Can we please drop the rancor and bickering?

[dwai]

I feel sad for the state of affairs off late. Maybe I’m a bit more sensitive this year — energetic shifts have been unfolding since November 2019. That aside,  there is a very polarizing power approaching us (has been for many years (15+) now — per my Master) — makes us want to ‘shore up the defenses and circle the wagons’ in a us vs them construct. 
 

Maybe things need to be worked through, maybe they don’t. Some wounds need to be cleaned before they can heal, some only get worse by being agitated. May each of us have the wisdom to discern and work  in the right way. 
 

I can only share my thoughts on the escalating animosity on the forum — it is not good, not healthy and especially if it becomes a long drawn and protracted one. 
 

 

[Earl Grey]

My own personal grief on this forum started under the old admin, and when they were removed and we descended into anarchy (rather than ascended into True Anarchy), a lot of it came out in a cathartic manner.

 

Let me say that the first conflict that arose here with me was when someone picked a fight when I was trying to build bridges, then two threads I started about individual members was because I was sick of them trolling threads. The most recent individual I have made personal peace with in my own heart, and don't mind him so long as he stays in his own lane. 

 

The current grief going on now has enough details in its thread and was a long-time coming, so I can't blame the responses.

 

Anyway, long-standing censorship and authoritarian repressiveness to preserve peace doesn't mean there is a harmonious society or strong and peaceful community, it just means that the guards in the prison have the guns pointed at you and are more than happy to off you and those whom you fight with so they can go back to their comfortable chairs and televisions eating pizza and wondering why the prisoners who get free meals and a bed are so unhappy together, which was the state of the former admin here. 

 

So while you ask for the bickering to stop, it's been there the whole time--people just weren't allowed to speak up. Eventually, some sort of order will hopefully come and I propose that we come together later to form an ad hoc self-governance in true Anarchic style while Sean is gone and no admin is here, which I will start another thread on later. 

[SirPalomides]

It seems to me there is some nonsense that has been allowed to go on too long and that is finally being confronted. So far there has been at least one good result with the (permanent?) departure of BSMaster. Charlatans need to be put on notice.
 

But yes, I do hope things will calm down soon and we can get back to discussing interesting things. 

[gatito]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

I feel sad for the state of affairs off late. Maybe I’m a bit more sensitive this year — energetic shifts have been unfolding since November 2019. That aside,  there is a very polarizing power approaching us (has been for many years (15+) now — per my Master) — makes us want to ‘shore up the defenses and circle the wagons’ in a us vs them construct. 
 

Maybe things need to be worked through, maybe they don’t. Some wounds need to be cleaned before they can heal, some only get worse by being agitated. May each of us have the wisdom to discern and work  in the right way. 
 

I can only share my thoughts on the escalating animosity on the forum — it is not good, not healthy and especially if it becomes a long drawn and protracted one. 
 

 

Just ignore it.

 

It's merely the Chaturbators reaping their whirlwind.

 

I'm sure it will settle back down soon.

 

[dwai]

14 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

My own personal grief on this forum started under the old admin, and when they were removed and we descended into anarchy (rather than ascended into True Anarchy), a lot of it came out in a cathartic manner.

yes there was a brief period of catharsis and then we truly descended into anarchy. 

Quote

 

Let me say that the first conflict that arose here with me was when someone picked a fight when I was trying to build bridges, then two threads I started about individual members was because I was sick of them trolling threads. The most recent individual I have made personal peace with in my own heart, and don't mind him so long as he stays in his own lane. 

I think that’s as much as we should expect on an Internet forum. I quite liked the old way of OP owning their post, so they could close conversations out or hide comments which derailed from their original intent. Maybe it could be revived. 

Quote

 

The current grief going on now has enough details in its thread and was a long-time coming, so I can't blame the responses.

I hope it runs its course and then there is healing sooner rather than later.

Quote

Anyway, long-standing censorship and authoritarian repressiveness to preserve peace doesn't mean there is a harmonious society or strong and peaceful community, it just means that the guards in the prison have the guns pointed at you and are more than happy to off you and those whom you fight with so they can go back to their comfortable chairs and televisions eating pizza and wondering why the prisoners who get free meals and a bed are so unhappy together, which was the state of the former admin here. 

