What counts as Idolatry to you?

[JustARandomPanda]

I am curious as to what fellow DaoBums count as Idolatry. I was watching Tenak Talk on Youtube today from a (supposedly) famous Rabbi and am just flabbergasted at the level of ignorance he's portraying about Daoism, Hinduism and Buddhism. Especially when it comes to Yoga and Nei Gong work. All 3 of these 'religions' are steeped at their very root in idolatry according to Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism. The whole talk - to me at least - came across as a One-Upsmanship of how superior Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism is to all 3 of these "idolatrous" religions.

 

Judaism (and Christianity and Islam for that matter - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) seems to really have a robust time slinging the judgment "idolatry!" at anything not found or practiced in it's own tradition. This Rabbi even attacked Karate and other forms of Martial Arts that pair it with spiritual Daoist principles, etc as idolatrous. Not kidding on that. Karate, Kung Fu, Judo, etc came in for a long segment of attack because they all peddle 'witchy woo', 'pagan' idolatry from Daoism while one is learning those martial arts.

 

I've been following various Jewish channels on Youtube lately because I've always been of the belief by setting aside personal prejudices (not always successful but I try) I can discover new nuggets of wisdom that might not have come my way any other way. That's how I discovered The Cosmic Doctrine in fact.

 

But I'm beginning to (sadly) come to the conclusion a lot of current Orthodox Judaism (or at least the ones on Youtube) doesn't have many even partially realized teachers anymore. When I went in I understood being a Rabbi was because this person was a 'guru' or 'lama'. Someone who had at least a modicum of 'self-realization' (or G*d realization as Judaism puts it) from implementing Torah/Tenak (Tenak = scriptural + oral Torah ie scriptures + oral teachings handed down from a G*d-Realized Tzadik (aka Rishi) lineage) - but from what I can tell the tradition has waaaay too much emphasis on reading texts and debate and is stagnating there. Intellectual debate is so far the only 'fruit' I'm seeing the Orthodox tradition transmitting well. I'd place many of these Orthodox Rabbis I've been listening to of late on Youtube at the same self-realization level as the very same Christian and Islamic fundamentalists they criticize.

 

However, since Judaism is so fond of throwing the judgment "Idolatry!" around at any tradition not its own I've begun to wonder what exactly would other spiritual practitioners consider genuinely idolatrous.

Edited February 11, 2020 by JustARandomPanda
typos, some clarifying sentences

[silent thunder]

Hey Panda.  Strong question and observation.

 

Few traditions exemplify idolotry to me more than the Abrahamic.  Catholocism, Judaism and Islam really seem to have mastered it to the point they've lost awareness of it, in a similar manner I expect that fish are not aware of the water they swim in until pulled out of it... if ever.

 

I was raised Charismatic Lutheran, so we didn't idolize physical objects, but traits and ideas for the most part.

 

Anything it seems can be idolized, reified and worshipped... any phenomenological, physical thing as well as any noumenological mental thought, concept, or idea... can all be objectified, reified and worshipped or assaulted through the will of the one creating the worship.

 

At least this is the case with my own process.  One of my central processes has been the identification of this process and the cessation of it. 

 

it seems the one the media most loves in America, is what I call the hero worship / villain evisceration game.

 

Where we choose a person, build them up into a monumental hero object worship them to ridiculous levels of adoration, then when inevitably they do something we dislike, we reveal the real focus of the game... and relish the utter viscious dismemberment of them as villains.

 

In short, anything we obsess over, build up as sacred, defend through assumptions, feel we can't ask questions about and can't critique, any notions or objects that are 'beyond reproach'... all are examples of idolization. 

 

It seems to be a favored passtime of humans... with me at the forefront often enough.

Edited February 10, 2020 by silent thunder

[idiot_stimpy]

To answer your question for myself, esoterically, it's the worship of any object whether physical or mentally created.

 

When you take all objects out of the equation including mentally created objects, all that is left is yourself existing now. Some would call it the 'I AM' presence. 

