Lust - and what to do about it

[EFS White]

I have asked for your guys' opinion about this before, but as it poses as recurring problem for me, I would like to reach out to you again.

 

I feel like I am very susceptible to sexual triggers and lustful sentiments; more so than I feel is good for me.

 

The kind of cultivation I am practicing advises to transmute sexual energy and shun desire and wayward lustful thoughts.

 

Aside from breathing exercises what has worked best for you guys here?

I appreciate your answers.

[Nungali]

Channel it into creative endeavours  - the two are closely linked .

 

Lust is a wonderful thing when it breaks the bounds of sexuality , like eg , 'lust for life' .

 

Its another way of looking at it .

 

 

" This Trump was formerly called Strength. But it implies far more than strength in the ordinary sense of the word. .... Lust implies not only strength, but the joy of strength exercised. It is vigour, and the rapture of vigour.

“Come forth, O children, under the stars, & take your fill of love! I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy.”

“Beauty and strength, leaping laughter and delicious languor, force and fire, are of us.”

..... Be strong, O man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.”

 

...

This Trump is assigned to the sign of Leo in the Zodiac. It is the Kerub of Fire, and is ruled by the Sun. It is the most powerful of the twelve Zodiacal cards,' and represents the most critical of all the operations of magick and of alchemy. It represents the act of the original marriage as it occurs in nature, as opposed to the more artificial form portrayed in Atu VI; ( the Lovers) .  "

 

- The Book of Thoth

[Nungali]

For, when lust is active and is not released , or released in the 'same old boring way ', it eventually devolves to ;

 

 

 

 

 

indolence

/ˈɪnd(ə)l(ə)ns/

 

1. avoidance of activity or exertion; laziness.

    

    

   and eventually you will 'burn out'  your 'lust supply'   and find it hard to get motivated to do anything .  

[old3bob]

have 10,000 helpings of every type of ice cream and it won't be enough...have sex 10,000 times with every kind of partner and it won't be enough... come to know what is enough or  one will suffer/"burn out".  also the higher pleasure of dharmas fulfilled are always greater than sensory pleasures that can go awry.

[BluLotus]

One would need a bit more information in order to answer your question. Do you have vows of celibacy?

[thelerner]

Hard workouts..

Cold showers..

[EFS White]

On 20.1.2020 at 12:48 AM, BluLotus said:

One would need a bit more information in order to answer your question. Do you have vows of celibacy?

 

Thank you for your post.

I did not take an official vow of celibacy. However, I am following a gnostic cultivation tradition that proposes not to ejaculate and not to fornicate but does strongly advise dual cultivation with one's spouse.
 

As you said a bit more information might be needed to properly answer my question, so long story short:

 

Ever since the birth of our baby boy (and really before that during pregnancy) my partner and I stopped having sex altogether - due to pain issues mostly, plus my partner not really feeling in the mood. So this, say, 'involuntary abstinence' has been going on for about ten months now and doesn't jibe too well with my dual cultivation ideal.

 

Now over the course of the last few months I have noticed recurring episodes of severe lust and sexual fantasy, which I really thought and hoped I had moved past.

 

Anyway, so that's that.

[ilumairen]

6 hours ago, EFS White said:

 

Thank you for your post.

I did not take an official vow of celibacy. However, I am following a gnostic cultivation tradition that proposes not to ejaculate and not to fornicate but does strongly advise dual cultivation with one's spouse.
 

As you said a bit more information might be needed to properly answer my question, so long story short:

 

Ever since the birth of our baby boy (and really before that during pregnancy) my partner and I stopped having sex altogether - due to pain issues mostly, plus my partner not really feeling in the mood. So this, say, 'involuntary abstinence' has been going on for about ten months now and doesn't jibe too well with my dual cultivation ideal.

 

Now over the course of the last few months I have noticed recurring episodes of severe lust and sexual fantasy, which I really thought and hoped I had moved past.

 

Anyway, so that's that.

 

This helps to clarify the present situation immensely. Some more questions if you don't mind:

 

Is your wife following a similar path, and does she understand you still wish intimacy?

