doc benway Posted February 9, 2020 12 hours ago, gatito said: Sounds interesting. Very 12 hours ago, gatito said: Is it free? There are several practices. Different practitioners respond better to certain practices than others. Therefore, while there is a general outline of practices, there is a lot of flexibility. Basic abiding meditation practice is the most important on the dzogchen path. Other support practices include the ones I mentioned above from the Mother Tantra - dream, sleep, bardo, phowa, tummo. Yet others are related to 'lower' vehicles of Bön, such as practices with the 5 elements and soul retrieval. Some are available for free, others can be accessed online with payment, yet others are only available through direct instruction. 12 hours ago, gatito said: How many hours a week is it necessary to practice? It depends on the individual and what they are looking to get from the practices. I do formal practice 1-2 hours daily depending on my schedule. Informal practice is something we gradually integrate into our daily lives over time until life itself is the practice, non-stop. Some, like dream and sleep yoga, are practiced continuously throughout the day and night in a 24 hour cycle. 12 hours ago, gatito said: What's the end point? The end point is abiding in the nature of mind continuously throughout all aspects of life - dream, sleep, waking, and death; leading to an easier transition into death and liberation from the cycle of rebirth in the bardo or at least a favorable rebirth. 12 hours ago, gatito said: How long (on average) does it take to get to it? One lifetime, unlike tantric and sutric practices which are said to require multiple lifetimes. There are practices that have fixed endpoints such as phowa, transference of consciousness at the time of death. Similarly there are visionary practices (called thod gal) that are finite like dark retreat, sun gazing, and sky gazing. Dream and sleep practices are generally taken as a part of daily life with no specific endpoint. Formal and informal abiding practices (known as trek chöd) are also taken as a continuous part of daily life. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzan Posted February 9, 2020 So what I have gathered so far is Meditation, of which I am familiar with various different techniques. I have only achieved true meditation twice or where it felt like I was vibrating in a sea of blackness mixed with white lights, complete loss of all sense of time and my actual body. I also saw a mention of Bön which I will have to look into deeper. As far as anything religion related, that's not for me, until such a time there is sufficient evidence for a god or gods, I will not look at any religion as anything other than myths created in an attempt to explain unknown phenomena (at the time unknown). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted February 9, 2020 3 hours ago, MegaMind said: One of the reasons I love Mo Pai is that it is stripped bare from all the spiritual trappings and other nonsense like this. that don't work for me. Mo Pai puts things into very simple and unambiguous terms, explanations of what is happening are clear and simple. No symbolism and quasi-occult psycho-babble. or other things I find distracting. No silly mantras or rituals. Just simple, no non-sense explanations and exercises. Things don't have to be complicated and convoluted, sometimes they can be very simple to understand and grasp. For someone who doesn't seem to appreciate when people are critical of your path, you very consistently and intentionally denigrate the paths others have chosen. When we take our practice seriously and value it deeply, these criticisms hurt and lead to retaliation from some. It takes very little effort to show other practitioners who make different choices a modicum of respect. Doing so would lessen the confrontation you invariably generate here. Sure, some will criticize you no matter what, that is on them. But you also have a choice to make regarding how you treat others. I've modified your post as an illustrative example of how this could look... Your choice. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted February 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, ballzan said: So what I have gathered so far is Meditation, of which I am familiar with various different techniques. I have only achieved true meditation twice or where it felt like I was vibrating in a sea of blackness mixed with white lights, complete loss of all sense of time and my actual body. I also saw a mention of Bön which I will have to look into deeper. As far as anything religion related, that's not for me, until such a time there is sufficient evidence for a god or gods, I will not look at any religion as anything other than myths created in an attempt to explain unknown phenomena (at the time unknown). If you are interested in Bön, but not religion, you may want to check out Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. Some of his teachings are in a more traditional, religious vein but the majority have been stripped of religious connotation and content to be made accessible to more secular leaning Westerners, in particular. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzan Posted February 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, steve said: If you are interested in Bön, but not religion, you may want to check out Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. Some of his teachings are in a more traditional, religious vein but the majority have been stripped of religious connotation and content to be made accessible to more secular leaning Westerners, in particular. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy learning about religions and the various stories that go along with them, I just don't take them at anything more than myths and stories. Basically I don't want to actively have to be practicing a religion is what I was getting at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted February 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, ballzan said: Don't get me wrong, I enjoy learning about religions and the various stories that go along with them, I just don't take them at anything more than myths and stories. Basically I don't want to actively have to be practicing a religion is what I was getting at. Cool, thanks for the clarification. We all respond to different things and should use what works for us. On the other hand, I'm sometimes pleasantly surprised when I feel a connection to something I don't expect. Consequently, I try to be open to just about anything. Religion is a tricky one, however, and our relationship to it is deeply personal. I get that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MegaMind Posted February 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, steve said: For someone who doesn't seem to appreciate when people are critical of your path, you very consistently and intentionally denigrate the paths others have chosen. When we take our practice seriously and value it deeply, these criticisms hurt and lead to retaliation from some. It takes very little effort to show other practitioners who make different choices a modicum of respect. Doing so would lessen the confrontation you invariably generate here. Sure, some will criticize you no matter what, that is on them. But you also have a choice to make regarding how you treat others. I've modified your post as an illustrative example of how this could look... Your choice. I edited my post for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, MegaMind said: I edited my post for you. If you did it for me you missed my point entirely... Nevertheless, I do appreciate your response and actions. Thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