 

[SirPalomides]

The critique of idolatry within the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic context can play a very useful, important role, as an apophatic discarding of fixations and falsehoods, akin to, say, the Buddhist critique of atman. Too often, unfortunately, it is employed in service of some other fixation. I have encountered Christian scholars who have a deep and sympathetic understanding of Buddhism, Hinduism, etc but they are quite rare. Within a Daoist or Buddhist perspective the concept idolatry is probably less congruent with the system as a whole, and native concepts of anatman, wu wei, etc. are better fits. Or from the Confucian tradition, this understanding of neither neglecting nor meddling with the sprouts:

 

Quote

Gongsun Chou asked, "What do you mean by ‘flood-like qi?’"

"It is hard to describe," said Mencius. "This is a qi that is as vast and firm as can be. If one nurtures it by means of straightforward action and never impairs it, then it will fill all between heaven and earth. It is a qi that is a companion to righteousness and the Dao. Without these, it will starve away. It is generated through the long accumulation of acts of right. It is not something that can be seized through a single righteous act. If in your actions there is any sense of inadequacy in your heart, it will starve away.

"This is why I say that Gaozi never really understood righteousness. He looked for it in external standards other than the heart. But your task must always be before you and you must not go making small adjustments. The task of nurturing this qi must never be forgotten by the heart, but you must not meddle and try to help it grow. Don’t be like the simpleton from the state of Song.

"There was a man of Song who was concerned that the sprouts in his field were not growing well, so he went and tugged at each one. He went home utterly exhausted and said, ‘Oh, I’ve made myself ill today! I’ve been out helping the sprouts to grow.’ His sons rushed out to look and found the stalks all shriveled up. There are few in the world who do not ‘help their sprouts grow.’ There are those who do not ‘weed’ – they have simply given the whole task up as useless. But the ones who tug on the sprouts to help them grow, they are worse than useless, for they do harm!"

 

[silent thunder]

29 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

To answer your question for myself, esoterically, it's the worship of any object whether physical or mentally created.

 

When you take all objects out of the equation including mentally created objects, all that is left is yourself existing now. Some would call it the 'I AM' presence. 

 

Well said.  You share much with few words.

 

The bolded really rang my bell.   For years I've been experiencing what you describe piercingly, unignorably and in the midst of an unsought but equally unignorable compulsion in cultivating release and doubt systemically.

 

the repeated realization is that the one thing that remains when all else is allowed to fall away.

 

i am

 

when absolutely everything is released that which remains for me is... awareness.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by silent thunder
clarify and accentuate

[silent thunder]

I'm rather fascinated to discover that lately, it seems most all of what I used to consider 'healthy reverence' for notions, concepts, teachings and at times teachers and practices/forms, has revealed to be idolization by 'the storyteller'.  The aspect of mind who tags along with all sensory and noumenal input and generates the story of life through them.

 

Particularly long held and for the most part, unquestioned certainties have revealed (sometimes very unpleasantly) as utterly vapourous mind stuff, inherently devoid of absolute meaning or truth, aside from that which is assigned them by local mind after 'registering in localized awareness'. 

 

 

[gendao]

2 hours ago, JustARandomPanda said:

Judaism (and Christianity and Islam for that matter - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) seems to really have a robust time slinging the judgment "idolatry!" at anything not found or practiced in it's own tradition.

No, it doesn't.  Pretty much everything coming out of early Mesopotamia were Anunnaki cargo cults brainwashing their followers to worship their oppressors...who were literally gold-digging space invaders.

Christianity, in particular, is their most viral, black magic, blood sacrifice, cannibalistic, Orwellian, obedience-training cult that controls primarily with lies, guilt, shame, and fear. Thus, it has killed probably nearly 100 million aboriginal heathens, Pagans, witches, and homosexual men over several centuries of the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and global colonialism. Not to mention plunged our planet into its 6th mass extinction after immediately deforesting every land upon arrival and gang-raping Mother Nature into a f'n coma.

