A lot of you are deluded

[alchemystical]

Yes, one of the things about the path is everyone walks at different speeds and those who accompanied us so far on the journey may not be equipped to come along for the rest of the ride. To me everything else in life is pretty much BS because of how inane it all seems now. Twee little socially sanctioned distractions from knowing thyself designed to keep you engaged in chasing a shiny trophy.

 

People are like 2D cutouts and even that is being generous in terms of their depth and the more I've walked the more of them I've left behind simply because we resonate so differently. In terms of what I've done, nothing fancy really. Some meditation. Tried a bit of Tai Chi but that didn't do it for me as much as the warm up Qi Gong did so I started trying out the free stuff on the net but I'm still very much a neophyte and still searching for a good all round powerful form that suits. There aren't many classes or teachers for this kind of stuff anywhere near me and the couple I've seen are aimed squarely at the "housewife waving her arms around so she can buy a calligraphy scroll that says "noodle soup" and gush to her friends how cultured she is" crowd so solo practitioner it is for now.

 

I definitely feel I've got an aptitude for this path though as it just clicks with my style in a phenomenal way.

 

Maybe you could help recommend a Qi Gong? Ideally I want something compact and I don't really gel with those forms that are like Tai Chi with a bunch of slow motion poses flowing one into the other. Tried a few of the Five Element ones on youtube and they were OK but nothing special. 18 Luohan is my day to day for the past few years but I feel the need for something "realer" because it feels diluted now, like something is missing from the teachings that are here in the west. Metaphorically speaking I'd say its like manually cranking an engine because you didn't know there is a starter motor in there which takes it all to another level.

 

Another thing that really does fascinate me that maybe you can shed some light on:

 

Why is it that doing one sequence of moves makes your body feel like it pulsating with energy like some kind of superfluid conduction is occurring but if you just randomly move your arms that effect doesn't occur? Feeling the chi like that is such a visceral experience and its really quite awesome as it gives you first hand proof that there be wisdom in those old scrolls, which may or may not say "noodle soup" when the shopkeeper told you it meant "power" (but then noodle soup does generate energy which is power so technically he wasn't lying).

Edited February 6, 2020 by alchemystical

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Yes, one of the things about the path is everyone walks at different speeds and those who accompanied us so far on the journey may not be equipped to come along for the rest of the ride. To me everything else in life is pretty much BS because of how inane it all seems now. Twee little socially sanctioned distractions from knowing thyself designed to keep you engaged in chasing a shiny trophy.

 

People are like 2D cutouts and even that is being generous in terms of their depth and the more I've walked the more of them I've left behind simply because we resonate so differently. In terms of what I've done, nothing fancy really. Some meditation. Tried a bit of Tai Chi but that didn't do it for me as much as the warm up Qi Gong did so I started trying out the free stuff on the net but I'm still very much a neophyte and still searching for a good all round powerful form that suits. There aren't many classes or teachers for this kind of stuff anywhere near me and the couple I've seen are aimed squarely at the "housewife waving her arms around so she can buy a calligraphy scroll that says "noodle soup" and gush to her friends how cultured she is" crowd so solo practitioner it is for now.

 

I definitely feel I've got an aptitude for this path though as it just clicks with my style in a phenomenal way.

 

Maybe you could help recommend a Qi Gong? Ideally I want something compact and I don't really gel with those forms that are like Tai Chi with a bunch of slow motion poses flowing one into the other. Tried a few of the Five Element ones on youtube and they were OK but nothing special. 18 Luohan is my day to day for the past few years but I feel the need for something "realer" because it feels diluted now, like something is missing from the teachings that are here in the west. Metaphorically speaking I'd say its like manually cranking an engine because you didn't know there is a starter motor in there which takes it all to another level.

 

Another thing that really does fascinate me that maybe you can shed some light on:

 

Why is it that doing one sequence of moves makes your body feel like it pulsating with energy like some kind of superfluid conduction is occurring but if you just randomly move your arms that effect doesn't occur? Feeling the chi like that is such a visceral experience and its really quite awesome as it gives you first hand proof that there be wisdom in those old scrolls, which may or may not say "noodle soup" when the shopkeeper told you it meant "power" (but then noodle soup does generate energy which is power so technically he wasn't lying).

