4 rules of living

[Mig]

I was watching this Youtube video and it made me wonder, is this Daoist thinking or are those 4 rules in the book of the elder Lao? If someone knows, could you be kind to give the references, I sincerely appreciate it. Thanks

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

It comes off like an attempt to distill a snack-size introduction to Lao Tzus teachings.

LT was very clear about his three treasures and De, the virtue/power that manifests in those that follow the Way. 

The quotes don’t really convince me, they come off as a very basic and almost overly simplifying rendition, LT as i read it wasn’t close to being this ”hippyish” in form or message.

 

The video isn’t exactly wrong about it nor is it right or spot on describing it.

Nobody will oppose themselves to the good of the stated cardinal points but that Lao Tzu would have walked around teaching this all over isn’t right.

Afaik he was forced to write his message down while being halted by a border guard who knew him and followed his ideas, the soldier basically forced him at spearpoint to consolidate his wisdom in text before dissappearing from knowledge and sight forever.

He wasn’t really one to put on airs or proselytize some loving kindness and how to succeed in life being a saint, rather he was conscious of the reluctance and disdain many had for his ideas.

 

He wasn’t first nor last, but what the DDJ made was a very early writing from a daoist view of the dao and its virtues on very cosmological and high levels of consideration. ZZ was more folksy, but they both pointed in the same direction more or less.

 

The video isn’t a shoddy or crappy one, it’s just incorrect in framing and tone, imho.

[Mig]

Thanks, not really interested in the video itself but where do they get all that? Where in the book says all that? What part of the DDJ I can find all that?

[rideforever]

This is very interesting because it is fake.  And much of this world is fake.

Why do people do it ?  Don't they know the difference, don't they care ?
Maya is the answer.

This world is so phoney, and the people in it are so ungrounded so false, that the only thing to do is leave.

And fast.

Here we are so far away from the light, that any small amount of truth that filters down to the dark water at the bottom of the ocean, is very soon consumed.

We are too far away from the light to even understand how far away we are.

It is a very bad place to be, full of delusions, of dangers that are unseen.

If you don't intuit the scale of the problem, you perish.

And nobody will notice.

[Mig]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

This is very interesting because it is fake. 

 

 

That's not the reason why I posted it, it is to know where did they get that information, which book, is it in the DDJ? Or is it from Chinese sources?

[Walker]

Lol, it starts off with a statue of Confucius. Nothing like a video made with the guiding principle of, "well, any old oriental with a beard will do, hmm, howzabout Ho Chi Minh or Chang Dai-Chien, those were some sagely looking Chinamen. Ah, fuck it, let's just go with this statue of a guy with a beard, I"m pretty sure statues look even more ancient than black-and-white photos."

 

The rest of it is like somebody ran The Power of Now and 365 Tao through a paper shredder, boiled the remnants into a sediment mixed with baking soda, cocaine, and sex dust, and then smoked the resulting rocks while playing with iMovie for the first time.

 

The Daodejing definitely doesn't say "living in the moment brings you a sense of reverence for all of life's blessings." 

 

However, the creator's other videos, like "How To Start an Online Business Top Must Do's of an Online Business #1," seem much more interesting. Can't wait for #2...

[Earl Grey]

6 minutes ago, Walker said:

Lol, it starts off with a statue of Confucius. Nothing like a video made with the guiding principle of, "well, any old oriental with a beard will do, hmm, howzabout Ho Chi Minh or Chang Dai-Chien, those were some sagely looking Chinamen. Ah, fuck it, let's just go with this statue of a guy with a beard, I"m pretty sure statues look even more ancient than black-and-white photos."

 

I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating here: a guy was arguing with absolutely no uncertainty about things Confucius said, going on and on about it while making no sense. It eventually reached a point one of us asked him if he realized that he was describing the Buddha. The guy then responds matter-of-factly, "Well, of course! Aren't they the same person?" 

 

Right, one Asian guy providing great wisdom and another Asian guy providing ancient wisdom--easy to confuse them, they all look the same anyway. 

 

This guy also insisted a DVD qigong "master" was authentic Chinese lineage and was an actual Chinese master, about as yellow as one can be and therefore legitimate because he's Asian. The DVD ended up being Tai Chi with David Carradine.

 

In response to the video itself...A lot of contemporary entrepreneurs and authors sound more like they are repeating New Age drivel with basic business platitudes and making it "Oriental" with shitty generic music and attributing it to anyone they can to look like they have ancient insight for modern success. 

[Walker]

We need a new response icon for laughing and crying at the same time. I predict it will swiftly become the most frequently used one of all. 

[Mig]

I guess bottom line is another made up idea that doesn't exist in the DDJ or just some ideas and they make up whatever people want and as usual, the web is about selling, selling whatever you want

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, Mig said:

I guess bottom line is another made up idea that doesn't exist in the DDJ or just some ideas and they make up whatever people want and as usual, the web is about selling, selling whatever you want

 

Technically true--there was a study last year that the NYT highlighted how creators of misinformation content and conspiracy theories know it's all bullshit, but they can make money off of it, so they will do whatever it takes and say whatever to monetize it.

 

A sign of the time when people discard ethics for personal fortune...