Spoiler

This is after aboriginal heathens had stewarded their lands sustainably and carefully left them in pristine condition for at least 14,000 years before they were "saved" by Manifest Destiny and the Doctrine of Discovery...

Thing is, why did they care what other cults were doing if it didn't affect them?  So what if some other people wanted to "worship" effigies or idols?  Granted, it's pointless...but what business is it of theirs?

 

What you find is that while many other spiritual paths are have been very tolerant with them and others...Christians have never returned the favor and always launched a strong, ignorant offensive in return.  This is like a diverse group of kids playing nicely in the sandbox together...while the Christian gang rolls in with rusty shanks.  Even today, they are a totally insular echo chamber that aggressively cancels any outsider input.

Quote

I actually tried searching for a few Christian forums to spread the gospell...

 

It was an exercise in futility.  The top ones are all the definitions of cults - extremely insular, restrictive, intolerant, heavily modded with thought police, and closed to outsider input.

Quote

The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members.

In Worthy Christian Forums, you basically get blocked from posting once you get labeled a nonbeliever.

 

This is in stark contrast to non-Christian forums like this one, or Buddhist forums, which generally have generic TOS and welcome all traditions, if anything...

 

This is not cool.  While many spiritualities are playing nice and exercising tolerance, Christianity is nonreciprocally treating all others like the Plague.  It's like everyone else is playing by the rules..while Christians are flagrantly suckerpunching with low blows.

Spoiler

This is why I believe it is HIGH TIME to take off the gloves and stop idly watching them steamroll the planet into a red carpet for their Anunnaki overlords...

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by gendao

[dwai]

Hindus don't worship Idols. They worship Murthis. There is a huge difference -- when we consecrate a deity in a murthi, it is given life, literally via the ritual of consecration. The murthi becomes the living personification of the deity. 

 

This is an article written by a highly respected practitioner scholar friend whom I've known personally for almost two decades now. It does a very good job of explaining the process.

 

https://www.medhajournal.com/how-does-the-prana-prathistha-ritual-convert-a-lifeless-ritual-into-a-living-murthi/

 

The problem with non-dharmic traditions is that they don't do their homework and build strawman arguments to prove the 'greatness' of their tradition to themselves. It is not only intellectually dishonest, but also intellectually deficient. Dharmic traditions don't blindly follow any book -- ours is a lived, and experiential tradition.

 

That said, I've had very good experiences with rabbis from the Kaballah tradition. Apparently there is an entire group of rabbis whose job is to research and understand the various traditions of the world. They are not rabid doctrinaires, but erudite and intelligent practitioner-scholars. 

 

In my discussions with one such rabbi, who heads such a group in Israel, the only difference was that they (jewish tradition) don't consider the ability to merge fully with God or Self-realization per the Non-dual hindu traditions to be possible. They agree that we must all definitely be part of God, but we can never understand God/deny the God-nature of each sentient being (which is what Nondual hindus will say). In that sense, they are closer to the qualified nondualists/dualists of Hindu tradition.

Edited February 10, 2020 by dwai

[rideforever]

I was thinking today that all the strange gods of Hinduism with many heads and arms .. is idolatry, or a god other than your real self, a discomfort with what you are.  With Taoism there is a devotion to Tao ... a sort of abstract universal thing.

In Christianity there are no 8 arm gods.  There are only human beings, the walls and glass of the church is covered in images of human beings, fishermen,.mothers, nuns, soldiers, judicial figures.  People human beings.  This is a superior religion that reflects the divinity of human life, more or less.  It is a human religion rather than some channel to "the source".  I had a quick look at Father Ripperger's books on exorcism today and these guys are very serious. Christianity is barely known.  Going to church is the least of it, that is like the exoteric circle.  Within Christianity are many surprising secrets.

