What are your thoughts on AI and its coming implications?

[alchemystical]

Wherever we look we see computers are up in your face which logically means they will soon be literally in your face as implants so people can get the "always on" hit they crave. Its blatantly obvious this tech is designed to be addictive and if what makes us perch atop the animals as an apex predator is our larger brain and what it endows us with what happens when silicon becomes king? Will we go the way of the neanderthal?

 

I know we have a mixed bag crowd on here so am interested in hearing what you think.

[sagebrush]

edit

Edited January 16, 2020 by sagebrush

[silent thunder]

Have a conversation with a friend that is ongoing about how humans are already partial cyborg conversions.

 

Pacemakers and mechanical hearts are the obvious components we already use to augment weak biological bits.

 

But the computers we carry in our pockets, which we refer to as 'phones'... my buddy says those are the first brain augmentations.  Consider how often we no longer bother to wrack memory for answers to questions, instead using the phone to augment memory for answers to questions that arise in conversation.  They're just not installed in our physical bodies yet, we carry them externally.

 

We certainly are an endlessly intriguing form of life.  What will we think up next?

[alchemystical]

1 hour ago, sagebrush said:

I do not think you can speak in regards to what myself or other would crave or not.

 

Why don't we safely assume you crave it.  

 

Computers play a very small part of my life. 

 

anything outside of a balance is trouble

 

After reading this I don't have to assume you're an asshat because you've just proved it with your solipsistic reasoning. Don't bother replying, no need to explain yourself to me. You're done here.

 

Good day.

 

 

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Have a conversation with a friend that is ongoing about how humans are already partial cyborg conversions.

 

Pacemakers and mechanical hearts are the obvious components we already use to augment weak biological bits.

 

But the computers we carry in our pockets, which we refer to as 'phones'... my buddy says those are the first brain augmentations.  Consider how often we no longer bother to wrack memory for answers to questions, instead using the phone to augment memory for answers to questions that arise in conversation.  They're just not installed in our physical bodies yet, we carry them externally.

 

We certainly are an endlessly intriguing form of life.  What will we think up next?

 

Indeed. Thats the gist of what I'm saying as aside from those who remember the old days without such digital devices we now have entire generations that were raised via screens and we're seeing adaptations and shifts in the kids neurochemistry and processing methods. A teacher told me the other day that kids attention spans are so fragmented these days that she had to switch up her entire teaching style into bitesize "memeable" bits of info as they couldn't process entire long chain concepts as they'd forget half way through.

 

The implications of this are absolutely stunning and thats before we get into how such a large percentage of adults are under the thrall of their smartphones day and night. I truly view it as an addiction as it stimulates the same pleasure centers by design, much like people were happily doing morphine and cocaine back in the days because people didn't see the sides - that's where we are at with tech except by the time people realize that they'll already have implants that will internally censor that thought from coming to awareness...

 

 

[sagebrush]

edit

  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by sagebrush

[thelerner]

i for one,         

welcome our AI invaders,

and would like to remind them,

that i can be useful,

rounding up the other

disturbing Biologicals.  

 

 

At the moment AI is fascinating but tends to be very much 'idiot savant'.  Anyone have any links to the latest greatest AIs?  Particularly examples where its 'crossed over' from one skill set to another.   

 

https://builtin.com/artificial-intelligence/examples-ai-in-industry

 

 

hmnn perhaps greatest driver for human technological advancement is porn.  We invented the phone, so we could call others, asking for sex.  We invented cars, so we could drive to them.   While the internet is used for many noble endeavors art, science, philosophy, education.. all those pale compared to the space and wattage spent on porn.  Thus until AI gets its game on, we have nothing to worry about.  

Edited January 16, 2020 by thelerner

[alchemystical]

8 hours ago, sagebrush said:

I have to go to work where it is relaxing and peaceful. I will be back later to share a different perspective.

 

things will find a balance eventually

 

and call me all the names you want for your need to be superior

 

 

I said dont speak for me.

  

 

 

 

 

 

The cats know whats up.

 

 

 

Pussy.

 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Have a conversation with a friend that is ongoing about how humans are already partial cyborg conversions.

 

Pacemakers and mechanical hearts are the obvious components we already use to augment weak biological bits.