How about we Skype sometime and I can make some recommendations? I personally mostly do Xin Yi martially and then qigong styles are part of a longer syllabus besides Flying Phoenix that are based on progressive opening of channels.

[Earl Grey]

6 hours ago, Rara said:

 

Oh sure, don't get me wrong. There is so much greatness in games, and I am currently slowly (very slowly) playing through the RE2 remake. But everything else comes first. For me, being self-employed, a musician and taiji guy certainly limits my time greatly, as I like to eat fresh and get my sleep in as well. I just found getting competitive in gaming was extra stress, whereas at uni, I'd happily take aiming for Tekken Lord over actual kung fu practice.

 

"Compartmentalize"...that's a great word to use.

 

But my point is, my life is healthier this way, rather than doing 9-5 then coming home, cracking beers open and playing for 4-5 hours and repeating the pattern.

 

Btw, with that music taste, you and I are going to have to hang at some point haha. I grew up on all that, but I run the risk of derailing this thread if I continue!

 

And ok, Twilight Link can stay. Although, Twilight is in fact the weakest Zelda game imo...or maybe M.M? Again, must....not...derail...

 

Yes, hang out--sounds great! I don't know where you live, but most of my English relatives came from Surrey and go back every now and then to see their grandparents. 

 

To stay on topic for music and for gaming--here are the PPJ links:

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, alchemystical said:

^ Yeah, thats a valid point. The issue with cultivation is its truly a solo sport and I'm surrounded by people that have the spiritual insight of a house brick. Part of my reason for signing up here I guess because speaking to them about it and they slap a Scooby Doo look on their face.

 

 

 

Its like the more I discover the more questions I have so the more I discover and so on...

 

 

Yep  ,    that's  'normal'   ;  

 

Its like the more I discover  ( exclamation point - the 'soldier' )  the more questions ( question mark - the hunchback ) I have so the more I discover and so on...

 

"Expect seven misfortunes from the cripple, and forty-two from the one-eyed man; but when the hunchback comes, say 'Allah our aid.'"
ARAB PROVERB

 

THE SOLDIER AND THE HUNCHBACK:
! AND ?

The method is NOT  to continually go round in circles, chasing one's tail' but to learn a bit more each time * and rise in an ever-widening spiral .

 

* even being able to learn is a 'skill' .  

 

https://idriesshahfoundation.org/books/learning-how-to-learn

 

Spoiler

100 Conversations with Idries Shah Condensed from over three million words, these conversations involve housewives and cabinet ministers, professors and assembly-line workers, on the subject of how traditional psychology can illuminate current human, social and spiritual problems. More than a hundred tales and extracts from Sufi lore, ranging from the eighth century Hasan of Basra, to the modern Afghan poet Khalilullah Khalili, are woven into Shah’s narratives of how and why the Sufis learn, what they learn: and how spiritual understanding develops and deteriorates in all societies.

 

11 hours ago, alchemystical said:

 

 

 

 

whilst most folks are oh so content running the wheel, watching reality TV and gossiping like schoolgirls about whatever the internet tells them is hot at the moment and spending what little money they have on things they don't need to impress people they don't forget to like, comment and subscribe! Rinse and repeat.

 

Try and speak on the metaphysics of being, nature of reality, ways of expanding your consciousness and the underlying fabric of stuff or any of the other laser beam shooting iridescent thoughts that run through my awareness in each moment and you can literally watch their brains start to melt as its so far out of their paradigm. Not only that but you can actively see them shutting down, like they're trying to get to the end of their life and be able to advertise parts for sale:

 

1 Brain. Barely used, never raced, rallied or modified. As new condition.

 

 

Like I said, I really don't get it. We're all born with innumerable gifts, just as standard equipment and because they're free most choose to ignore them and to even think of developing them is anathema to the "coolness" of collective ignorance whereas my raging curiosity has questions and seeks answers whilst wanting to share my adventures but people don't remember how to play the old fashioned way.

