Can anybody scan my chakras please?

[Bindi]

6 minutes ago, ralis said:

That is a human idea. I am referring to the structure of the cosmos which we are a part of. One must go beyond anthropocentric constructs. Took me years to understand.

For me it’s anthropocentric constructs that effectively describe what I perceive as I make my way through duality, to wherever that leads. I see things not so much in terms of the structure of the cosmos as the structure of my subtle body, where that fits into the cosmos I have as yet no clue. 

[ralis]

7 minutes ago, Bindi said:

For me it’s anthropocentric constructs that effectively describe what I perceive as I make my way through duality, to wherever that leads. I see things not so much in terms of the structure of the cosmos as the structure of my subtle body, where that fits into the cosmos I have as yet no clue. 

We are not separate in any way. How do you know a subtle body exists?

[gendao]

32 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Interesting. I would equate male/female with the channels on either side of the central channel and above and below as heaven/earth. They appear to be two very different dimensions to be working with to me, something along the lines of pre-heaven and post-heaven. 

Yea, I was also wondering if that Yang/Heaven/Masculine & Yin/Earth/Feminine construct was true?

24 minutes ago, ralis said:

That is a human idea. I am referring to the structure of the cosmos which we are a part of. One must go beyond anthropocentric constructs. Took me years to understand.

Well, anthropomorphic gender may be a physical expression of these primal archetypal forces, not vice-versa.

I've personally had an encounter with the Sacred Feminine already...and it indeed had no discernible "feminine" or "gendered" aspects to it whatsoever.  It did in fact seem totally androgynous, more like just a pure presence/force of Nature.  However, "Sacred Feminine" are exactly the words that popped into my mind when I experienced it, for whatever reason.  And yes, it was the living, energetic substrate underneath all life on this planet...Gaia, so to speak.  So, that seemed to confirm one half of the ancient construct.

But I'm still not sure about the other half, though...?

Edited February 9, 2020 by gendao

[Nungali]

46 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Interesting. I would equate male/female with the channels on either side of the central channel and above and below as heaven/earth. They appear to be two very different dimensions to be working with to me, something along the lines of pre-heaven and post-heaven. 

 

Yes, I agree.

[Nungali]

38 minutes ago, ralis said:

That is a human idea. I am referring to the structure of the cosmos which we are a part of. One must go beyond anthropocentric constructs. Took me years to understand.

 

yes, I agree .

[Nungali]

Some science fiction story I read as a youth ; the theme was , if an alien race had pathogenesis  would they have developed concepts of Gods and Goddesses ?  ... or even a 'creator' .

Edited February 9, 2020 by Nungali

[Earl Grey]

13 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Some science fiction story I read as a youth ; the theme was , if an alien race had pathogenesis  would they have developed concepts of Gods and Goddesses ?  ... or even a 'creator' .

I recall that one but can’t remember the title. Want to read it because i never got to finish it.

[Bindi]

36 minutes ago, ralis said:

We are not separate in any way. How do you know a subtle body exists?

My mother is able to ‘see’, both the subtle body and into the physical like x-ray sight, and in working closely with her I have built up a picture of my subtle body as it develops. She is not a daoist, yet a lot of what she sees is remarkably similar to Neidan, hence my presence on this forum. 
 

For more than two decades I was working on emotional and mental obstructions in the male/female channels, recently this new dimension has come into view, the upper and the lower, more impersonal than male/female, but still describable. 
 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Bindi

[Cleansox]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Scientists check 'heart energy '  now  ?

 

 

 

 

Nothing like some scientific facts to set things straight    

In the most modern iteration: HeartMath. 

And if you have practiced your Google Scholar Gong you will find 3-4 articles from the 90-ties: Electrostatic jolts, magnetic measurement around the hand (low quality if I remember right), magnetic measurement around the head, and possible a general magnetic measurement. 

There were also reports of infrasounds, but not as actual articles (as in doctors and scientists present, but no cigar). 

 

[Bindi]

5 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

In the most modern iteration: HeartMath. 