I must admit that under Karen and siva, much autocracy had been unloaded on us lowly bums. But that’s done — time to let it go? 

Quote

 

So while you ask for the bickering to stop, it's been there the whole time--people just weren't allowed to speak up. Eventually, some sort of order will hopefully come and I propose that we come together later to form an ad hoc self-governance in true Anarchic style while Sean is gone and no admin is here, which I will start another thread on later. 

If we are in the laissez faire mode, we need to be equipped to ‘turn off the noise’. Not sure what the solution could be. 

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

yes there was a brief period of catharsis and then we truly descended into anarchy. 

I think that’s as much as we should expect on an Internet forum. I quite liked the old way of OP owning their post, so they could close conversations out or hide comments which derailed from their original intent. Maybe it could be revived. 

I hope it runs its course and then there is healing sooner rather than later.

I must admit that under Karen and siva, much autocracy had been unloaded on us lowly bums. But that’s done — time to let it go? 

If we are in the laissez faire mode, we need to be equipped to ‘turn off the noise’. Not sure what the solution could be. 

 

Later, I'll post a thread and call it "Town Hall Meeting" or something and would like to ask you to participate and help propose some ideas. We really need this since Sean is gone and there needs to be measures to deal with conflicts, spamming, trolling, threats, and other issues. 

[gatito]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

yes there was a brief period of catharsis and then we truly descended into anarchy. 

I think that’s as much as we should expect on an Internet forum. I quite liked the old way of OP owning their post, so they could close conversations out or hide comments which derailed from their original intent. Maybe it could be revived. 

I hope it runs its course and then there is healing sooner rather than later.

I must admit that under Karen and siva, much autocracy had been unloaded on us lowly bums. But that’s done — time to let it go? 

If we are in the laissez faire mode, we need to be equipped to ‘turn off the noise’. Not sure what the solution could be. 

 

 

As I said, just ignore it.

 

Think of it as a spiritual practice (i.e. ignoring it).

 

Perhaps that will help you to get over it yourself?

 

[dwai]

1 minute ago, gatito said:

 

As I said, just ignore it.

 

Think of it as a spiritual practice (i.e. ignoring it).

 

Perhaps that will help you to get over it yourself?

 

I don’t really think specific threads are the issue I was pointing at. I think the general tone & tenor of the forum has declined (imho). What used to be a source of quite deep (though often heated) discussions has now descended to name calling and ad hominem. 
 

 

[ralis]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

I feel sad for the state of affairs off late. Maybe I’m a bit more sensitive this year — energetic shifts have been unfolding since November 2019. That aside,  there is a very polarizing power approaching us (has been for many years (15+) now — per my Master) — makes us want to ‘shore up the defenses and circle the wagons’ in a us vs them construct. 
 

Maybe things need to be worked through, maybe they don’t. Some wounds need to be cleaned before they can heal, some only get worse by being agitated. May each of us have the wisdom to discern and work  in the right way. 
 

I can only share my thoughts on the escalating animosity on the forum — it is not good, not healthy and especially if it becomes a long drawn and protracted one. 
 

 

So called energetic shifts are just New Age BS.  

[gatito]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

I don’t really think specific threads are the issue I was pointing at. I think the general tone & tenor of the forum has declined (imho). What used to be a source of quite deep (though often heated) discussions has now descended to name calling and ad hominem. 
 

 

It was a lot worse before dawei and the rest of the Chaturbate team got the sack.

 

Things are just shaking themelves out.

 

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, gatito said:

As I said, just ignore it.

 

Think of it as a spiritual practice (i.e. ignoring it).

 

While a lot of nonsense is worth ignoring, if we have people spamming nonsense again and again like Drew has historically or other individuals and their particular interest that has nothing to do with the topic whether they be their own victimhood and conspiracies and the like, it gets very difficult to stay on topic and focus, and observers then have to deal with filtering out more in order to have an actual discussion.