Buddhism is a powerful path but it is not very human, the Buddhists aren't very good dancers.  There are emptiness.  Because in India they smoked a lot of hash it is possible that they channelled a religion from a different world, from the Buddhist planet or something where people don't dance and don't have a sense of humour.

Not sure where Judaism is at at the moment but I did hear that most of the kibbutzes in Israel are now secular.  When Israel was formed they were very religious, but only about 5 out of 100 are still religious.
Krsna'ism might be more human centered because they worship the personality of godhead which I think means they worship a big person ... so it is not an abstract deity, and the stories of Krsna are of him dancing and playing on Earth.

No matter the disaster of organised society, I am certain that a world with no rules would become a worse primitive hell very quickly, and that there is no freedom other than the Way.  And that the chaotic world we live in is totally appropriate for a species as low down the ladder as we are.

Also I think that mankind has lost faith in itself.  It has lost contact with who it is.  And accustomed itself to being extremely negative like a big circle of people standing round and eagle and criticising it for flying.  After some time the eagle would be ashamed to fly.  That is what we are doing to each other.  But perhaps at the end our consciousness is just too low and we have to change that.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by rideforever

[JustARandomPanda]

39 minutes ago, dwai said:

The problem with non-dharmic traditions is that they don't do their homework and build strawman arguments to prove the 'greatness' of their tradition to themselves. It is not only intellectually dishonest, but also intellectually deficient. Dharmic traditions don't blindly follow any book -- ours is a lived, and experiential tradition.

 

I guess this is what I've been encountering on Youtube of late. I became interested upon discovering the "Star of David" is actually found inside every human body and is composed of chi meridians meeting in triangles at the heart chakra if one fasts long enough for all the vayus to have time to converge there. I kept mentioning that in one of the orthodox Judaic youtube chat streams only to get strong push back from other participants - to put it charitably. Was particularly surprised Orthodox Rabbis did not seem to know about the existence of these chi channel pathways inside their own body even from an Oral Tradition standpoint.

[JustARandomPanda]

50 minutes ago, dwai said:

Quote

That said, I've had very good experiences with rabbis from the Kaballah tradition. Apparently there is an entire group of rabbis whose job is to research and understand the various traditions of the world. They are not rabid doctrinaires, but erudite and intelligent practitioner-scholars. 

 

In my discussions with one such rabbi, who heads such a group in Israel, the only difference was that they (jewish tradition) don't consider the ability to merge fully with God or Self-realization per the Non-dual hindu traditions to be possible. They agree that we must all definitely be part of God, but we can never understand God/deny the God-nature of each sentient being (which is what Nondual hindus will say). In that sense, they are closer to the qualified nondualists/dualists of Hindu tradition.

 

 

 

I will have to see if I can find any of these more open-minded Kaballah rabbis. Sounds like they may actually have some real wisdom which is why they're hunting around for what other spiritual traditions say too.

 

Oh...and the teaching about how idolatrous Yoga is on Tenak Talk (along with what was said about various Martial Arts) was just...SMH.

Edited February 10, 2020 by JustARandomPanda

[thelerner]

As dwai found there are many Jews and rabbis involved in various meditative arts that are pretty open to studying other religions.  My temple which is reformed, part of the education of the kids was to field trip to Catholic cathedral to listen to priests, a mosque to learn from a imam, etc.,  My parents temple, like many sponsor quarterly interfaith dinners and lectures with all the religious centers around them. 

 

In the bronze age idolatry was real, lots of gods.. tribalism was everything.  You lost a battle and your tribe was gone, poof.  It happened alot.  These days the rabbis who label things like yoga or bowing during karate as idolatrous are really 'fundamentalists' trying to protect the youth from corrupting influence.  ie its not about idolatry, imo.  Just worry about the modern world corrupting or seducing members.

 

Those less fundamentalist are open to cross culture experience.  These days idolatry is more about over emphasis.  While realizing the divine in the ordinary world, don't worship stuff, or yourself, or your car.. 