 

I got so sick of  'mundane  social environment ' that I searched, found and joined a  'deep thought' group in a nearby town .

 

My GOD they where a bunch of crazy  MFs .  One woman , on the first night goes ; " I knew this town was right for me after  ' the 2012'  and a UFO landed on my roof ."  another  put in a pre-empt censorship " I will NOT tolerate anyone calling me a conspiracy nut, after I say  what I have to say . "  The leader  then asked me to stay back and felt to explain  to me how she had to be exorcised of 27 alien reptilian entities .

 

I am being effen serious here  .

 

Its about AWARENESS  , some are born with a good potential  level of it  - some not .  Some managed to develop it , to a level, in some areas - others not .  Some have a balanced level of it to various degrees .   Some seem entirely uncapale of it .

 

If you have not seen this before, you should probably read it ;

 

http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/

[Maddie]

According to the Buddha the reason all of us are in Samsara is because of delusion, so then we all are. 

[silent thunder]

Take care what you allow yourself to think, ruminate on, read, talk about, watch and listen to...  this is your experience of reality.

[Maddie]

15 hours ago, ऋषि said:

 

What part of the Pali Canon are you referring to here?

All through out it constantly.

 

The word is avijja and is one of the most commonly used words and topics in the Pali Canon.

Edited February 8, 2020 by dmattwads

[alchemystical]

The spate of angry/venting threads that have popped up in the past few really do prove the premise that motivated this one because sooooo many people are all up in their feels about something and generally it seems that no one really likes anyone. Not only that but they can't even tolerate them.

 

For a guy who claims none of the fancy shit you lot roll around in and doesn't have billions of posts it really does make me look sideways at so much of what you say because anyone with even an iota of real spiritual development simply does not act this way which is what I meant about a lot of you being deluded.

 

Genuine cultivation to me is like a ʘ with the dot being your actual and circle being potential with the aim being to make the dot fill the circle, equally. What I see here is some thin slivers shooting off the dot here and there, some reaching the edge, others dwindling and loads of parts just left flat and undeveloped which reflects in the behaviour. Just my metaphor like its just my perspective, you can agree or disagree and it doesn't matter to me because my intent is to help you along the way.

 

By and large I'm not a forum kind of guy, heck I'm not even much of a social kind of guy because most people are cuntmuscles but I must say I really did expect more from this place based on its rep as I thought I might've finally found a place with some wise folks to speak about things that interest. One thing though, I really do appreciate the honesty thats been displayed whether intentionally or not so thank you for that.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, alchemystical said:

For a guy who claims none of the fancy shit you lot roll around in and doesn't have billions of posts it really does make me look sideways at so much of what you say because anyone with even an iota of real spiritual development simply does not act this way which is what I meant about a lot of you being deluded.

 

There's a big difference between being a cultivator and being a saint. A cultivator often becomes sincere and authentic, and most of the time, the emotional imbalances are connected to energetic and biological imbalances like too much hot or too much cold, or yang and yin, much like hormones can make people grouchy and horny. Most of the time, nobody is restrained because they're above it, they just don't give a damn. Cultivating doesn't make you a saint, it makes you authentic with your anger, libido, all of that, but it also lets you understand cause and effect a lot more. 

 

5 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

The spate of angry/venting threads that have popped up in the past few really do prove the premise that motivated this one because sooooo many people are all up in their feels about something and generally it seems that no one really likes anyone. Not only that but they can't even tolerate them.

 

You're new here, so what you're witnessing is a lot of stuff that has erupted after a history of repression here that allowed a lot of vitriol that built up with a lot of the Alt-Right here who were posting nonsense like Pizzagate and had a huge support for Trump/Brexit and unsurprisingly were tied up with the current cult leader here who is a sexual predator. They were using their cult paradigm and energetic manipulation to prey on and molest victims while scamming them, then using their platitudes to justify their actions, while also being in power to ban and censor people here, or allow scams and abhorrent behavior to continue. It ended mostly last summer, but we are still in a series of catharsis waves. Cultivators know that it isn't always an up and up progress, but can go up and down, grow slowly, or even dip a lot before rising steadily. 