And if you have practiced your Google Scholar Gong you will find 3-4 articles from the 90-ties: Electrostatic jolts, magnetic measurement around the hand (low quality if I remember right), magnetic measurement around the head, and possible a general magnetic measurement. 

There were also reports of infrasounds, but not as actual articles (as in doctors and scientists present, but no cigar). 

 

I have read that HeartMath is a bit light on in actual scientific measurement.

[Cleansox]

1 minute ago, Bindi said:

I have read that HeartMath is a bit light on in actual scientific measurement.

I think they focus on HRV biofeedback, which is in abundance right now. 

But I don’t read much of their work, I prefer sources that have less financial interest in the subject. 

I am not sure if they actually measure magnetic fields from the heart or if they just like images of torus fields centering on the heart. 

[ralis]

36 minutes ago, Bindi said:

My mother is able to ‘see’, both the subtle body and into the physical like x-ray sight, and in working closely with her I have built up a picture of my subtle body as it develops. She is not a daoist, yet a lot of what she sees is remarkably similar to Neidan, hence my presence on this forum. 
 

For more than two decades I was working on emotional and mental obstructions in the male/female channels, recently this new dimension has come into view, the upper and the lower, more impersonal than male/female, but still describable. 
 

 

 

 

 

Fine. But, seeing is one thing, and can you alter the construct you believe is real and concrete? Can you let go of the perceived construct and then.............

[Nungali]

36 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

In the most modern iteration: HeartMath. 

And if you have practiced your Google Scholar Gong you will find 3-4 articles from the 90-ties: Electrostatic jolts, magnetic measurement around the hand (low quality if I remember right), magnetic measurement around the head, and possible a general magnetic measurement. 

There were also reports of infrasounds, but not as actual articles (as in doctors and scientists present, but no cigar). 

 

 

Are you claiming that these measurements  can be measured from the heart  and 'masters'  have more than 'lay ' people ?

 

Because that's the CONTEXT .

 

regarding electric measurements 'around' the hand  ..... you should see what I can do to a    e-meter    

 

Oh sorry  , you said     "  Electrostatic jolts "  e-meters show electrical resistance     .   You also suggest I  use my  "  Google Scholar Gong  "   ,  okay then

 

" There are many examples of electrostatic phenomena, from those as simple as the attraction of the plastic wrap to one's hand after it is removed from a package to the apparently spontaneous explosion of grain silos, "  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatics

 

So  :   3-4 articles from the 90-ties ...  show that our hands have 'electrostatic' energy  . Okay then .

 

Parts of the human body have a magnetic field , maybe all of it ?    Well, not surprising since it is a bio-electric organism   and e and m are interchangeable .

 

Not only that ,  some  people retain  a magnetic  sensing ability , that allowed the indigenous to navigate .

 

“If we don’t have it, we would need to explain why we lost it. . . . What we’re saying in this particular paper is we haven’t lost it.”

—Joseph Kirschvink, Caltech

 

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/can-humans-sense-the-magnetic-field--65611

 

Some aboriginals can actually see it - ever wondered why their 'landscapes' / 'maps' look the way they do ? 

 

 

 

 

More google fu skills :

 

Question: Is HeartMath’s founder Doc Childre a doctor?

Answer: No. Doc is his actual name, passed on to him from his father. Doc is a self-educated researcher and author

 

 

 

' No ... I am  not 'a Doctor' , my parents named me Doctor .  Nick is my second name "

Edited February 9, 2020 by Nungali

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

 

Fine. But, seeing is one thing, and can you alter the construct you believe is real and concrete? Can you let go of the perceived construct and then.............

the subtle body is not actually just a mental construct. intention builds it by directing natural internal energies, but once built it then exists on a subtle level, and the energies it produces can interact with the material world. 
 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Bindi

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Are you claiming that these measurements  can be measured from the heart

I did not claim to remember that any of the articles measured from the heart, HeartMath speak about that but I haven't gone through their material. 

Quote

  and 'masters'  have more than 'lay ' people ?

 

Because that's the CONTEXT .

Yes, at least two of these articles had qigong masters in them, one explicitly mentioned in the article and one coming out of the closet years after the article was published. 