[dwai]

48 minutes ago, thelerner said:

As dwai found there are many Jews and rabbis involved in various meditative arts that are pretty open to studying other religions.  My temple which is reformed, part of the education of the kids was to field trip to Catholic cathedral to listen to priests, a mosque to learn from a imam, etc.,  My parents temple, like many sponsor quarterly interfaith dinners and lectures with all the religious centers around them. 

 

In the bronze age idolatry was real, lots of gods.. tribalism was everything.  You lost a battle and your tribe was gone, poof.  It happened alot.  These days the rabbis who label things like yoga or bowing during karate as idolatrous are really 'fundamentalists' trying to protect the youth from corrupting influence.  ie its not about idolatry, imo.  Just worry about the modern world corrupting or seducing members.

 

Those less fundamentalist are open to cross culture experience.  These days idolatry is more about over emphasis.  While realizing the divine in the ordinary world, don't worship stuff, or yourself, or your car.. 

TBH I find the Jewish religion 

 to be least troublesome in the Abrahamic world. It is not an expansionist religion and while insular, there is a lot of depth to it metaphysically. 
 

The other two on the other hand, have wreaked much havoc through the ages, since they got politically weaponized. Their onslaught is still ongoing in places like India.

 

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

The other two on the other hand, have wreaked much havoc through the ages, since they got politically weaponized. Their onslaught is still ongoing in places like India.

 

 

And one, in particular, is exponentially gaining power in American politics.

It's frightening...

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, steve said:

 

And one, in particular, is exponentially gaining power in American politics.

It's frightening...

Indeed.

[SirPalomides]

To be fair, the form of Christianity popular in the US is a deeply deformed variety by any classic Christian standard. I know many Christians who regard it as straight-up Satanic.

[doc benway]

21 hours ago, JustARandomPanda said:

I am curious as to what fellow DaoBums count as Idolatry. I was watching Tenak Talk on Youtube today from a (supposedly) famous Rabbi and am just flabbergasted at the level of ignorance he's portraying about Daoism, Hinduism and Buddhism. Especially when it comes to Yoga and Nei Gong work. All 3 of these 'religions' are steeped at their very root in idolatry according to Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism. The whole talk - to me at least - came across as a One-Upsmanship of how superior Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism is to all 3 of these "idolatrous" religions.

 

Judaism (and Christianity and Islam for that matter - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) seems to really have a robust time slinging the judgment "idolatry!" at anything not found or practiced in it's own tradition. This Rabbi even attacked Karate and other forms of Martial Arts that pair it with spiritual Daoist principles, etc as idolatrous. Not kidding on that. Karate, Kung Fu, Judo, etc came in for a long segment of attack because they all peddle 'witchy woo', 'pagan' idolatry from Daoism while one is learning those martial arts.

 

I've been following various Jewish channels on Youtube lately because I've always been of the belief by setting aside personal prejudices (not always successful but I try) I can discover new nuggets of wisdom that might not have come my way any other way. That's how I discovered The Cosmic Doctrine in fact.

 

But I'm beginning to (sadly) come to the conclusion a lot of current Orthodox Judaism (or at least the ones on Youtube) doesn't have many even partially realized teachers anymore. When I went in I understood being a Rabbi was because this person was a 'guru' or 'lama'. Someone who had at least a modicum of 'self-realization' (or G*d realization as Judaism puts it) from implementing Torah/Tenak (Tenak = scriptural + oral Torah ie scriptures + oral teachings handed down from a G*d-Realized Tzadik (aka Rishi) lineage) - but from what I can tell the tradition has waaaay too much emphasis on reading texts and debate and is stagnating there. Intellectual debate is so far the only 'fruit' I'm seeing the Orthodox tradition transmitting well. I'd place many of these Orthodox Rabbis I've been listening to of late on Youtube at the same self-realization level as the very same Christian and Islamic fundamentalists they criticize.

