Breathing into LDT properly using reverse breathing

[Goku76]

Hello, when doing lower Dantien breathing using abdominal breathing or reverse, do I have to imagine the breath or feel it go inside of the Dantien and become energy or just focus on my Dantien and breath slowly, and quietly. And wait for results.

[Power Of Will13]

On 02.01.2020 at 12:00 AM, Goku76 said:

Hello, when doing lower Dantien breathing using abdominal breathing or reverse, do I have to imagine the breath or feel it go inside of the Dantien and become energy or just focus on my Dantien and breath slowly, and quietly. And wait for results.

 

This is my personal opinion based on my understanding: It does not matter what you imagine. but you must understand what you are doing, because if you do it right it can be dangerous at the same time. For example, if you go out naked in the cold you may die, but this does not happen if you go out for only 10 minutes. Do you understand?

[Earl Grey]

On 1/2/2020 at 5:00 AM, Goku76 said:

Hello, when doing lower Dantien breathing using abdominal breathing or reverse, do I have to imagine the breath or feel it go inside of the Dantien and become energy or just focus on my Dantien and breath slowly, and quietly. And wait for results.

As you’re only discussing a technique, you don’t give any information on system and practices. 
 

LDT breathing alone without any basic information about what you do and what you have is guaranteed to either do nothing at best or burn it at worst.

[SirPalomides]

A lot of Daoist teachers routinely recommend- to everyone, strangers included- meditating with deep breaths and attention on the LDT. Do you mean something more specific by LDT breathing? 

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

A lot of Daoist teachers routinely recommend- to everyone, strangers included- meditating with deep breaths and attention on the LDT. Do you mean something more specific by LDT breathing? 

 

I've encountered the exact opposite where teachers have advised against LDT breathing, as it can burn it out. 

 

Unless you're part of a formal training discipline they guide you through, they don't recommend it, especially for beginners and the MCO is as bad too. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Earl Grey

[SirPalomides]

I don’t question your experience but I wonder if there is some disagreement here among practitioners. Maybe it has something to with the purpose- the teachers I have in mind are less inclined to the martial arts aspects of practice and more offering a preliminary stage toward sitting-forgetting meditation.

[Earl Grey]

8 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

I don’t question your experience but I wonder if there is some disagreement here among practitioners. Maybe it has something to with the purpose- the teachers I have in mind are less inclined to the martial arts aspects of practice and more offering a preliminary stage toward sitting-forgetting meditation.

 

Likely there is just a different approach--as we both have encountered teachers saying the exact opposite, it's hard to be conclusive. 

 

To simplify this, I'll speak for what my own teachers and others I've met have said: LDT breathing comes later after having built a foundation of meditation and body re-wiring. Doing it too early is either going to do nothing at best or damage at worst. It's a step-by-step process as the member freeform also wrote the other day when doing Taoist practices. 

 

Sitting-forgetting is an aspect of Golden Flower--and again, this practice is up for debate amongst many, but commonly from the teachers whom I have met, it's the same thing: do Nothing, capital N, and often they will focus on breathing. 

 

While it seems so simple it's stupid, it's the development of the body and mind that makes this precious because of each stage of development that comes with the practice. The specifics are not mentioned on how to do Nothing here, but it's a close approximation of what I and my teachers impart to our students. 

 

Another way of looking at it is this: what fruits are being borne by the students and teachers with their practice? As I come from a martial/healing/neigong background, I can say that the fruits are very specific to what we do, but the ten thousand things come from the one thing. 

[dawei]

First thing I would do is observe your regular breathing pattern... does your breath seem to hang out in the chest (that is what is expanding on inhale) or it goes down to the stomach (that is what is expanding on inhale). 

 

You want you're regular breathing to get down to the stomach so on inhale it is expanding (in 3-D).   

 

Second, I'd start putting tongue against the upper palate, just above the teeth.  24x7.

 

There is a third step to always focus on the LDT... It seems to me there are two outcomes from this:  Focused awareness brings Qi to the area.  You also tend to stop thinking about other life BS.   But the catch is, you should not be aware of such 'focus', otherwise it just turns to a 'practice' which is not natural.  So it is more like you are just 'there' in your LDT. 

 

When all this is naturally done, you could then begin to do abdominal breathing... which might start with just very long and slow inhales with equally long and slow exhales.   There are techniques to closing the huiyin on exhale which encourages the energy to go somewhere else (like up the spine).    This is now already getting ahead of the game but you maybe get the idea of the natural progression.