That would place them within context, except from perhaps a recollection bias from Starjumper about the heart. I haven't gone back and checked his exact formulation, so some here might be slightly out of context. 

 

I find modern medical research more interesting, and more useful for the average practitioner. I plan to get a ppd activated and do a thread about this. With references for you that enjoy those. 

 

The physiology behind heart rate variability and baro receptor sensitivity has an immediate use, as does how gastric rythms entrain functional networks in the brain responsible for, among other things, body awareness. 

 

The whole "qigong masters are the greatest" area is less useful, at least to me. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[ilumairen]

20 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

I wasn't aware.

 

That's interesting now. Would you mind sharing your experience of being prayed upon?

 

I was initially disinclined to respond to this, as this, and the next quote from the same post indicate you are not seeing or hearing me as much as you're lumping all "Jeff detractors" together and believing us to be one symbiotic unit speaking with one voice. This is common with the group, and an easy way to dismiss any individual voice or negate anything offered which runs contrary to the group view.

 

This being said, I personally would not have used the phrase "preyed upon" - preferring the more direct (imo) interacted with in a manipulative and deceptive manner.

 

This started with the very first PM sent to me by Jeff, to question and correct what he set forth as my view, based upon the addition of a word I never typed in the post he wrote me about.

 

I had written something about being human, and he wrote to correct me on being "only" human. I would link the post at this point, but it is in a pitted thread we no longer have access to.

 

I was clear with him about what I saw as "twistiness" from the get go, and this is where my dominant issue with Jeff sits - the manipulations. There were several I brought to his attention during our time of interacting only to have them "explained away."

 

He, and his group, love to write things off as subconscious or underlying issues of whoever's discontent with him, and have a tendency to go at discontents hard - instead of offering any support to the issues either created or deepened through his manipulative interactions. 

 

While I was there Tom actively recruited troubled individuals with offers of help - just as Lori described in the previously deleted post. And he actively expressed anger with me for not bringing people to Jeff. Recruitment is expected, and another had offered Jeff's "help" to me (which I didn't act upon) prior to Jeff himself messaging me.

 

20 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

Feel free to post your problems with him but saying it's all illusory is not that true. Or saying it's DANGEROUS, I want clarification being involved myself.

 

The illusion is Jeff's power and the woven narrative...

 

One day a younger person I had some affinity with was troubled, and at one point (pursuant to the practices then) I told him if he would like he could wrap my energy around him like a comforting blanket. Jeff arrived as the interaction was playing out, and asked if the young man felt any difference in my energy and Jeff's. The response was initially yes, and upon further questioning it became clear he only said yes because he thought it was the answer wanted..

 

I spent some time considering this.. the individual only needed some sense of support, and what arose for him was a manifestation of his own "power" which he was (prior to our interaction) not connecting with. 

 

Jeff, the human battery pack, is (imo) through his own (and the group shared) narrative crafting and creating dependencies which elevate him, using what should be placed back on the individuals empowering them. 

 

Haven't you ever wondered why the "powerful" and "good" stuff is all about him, and the "weak" and "bad" is all placed on the individuals?

 

There is also one more thing I've seriously considered, and this has to do with wind disorders, and how someone could utilize (a misunderstanding of) them to manipulate people to some misguided sense of the "outside" parties power..

[Pilgrim]

0

Edited November 12, 2020 by Pilgrim

[ilumairen]

One day while leading a dive, in which I was focusing on the vision is mind line from the fivefold teachings of Dawa Gyaltsen, the dog started whimpering at the door. He had to pee.

 

Now generally, I focused on some meditation while doing the group practice, but I understood that generally participants at this time just got on with their lives, so, I got up to let the dog out. He managed to escape his harness in his desire to chase chickens once he'd relieved himself, and I ended up having to tackle him to prevent him from running across the road to the neighbor's house with the chickens. 

 

When I returned to the computer and practice someone had written "good clean flows."

 

I shared the experience with the dog, and the individual who had shared the flows comment started talking about a very emotional correlative experience from their past.