 

However, since Judaism is so fond of throwing the judgment "Idolatry!" around at any tradition not its own I've begun to wonder what exactly would other spiritual practitioners consider genuinely idolatrous.

 

As mentioned by silent thunder, idolatry for me is to objectify the divine, to separate that from ourselves.

Ironically, we see this to a profound degree in Judaism as well as the other Abrahamic traditions. I have encountered some rabbis and students of Judaism who see more deeply but they are in the minority. There are certainly profound truths to be found but it requires a fair degree of discrimination and insight to tease it out of the pomp and circumstance, and out of the blind obedience. This is likely a big part of why Jews make up a disproportionate number of Western Buddhists.

[doc benway]

1 minute ago, SirPalomides said:

To be fair, the form of Christianity popular in the US is a deeply deformed variety by any classic Christian standard. I know many Christians who regard it as straight-up Satanic.

 

One of the reasons I didn't use the word Christian.

Christianity in American politics is the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus.

The God of the majority of American Christianity is green and made of paper...

[SirPalomides]

21 minutes ago, steve said:

 

One of the reasons I didn't use the word Christian.

Christianity in American politics is the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus.

The God of the majority of American Christianity is green and made of paper...

 

I call it "death squad theology" as it is also popular with various right-wing politicians and their paramilitary adjuncts throughout Latin America.

[JustARandomPanda]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

As mentioned by silent thunder, idolatry for me is to objectify the divine, to separate that from ourselves.

Ironically, we see this to a profound degree in Judaism as well as the other Abrahamic traditions. I have encountered some rabbis and students of Judaism who see more deeply but they are in the minority. There are certainly profound truths to be found but it requires a fair degree of discrimination and insight to tease it out of the pomp and circumstance, and out of the blind obedience. This is likely a big part of why Jews make up a disproportionate number of Western Buddhists.

 

 

You know...I had not considered that but if the state of current Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism (the supposedly self-proclaimed 'real Jewish Jews') is being fairly represented by what's found on the many ROJ channels on Youtube I am not surprised so many have left their birth-religion.

 

I don't know why I expected better from Judaism. The kind of ignorant attacks I saw against Yoga and the various Martial Arts...well I expect that from Islam and Christianity. Those two offshoots each have a well-deserved rep for being close-minded, angry and mis-characterization. I just thought Judaism - especially after all the hell it's been through in the past 100 years - would have learned a thing or two about the dangers of itself being that way. I was getting a bit angry but then the segment ranting about the various martial arts was so comical I started to laugh. The Martial Arts are riddled with "pagan idolatry" and "witchy woo" (Rabbi's words, not mine) - as is any kind of Yoga.

 

Circumnabulating a stupa is idolatry but circumnabulating a representative of the Torah scriptures is not? Bowing to a photo of a Roshi (ie Rishi guru in Japanese) is idolatry but bowing to a photo of a Tzadik is not?

 

Are there any Jews here reading this thread? I'd be very surprised if there are any Orthodox Jews reading this but surprises do happen sometimes. Assuming there is - what was (is?) your current experience of your 'native religion'? Is Idolatry still a "thing" of concern regularly taught or warned to the laity?

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by JustARandomPanda
cleaned up formatting of some sentences for easier reading

[alchemystical]

Religion is a mind virus.

[doc benway]

37 minutes ago, JustARandomPanda said:

 

 

You know...I had not considered that but if the state of current Rabbinic Orthodox Judaism (the supposedly self-proclaimed 'real Jewish Jews') is being fairly represented by what's found on the many ROJ channels on Youtube I am not surprised so many have left their birth-religion.

 

I don't know why I expected better from Judaism. The kind of ignorant attacks I saw against Yoga and the various Martial Arts...well I expect that from Islam and Christianity. Those two offshoots each have a well-deserved rep for being close-minded, angry and mis-characterization. I just thought Judaism - especially after all the hell it's been through in the past 100 years - would have learned a thing or two about the dangers of itself being that way. I was getting a bit angry but then the segment ranting about the various martial arts was so comical I started to laugh. The Martial Arts are riddled with "pagan idolatry" and "witchy woo" (Rabbi's words, not mine) - as is any kind of Yoga.