 

But the computers we carry in our pockets, which we refer to as 'phones'... my buddy says those are the first brain augmentations.  Consider how often we no longer bother to wrack memory for answers to questions, instead using the phone to augment memory for answers to questions that arise in conversation.  They're just not installed in our physical bodies yet, we carry them externally.

 

We certainly are an endlessly intriguing form of life.  What will we think up next?

 

And the more we rely on that the more our minds atrophy and the more 'know how' is lost .

 

If we look at the development of 'intelligence ' ,  in recent history it has developed at an exponential  rate , so much so that it has  gone past the capabilities ( in certain ways )  of the human container  ( brain )  and now the 'evolution of intelligence' has surpassed the human capability - even though we invented it .

 

I am reminded of 'Aides' (from 'Bondi Hipsters' comedy series ) who mocked his father when he offered to pay Dom's University fees for any subject he chose ;  " Thats the problem with your old generation, you dont realise ; why would anyone want to go to University nowadays , when all you have to do, if you want to know something, is look it up on youtube. "

Edited January 16, 2020 by Nungali

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, alchemystical said:

 

After reading this I don't have to assume you're an asshat because you've just proved it with your solipsistic reasoning. Don't bother replying, no need to explain yourself to me. You're done here.

 

Good day.

 

 

 

Indeed. Thats the gist of what I'm saying as aside from those who remember the old days without such digital devices we now have entire generations that were raised via screens and we're seeing adaptations and shifts in the kids neurochemistry and processing methods. A teacher told me the other day that kids attention spans are so fragmented these days that she had to switch up her entire teaching style into bitesize "memeable" bits of info as they couldn't process entire long chain concepts as they'd forget half way through.

 

The implications of this are absolutely stunning and thats before we get into how such a large percentage of adults are under the thrall of their smartphones day and night. I truly view it as an addiction as it stimulates the same pleasure centers by design, much like people were happily doing morphine and cocaine back in the days because people didn't see the sides - that's where we are at with tech except by the time people realize that they'll already have implants that will internally censor that thought from coming to awareness...

 

 

 

I have actually lost relationships with friends due to this .  I mean the OUTWARD relationship is there, but what is the point of being with someone when they are on their phone all the time ?

 

And as far as attention spans go ....  Jeezus !  Even simple directions cant seem to be remembered or understood any more .

 

I have other threads around here on this .... including 'the death of the story teller '

 

 

 

[sagebrush]

nothing

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by sagebrush
edit

[alchemystical]

49 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

And the more we rely on that the more our minds atrophy and the more 'know how' is lost .

 

If we look at the development of 'intelligence ' ,  in recent history it has developed at an exponential  rate , so much so that it has  gone past the capabilities ( in certain ways )  of the human container  ( brain )  and now the 'evolution of intelligence' has surpassed the human capability - even though we invented it .

 

Exactly my friend, exactly. People are caught up in the shine and don't realize - nor need to develop - their innate talent or abilities. I recently said how if you picked a random man and woman for 50 years ago and compared them to todays models the vintage version would be much more capable in so many respects and this in effect speaks of collective devolution under the guise of technological improvement.

 

People generally don't feel the need nor use of flexing their mental muscle as everything is "one click away" but anyone who has been around the block once or twice can easily attest that the vast majority of people walking around these days are simpletons as it seems to be the default operating speed of most of the populace. What is most interesting however is that with a few well placed questions you can almost see them shaking off the torpor as they stop and think - for possibly the first time in quite a while - and wonder.

 

Wonder. What a wonderful feeling it is to be full of wonder.

 

42 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

I have actually lost relationships with friends due to this .  I mean the OUTWARD relationship is there, but what is the point of being with someone when they are on their phone all the time ?

 

And as far as attention spans go ....  Jeezus !  Even simple directions cant seem to be remembered or understood any more .

 

I have other threads around here on this .... including 'the death of the story teller '

 

I'll have to check that out as I do think that stories are far more important that people give them credit for as back in the days this was how the tribe passed its collective wisdom down to the next generation and that leads into the creation of myths, the collective unconscious and all manner of interesting things.

 

1 minute ago, GSmaster said:

A.I is great

 

Great addition to human life.

 

Even greater when you have A.I chip in the brain

 

Explain.

[silent thunder]

I'm reminded of the accounts of Socrates and his rants on the evils of the reliance upon the written word?  Reading weakens minds.  Keeping things stored in books... pfft.  This will cause the rot of the active mind...