 

The good clean flows were karmic winds imo, and not any indication of my strength or skill. The conditions were simply ripe.. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by ilumairen

[Pilgrim]

0

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Pilgrim

[ilumairen]

Next item for consideration, the blonde as initially Jeff's construct - eventually becoming something of a group egregore. And it's mundane corollary in regards to the manipulation inspiring some "visions" and "versions" of her and narcissistic supply..

 

As stated earlier, I can map the interactions through both spiritual and mundane paradigms. And they don't (in spite of what Jeff alluded to) negate each other, but are simply different ways of understanding/expressing experience. 

 

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, ilumairen said:

I can map the interactions through both spiritual and mundane paradigms. And they don't... negate each other, but are simply different ways of understanding/expressing experience.

 

Hi ilumairen,

 

I follow your posts on this thread and I can identify with them comfortably from an experiential perspective.

 

I am more into feelings than words but your choice of words is enlightening... e.g. paradigms, experience...

 

 

Feelings always evolve. No one size (or word) fits all feelings. Living is for learning/feeling forward.

 

My paradigm re this thread has moved forward from/through your sharing here.

 

Thank you.

 

- Anand

[Pilgrim]

Hi Anand, how ya doing bro? Glad to see you 😁

[Jonesboy]

18 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

Quote

He, and his group, love to write things off as subconscious or underlying issues of whoever's discontent with him, and have a tendency to go at discontents hard - instead of offering any support to the issues either created or deepened through his manipulative interactions

 

It's called attachments. Pretty basic spirituality.

 

We don't go after anyone. I have gone after one person because they accused me and others of astral rape which you KNOW is not true. They had a dream and then wanted to blame it on us. Then went on to attack us for years. There are tons of threads here at the bums with people attacking us and we rarely answer back. Has anyone went after you? Mentioned your actions and the effects your practices have had on others even after being warned? Nope. You attack and we don't say a thing.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Quote

While I was there Tom actively recruited troubled individuals with offers of help - just as Lori described in the previously deleted post. And he actively expressed anger with me for not bringing people to Jeff. Recruitment is expected, and another had offered Jeff's "help" to me (which I didn't act upon) prior to Jeff himself messaging me

 

 

Nobody is expected to recruit anyone. I have never asked anyone to recruit people. I have never, ever been mad at you for not recruiting anyone. If i remember correctly you were upset with me because my posts at the bums would wake you up. That even when I was right in a debate about Rigpa I should have just stopped instead of debating others. You were upset that I lead dives and didn't give you and others more of an opportunity to lead them.

 

You can be upset with Jeff all you want but you don't have to lie and make up stuff.

 

Also, yes I do believe Jeff, I and others can help people. I have seen it to many times to doubt it. Offering help is not a bad thing. You don't have to stay, you don't have to accept. Maybe you try it and it is not your thing. 

 

18 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Quote

 

The illusion is Jeff's power and the woven narrative...

 

One day a younger person I had some affinity with was troubled, and at one point (pursuant to the practices then) I told him if he would like he could wrap my energy around him like a comforting blanket. Jeff arrived as the interaction was playing out, and asked if the young man felt any difference in my energy and Jeff's. The response was initially yes, and upon further questioning it became clear he only said yes because he thought it was the answer wanted..

 

 

No other explanation? No other reason possibility beyond what you think was going on? You really think it is all about power? You are just assuming but never asked? Maybe it was about the other person and had nothing to do with you? 

 

Also, thank you for the blanket method. I use it all the time.

 

 

18 hours ago, ilumairen said:

I spent some time considering this.. the individual only needed some sense of support, and what arose for him was a manifestation of his own "power" which he was (prior to our interaction) not connecting with. 

 

Jeff, the human battery pack, is (imo) through his own (and the group shared) narrative crafting and creating dependencies which elevate him, using what should be placed back on the individuals empowering them. 

 

Haven't you ever wondered why the "powerful" and "good" stuff is all about him, and the "weak" and "bad" is all placed on the individuals?

 

There is also one more thing I've seriously considered, and this has to do with wind disorders, and how someone could utilize (a misunderstanding of) them to manipulate people to some misguided sense of the "outside" parties power..