 

It isn't that nobody likes anyone--there are extreme personalities here who have all seen a huge shift and that shift has also brought in new norms that we are still adjusting to and trying to create some semblance of balance--it's a rebalancing act.

 

9 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

Genuine cultivation to me is like a ʘ with the dot being your actual and circle being potential with the aim being to make the dot fill the circle, equally. What I see here is some thin slivers shooting off the dot here and there, some reaching the edge, others dwindling and loads of parts just left flat and undeveloped which reflects in the behaviour. Just my metaphor like its just my perspective, you can agree or disagree and it doesn't matter to me because my intent is to help you along the way.

 

As I don't know what your system of practice is or how long you've done it and how deep you are in with your understanding, I can't comment on it, but based on your above question and having not answered mine earlier, I can only infer that you're still relatively fresh and have dabbled a lot at least.

 

10 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

By and large I'm not a forum kind of guy, heck I'm not even much of a social kind of guy because most people are cuntmuscles but I must say I really did expect more from this place based on its rep as I thought I might've finally found a place with some wise folks to speak about things that interest. One thing though, I really do appreciate the honesty thats been displayed whether intentionally or not so thank you for that.

 

Keep your standards high and expectations low is what I always say. Remember timing is also a key consideration. You sound like someone anywhere between his early-20s to early-30s based on the disillusionment and cynicism, which is understandable if so. There are also astrological reasons individually and globally at play according to some frameworks I am familiar with, so that is a point to consider if you do. 

[idiot_stimpy]

I admit I am deluded. So please go easy on me.

[SirPalomides]

5 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

There's a big difference between being a cultivator and being a saint. A cultivator often becomes sincere and authentic, and most of the time, the emotional imbalances are connected to energetic and biological imbalances like too much hot or too much cold, or yang and yin, much like hormones can make people grouchy and horny. Most of the time, nobody is restrained because they're above it, they just don't give a damn. Cultivating doesn't make you a saint, it makes you authentic with your anger, libido, all of that, but it also lets you understand cause and effect a lot more. 

 

 

 

I guess there are different kinds of cultivation. Virtues like humaneness and righteousness have to be cultivated like anything else. I accept though that people can develop impressive abilities without cultivating those virtues. I would argue that humaneness, or virtues like Laozi's three treasures, are still more important. Someone who can fly but who still gets bent out of shape over insults, or thrives on praise, hasn't gotten very far IMO. As for me, I can neither fly nor respond to insults and praise with equanimity, so I have plenty to work on.

[Earl Grey]

3 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

 

I guess there are different kinds of cultivation. Virtues like humaneness and righteousness have to be cultivated like anything else. I accept though that people can develop impressive abilities without cultivating those virtues. I would argue that humaneness, or virtues like Laozi's three treasures, are still more important. Someone who can fly but who still gets bent out of shape over insults, or thrives on praise, hasn't gotten very far IMO. As for me, I can neither fly nor respond to insults and praise with equanimity, so I have plenty to work on.

 

Yes, those are actually the best--the siddhis come as mixed blessings, at least to show fruits of your practice but also show how much are you using it to help evolve or to feed the ego?

[alchemystical]

All valid points but its still interesting that from the perspective of an outsider looking in the primary state of play is immaturity across the board. If you look at comment sections on youtube, social media, other forums etc.. you see very similar dynamics at play and whilst its acceptable there due to the nature of the great unwashed that congregate maybe I expected more from people that are on the way and so should have deeper insight into themselves, others and how to facilitate the best style of communication?

 

I've got no doubt that a few of you might know a thing or two about a thing or two and maybe had I signed up at a different time I'd have seen different sides as my first impressions but I'm here now and this is how I see it. Anyway, I'm done with this topic because I don't feel there is anything else to be gained from it so unless someone posts something interesting I'll be reading other things and thanks for your replies.