 

What efforts have you made to help enable her to reach the place within to express and experience this intimacy with you?

 

Are there still the tender touches, smiles, and moments of simple connection between you two throughout the day?

[liminal_luke]

40 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

This helps to clarify the present situation immensely. Some more questions if you don't mind:

 

Is your wife following a similar path, and does she understand you still wish intimacy?

 

What efforts have you made to help enable her to reach the place within to express and experience this intimacy with you?

 

Are there still the tender touches, smiles, and moments of simple connection between you two throughout the day?

 

To me, this feels like a productive line of inquiry.  A new baby boy -- wow, what a potent transitional period. I wouldn`t look at the erotic feelings you are having as some sort of problem that you have to deal with alone, through spiritual practice or by any other means: you and your partner are taking this journey through shifting sexual wants/needs together. It`s not that either of you are wrong.  You are not wrong if you feel lustful; your partner is not wrong if she doesn`t.  Rather, this seeming problem is really an invitation to doing the "dual cultivation" of digging deep into the roots of your togetherness.  Out of this process a stronger bond could emerge. 

[RiverSnake]

Your energy is quite frail, PM me if your interested in some healing work. 

 

Kamajayi Mudra done daily is helpful for transmuting sexual energy. 

[Apech]

On 1/16/2020 at 12:17 AM, old3bob said:

have 10,000 helpings of every type of ice cream and it won't be enough...have sex 10,000 times with every kind of partner and it won't be enough... come to know what is enough or  one will suffer/"burn out".  also the higher pleasure of dharmas fulfilled are always greater than sensory pleasures that can go awry.

 

 

I agree - you can't get enough of ice cream.

[Apech]

8 hours ago, EFS White said:

 

Thank you for your post.

I did not take an official vow of celibacy. However, I am following a gnostic cultivation tradition that proposes not to ejaculate and not to fornicate but does strongly advise dual cultivation with one's spouse.
 

As you said a bit more information might be needed to properly answer my question, so long story short:

 

Ever since the birth of our baby boy (and really before that during pregnancy) my partner and I stopped having sex altogether - due to pain issues mostly, plus my partner not really feeling in the mood. So this, say, 'involuntary abstinence' has been going on for about ten months now and doesn't jibe too well with my dual cultivation ideal.

 

Now over the course of the last few months I have noticed recurring episodes of severe lust and sexual fantasy, which I really thought and hoped I had moved past.

 

Anyway, so that's that.

 

 

May I ask - what does your partner think about this - is she happy about the no-sex and more so is she happy generally?  Big hormone changes are a massive thing and can knock you for six.

 

 

[ralis]

8 hours ago, EFS White said:

 

Thank you for your post.

I did not take an official vow of celibacy. However, I am following a gnostic cultivation tradition that proposes not to ejaculate and not to fornicate but does strongly advise dual cultivation with one's spouse.
 

As you said a bit more information might be needed to properly answer my question, so long story short:

 

Ever since the birth of our baby boy (and really before that during pregnancy) my partner and I stopped having sex altogether - due to pain issues mostly, plus my partner not really feeling in the mood. So this, say, 'involuntary abstinence' has been going on for about ten months now and doesn't jibe too well with my dual cultivation ideal.

 

Now over the course of the last few months I have noticed recurring episodes of severe lust and sexual fantasy, which I really thought and hoped I had moved past.

 

Anyway, so that's that.

 

How do you define lust? Is your concept of lust an indoctrination which is expressed as repression from a religious authoritarian source? Guilt, shame?

 

There is nothing wrong with having emotions/feelings, but how one expresses these particular forces. Sexual/emotional suppression will result in any number of expressions........

 

Humans are the result of evolutionary forces which started around 3.4 billion years ago.

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, EFS White said:

 

Thank you for your post.

I did not take an official vow of celibacy. However, I am following a gnostic cultivation tradition that proposes not to ejaculate and not to fornicate but does strongly advise dual cultivation with one's spouse.
 