 

Clear your obstructions and realize the clarity underneath it all. I have never heard Jeff or anyone at PW use the term weak or that someone is bad. I have also never heard Jeff use the term powerful as a reference to himself when working with someone.

 

Again, no need to respond. I won't be checking back for an answer. I just thought I would add a little perspective.

[ralis]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

 

It's called attachments. Pretty basic spirituality.

 

We don't go after anyone. I have gone after one person because they accused me and others of astral rape which you KNOW is not true. They had a dream and then wanted to blame it on us. Then went on to attack us for years. There are tons of threads here at the bums with people attacking us and we rarely answer back. Has anyone went after you? Mentioned your actions and the effects your practices have had on others even after being warned? Nope. You attack and we don't say a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody is expected to recruit anyone. I have never asked anyone to recruit people. I have never, ever been mad at you for not recruiting anyone. If i remember correctly you were upset with me because my posts at the bums would wake you up. That even when I was right in a debate about Rigpa I should have just stopped instead of debating others. You were upset that I lead dives and didn't give you and others more of an opportunity to lead them.

 

You can be upset with Jeff all you want but you don't have to lie and make up stuff.

 

Also, yes I do believe Jeff, I and others can help people. I have seen it to many times to doubt it. Offering help is not a bad thing. You don't have to stay, you don't have to accept. Maybe you try it and it is not your thing. 

 

 

No other explanation? No other reason possibility beyond what you think was going on? You really think it is all about power? You are just assuming but never asked? Maybe it was about the other person and had nothing to do with you? 

 

Also, thank you for the blanket method. I use it all the time.

 

 

 

Clear your obstructions and realize the clarity underneath it all. I have never heard Jeff or anyone at PW use the term weak or that someone is bad. I have also never heard Jeff use the term powerful as a reference to himself when working with someone.

 

Again, no need to respond. I won't be checking back for an answer. I just thought I would add a little perspective.

 

I am on ilumairen's side here! Again as she has so aptly pointed out is a classic blaming the victim game in which Jeff et al., which includes you, either psychologically, astrally or with so called energy work seek to manipulate others! If the recipient feels manipulated, has side effects, then it is the recipients fault and Jeff washes his/her hands of responsibility!

 

BTW, you were asked to leave this forum by Sean and never to return! Why? You are a right wing Trump supporter and AGW denier to name a few!

[gatito]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

 

It's called attachments. Pretty basic spirituality.

 

We don't go after anyone. I have gone after one person because they accused me and others of astral rape which you KNOW is not true. They had a dream and then wanted to blame it on us. Then went on to attack us for years. There are tons of threads here at the bums with people attacking us and we rarely answer back. Has anyone went after you? Mentioned your actions and the effects your practices have had on others even after being warned? Nope. You attack and we don't say a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody is expected to recruit anyone. I have never asked anyone to recruit people. I have never, ever been mad at you for not recruiting anyone. If i remember correctly you were upset with me because my posts at the bums would wake you up. That even when I was right in a debate about Rigpa I should have just stopped instead of debating others. You were upset that I lead dives and didn't give you and others more of an opportunity to lead them.

 

You can be upset with Jeff all you want but you don't have to lie and make up stuff.

 

Also, yes I do believe Jeff, I and others can help people. I have seen it to many times to doubt it. Offering help is not a bad thing. You don't have to stay, you don't have to accept. Maybe you try it and it is not your thing. 

 

 

No other explanation? No other reason possibility beyond what you think was going on? You really think it is all about power? You are just assuming but never asked? Maybe it was about the other person and had nothing to do with you? 

 

Also, thank you for the blanket method. I use it all the time.

 

 

 

Clear your obstructions and realize the clarity underneath it all. I have never heard Jeff or anyone at PW use the term weak or that someone is bad. I have also never heard Jeff use the term powerful as a reference to himself when working with someone.

 

Again, no need to respond. I won't be checking back for an answer. I just thought I would add a little perspective.

 

 

Now, does anyone still believe that @sean made a mistake by getting rid of the trailer trash?