 

An analogy I use often is sitting with  friends in a table and someone coming in and insulting them, or suddenly forcing and changing the topic to suit his own will like his own research on the San bushmen and climate change or his energetic prowess, not shutting up, and even with the ignore option, those who are non-members still have to suffer through it when not logged in, which in turn can allow misinformation as well. 

 

So ignoring for yourself is one thing, but that won't work too well for the safety of others at least, and it also normalizes unacceptable behavior.

 

We can have a longer discussion apropos in the forthcoming thread and I'd like to invite you and everyone else there later. 

[gatito]

14 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Later, I'll post a thread and call it "Town Hall Meeting" or something and would like to ask you to participate and help propose some ideas. We really need this since Sean is gone and there needs to be measures to deal with conflicts, spamming, trolling, threats, and other issues. 

 

Great.

 

Will it be like a lynching mob?

 

Spoiler

 

[gatito]

10 minutes ago, dwai said:

I don’t really think specific threads are the issue I was pointing at. I think the general tone & tenor of the forum has declined (imho). What used to be a source of quite deep (though often heated) discussions has now descended to name calling and ad hominem.

 

 

Like the MoPai pile-ons..?

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, gatito said:

 

Great.

 

Will it be like a lynching mob?

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Ha, I saw Van Helsing back when it came out, too. 

 

Anyway, no, it's not intended to be a lynching mob, it's a town hall meeting and civil discussion ideally. 

 

What we're doing to someone who deserved scrutiny in another thread, however, I completely stand by, but in this case for a town hall meeting, no. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Earl Grey

[gatito]

14 minutes ago, dwai said:

I don’t really think specific threads are the issue I was pointing at. I think the general tone & tenor of the forum has declined (imho). What used to be a source of quite deep (though often heated) discussions has now descended to name calling and ad hominem. 
 

 

Or do you mean like the certain individuals being targeted by other individuals threads..?

 

[gatito]

12 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Ha, I saw Van Helsing back when it came out, too. 

 

Anyway, no, it's not intended to be a lynching mob, it's a town hall meeting and civil discussion ideally. 

 

What we're doing to someone who deserved scrutiny in another thread, however, I completely stand by, but in this case for a town hall meeting, no. 

 

 

No.

 

You don't get to convene another of your pile-ons unchallenged.

 

If Sean wants to leave this forum unmoderated - it's his call.

 

If you don't like it or you cannot handle it, just leave yourself  instead of trying to kick other people out.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by gatito

[Earl Grey]

15 minutes ago, gatito said:

 

No.

 

You don't get to convene another of your pile-ons unchallenged.

 

If Sean wants to leave this forum unmoderated - it's his call.

 

If you don't like it or you cannot handle it, just leave yourself  instead of trying to kick other people out.

 

 

Who said I'm kicking other people out? 

 

You are.

 

Obviously there are exceptions to rules and norms, but you're weakening your own argument because while I can advocate for self-governance, you're basically saying everyone here can be scrutinized by a mob. 

 

A town hall meeting is a means of getting people come together so that they can think and reason, not get into heated diatribes.

 

By telling me to leave myself and saying I kick other people out, you are creating a strong man argument putting words in my mouth, and risk creating rancor and bickering in a thread asking to stop it. 

[Earl Grey]

@dwai here is the thread. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Earl Grey

[Starjumper]

6 hours ago, dwai said:

I feel sad for the state of affairs off late. Maybe I’m a bit more sensitive this year — energetic shifts have been unfolding since November 2019. That aside,  there is a very polarizing power approaching us (has been for many years (15+) now — per my Master) — makes us want to ‘shore up the defenses and circle the wagons’ in a us vs them construct. 
 

Maybe things need to be worked through, maybe they don’t. Some wounds need to be cleaned before they can heal, some only get worse by being agitated. May each of us have the wisdom to discern and work  in the right way. 
 

I can only share my thoughts on the escalating animosity on the forum — it is not good, not healthy and especially if it becomes a long drawn and protracted one. 

 

I don't see how this will get better any time soon, for several reasons.   One of the reasons is due to social engineering, which results in what I call the 'Great Stupidification and Infantilization.'  Part of 'the plan' is to increase immaturity in society as much as possible.  I know why it is being done, but that doesn't apply here.  Some of these things that I have noticed in society, due to my age, are things that others will likely label as conspiracy theory.  In fact the term conspiracy theory was created by the FBI as a pre-emptive strike to discredit those who have a good idea about what is going on, in the minds of the 'normals'.