As you said a bit more information might be needed to properly answer my question, so long story short:

 

Ever since the birth of our baby boy (and really before that during pregnancy) my partner and I stopped having sex altogether - due to pain issues mostly, plus my partner not really feeling in the mood. So this, say, 'involuntary abstinence' has been going on for about ten months now and doesn't jibe too well with my dual cultivation ideal.

 

Now over the course of the last few months I have noticed recurring episodes of severe lust and sexual fantasy, which I really thought and hoped I had moved past.

 

Anyway, so that's that.

 

Oh man !   Babies change EVERYTHING ! 

 

My distraught neighbour and friend was visiting and lamenting his relationship and GF ... not the same , dont party, dont travel (he is a young Euro , his partner older ). he kept doing it aand I had to smack him out of it ... right between the eyes ;

 

: But you dont have GF anymore ..... you have a mother of your child .   You are not a Euro party rager anymore ... you are a farther . Your relation ship of BF : GF is GONE ..... now you are parents !

 

It can take some years to re stabilise  - if it ever does . 

 

I dont know what school of gnostic 'tantra' you are practising , but in the schools ( old school, not modern  )  I am familiar with , the END of such practices are to bring about more enlightened children into the world - to improve the world . If thats the case , then one's 'cultivation' moves to the next stage , supporting and nurturing your creation .

 

I also know that some traditions lost this 'big picture' and only adopted the personal cultivation  practice , without addressing, the often inevitable,  conclusions .

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

I agree - you can't get enough of ice cream.

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

For my partner in life and in life creation, (we have one son), the action of Tao in our sexual interest is like a bellows...

Kind of like in every other aspect of life I"m beginning to notice... if slowly.

 

We definitely recognize patterns in our three decades together... not just of sexual pursuit and interest, but in collective interests, artistic pursuits, topics and areas of study.

 

My gal and I come together in 'seasons'... in many areas of life.

 

After our son came.  There were permeative and foundational shifts, both subtle and overwhelming... She had some post-partum depression and the reality of being a parent for both of us, brought a whole keel full of buried parent child memories and relevant energies to the surface that took time, patience and more time, to balance.

 

Keep communicating... very openly and frankly.

Talk talk talk and reach out with love. 

The rest will occur as nature unfolds...

 

 

 

 

[EFS White]

19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

This helps to clarify the present situation immensely. Some more questions if you don't mind:

 

Is your wife following a similar path, and does she understand you still wish intimacy?

 

What efforts have you made to help enable her to reach the place within to express and experience this intimacy with you?

 

Are there still the tender touches, smiles, and moments of simple connection between you two throughout the day?

Thank you for your input, and for bringing a few more questions to my attention.

We regularly talk about my desire for intimacy, and she is open about her just not being in the mood for anything sexual, which we agree is most certainly still due to hormonal changes due to breastfeeding etc. Additionally, we suspect that she sustained an injury from the C-section procedure, as she experiences pain from the first moment of penetration. So that certainly doesn't help either.

While we are compatible in our metaphysical worldviews she is not actively pursuing a spiritual practice regimen, but she knows my stance and practice in regards to meditation, inner work, and dual cultivation (including non-ejaculatory sex, although she will usually orgasm).

The tender touches etc. are still there. Of course a lot has changed due to our baby boy. And while these are more than welcome changes, I get a sense that my partner sometimes feels quite overwhelmed, and regularly is in a very bad, frustrated or angry mood.




 

[EFS White]

19 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

To me, this feels like a productive line of inquiry.  A new baby boy -- wow, what a potent transitional period. I wouldn`t look at the erotic feelings you are having as some sort of problem that you have to deal with alone, through spiritual practice or by any other means: you and your partner are taking this journey through shifting sexual wants/needs together. It`s not that either of you are wrong.  You are not wrong if you feel lustful; your partner is not wrong if she doesn`t.  Rather, this seeming problem is really an invitation to doing the "dual cultivation" of digging deep into the roots of your togetherness.  Out of this process a stronger bond could emerge. 

I greatly appreciate your answer and input, thank you.

I wholeheartedly agree that having a child is a potent transitional period, and I am actually thrilled at the prospect of growing into this new role as parents.