[Nintendao]

I looked up the source credited at the end of the video
"The Four Rules Of Living According To Lao Tzu By Matt Caron"
http://blog.sivanaspirit.com/sp-gn-rules-of-living-lao-tzu/

 

So ya that guy smells about as Taosist as a box of organic hemp seed granola and sandalwood incense. Googling the exact wording of each alleged quote brings up a barrage of those memey looking wallpapers with text over some random tranquil scenery. Devoid of any leads as to who actually translated/interpreted what in that particular way.

 

Except for number three. That one is literally from O magazine by Oprah Winfrey!

 

Quote

1. Gentleness
"Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love."

 

2. Natural Sincerity
"When pure sincerity forms within, it is outwardly realized in other people's hearts."

 

3. Reverence for all life
"Living in the moment brings you a sense of reverence for all of life's blessings."

 

4. Supportiveness.
"Be supportive. Let go of the ego."
 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Nintendao
typo

[thelerner]

'One important thing.'

             \  {;) 

               ^<>^

                 /|

 

just playing around w/ characters.   

Edited January 14, 2020 by thelerner

[Mig]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:27 AM, Nintendao said:

I looked up the source credited at the end of the video
"The Four Rules Of Living According To Lao Tzu By Matt Caron"
http://blog.sivanaspirit.com/sp-gn-rules-of-living-lao-tzu/

 

So ya that guy smells about as Taosist as a box of organic hemp seed granola and sandalwood incense. Googling the exact wording of each alleged quote brings up a barrage of those memey looking wallpapers with text over some random tranquil scenery. Devoid of any leads as to who actually translated/interpreted what in that particular way.

 

Except for number three. That one is literally from O magazine by Oprah Winfrey!

 

 

Thanks for sharing, I found the same information, do anyone see anything of those  in the DDJ?

[Nintendao]

Hi @Mig. It is kind of an interesting prompt to dig around in the actual Daode, and try to reverse paraphrase where some of this might have come from. Over all it's a nice message, but I agree with the sentiment that it's mostly regurgitated amalgamation of perceived themes rather than anything specific.

 

My first impression of #2 "When pure sincerity forms within, it is outwardly realized in other people's hearts," was that is was somehow out of context from Chapter 2 where it says "The world together knowing beauty to be beauty." Maybe Ch. 3 "By not displaying what is desirable, you will cause the people's hearts to remain undisturbed."

 

#4 "Be supportive. Let go of the ego," reminds me of Ch. 27 "Therefore the sage always kindly rescues people," and 28 "Know the masculine, keep to the feminine," where you can be both heroic and humble.

 

I also saw where Taoistic did an article about these kind of quotes. Here's his take on #1 "Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love."

Quote

If I have to guess, I'd say that this fake quote is a flawed interpretation of a few lines in chapter 67 of the Tao Te Ching. Here is my version of them:

By compassion one can be brave.

By moderation one can be generous.

By not claiming to be first in the world one can rule.

http://www.taoistic.com/fake-laotzu-quotes/fake-laotzu-quote-Kindness_in_words_creates_confidence.htm

 

As for the framing in a "Four Cardinal Rules" layout, it does appear to be complete bunk typical appropriation of "Ancient Eastern Wisdom." Especially because Buddhism's famous Four Noble Truths, even though that is about different territory dealing with attachment and perception.

[Nintendao]

Chapter 8, which describes how "The highest good is like water. Water knows how to benefit all things without striving," seems to relate a little bit to all four points of Gentleness, Sincerity, Reverence, and Supportiveness.

 

Another good one for "Let go of the ego," is in Ch. 49, that "The sage is shy and self-effacing," and "has no interests of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own."

 

Now for the Oprah quote, #3 "Living in the moment brings you a sense of reverence for all of life's blessings," I like the point of view in Chapter 13 that we can "Welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise. Prize calamities as your own body." Hinting that even when something bad happens, it is still a precious moment of being alive in the first place.

 

( The DDJ quotes I used are based mostly from the John C.H. Wu translation. https://terebess.hu/english/tao/wu.html 

and some cross referencing of the traditional Chinese via http://zhongwen.com/dao.htm )

[Mig]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I guess we can bring many chapters that talk about something particular on those made up statements. I find it confusing and misleading. Letting them get credit for something that doesn't validate a way of thinking or cultivating the Dao, is a way for them to make money and be accepted. I think a Daoist would say not to worry. My only concern for someone who's interested in Daoism or the DDJ is to make the study or learning more difficult.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

On 2020-01-17 at 7:43 AM, Mig said:

I think a Daoist would say not to worry. 

 

Second that thought, sounds like the best advice at this particular time.

 

On 2020-01-17 at 7:43 AM, Mig said:

My only concern for someone who's interested in Daoism or the DDJ is to make the study or learning more difficult.

 

Oh, this is another one of those things where you ought to not worry, for your own sake. Battle one of these gross misconceptions and fifteen new rapidly multiplying ones arise immediately.

Not to mention all the bonafide crap that turns up just about anywhere you turn your head. Just spitting a few random ones out of the top of my head results in the following: ”Tao of this sort of business venture”, ”Lao Tzu is Jesus but Jesus isn’t Lao Tzu” and ”Dao De Gym”. I would not be surprised to find out they are in fact real books.

For every real perspective into Daoism there are at least ten thousand fake ones, both malicious and well meaning.

 

These things will die soon, dont worry about them.