[Goku76]

Hello all I, have been training everyday to hold a full Lotus position which i now know to be able to cultivate more energy. And while I practice to hold the Lotus i would do zhan zhuang after and I can really feel the breath accumulate and it gets very warm in the dantien i know this might start some controversy, but i was also training to practice mo pai and if anyone could help with that it would be very beneficial to my training. 

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

zhan zhuang

 

People have different ideas for Zhan Zhuang. Someone I spoke with thought he was doing it, but he was only doing wuji, not embracing.

 

Many people think they only need 10 minutes, but our school does it for hours. 

 

2 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

i was also training to practice mo pai and if anyone could help with that it would be very beneficial to my training. 

 

Find a better practice--it's dangerous and incomplete, and unethical to practice stolen instructions. 

[Goku76]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Find a better practice--it's dangerous and incomplete, and unethical to practice stolen instructions. 

Do you think that it is possible to find anybody who has any real instructions to do it, like the instructions online i heard that the so called level 1 that's online is just basic neigong right? and level 2 may cause some injury but if you think about it the analogy of compressing energy is like tai chi where they condense energy in the bones,mo pai is basically the same except where the energy is condensed, is in the dantien. To be honest i don't really care to master the other levels of mo pai just recently i have read the "seeking the master of mo pai" and where Jim explained how he knocked down the books, and pushed the glass. And i used he same method of dropping the breath into the dantien and put my hand out and i had my mother standing 5 feet away and to raise her hand up to mine and before I could even try to pull her hand with chi she told me to stop because she said her hand was getting very hot and that a electricity feeling shot up her arm to her ear and stung. So i guess it works but i want to hear your opinions on it so thank you

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

Do you think that it is possible to find anybody who has any real instructions to do it, like the instructions online i heard that the so called level 1 that's online is just basic neigong right? and level 2 may cause some injury but if you think about it the analogy of compressing energy is like tai chi where they condense energy in the bones,mo pai is basically the same except where the energy is condensed, is in the dantien. To be honest i don't really care to master the other levels of mo pai just recently i have read the "seeking the master of mo pai" and where Jim explained how he knocked down the books, and pushed the glass. And i used he same method of dropping the breath into the dantien and put my hand out and i had my mother standing 5 feet away and to raise her hand up to mine and before I could even try to pull her hand with chi she told me to stop because she said her hand was getting very hot and that a electricity feeling shot up her arm to her ear and stung. So i guess it works but i want to hear your opinions on it so thank you

 

"Do not do it, it is dangerous and you can harm yourself."

 

26 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Find a better practice--it's dangerous and incomplete, and unethical to practice stolen instructions. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Earl Grey

[Power Of Will13]

32 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

Hello all I, have been training everyday to hold a full Lotus position which i now know to be able to cultivate more energy. And while I practice to hold the Lotus i would do zhan zhuang after and I can really feel the breath accumulate and it gets very warm in the dantien i know this might start some controversy, but i was also training to practice mo pai and if anyone could help with that it would be very beneficial to my training. 

@Goku76 Describe your methodology, then it may become clear what is happening. And how long did you practice?

[Goku76]

how long i have been practicing Zhan Zhuang if so about 3 months in total i have been doing energy cultivation for about 2 years but i have noticed that full lotus cultivates the energy faster than any standing pose i have done. 

 

 

Also 

 

Earl Grey what do you recommend i practice to get similar results of mo pai if any.

[Zork]

12 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

Do you think that it is possible to find anybody who has any real instructions to do it, like the instructions online i heard that the so called level 1 that's online is just basic neigong right?

Mopai on the first levels is a normal qigong system.

 

13 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

and level 2 may cause some injury but if you think about it the analogy of compressing energy is like tai chi where they condense energy in the bones,mo pai is basically the same except where the energy is condensed, is in the dantien.

Compressing qi is never safe unless you know what you are doing.

 

14 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

To be honest i don't really care to master the other levels of mo pai just recently i have read the "seeking the master of mo pai" and where Jim explained how he knocked down the books, and pushed the glass.

In an interview before he died, Jim claimed that he used Chang's yin field to do it and that he wasn't capable of doing it otherwise.

15 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

And i used he same method of dropping the breath into the dantien and put my hand out and i had my mother standing 5 feet away and to raise her hand up to mine and before I could even try to pull her hand with chi she told me to stop because she said her hand was getting very hot and that a electricity feeling shot up her arm to her ear and stung. So i guess it works but i want to hear your opinions on it so thank you

This is a very bad idea because you don't know what you are doing. What if you harm your mother? It is a real possibility.