 

There is another aspect, and that is the creation of division, which is part of the divide and conquer plan.  Society is being divided in every way possible, religious, gender, race, political, age, financial, and others I won't list right now.  In other words, the Immaturity, linked with divisiveness, and political correctness (another form of divisiveness designed to eliminate truth) all work together to create infantile strife in as many ways as possible.

 

Another aspect is that internet relations are all very yang.  There is only the written, mental, influence, unaltered by the yinning effect of eye to eye contact and body language.

 

Then, to make things worse, as it applies to this forum, there is no moderation, and a lot of the more mature, well grounded, people here were forced out or left in disgust recently, leaving a majority of immature, divisive, cry baby types.

 

In other words, as it stands now I don't think it will change or that appeals for maturity will have any effect.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

When I was in high school, my dad told me that education is equated with freedom, which should be self evident to mature people.  At that time the United States had the highest quality education system in the world, with the most literate population, which made me proud to be an American.  Ever since then, much to my dismay, I have witnessed the education quality in the US plummet downwards so that now the level of education (and freedom) is very low.  And yet the uneducated young people do not know it because they were born into it and born into a land of misinformation, in which they think they are so smart, that they know it all, and that they live in a great time.  They think that superficially, but the suicide rates tell a different story.  This is the background of the level of interaction we are seeing on this forum.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Starjumper

[gatito]

40 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Who said I'm kicking other people out? 

 

You are.

 

Obviously there are exceptions to rules and norms, but you're weakening your own argument because while I can advocate for self-governance, you're basically saying everyone here can be scrutinized by a mob. 

 

A town hall meeting is a means of getting people come together so that they can think and reason, not get into heated diatribes.

 

By telling me to leave myself and saying I kick other people out, you are creating a strong man argument putting words in my mouth, and risk creating rancor and bickering in a thread asking to stop it. 

 

Didn't you get @Everything banned?

 

What was your @gendao thread about?

 

Remember your own behaviour on the MoPai thread?

 

Perhaps start at home?

 

[liminal_luke]

I´m not sure there´s much to be done about the general tenor of the board.  Rancor and conflict is due to the personalities of those posting and there´s no way to control that.  I like what @ilumairen has done with her PPD and think it could be a model for those who want to have deep and productive conversation. She has created her own little mini forum under her purview. Bums could start conversations in their PPD´s, perhaps inviting in particular people knowledgable about the topic at hand.  The person who owned the PPD would have total moderating power to keep things rancor-free.

Edited February 9, 2020 by liminal_luke

[gatito]

Good idea Luke.

[gatito]

Problem solved.

 

Unless, of course, you're someone who can't let go of needing control...

 

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, gatito said:

 

Didn't you get @Everything banned?

 

What was your @gendao thread about?

 

Remember your own behaviour on the MoPai thread?

 

Perhaps start at home?

 

Replying only for posterity as you already had your challenge met by SirPalomides who showed what was possible for discussion.

 

The Everything thread didn’t get him banned, his behavior did in the Sumer thread, which you can see in the post from Sean.

 

The gendao thread wasn’t calling for a ban, it was asking what’s then point of having someone with abhorrent behavior here if it disrupts threads, and that ultimately was resolved on the thread itself after i left for a couple weeks by other members and privately out of public sight between gendao and me.

 

The Mo Pai thread I will own because I intended initially to try to bring harmony with the forum and WMP but for the explanation I gave multiple times, Jeremy wanted to drag out the conflict in spite of his fellow member from the WMP group saying to work with me because I could help achieve a better relationship for them here.

 

 I did my fair share of personal insults, but your hands aren’t clean either if we look at what you wrote in the thread calling Jeff out, justified or not.

 

 I do my work at home and this community is a virtual home too. This is why I speak for myself and for others who may share similar exhaustion.

 

I am also tired of conflict, hence my proposal. My past actions don’t diminish the importance just because you benefit from the chaos.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Earl Grey