While my partner and I can very well agree to have this discrepancy in our sexual needs for the time being, what really stresses me about my lustful episodes is that they are not always directed towards my partner.

So to be clear: It is not simply me feeling lustful that bothers me. What bothers and concerns me is a new flaring up of sexual desire and sexual fantasy with other women I encounter. This is something I would love to overcome and frankly just be rid of, and I had dearly hope that as a father I wouldn't have to struggle with this again.
 

[Apech]

7 minutes ago, EFS White said:

Thank you for your input, and for bringing a few more questions to my attention.

We regularly talk about my desire for intimacy, and she is open about her just not being in the mood for anything sexual, which we agree is most certainly still due to hormonal changes due to breastfeeding etc. Additionally, we suspect that she sustained an injury from the C-section procedure, as she experiences pain from the first moment of penetration. So that certainly doesn't help either.

While we are compatible in our metaphysical worldviews she is not actively pursuing a spiritual practice regimen, but she knows my stance and practice in regards to meditation, inner work, and dual cultivation (including non-ejaculatory sex, although she will usually orgasm).

The tender touches etc. are still there. Of course a lot has changed due to our baby boy. And while these are more than welcome changes, I get a sense that my partner sometimes feels quite overwhelmed, and regularly is in a very bad, frustrated or angry mood.




 

 

 

Has she consulted a doctor about this?

[EFS White]

18 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

May I ask - what does your partner think about this - is she happy about the no-sex and more so is she happy generally?  Big hormone changes are a massive thing and can knock you for six.

 

 

 

Thank you for your questions.

My partner says she is fine with not having sex right now, as she doesn't really feel in the mood for anything to do with sex at the moment, plus experiencing pain from it, due to an injury obviously sustained during the C-section procedure, which unfortunately was medically necessary for us.

I would not assess her to be "happy generally", even though our lives are really going great right now. As I have stated above, obviously she has to shoulder the greater part of taking care of our baby boy (due to breastfeeding and me working) and she states that she feels very much overwhelmed by these new responsibilities at times. To me she often seems angry, irritable and pessimistic in a way that doesn't correspond with our actual life situation.

[EFS White]

17 hours ago, ralis said:

 

How do you define lust? Is your concept of lust an indoctrination which is expressed as repression from a religious authoritarian source? Guilt, shame?

 

There is nothing wrong with having emotions/feelings, but how one expresses these particular forces. Sexual/emotional suppression will result in any number of expressions........

 

Humans are the result of evolutionary forces which started around 3.4 billion years ago.

 

 

I appreciate your input and impulse to think about me definitions here.

I am not affiliated with a religious institution but rather have explored and built my own metaphysical understanding over the years from varied sources.

Lust, to me, is an undue attachment to sensual pleasure or desire for such pleasures that distracts me from the goal of my inner work, which is to work towards purification and ultimately union with divinity. More precisely it is episodes of unruly sexual fantasy about women and the urge to have sex / masturbate / ejaculate.

I have actually spend quite a few hours meditation on this whole issue last night, and I was reminded on wisdom drawn from the Bhagavad Gita, that indeed these lustful impulses are "just nature attaching to nature". So that is one way I can look at it and be okay with the impulses themselves, knowing that as long as I experience this physical existence my sense will enjoy and long for objects of the senses.

I guess what bothers me is to see how these sexual desires creep into my mind sometimes, trying to steer me away from my spiritual convictions.

 

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, EFS White said:

I greatly appreciate your answer and input, thank you.

I wholeheartedly agree that having a child is a potent transitional period, and I am actually thrilled at the prospect of growing into this new role as parents.

While my partner and I can very well agree to have this discrepancy in our sexual needs for the time being, what really stresses me about my lustful episodes is that they are not always directed towards my partner.

So to be clear: It is not simply me feeling lustful that bothers me. What bothers and concerns me is a new flaring up of sexual desire and sexual fantasy with other women I encounter. This is something I would love to overcome and frankly just be rid of, and I had dearly hope that as a father I wouldn't have to struggle with this again.
 