 

 

My wife and I have been together over 30 years now... and it's fascinating when we begin to diverge on our memories of long ago happenings, or of recent ones...

 

 

I recall in my acting days, 80's and 90's, I memorized not just my lines... but the entire show, often without trying, just through the repetition and having my mind in that state of memory and recollection so regularly.

 

Then six months later, running into one of the actors from the show @ an audition... and while I could still recite their soliloquy from Act 2, somehow their name.... uhhhhhh... hmm... .

 

 

Memory and our relationship to it is fascinating.  Particularly in how depending on the mood one is in when retelling a tale, will bring up different details from it.

 

[alchemystical]

1 minute ago, GSmaster said:

 

Explain what, We are already using A.I technology to boost our evolution and cultivation speed

You smell like a troll. Dismissed.

[Taomeow]

16 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Will we go the way of the neanderthal?

 

Yeah, we wish.  

 

No, the most likely scenario is being overwritten with someone else's consciousness once you're equipped with a chip.  It's their way to be immortal.   Who are "they?"  That's a trillion dollar question.  Maybe just our very own very rich transhumanists.  Maybe those they serve who may well have long been immortal via this method, hopping planets or civilizations on this one, instigating technological progress, reaping the benefits, using up and discarding the "resources."  The resources R us.  

 

Quite a few "philosophical technophiles" who think transhumanism is the answer naively believe that their own consciousness will eventually be stored in some big computer as a way to stay alive once the body is deceased.  No.  Someone else's consciousness will be stored on your chip, in your own fully functional body belonging to someone who can afford immortality.  Someone who has talked you into the irresistibly seductive benefits of implementing this technology on a mass scale.  Someone wealthy and powerful enough to not even consider dying as an option -- someone for whom killing is the ticket and has always been.  Except technological progress makes it possible to kill just the mind and use the body for one's own.   Once it wears out, it will be discarded and the next body will be provided.  

 

it's not the future, by the way, far as I can tell.  It's right now.  Not on a mass scale yet.  But that's where it's headed.

 

Neanderthals, incidentally, may have been considered before us.  Looks like they flatly refused to cooperate -- they had bigger brains and thought clearer than we ever did from the get-go -- so the stone axe they were using didn't change its design for a million years.  I want to repeat this.  They used a tool which they didn't redesign for a million years -- that's how a smart species says no to the advent of "progress."  How did they know?  Smart, intuitive, insightful, refused to be fooled?  And, yes, they were wiped out eventually (no natural causes involved -- there's never been a neanderthal skull found that wasn't bashed in) but it's one of those "better die standing than live kneeling" scenarios methinks.  

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Taomeow

[dwai]

So long as I don’t have to struggle to survive, I’m all for AI to do the bs work and I can focus on more human pursuits that require a consciousness  

 

BTW I am quite convinced that AI will never result in Self-aware consciousness. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by dwai

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, alchemystical said:

 

Exactly my friend, exactly. People are caught up in the shine and don't realize - nor need to develop - their innate talent or abilities. I recently said how if you picked a random man and woman for 50 years ago and compared them to todays models the vintage version would be much more capable in so many respects and this in effect speaks of collective devolution under the guise of technological improvement.

 

I read an old report of a Victorian gentleman lamenting this back then ; ' A few years back a woman could fix just about any thing she used with a hat pin and a man with a crew driver . I would have to be one of the most hopeless mechanics around,  many years back my car broke down and after a visual and some linear logic I was ale to fix the problem . Now when I open a car's bonnet , it doesnt even look like an engine . Thats all good  .... until something goes wrong .

 

We could say that about all of western society .   Imagine the internet going down for a week !

 

I am amazed  at the number of people I have witnessed that cant even get a fire going or sustain it long enough to cook food , and this in the land of 'The Great Australian BBQ   '   ( Webber BBQ , that is )

 

Which is really just a kitchen unit wheeled into the yard   

 

I mean, managing   fire   ..... THAT has to be the basic human skill  !

 

 

1 hour ago, alchemystical said:

 

People generally don't feel the need nor use of flexing their mental muscle as everything is "one click away" but anyone who has been around the block once or twice can easily attest that the vast majority of people walking around these days are simpletons as it seems to be the default operating speed of most of the populace. What is most interesting however is that with a few well placed questions you can almost see them shaking off the torpor as they stop and think - for possibly the first time in quite a while - and wonder.