 

Circumnabulating a stupa is idolatry but circumnabulating a representative of the Torah scriptures is not? Bowing to a photo of a Roshi (ie Rishi guru in Japanese) is idolatry but bowing to a photo of a Tzadik is not?

 

Are there any Jews here reading this thread (I'd be very surprised if there are any Orthodox Jews reading this but surprises do happen sometimes)? Assuming there is - what was (is?) your current experience of your 'native religion'? Is Idolatry still a "thing" of concern regularly taught or warned to the laity?

 

 

 

I have a friend who is not orthodox and took a job teaching history at a Yeshiva university. They aggressively censored the subject matter he wanted to teach. He lasted one semester and left. I think there is a lot of fear of losing people from the faith to other traditions, fear of losing the purity of the teachings. There is an obsessive-compulsive tenor that runs through the orthodox community regarding just about everything but particularly regarding any transgressions against the laws, even unintentional. It’s unfortunately counter-productive and seems to lead to alienating more moderates.

[SirPalomides]

I remember hearing an interview with a guy who grew up in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in New York and his parents had named him Shalom or some variant of that. In class, his rabbi refused to pronounce his name, calling him "Name of the Creator," and any paper he wrote his name on had to be put in a special box to be ritually burnt later.

[thelerner]

19 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

I remember hearing an interview with a guy who grew up in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in New York and his parents had named him Shalom or some variant of that. In class, his rabbi refused to pronounce his name, calling him "Name of the Creator," and any paper he wrote his name on had to be put in a special box to be ritually burnt later.

Kinda like a Mexican kid named Jesus (Hesus or worst case Jehovah) walking into a southern baptist school.  Though worse, the Jewish kid must have had one the many many names for God thus not to be taken lightly but treated with a certain amount of awe.  I expect the school ended giving the kid a nickname.   

 

The group of Modern Orthodox (type of 'more' liberal orthodox) tend to straddle the olde ways and new pretty well.  Traditional Orthodox sects have there hang ups.  Like the Amish, there are rewards but also a fair share of oddities and twists getting along in the modern world. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by thelerner

[JustARandomPanda]

The Lerner...it sounds like your temple is more in line with what I was looking for. At least when it comes to actually putting the teachings into practice. And possibly more.

 

I originally became interested when I stumbled across Dion Fortune's The Cosmic Doctrine. Upon reading it so much of what it says matches things I've heard Sadhguru and other Hindu or Buddhist teachers discuss I am now convinced it's a legitimate western(!) tantric text in it's own right. I was so surprised. Dion Fortune gifted something by a higher Plane being as if she were an Tibetan acolyte and the book was a Tibetan terma. (I think terma is the right word).  Reading The Cosmic Doctrine gave me a deeper appreciation for Agastyamuni of all people! Now I see why Hatha Yoga is based on angles and poses and those angles and poses have deep cosmic law effects. I just never realized how deep until that Dion Fortune book. Agastyamuni based it on the principles The Cosmic Doctrine delves into at a deep level.

 

Well that piqued my curiosity. If a 1920s rather dowdy British lady is getting tantric texts from higher plane beings - what else is out there I don't know about? Hence my interest sparked in Judaism. Especially Orthodox since the claim was that those were the guys who keep to the old ways and do it best.

 

Don't have an Orthodox temple nearby so I checked out Youtube.

 

There's some interesting stuff but the Orthodox stuff I've watched doesn't seem to delve in the Kaballah at all. Perhaps most Rabbinic Orthodox consider the Kaballah heretical? In any case Kaballah is never discussed in the many channels I've been watching. I've never been upset by what I'd found though until the other day's Tenak Talk session.

Edited February 11, 2020 by JustARandomPanda