It is possible even for advanced practitioners to do something wrong and damage themselves or those intended to be cured.

In general, messing with other people's energies is not recommended because it has karmic repercussions.

[Goku76]

2 minutes ago, Zork said:

 

This is a very bad idea because you don't know what you are doing. What if you harm your mother? It is a real possibility.

It is possible even for advanced practitioners to do something wrong and damage themselves or those intended to be cured.

In general, messing with other people's energies is not recommended because it has karmic repercussions.

Thank you Zork for responding i do have to agree i felt bad after my mother said that it hurt i had no idea that my energy had gotten that powerful i even stood 5 feet back so that it wouldn't be that bad but the main reason was to see if my energy was actually strong enough to be felt by another person with distance.

[Earl Grey]

23 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

how long i have been practicing Zhan Zhuang if so about 3 months in total i have been doing energy cultivation for about 2 years but i have noticed that full lotus cultivates the energy faster than any standing pose i have done. 

 

 

Also 

 

Earl Grey what do you recommend i practice to get similar results of mo pai if any.

 

Frankly speaking, it appears you are out to have power and are willing to use a stolen system, based on wanting the powers Jim had and using it on your mother. This is 100% wrong. 

 

If you are after healing or martial skills, honestly, you need to readjust your values and your approach. I can't in good conscience recommend most styles or systems out there because of what you are after.

 

If you are willing to change, however, here is what I would do: 

 

1) drop Mo Pai and meditating on the LDT completely. Stop. Two weeks of doing nothing.

 

2) Go look for Fragrant qigong, a system for healing and psychic development. Ideally, learn from the teacher John Dolic, or if money is an issue, there is a free PDF and YouTube videos, but the quality is low and much information is missing, and there are some minor mistakes in the forms on YouTube. 

 

3) Never, ever go out to try to seek personal power as you did with Mo Pai and don't practice without an instructor, not just to do things right and protect you from danger, but to make sure you don't harm anyone else, especially your poor mother. You are inviting angry spirits from Mo Pai, and as a Javanese practice (not Mohist, truthfully), spirits are dangerous things to play with. 

 

At least Fragrant qigong was a gift from Master Tian to humanity and only takes 30-45 minutes a day, no more. 

 

Do not mix Mo Pai with Fragrant qigong. You will die. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Earl Grey

[ralis]

I was nearly burned to a crisp back in the early nineties with prana which is a downward force as opposed to the earth forces in the LDT. I did this after reading Sri Aurobindo's/The Mother writings along with some contact with them in dreams. What happened is that the kundalini forces were awakened and caused me severe physical problems which were exasperated by the intention of the leader of a Shinto healing group I was working with here in Santa Fe. I won't go into detail regarding this, but, suffice it to say that messing around with any of the life forces can be a serious mistake for the naive and unwary. Earl Grey knows what I am talking about.

 

Messing around with prana and kundalini is no laughing matter. I am lucky to be alive!!

Edited January 9, 2020 by ralis

[ralis]

@Goku76

Be aware of disembodied entities, egregores and other malevolent beings hanging around certain groups. I mentioned Shinto for a reason in that I was able to see into the astral the egregore that was messing around with me. It took years to exorcise this particular entity. BTW, I was using some serious heavy duty practices to exorcise this critter and it did not want to go quietly into the night!

Edited January 9, 2020 by ralis

[ralis]

43 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

I smell another mo pai thread here.

 

It has been known to happen!

[ralis]

@Goku76

 

Why not find a Vipassana group and start meditating in this fashion? For what it's worth, this type of self investigation can be of great benefit as opposed to wanting to pursue practices that may not be right for you. I did Vipassana for years and found it to be most useful.

[Zork]

Smells like teen spirit  mopai

[Power Of Will13]

5 hours ago, Goku76 said:

how long i have been practicing Zhan Zhuang if so about 3 months in total i have been doing energy cultivation for about 2 years but i have noticed that full lotus cultivates the energy faster than any standing pose i have done. 

 

 

Also 

 

Earl Grey what do you recommend i practice to get similar results of mo pai if any.

 

I did not find a description of practice here. 

[ralis]

To put it in more scientific terms, kundalini is magnetic and prana is electrical in nature. Please feel to correct that if I am wrong. Prana does feel electrical to me 

[Goku76]

I have another question does anybody on here do reverse breathing on any form like zhan Zhang for example or should I only do abdominal breathing