[Earl Grey]

17 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

maybe I expected more from people that are on the way and so should have deeper insight into themselves, others and how to facilitate the best style of communication?

 

 

If you expected more, I am not sure how many in-person group you have had interactions with, but generally, most people here come from different levels of understanding, different systems, different nationalities, and different levels of grasping the English language, as well as different interests in coming here--many often for free and easy access to power. 

 

That should be the warning sign that this is a place ripe for conflict, but also where you can find a few diamonds amongst the shit. 

 

I come here for the diamonds. Sometimes the shit is too much. Other times, Buddha goes to hell because he is needed there to help others find a middle path out of it since he isn't needed in heaven. 

 

Again, I do not know what you practice or what your tradition is, so these are general comments in response to what you glean from the surface here as an outsider. 

[silent thunder]

Grateful for the discussion.

 

In life all about me, I find a similar dynamic playing out to the one Alchemystical is describing as his experience of the current atmosphere of the Bums. 

 

As Earl Grey describes, the intensity here and now is directly related to the recent figurative tearing the scab off and revealing of a wound that has remained rather hidden and unhealed for some time.  Infected even.  This reaction is natural and will subside.  I was, though aware of some deeply disturbing energetics over the last three years in particular, unaware of what was occuring, so much of this while unsurprising, has personally been very startling.  though I'm grateful... for when we don't know we're sick, we don't know to cultivate healing.

 

This dynamic has arisen before and will settle itself, in spite of the rancor, immaturity and rash reflexivism, there is underlying it, deep love, abiding admiration and remarkable hope.  The very vehemence is fueled by the surge of relief that in fact there may come resolution and balance is beginning to shift.

 

From my perspective, what Alchemystical describes does not seem to be a manifestation of The Dao Bums in particular, so much as it seems that Dao Bums is symptomatic of what is running through culture as a whole.  The Old Model is breaking down.  The new generations are rejecting it utterly and the shift is as deep as i've experienced in 50 years... the inertia is seemingly insurmountable at this time... which is good I say... shift arises from Dao... like a bellows.  Some things can't be parried, or defended... but like the tide shifting, we may pilot along the currents.  This whole event here at the Bums, timed with sean's hands off approach with no modding at all, allows energies to no longer be stifled and directed, but to play out to their natural balance.

 

I experience it as a call to police my own self.  Watch with more care, what I choose to read, ruminate and digest in mind.  As there is much about that is toxic, this is not wrong or bad, it's just how it is... and it's on me to wade into the bog, or skirt it.  Taoism has always resonated for me due to its reliance upon individual interacting with all that arises in nature.

 

It is, I find, as always... up to each of us, how and to what extent we participate in the co-arising conditions.

 

Listening with the intent, not to accept, or reject whatever arises... but listening spherically, with full presence... without often any need to respond (in spite of this rather verbose expulsion lol)...  But listening with presence, from an intent to connect and share space. 

 

But gosh, it's intense... The cognitive dissonance.  Increased reflexivity.  Intensifying and entrenching of held perspectives.  Decreased spherical awareness, particularly in listening.  Projection of individual agendas onto group dynamics.  Taking the universe personally.  Inability to read words, or engage a concept without instantly needing to either accept/promote, or disagree/reject it.

 

It's been a potent reminder that my experience of awareness is clearly not what reality is... it is my small facet of the gem... and time and again, the most direct method I've experienced for being able to have a healing effect on the world about me, is to work on that within my own process... and heal that.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by silent thunder

[CloudHands]

On 05/02/2020 at 12:34 PM, alchemystical said:

Do the rest of you see this and are too polite to mention it or do you just bung em on the ignore list and keep it moving?

 

Yes sometimes I disagree or just don't resonate with someone else, yes... and I could speak my mind, why don't do that every time the opportunity shows up ?

Tolerance ? Healthy doubt ? could take it as Inspiration ?