 

Wonder. What a wonderful feeling it is to be full of wonder.

 

I'll have to check that out as I do think that stories are far more important that people give them credit for as back in the days this was how the tribe passed its collective wisdom down to the next generation and that leads into the creation of myths, the collective unconscious and all manner of interesting things.

 

A few years back, when I was actively involved in an 'initiation fraternity'  I held the first three degree rituals (all parts, not just mine ) in my head  - probably over 200 pages .

 

At present I am mentally storing (and can perform ) 18 empty hand kata  ( some with up to 60 moves )  and 15  various weapons  kata (patterns ) .  Maybe you could find some of them on Youtube ..... but the understanding and applications of the moves seem lacking . You cant learn that properly without the dynamic interpersonal reactions of  real life practice . Instructor says I am the last in this country that knows and can do that .   When I am gone , it will be too .

 

 

[Taomeow]

37 minutes ago, Ocean Form said:

Are you saying they're not really trying to deveolp true AI, they're using technology as an "uplink" to some strange consciousness?

 

That's what I've heard.  I don't know whether it's true.  But this, coupled with a few other strange phenomena that have to do with modifications to the human DNA and -- aggressively -- immune system, would explain everything that's otherwise completely incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't just "believe" it's all done in "our" service and has "our" best interest at heart.   

[silent thunder]

Machine Elves anyone?

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

I'm reminded of the accounts of Socrates and his rants on the evils of the reliance upon the written word?  Reading weakens minds.  Keeping things stored in books... pfft.  This will cause the rot of the active mind...

 

 

My wife and I have been together over 30 years now... and it's fascinating when we begin to diverge on our memories of long ago happenings, or of recent ones...

 

 

I recall in my acting days, 80's and 90's, I memorized not just my lines... but the entire show, often without trying, just through the repetition and having my mind in that state of memory and recollection so regularly.

 

Then six months later, running into one of the actors from the show @ an audition... and while I could still recite their soliloquy from Act 2, somehow their name.... uhhhhhh... hmm... .

 

 

Memory and our relationship to it is fascinating.  Particularly in how depending on the mood one is in when retelling a tale, will bring up different details from it.

 

 

True . yet in the past (and the recent past in Australia ) such 'stories' ( songs actually ) , regardless of any perceived  variation, enabled people to travel vast distances, through previously unvisited country  successfully - also consider the country ; vast tracks of bush, swamps and desert with little water supplied . And during initiation test 'walkabout' , on your own .  Make a mistake and you are cactus .

 

We have mostly lost the art of memory . 

 

 

 Giulio Camillo’s Theatre of Memory (1519-1544)

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

...

 

Neanderthals, incidentally, may have been considered before us.  Looks like they flatly refused to cooperate -- they had bigger brains and thought clearer than we ever did from the get-go -- so the stone axe they were using didn't change its design for a million years. 

 

 

 

Neanderthals lived between about 130,000 and 40,000 years ago.

 

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

 

I want to repeat this.  They used a tool which they didn't redesign for a million years

 

I want to repeat this ;

 

Neanderthals lived between about 130,000 and 40,000 years ago,

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

-- that's how a smart species says no to the advent of "progress."  How did they know?  Smart, intuitive, insightful, refused to be fooled?  And, yes, they were wiped out eventually (no natural causes involved -- there's never been a neanderthal skull found that wasn't bashed in) but it's one of those "better die standing than live kneeling" scenarios methinks.  

 

 

 

 

" Bashed in "    ?    That;s an 'interesting' interpretation of the many things that can happen to a fossil !

 

Its nearly like you are suggesting  that 'someone' went around bashing in their skulls and wiping them out .... while they stood defiant against the development in stone axes .

 

 

{ and please dont respond  UNTIL  I get this gear on

 

 

 

 

      )

[liminal_luke]

Belated New Year´s Goal: Memorize a poem a week.

 

Maybe I´m naive but I think that somone who can recite many poems from memory is unlikely to be unknowingly implanted with a computer chip.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

So long as I don’t have to struggle to survive, I’m all for AI to do the bs work and I can focus on more human pursuits that require a consciousness  

 

BTW I am quite convinced that AI will never result in Self-aware consciousness. 

 

Not sure about that .   What is 'self aware consciousness ' and how do we know animals, plants do AI does not have it ?