 

 

Until you are a unified being (which is quite an advanced achievement) different parts of your organism will act/react to the world in different ways.  Primal drives which are basically food and sex are indiscriminate - that is our snake or reptile brain/mind just wants to gratify itself and so whatever or whoever attracts it.  This is normally inhibited by both social conditioning (civilising process) and more importantly our own heart, as we wish to be compassionate loving beings and also our ethics.  So there's a kind of battle between our base energy and our 'higher' mind.  Just lifting the lid off the lower mind is not good as it will lead to indiscriminate self indulgence but on the other hand repression will lead to psychological problems.  You need to place yourself as the observer of the whole process and see it as an education about the true nature of your being.  The lustful energy itself is neutral or more than that essential to life - but it gets locked into objects which it sees as potential gratification i.e. women - but actually what it really wants/needs is a kind of reflexion back onto itself.  Hope this makes sense

[EFS White]

Thank you for your input, Nungali.

The transition into parenthood is actually something I feel quite ready for, and one that I very much welcome. I have never been a party person and I do not feel like I have to learn to give up anything such as drinking and partying, as I have never found any meaning in that anyway.

 

I love this aspect of your post a lot:

 

Quote

I dont know what school of gnostic 'tantra' you are practising , but in the schools ( old school, not modern  )  I am familiar with , the END of such practices are to bring about more enlightened children into the world - to improve the world . If thats the case , then one's 'cultivation' moves to the next stage , supporting and nurturing your creation .

 

I appreciate that perspective of looking at my little boy as a next stage of cultivation. That is just beautiful. Thank you.

[Apech]

10 minutes ago, EFS White said:

 

Thank you for your questions.

My partner says she is fine with not having sex right now, as she doesn't really feel in the mood for anything to do with sex at the moment, plus experiencing pain from it, due to an injury obviously sustained during the C-section procedure, which unfortunately was medically necessary for us.

I would not assess her to be "happy generally", even though our lives are really going great right now. As I have stated above, obviously she has to shoulder the greater part of taking care of our baby boy (due to breastfeeding and me working) and she states that she feels very much overwhelmed by these new responsibilities at times. To me she often seems angry, irritable and pessimistic in a way that doesn't correspond with our actual life situation.

 

Obviously I would counsel patience with your partner.  I do think this is something you'll have to sort out with her sooner or later - but it needs to be when she is ready.  I know from personal experience how life changing having a baby can be - and the work/care involved can be overwhelming.  Has she got mom/family nearby who can help out?

[Chainer]

Given you original question: 

 

On 15/01/2020 at 10:09 AM, EFS White said:

 

I feel like I am very susceptible to sexual triggers and lustful sentiments; more so than I feel is good for me.

 

The kind of cultivation I am practicing advises to transmute sexual energy and shun desire and wayward lustful thoughts.

 

Aside from breathing exercises what has worked best for you guys here?

 

Before you can 'shun' such thoughts you need to know how to deal with them, cause in many ways they are a good thing.

 

This is one of the bigger rabbit holes in sexual alchemy, full of multiple and complicated locks that take months to learn (even find the muscles for), Mingmen work, all sorts of mad stuff however, keeping it mainstream, the simplest guidance you could do today for dealing with this is quoted as below. 

1. Stand straight and breathe out completely
2. Bend over forward putting your hands on your knees, forcing out the last trace of air
3. With your lungs empty return to standing straight posture
4. Put your hands on your waist and push your shoulders up by pressing down with your hands. Pull the abdomen in as much as possible and raise your chest - keeping your lungs empty.
5. Hold this position as long as you can, with empty lungs
6. Breathe in slowly through the nose until your lungs are full
7. Exhale through the mouth, relaxing arms to hang free
8. Take several deep breaths before the next repetition

Your desire should pass in 1 rep, 2 reps max.

 

You want to go further, then quickly lift you sphincter (basic root lock) and pull in the focal length of you eyes much as you can so they cross (basic Yi use) at the same you stand up. The effective of this will depend on how far down the left hand path you are, but it can be a bit of a head trip, so go easy. If it works for you then try to start using a basic root lock much as you can, particularly when walking around. 

 

Good luck.