 

Generally frontal opposition end up in sterile fights, so I keep that for my friends !

[Toni]

On 05/02/2020 at 12:34 PM, alchemystical said:

Been here for a while now and read a few insights and replies from some posters and one thing that I've noticed again and again is that there is a hardcore contingent of folk who are severely deluded. They may choose different areas in which to weave their self illusion in an attempt to pull the wool over the readers eyes so they don't realize the wolf wears no clothing and bears no resemblance to Grandma anyway but the core of the matter is still the same.

 

Lying to themselves.

 

Lying about their insight. Abilities. Spiritual progression. Wisdom. Lack of ego....

 

That last one especially, ye gads sometimes you can almost feel the false self image dripping from the screen as you read their often verbose posts. Which leads me onto another thing, the waffle waffle waffle mentality - why use one word when 3000 will do and then usually talking in circles as they attempt to emulate a Yoda stuffed with psychedelic truffles and instead come across like R2D2 having a seizure.

 

WTF people?

 

Do the rest of you see this and are too polite to mention it or do you just bung em on the ignore list and keep it moving?

I absolutely agree with you. Many people on this forum are highly deluded, but I would say more. They lack intelligence and an independent personality, they are absolutely unable to think for themselves, just following the social wave. Their ability to think in an original responsible way is null, so they need to resort to high levels of delusion to imagine themselves as sages and skilful, believing they have a lot to teach you.

 

And they believe anything they are told uncritically in a childish way, no matter how stupid it is. The media utterly controls their impotent minds.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Toni

[silent thunder]

Well... at least you're not bitter about it.

[forestofclarity]

I know exactly how deluded everyone is. The more they disagree with me, the more deluded they are. 

[silent thunder]

6 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

I know exactly how deluded everyone is. The more they disagree with me, the more deluded they are. 

That is precisely the quality that makes me the perfect juror on any trial.

[doc benway]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:49 AM, Toni said:

I absolutely agree with you. Many people on this forum are highly deluded, but I would say more. They lack intelligence and an independent personality, they are absolutely unable to think for themselves, just following the social wave. Their ability to think in an original responsible way is null, so they need to resort to high levels of delusion to imagine themselves as sages and skilful, believing they have a lot to teach you.

 

And they believe anything they are told uncritically in a childish way, no matter how stupid it is. The media utterly controls their impotent minds.

 

Kumbaya

[Toni]

4 hours ago, steve said:

 

Such a demonstration of power to insult strangers in a digital forum. A little like farting in an elevator. I hope it’s gratifying or empowering for you somehow. To me it makes you look small and insecure, and ugly. Try empathy sometimes. Everyone is doing the best they are able in unprecedented circumstances. A little support and respect for those you disagree with is a sign of strength, of humanity, a sign of effective and mature cultivation. Belittling others simply because they don’t share your opinions only impresses you… 

 

It is true that my tone may not be the most correct, but in such an unprecedented times as you put it maybe it would be better for you to try to understand what I am saying

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Toni said:

It is true that my tone may not be the most correct, but in such an unprecedented times as you put it maybe it would be better for you to try to understand what I am saying

Not long ago, I had mutual antagonism with some people in the forum during the Wild West period, and then with the mods after they reinforced rules before they let me know that using this place is a privilege that can be taken away at their discretion.

 

You might want to listen as though Jacob Marley were talking to you and re-evaluate your communication skills...or you can just keep doing what you’re doing and see what that gets you.

[zerostao]

had to give + 1 for Jacob Marley.

 

@Toni

is there a reason that you are not posting in the Current Events section?

I fully support your right to voice your opinion and share your perspective. 

The Current Events section was created specifically for these types of discussions.

I stand with @idiot_stimpy

knowing full well or is it fool well?? regardless, I know I harbor delusions.

 

I'd like to see the conversations concerning covid and/or politics continue in the ppf's or Current Events.

 

 

. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by zerostao

[Michael Sternbach]

Well, I would say that we all are both deluded and enlightened to varying degrees...