture of the system.

 

People can play games with names and fuck up definitions all they want, but wuji in effect means nothing, or doing nothing, which means NO energy work, which is the 'standard' way, the way demoed in Lam Kam Chuen's book.  The first picture presented does do some energy work, required by sickies and beginners.  End of story.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Starjumper

[freeform]

2 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

dealing with know-nothing know-it-alls who have funny ideas about how we should be "spiritual"

It’s not their fault... Our identities yearn to build and strengthen a sense of self - so we tend to latch on to things we read or conclusions we make from our experience and we dig our heels in as a way of creating a self.

 

Spiritual practice dismantles this sense of self... and as the self dismantles, different aspects of what makes up the self start to arise and these aspects are not the fluffy happy ‘spiritual’ stuff we’re told about in books...

 

But the dismantling process is continuous and even the bluntness gives way to something else eventually.
 

Although indifference seems to be a useful one that sticks around  

[Taomeow]

6 hours ago, Miffymog said:

 

Is freeform going to find some way out of directly criticising Damo's teaching? check.

 

 

I'm not freeform but I can find a way.

 

I watched a bit of Damo's videos here and there, read a bit of what he writes here and there, saw this or that diagram he presents, listened to a fragment of a lecture and a snippet of another, and had to stop every time, somewhat baffled.

 

Something is always off.  Not necessarily glaringly off.  But if he was a flight instructor, he would know that each 1° displacement over a distance of 60 nautical miles (NM) will result in 1 NM off course.  If you keep displacing and never correcting, you'll never get where you're headed -- and where you end up you might not even find a landing strip.

 

Why exactly is something always off, I don't know, but I can guess.  He wanted "his" system.   Without having been born into the tradition, one typically has two options.  Find an established tradition and join the lineage as the next-generation practitioner.  If you're talented, ambitious, hardworking and lucky, become a lineage holder, make it your own, no one will hold it against you that you weren't born into that tradition if you internalized it fully.  And the second option -- cherry-pick the lineage, better yet more than one, as many as you can lay your hands on, mix and match and "create your own system."  The second generation might find it doesn't really work, the third may find it doesn't exist anymore, things that aren't viable are born every day.  Remember X-ray Shoe Fitter, Pedoscope and Foot-o-scope -- machines installed in shoe stores to determine your shoe size in a new and improved way by giving you a hefty doze of radiation every time you wanted to buy shoes?  No?  Neither do I.  But they were all the rage once.  

 

I'd wait a couple generations before committing to Damo's system.